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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

BonoMan posted:

Haha oh my God I know that smell. My kid drinks milk on the way to school every morning. And sometimes in the searing Mississippi heat I leave the cup in the car while I'm at work.

I come back to a solid cup shape block of cheese and my God the smell.... The smelllllll.

I know the smell too and it does in fact have the characteristics of a dead-body smelling clogged condensate drain. Glad this one worked out easier.......just leave those windows open for a few days.

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Krakkles
May 5, 2003

like and subscribe for more passive-aggressive roadway bullshit adventure in Chigcao

Am I correct in thinking that absolutely no cooling is probably low refrigerant (and a leak)?

I had to pick my daughter up in my Mustang today, and having no AC is not desirable.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002


Krakkles posted:

Am I correct in thinking that absolutely no cooling is probably low refrigerant (and a leak)?

I had to pick my daughter up in my Mustang today, and having no AC is not desirable.

Probably? Yes. Of course, it could be something worse, like a complete blockage.

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008








Slippery Tilde

Krakkles posted:

Am I correct in thinking that absolutely no cooling is probably low refrigerant (and a leak)?

I had to pick my daughter up in my Mustang today, and having no AC is not desirable.

I had an issue with the AC on a car a while back and the problem was a valve on the heater core. Idk about mustangs they might have a blend door. In any case it could be something else and you'd have to diagnose it.

Krakkles
May 5, 2003

like and subscribe for more passive-aggressive roadway bullshit adventure in Chigcao

The OP has thoroughly convinced me that I will die if I try to work on any of this, so off to find a mechanic. Thanks!

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist



Howdy thread, been a bit. My vent temps in the Crown Vic have been climbing the past few months but I put off hooking the gauges up; today it finally started short cycling, confirming my suspicions. Once i got home i checked the pressures; compressor cuts out when the low side gets to 20 psig, high side only reached about 105. Shut off the A/C and they quickly stabilized around 70. Ambient temperature is 70f but the engine bay was hotter, so static pressure should probably be higher, and it's *definitely* low on both sides while running. I'll double check in the morning when the engine's cool but it seems like textbook low refrigerant. it's an almost 13 year old car and the a/c worked perfectly from when i got it in April '17 until recently, so probably the usual normal leakage.

I may have a can of refrigerant floating around my toolbox somewhere, but this will hopefully be an easy fix regardless. Will report back tomorrow.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist



Double posting to bump: Added a full 12oz can plus the unknown remainder of another from my toolbox, let's call it 18 ounces (which was the total vacuumed calamity of my old MSP, this beast calls for 27). It did quit short cycling, still not as cold as I'd like tho, vent temps only down to 50 after sitting on MAX A/C for like 20 minutes.

By the end, running pressures were 30 psig low/205 high. Ambient temp was 82 F, engine bay was probably more like 85-90, so I'm gonna get another can tomorrow and try and bump those to more like 50/250.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Fender Anarchist posted:

I'm gonna get another can tomorrow and try and bump those to more like 50/250.

That sounds about right.

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

I hate to say this, I have this thread, I have the gauges...and I am just scared to crack open this Celsior (basically LS400) and have a go at it...this fear that I am going to screw it up or ruin the compressor or whatever...

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





I would imagine that the compressor is the same as US-market LS400s and is probably common as hell.

At any rate you'd have to try pretty hard to shove enough liquid in there to actually hurt the compressor.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

EVERYWHERE
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!



everdave posted:

I hate to say this, I have this thread, I have the gauges...and I am just scared to crack open this Celsior (basically LS400) and have a go at it...this fear that I am going to screw it up or ruin the compressor or whatever...


IOwnCalculus posted:

I would imagine that the compressor is the same as US-market LS400s and is probably common as hell.

At any rate you'd have to try pretty hard to shove enough liquid in there to actually hurt the compressor.

