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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

gently caress lowtax.

http://blarg.introspect.net/uncategorized/139

Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jun 25, 2020

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

gently caress lowtax.

http://blarg.introspect.net/uncategorized/149

Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jun 25, 2020

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

gently caress lowtax here too.

You don't get to profit from the generosity of this community trying to give back to each other.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jun 25, 2020

Krakkles
May 5, 2003

like and subscribe for more passive-aggressive roadway bullshit adventure in Chigcao

... oh, you do.

e:

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006



Ok, perfect timing....Took my car into a local a/c specialist that does great work. My car (2012 xB) was taking an abnormally long time for the a/c to blow cold after it sat overnight. They checked it out and guess what....It needed FREON lol, but it hasn't completely solved the problem. It made a small difference in the time it takes to cool off, but it still takes at least five minutes before it blows cold air. So I'm assuming they saw it was low and figured that was the problem and did no other testing? What else could it possibly be? I really don't want to drop it off again to them but i guess i'm gonna have to to get to the bottom of it.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Applebees Appetizer posted:

Ok, perfect timing....Took my car into a local a/c specialist that does great work. My car (2012 xB) was taking an abnormally long time for the a/c to blow cold after it sat overnight. They checked it out and guess what....It needed FREON lol, but it hasn't completely solved the problem. It made a small difference in the time it takes to cool off, but it still takes at least five minutes before it blows cold air. So I'm assuming they saw it was low and figured that was the problem and did no other testing? What else could it possibly be? I really don't want to drop it off again to them but i guess i'm gonna have to to get to the bottom of it.

Systems very, very rarely just "run low", and overcharging can be as bad as undercharging. Proper fix would involve actually getting some gauges on it, doing some leak investigation, and probably performing a vacuum / recharge to verify that it's actually at the right charge level before going much further.

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006



I'm assuming that's what they did. And because the car had been running for awhile already it was probably blowing cold right away. The problem is when it sits for any length of time.

[e] I forgot to mention one of the valves was leaking so that's why it was low. They ran dye through the system and found the leak, fixed it and filled it up.

Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Apr 25, 2019

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

EVERYWHERE
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!



Hi thread. It's been over 2 years since I checked the air on the Escalade with the dual system. The air is working fine, but I think it's time to check the pressures. From what was said in the previous thread last time I brought it up, the lines going all the way to the back allow for some leakage over time?

Thelonious
Jul 15, 2005



I'd call it good if everything seems to be working fine. Throwing gauges on without good reason is a good way to waste a small bit of refrigerant or introduce contaminants needlessly.

But I'm just a dumb residential HVAC monkey who can get a pretty accurate idea of system performance just by checking some assorted temperature readings. Probably not as simple on a vehicle.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

EVERYWHERE
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!



Thelonious posted:

I'd call it good if everything seems to be working fine. Throwing gauges on without good reason is a good way to waste a small bit of refrigerant or introduce contaminants needlessly.

But I'm just a dumb residential HVAC monkey who can get a pretty accurate idea of system performance just by checking some assorted temperature readings. Probably not as simple on a vehicle.

Is it something you can talk me through on my home system? It's an almost 20 year old Trane A/C unit that I'm hoping to get one more year out of. I last had it checked about 4 years ago. I just cross my fingers every time it runs.

RIP Paul Walker
Feb 26, 2004



Put a thermometer in the vent when the AC is blowing.

I like this style because no batteries is nice: https://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-C...=gateway&sr=8-9

STR
May 12, 2006

I thought I was a nice jester


meatpimp posted:

From what was said in the previous thread last time I brought it up, the lines going all the way to the back allow for some leakage over time?

That's true for any flexible hoses for refrigerant. Your Escalade will leak more simply because it has more hose involved than most cars. Modern barrier hoses help (and I think most, if not all, R134a systems use it at least on the high side), but they still leak a little over time.

Something about the small molecules of R-134a... it's over my pay grade.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

High Energy, Good Feeling!




R-134a is always at pressure, and any pressurized system, except maybe a full-welded one will leak a wee bit over time, especially with a gas.

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008








Slippery Tilde

If want do DIY a compressor replacement, how do I figure out how much oil to put in? I'm getting conflicting information on the internets.

STR
May 12, 2006

I thought I was a nice jester


Did the old compressor lock up?