Yup. Hook up the gauges and see what they say. Then refer to Motronic's OP, because it's got all the info you need to do it correctly.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

2004 Volvo XC90 2.5T with rear AC option. There are two evaporators, the rear evaporator is above the driver's side rear wheel well along with the control module. It has a high pressure and low pressure line going to the AC hardware in the engine bay. Can the rear AC be removed without losing the refrigerant? Perhaps I could remove most of the equipment but leave the lines connected?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

As far as I know, nope. I mean - at least not the evap. You'd need to drain and plug to do that. But sure, remove the rest. Just remember the evap will still be getting cold unless the temp control in the car somehow allow you to reliably shut it "off", which probably isn't really off anyway, so make sure whatever the evap drains into and it's drain hose are still in place and clear.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

I'm not really sure how it shuts off, but there is an on/off button in the console (defaults off) and completely separate fan control. I'll see if it's getting cold. I feel like probably not or I would have accidentally noticed that the cargo wall was getting frosty since it sits right next to the interior trim.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

taqueso posted:

I'm not really sure how it shuts off, but there is an on/off button in the console (defaults off) and completely separate fan control. I'll see if it's getting cold. I feel like probably not or I would have accidentally noticed that the cargo wall was getting frosty since it sits right next to the interior trim.

Give it a shot, but I'm gonna guess "off" is just "fan off, (potentially) blend door closed". There's not a great way to just shut off parts of the wet works in an AC system due to design constraints. Even less likely in 2004 when variable displacement compressors weren't really a thing (or at least not common).

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist



So after my last recharge, the system worked for a couple days, then it sat; when i drove the car a week after the recharge, it was short cycling again. So I've got a proper leak somewhere. UV inspection didn't show any visible leaks, so afaict it's either the schrader valves or the evaporator. The ports were recently disturbed (), and i had this car for years without realizing the low side cap was missing, so it's possible it was normal leakage before but now there's some gunk in one or both ports causing a leak. The evaporator... is inside the dash so i hope to hell it's fine lmao.

Valve cores are cheap, so i just now finished vacuuming out the system, gonna let it sit for an hour or so to make sure it holds vacuum with the gauges attached, if all is well I'll swap em out real quick. Should be quick enough not to have an issue with humidity condensing in the system, right?

If it doesn't hold refrigerant after this... welp.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Fender Anarchist posted:

Valve cores are cheap, so i just now finished vacuuming out the system, gonna let it sit for an hour or so to make sure it holds vacuum with the gauges attached, if all is well I'll swap em out real quick. Should be quick enough not to have an issue with humidity condensing in the system, right?

Eh......I'd vac after swapping cores at least for a bit. If you're asking if it's good enough without changing the dryer - I'd be vacing even longer.

Fender Anarchist posted:

If it doesn't hold refrigerant after this... welp.

Get one of those $10 USB endoscopes that you hook up to your phone or a tablet and jam it on up where the evap lives.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist



I forgot those were a thing! And yeah I'm absolutely re vaccing, i just meant in terms of "i don't need/want to replace the accumulator/desiccant today"

e: if it becomes a longer job I'll absolutely swap it out ofc

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Fender Anarchist posted:

I forgot those were a thing! And yeah I'm absolutely re vaccing, i just meant in terms of "i don't need/want to replace the accumulator/desiccant today"

Oh yeah - for a job like that I wouldn't bother. I like to give it a final vac for like an hour just to be drat sure when I'm not changing the dryer. I've gotten away with that on a lot of things for a lot more years than I probably should have been able to - it seems to work fine.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist



Aaaand I've been stymied, i asked for "a Schrader valve kit" cause i assumed universal ports = universal internals, right? noooope. Guess it's parts store time again.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Quick Robin, to the Fatmobile!




Risking Motronic rage by not reading the whole thread in great detail before asking: If I have an R12 system is there likely an A/C tech out there who will check pressures and recharge it for me if I bring him the R12 refrigerant?

Also there's this very '90s website that is allegedly selling an R12-equivalent...

https://autorefrigerants.com/hydrocarbon-refrigerants

God help me.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





It's not like R12 is illegal to use or own or anything, it's just expensive and uncommon. If someone still has gear with the right fittings I don't see any reason why they'd turn down the work.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Quick Robin, to the Fatmobile!




Here's another one: how generic, aside from the compressor, are old '90s Isuzu ac systems? Across the same brand but also across all cars of that era. Like can you just replace bad lines and evap canisters with generic or pseudo generic parts? I'm importing a JDM Isuzu that has a diesel variant which never came to the US/Canada but the design is super similar to other Isuzu diesels that existed in the US in the '80s and '90s.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Conceptually, all A/C systems fall into the categories in the OP. Beyond that, it seems that a lot of the individual parts are fairly model specific because the manufacturer will play with hose lengths / tube positions to best fit whatever it's going into. What's really fun is when the manufacturer does something like a mid-generation split for the receiver/dryer but the aftermarket decides to just sell the early version because it's "close enough". loving Jeep.

With that said, custom hose assemblies are absolutely a thing that can be made by a competent shop. Worst case if you find a part that fits in most ways but doesn't have the same connectors, you get a hose fabbed up.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

French Canadian posted:

If I have an R12 system is there likely an A/C tech out there who will check pressures and recharge it for me if I bring him the R12 refrigerant?

So an actual AC shop probably will if you have that sort of thing near you, but your generic auto repair place probably has one or two big rear end Robinair machines, and those are refrigerant specific. So they may have gotten rid of their R12 one, or didn't bother fixing it the last time it broke. You'll probably have to call around.

Aeka 2.0
Nov 16, 2000

Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.






Dinosaur Gum

I'm replacing my lines with aftermarket and I removed the OEM ones without measuring any oil that came out of them. I also got a universal condenser that is slightly bigger as well.

The system was originally R12 and wasn't properly converted to 134, at the time I just put in a 134 substitute that was cool with running along R12 oils (so i think?) and its been working just fine for 10 years (only about 1k miles a year though). I didn't change any expansion valve either.

I assume I need to dump out and measure the oil that came with the condenser and replace it with a mineral oil of some kind? And then I have no clue how much to add for the new hoses, and then find what kind of refrigerant I was using, I think it was a propane of some kind.

I don't know if im going at this all wrong.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Dump the oil out of the condenser and the compressor and measure it. There shouldn't have been any real amount of oil in the lines.

Last one is the evap. Do you know if it's parallel flow or not? If not, you should flush through it and the remaining lines. If not, you should probably pull the evap and drain it (or replace it).

Total up the oil that came out. It should be real close to or a bit over what the factory fill says it should be - depending on how much bigger the condenser is and how much the filled it/how much oil was in the system before of course.

If it's not practical to get every last bit of oil out (and it often isn't) you can try one of the mineral/pag/ester "universal compatibility" type oil blends: https://www.amazon.com/Enviro-Safe-...e/dp/B008BLQ1JY

As I understand it they're not quite as good (read: miscible with your refrigerant) so you aren't getting the absolute best protection or cooling capacity, but it's a lot better than having an unmixed/colloid at best bunch of incompatible oil in there.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jan 1, 2020

Aeka 2.0
Nov 16, 2000

Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.






Dinosaur Gum

Thank you. Hmm removing the evap would need to be a super last resort as I fear breaking dash clips n things as interior parts on this car are fragile and expensive or plain not available anymore. (1993 RX7).

So since I know jack about a parallel evap and a serial, what makes one need to be replaced over the other? Could I drain it with shop air or will the valve laugh at my attempts?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Aeka 2.0 posted:

So since I know jack about a parallel evap and a serial, what makes one need to be replaced over the other? Could I drain it with shop air or will the valve laugh at my attempts?

The problem with parallel flow and flushing is that it never really flushes across the entire thing, because you have tanks on each side hooked up to all the the parallel heat exchangers:



It's not reasonable to get a consistent flow across all of them to truly flush it.

As opposed to the serpentine style, where you've got one and only one path through it:



Shop air isn't going to help for flushing. You need to use an actual flush kit and solvent (see the OP).

Aeka 2.0
Nov 16, 2000

Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.






Dinosaur Gum

Ahh I misunderstood, I got what you were saying backwards. So looking at pictures online i can see that it is parallel. Replacements are 600 dollars so I'll pull it and drain it. I found that it can be pulled through the glove box.