If so, you need the complete system oil capacity, since you'll be flushing all of the lines and replacing the condenser and evaporator. If you're replacing the compressor because, say, the clutch went out, or a seal on it went out, you should be able to look up how much oil you need for just a compressor replacement online (Autozone's website probably has the info).

New and reman compressors usually ship with enough oil for the complete system. You have to dump it out into a measuring cup and pour the right amount back in if you're not shotgunning the entire system.

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008








Slippery Tilde

STR posted:

Did the old compressor lock up?

If so, you need the complete system oil capacity, since you'll be flushing all of the lines and replacing the condenser and evaporator. If you're replacing the compressor because, say, the clutch went out, or a seal on it went out, you should be able to look up how much oil you need for just a compressor replacement online (Autozone's website probably has the info).

New and reman compressors usually ship with enough oil for the complete system. You have to dump it out into a measuring cup and pour the right amount back in if you're not shotgunning the entire system.

Thanks!
Yeqh just the clutch is bad but it's one where you can't replace the clutch and magnet.

e: do I need to add the amount for the dryer which I will be replacing as well obviously or is that factored in/negligible?

STR
May 12, 2006

I thought I was a nice jester


It may or may not be a decent amount of oil.

Got a or kitchen scale that can measure down to 0.1oz? Get 2 identical containers of some kind, place one on the scale, zero the scale, pour the oil out of the dryer into the container, note the weight. Swap the other container over, make sure the scale is reading 0 (if not, zero it again), and pour enough fresh oil into it to make it match. Add that weight to the "compressor replacement" oil capacity.

Or get 2 identical glasses, put em side by side, empty the dryer into one, pour fresh oil into the other, get them to match. Again, include the amount of oil as if the compressor is getting replaced.

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008








Slippery Tilde

Much obliged.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?


Hello Motronic I want you to know this is the best thread.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





With the new compressor you'll probably want to drain it of any new oil in it and measure that back into it. The new Denso that I put on my who few years ago for the same reason had way more oil in it than necessary for a not-dry system.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

IOwnCalculus posted:

With the new compressor you'll probably want to drain it of any new oil in it and measure that back into it. The new Denso that I put on my who few years ago for the same reason had way more oil in it than necessary for a not-dry system.

In fact in this case I'd probably just remove the old compressor, drain it to measure what's in there, drain the new one and replace with how much came out of the old one.

nitsuga
Dec 31, 2006

It's the only way to live.

Is there any harm in leaving an A/C system undercharged? Iím not sure I have a leak, but I think I might. Iím trying to figure out how much I should or shouldnít prioritize fixing that.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

nitsuga posted:

Is there any harm in leaving an A/C system undercharged? Iím not sure I have a leak, but I think I might. Iím trying to figure out how much I should or shouldnít prioritize fixing that.

If it has any pressure in it it's at least not completely open and getting water in it, so it's not too bad. If it's still running it's probably running like poo poo and icing up. That's more annoying than damaging.

nitsuga
Dec 31, 2006

It's the only way to live.

Motronic posted:

If it has any pressure in it it's at least not completely open and getting water in it, so it's not too bad. If it's still running it's probably running like poo poo and icing up. That's more annoying than damaging.

Thanks! I might call around a bit to see what it would cost to get diagnosed. This and the last thread have convinced me A/C is not my gig. Good to learn from, but like zero interest in opening it up.

STR
May 12, 2006

I thought I was a nice jester


A friend has a car that's been parked for almost 3 years. I know I'm already an idiot for considering this car just due to how long it's been sitting, but the price is right, he's offering to finance it for me, and it's an appliance car that's known for reliability.
edit as of next weekend I won't be driving for a living as my primary income anymore either, most days it'll just see 5-10 miles total instead of the 100+ I normally drive a day now. I'll be keeping my current car on standby until I'm sure the Corolla is out of maintenance debt and reliable.

The condenser is leaking. I'm not sure if it's held any pressure whatsoever, or if it's actually completely empty. He got a quote to repair it before he parked it, they said it needed a condenser. The lines still all hooked up, so it's not like it's completely open to atmosphere.

What are the chances that sitting for so long with a leak will have caused issues with the compressor or anything else (besides the dryer)? I intend to spin the compressor a few revolutions by hand to make sure it's not locked up or rough, also intend to try applying power to the clutch to make sure it locks (engine off though, I don't want it to see full speed while empty).

2004 Corolla, FWIW.

STR fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jun 1, 2019

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

I wouldn't give anything made out of rubber on that car more than a 50% chance of working past the first 2 weeks you drive it regularly.

RIP Paul Walker
Feb 26, 2004



I bought a car with an AC system that leaked all of its refrigerant out. My understanding is the oil mixes with the refrigerant during operation, does this also apply if it leaks out? Iím trying to figure out if I need to add oil, and if so, how much (entire quantity or just *some*).

I really donít want to yank the compressor to check itís oil level but Iíd rather do that than have an issue.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

RIP Paul Walker posted:

My understanding is the oil mixes with the refrigerant during operation, does this also apply if it leaks out?

Yes.

RIP Paul Walker posted:

Iím trying to figure out if I need to add oil, and if so, how much (entire quantity or just *some*).

Good luck. There is no way to tell how much leaked out. Fast leaks blow a whole lot out, slow leaks not so much.

If I were in your situation I'd figure out where the leak is first and see how bad it is. If it's very minor then add maybe 1/4 of the total oil volume. If it's a big leak......ehhhh...depends on how big. I'd add like 1/3 or more to "this hose literally explosively blew out" and everything changes if we're talking about collision damage taking out an evap....then I'd start with 1/3 for what was in the evap you had to take out and another 1/3 to account for what was carried out of the rest of the system. Which is probably slightly too much, but better a bit too much than too little.

The good thing is unless you go absolutely crazy overfilled oil won't hurt anything - it just slightly reduces system performance (less room for refrigerant). If you put way too much in it will slug the compressor. But playing the odds the system was probably filled at least somewhere around an appropriate level before the leak, so unless you have other information or suspicions I'd treat it that way.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jun 17, 2019

RIP Paul Walker
Feb 26, 2004



Thank you, thatís helpful. I donít think the leak was too big, it held vacuum for hours, only half gone overnight. That could also be the well-used HF gauges leaking, too.

It takes 7.25oz (1991 MR2, long hoses), I think Iíll put in 2-3 ounces with dye and see what happens.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Sounds like you're on the right track. Could be nothing more than natural seepage if your gauges/ports are leaky.

I don't suppose you can get your hands on some nitrogen to pressure test the system?

RIP Paul Walker
Feb 26, 2004



Motronic posted:

Sounds like you're on the right track. Could be nothing more than natural seepage if your gauges/ports are leaky.

I don't suppose you can get your hands on some nitrogen to pressure test the system?

No, your question made me do some reading tho. Iím going to take the gauges off after pulling a vacuum, see if it keeps overnight and if not... itís super tempting to use my smoke machine but I have no idea if the smoke will react in some sort of crazy way.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

If you can't find a leak just put in as little refrigerant as possible to allow it to run along with some dye. Run the system for a bit and it should be obvious with a black light where it's leaking.

Also, most ports won't hold vacuum since they're designed for pressure. When you take off the hoses the valve is just gonna suck in and fill the system partially or fully with air.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Crosspost from the Volvo thread, but my dads 2014 Volvo V70 has a problem when the A/C stops working intermittently when the temperatures get above ~28 degrees C, especially after being parked in the sun e.t.c. Going from shade / garage to highway driving is usually fine AFAIK. So stop and go traffic / parking in the sun = A/C shuts off. It comes on about 10-15 minutes later, and usually stays on but can shut off again even if driving at speed. The problem first arose last summer with the same symptoms, but has worked flawlessly and cools very well when temperatures got a bit lower. Engine is not overheating / reporting odd temperatures afaik, and the outside temperature sensor(s?) are working.

The consensus in the Volvo thread was that it probably isn't the A/C clutch on a car that new, but might instead be a pressure problem. I can't check pressures myself (unless it's OBD reported) since it hard to find the tools, and illegal to release pressure without proper equipment and certifications etc etc. I also don't have access to the car at the moment.

There are A/C "service/diagnostic" services that can be done where they check pressure, empty, test vacuum, refill, remove moisture etc etc (according to description), that I think I should get my dad to do. Like I wrote in the A/C thread, I'm driving the car to Berlin and just found out that it's gonna be 37-38 degrees those days...

Any ideas?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

MrOnBicycle posted:

There are A/C "service/diagnostic" services that can be done where they check pressure, empty, test vacuum, refill, remove moisture etc etc (according to description), that I think I should get my dad to do.