RIP Paul Walker
Feb 26, 2004




Be careful with this stuff. I'm sure the op says this too, but it is *nasty* poo poo. Almost certainly the nastiest chemical I have in my shop.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

RIP Paul Walker posted:

Be careful with this stuff. I'm sure the op says this too, but it is *nasty* poo poo. Almost certainly the nastiest chemical I have in my shop.

Always worth calling out. It is probably the second nastiest thing I have in my shop, but only because I have a can of methylethyldeathkeytone.

http://www.crmpinc.com/wp-content/u...ush-Solvent.pdf

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

MEK is real bad stuff? Interesting. When I was working in Turkey they were basically mopping everything with it with no PPE. They also used straw instead of teflon tape, so . The boss on my crew was an old dude who seemed to think MEK was safe and fine to apply with bare hands lol.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





MEK is pretty much the one time I've seen my dad make a real attempt at PPE.

I'll just stick with having no reason to even purchase the poo poo.

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008








Slippery Tilde

taqueso posted:

MEK is real bad stuff? Interesting. When I was working in Turkey they were basically mopping everything with it with no PPE. They also used straw instead of teflon tape, so . The boss on my crew was an old dude who seemed to think MEK was safe and fine to apply with bare hands lol.

I've been to Turkey and I didn't get the impression that workplace safety is the primary concern there.

PitViper
May 25, 2003

Welcome and thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart!
I love you!


MEK was probably the only material we used in my college Composites course that would get you immediately removed for mishandling, so I've always had an inclination to avoid it whenever possible. (Or was that MEKP? It's been 12 years since that class)

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.

Grimey Drawer

I've wiped shop floors clean with a rag and MEK, no gloves or other PPE. 60+ yo teacher vs 15 yo me, I didn't know enough to protest really (and not enough to not mouth off and get the poo poo job in the first place).

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Nidhg00670000 posted:

I've wiped shop floors clean with a rag and MEK, no gloves or other PPE. 60+ yo teacher vs 15 yo me, I didn't know enough to protest really (and not enough to not mouth off and get the poo poo job in the first place).

Eh, we haven't really known how bad a lot of this poo poo was until relatively recently and that hasn't made it down through people's awareness.

It's not like you were drinking drano, but in the right circumstances or prolonged exposure (or exposure to mucus membranes/cuts/scabs, if you already have compromised breathing) it's some bad poo poo, way worst than most poo poo you'd be using. It's also something that really permeates your lungs as a vapor, and it has super high vapor pressure. So if it's makes a solution with something that's bad to have in your body and you're anywhere near it it's basically pumping that poo poo right into your bloodstream through your lungs. That's probably the WORST part about it - it's not nearly as nasty in pure form.

Also lol at wiping a floor down. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. The fire marshal is gonna love that report.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.


Top Cop

Hello AC thread.

I have a 1985 Toyota Corolla II, aka a second-generation Toyota Tercel in most places that aren't Japan. It came equipped with factory AC that's identical to US and Canadian market Tercels.

The AC works great, functions as it should. The issue is when I turn the AC off, the compressor disengages just fine but the belt still slightly rolls the disengaged compressor, or at least the rotor. You can watch it happen, AC on and the compressor engaged it's quiet and spins exactly like it should. Turn the AC off and the compressor disengages but will still roll very slowly, we're talking like 10-15~ RPM and makes a kind of annoying squeak. I've taken to just driving around with the AC always on, though that robs me of valuable power
With the car off and the compressor disengaged I can freely rotate the clutch but it is 'sticky'. Looking up how the compressor is laid out I see this:


(via PARTSOUQ)

Based on this, and how it feels when I roll it with my hands, I assume that the bearing is bad (shown as 8833OB in the lower box there) which is Toyota 9009910135, a common bearing in all sorts of Toyota compressors. Am I right to assume that the compressor itself and the clutch mechanism is probably fine and it's just this bearing that is bad? And that I can replace the bearing easily enough*?

*Easily enough in that I need to do the timing belt and other things already, so I might as well do this with the front end of the car all apart

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IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





That seems likely. The other option would be if the clutch air gap was too tight, but that seems unlikely.

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