Yes, that's a basic AC service. And there's nothing you can do unless you can check pressures. So if you can't do that then bring it somewhere that can.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Motronic posted:

Yes, that's a basic AC service. And there's nothing you can do unless you can check pressures. So if you can't do that then bring it somewhere that can.

Could do some basic electrical testing to see if the computer is even calling for the clutch to engage, but yeah, anything other than that, you need to know system pressures.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Motronic posted:

Yes, that's a basic AC service. And there's nothing you can do unless you can check pressures. So if you can't do that then bring it somewhere that can.

Thanks, got him to try to book as service tomorrow. Best case, the service fixes it (maybe?), worst case they claim it has a massive leak and refuse to recharge it. Shouldn't be a possibility since it actually always works at lower temps, and cools like the day he got it (i.e very good)... right?

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Jaded Burnout posted:

It's a balmy 30ļC today and I think my AC is on the blink (in a 2004 UK Honda Civic) on account of it blowing hot air for the several minutes I could stand to wait for it to (not) cool down. My assumption is it needs a refrigerant refresh? It's a sudden development but I don't use the AC much after winter.

Is that a likely diagnosis, and is this a relatively simple task for a mechanic to do? I assume it's not something I should be trying myself on account of having to buy refrigerant and correctly dispose of the old stuff.

monsterzero posted:

Can you hear the compressor cycle on or off? It's usually pretty noticable on a Civic. If you pop the hood with the car running and AC off, then press the AC button you should hear a click, and the engine load (revs may dip momentarily and then go back up.)

Jaded Burnout posted:

I can hear stuff moving through the pipes as usual, which only happens when the AC is on. I'm assuming that means the compressor is running but I can test that next time I use the car; as you say it's very noticeable, in a "lights dim briefly" sort of way.

monsterzero posted:

Anyway, sudden no AC doesn't sound like a slow leak you could bandaid with a charge kit. You should head over to Motronic's thread and ask if you need more freeon.

So, I am here, for your sage wisdom. I only skimmed the OP because it was full of advice on how to do this on your own which I'm definitely not up to doing on account of it apparently being not only troublesome for dealing with the waste refrigerant but also extremely dangerous.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

MrOnBicycle posted:

Thanks, got him to try to book as service tomorrow. Best case, the service fixes it (maybe?), worst case they claim it has a massive leak and refuse to recharge it. Shouldn't be a possibility since it actually always works at lower temps, and cools like the day he got it (i.e very good)... right?

Update: A/C Dude said it was pointless to do an A/C service unless we wanted to waste $280 (which was nice of him) as the car was cooling down to 4 degrees from a single vent. He couldn't see anything immediatly wrong with the A/C while inspecting it, and didn't have much of an explanation to why it stops working when it's very hot outside.

A/C worked 95% of of the trip to Berlin, only giving out after 10 minutes after driving away from Berlin (where it sat for an hour in the sun while we loaded the stuff). I guess we should just leave well enough alone for now.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Jaded Burnout posted:

So, I am here, for your sage wisdom. I only skimmed the OP because it was full of advice on how to do this on your own which I'm definitely not up to doing on account of it apparently being not only troublesome for dealing with the waste refrigerant but also extremely dangerous.

Find a shop that does AC repair.......this sounds like you basically need to start with checking system pressures. Happy to help evaluate their diagnosis/quote, but like I'm sure I put in the OP: this almost always starts with needing a set of gauges to get anywhere into a diagnosis.

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

MrOnBicycle posted:

Update: A/C Dude said it was pointless to do an A/C service unless we wanted to waste $280 (which was nice of him) as the car was cooling down to 4 degrees from a single vent. He couldn't see anything immediatly wrong with the A/C while inspecting it, and didn't have much of an explanation to why it stops working when it's very hot outside.

A/C worked 95% of of the trip to Berlin, only giving out after 10 minutes after driving away from Berlin (where it sat for an hour in the sun while we loaded the stuff). I guess we should just leave well enough alone for now.

You should bring it to someone who can be arsed to at least check the static and running pressures.

I'm confused about "the car was cooling down to 4 degrees from a single vent" If by this you mean it was working properly as far as cooling, just not out of the right vents then you have a different issue that likely involves the blend doors or control panel.

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