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Chello De Don
Nov 12, 2006

and now i do

Ainsley McTree posted:

And I’m not really clear on the morals or metaphysics of what happens to BTs when you kill them.

I think it's actually returning them to the world of the dead, to be reunited with their Ka. Whenever you cut the cord of a BT, you'll receive a like from it, which reinforces the idea that you've actually just helped it. what i'm not sure on is why BTs want to go after living people so bad.

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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Tertius Oculum posted:

Definitely the PC release will be superior. Which will probably come out before the PS5 version.

I can't wait for the model swaps. Adult sized BB walking around with tiny Norman Reedus.

Or a mod in the pc version that autoskips every cutscene related to the private room. :argh:

hughesta
Jun 12, 2012

i know its super duper kooper
cool like up the bitches snitches


Chello De Don posted:

I think it's actually returning them to the world of the dead, to be reunited with their Ka. Whenever you cut the cord of a BT, you'll receive a like from it, which reinforces the idea that you've actually just helped it. what i'm not sure on is why BTs want to go after living people so bad.
I assumed it was instinctual in some way, as if BTs lack a consciencesness or sentience and simply push towards living things

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012

GET BACK UP




MeatwadIsGod posted:

Yeah the ordradek cutscenes are annoying but it's a hidden loading screen so I guess there's no way around it.

I think this game was a masterpiece and all the critics panning it are dumb. For me the few times the game falters are when it plays it safe and tries to be a more conventional game like some of the boss fights and having weapons/combat

Same. I absolutely understand not liking the game but I don't think you could honestly call it bad. I don't even think I'd call the writing bad, it's just not very modern. But a character going on a journey where they encounter people who represent different ideas and give monologues on those ideas is a pretty common, if old, form of literature.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I can't believe you never got the shock lance that the MULEs have either.

The stick and the rope are mutually exclusive. :colbert:

I guess you get grenades instead.

Gruckles
Mar 11, 2013



Chello De Don posted:

I think it's actually returning them to the world of the dead, to be reunited with their Ka. Whenever you cut the cord of a BT, you'll receive a like from it, which reinforces the idea that you've actually just helped it. what i'm not sure on is why BTs want to go after living people so bad.

They just want to reach their hands out and form a connection with someone. Unfortunately this causes a matter/anti-matter reaction.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018

ASK ME ABOUT MY
UNITED STATES MARINES
FUNKO POPS COLLECTION



Damnit I need to get that trade with a porter trophy but when I tried the dude gave me his gun but just stared blankly at my grenade for a few seconds before walking away

Chello De Don posted:

I think it's actually returning them to the world of the dead, to be reunited with their Ka. Whenever you cut the cord of a BT, you'll receive a like from it, which reinforces the idea that you've actually just helped it. what i'm not sure on is why BTs want to go after living people so bad.

I think shooting or grenading them just drives them back, while cutting the cord actually sends them back for good because you've severed their connection to the world of the living. That's why you get a like for cutting the cord, but not for shooting them

Spite
Jul 27, 2001

Small chance of that...


I don't think that animation is hiding loading.

In Ch 6 You don't have anything to detect BTs and can get grabbed. The big guys are visible though and you can still kill them.

The trading with porters is finicky I've only gotten it to work once. I think I just held an item in my hand and stood there.

MeatwadIsGod
Sep 30, 2004

Behold! It is I! I bestow upon you...my dirty dipey!


Spite posted:

I don't think that animation is hiding loading.

In Ch 6 You don't have anything to detect BTs and can get grabbed. The big guys are visible though and you can still kill them.

The trading with porters is finicky I've only gotten it to work once. I think I just held an item in my hand and stood there.

Good point. I forgot about that.

I traded with a porter by dropping an item. He picked it up after a few seconds.

CaptainSkinny
Apr 22, 2011

You get it?
No.



Spite posted:

I don't think that animation is hiding loading.

In Ch 6 You don't have anything to detect BTs and can get grabbed. The big guys are visible though and you can still kill them.


Same thing happens if you screw up bad enough to put BB into shock and he closes himself off. No animation.

PancakeTransmission
May 27, 2007

You gotta improvise, Lisa: cloves, Tom Collins mix, frozen pie crust...




Plaster Town Cop

Spite posted:

I don't think that animation is hiding loading.

In Ch 6 You don't have anything to detect BTs and can get grabbed. The big guys are visible though and you can still kill them.
Yeah it's just that Kojima loves having repetitive animations for everything.
Love to press Options -> Skip 10 times just to get my stamina up, shower, etc. So immersive
Then finish resting.
Select Recycle. Skip twice. Deliver Cargo. Skip delivery animation. Skip twice to receive the 5 star reward. accept request. Skip the "loading your cargo" animation.

It was cool the first 100 times, but it's just wasting time instead of me playing the actual game: tripping down hills with too many pieces of cargo and having to soothe BB again

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8



The first time I tried to trade with a porter I accidentally walloped him in the face with my cargo and he crumpled and his buddy fled in terror and I got docked 3000 likes

theCalamity
Oct 23, 2010

Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War


Wrong thread

theCalamity fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Dec 2, 2019

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




theCalamity posted:

Wrong thread

He’s fragile, but not that fragile

Popular Human
Jul 17, 2005

and if it's a lie, terrorists made me say it


Chapter 12 really undercuts the whole message of this game if you have a lovely server, lol. Couldn’t have at least one person have built a loving timefall shelter?

Spite
Jul 27, 2001

Small chance of that...


Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:

The first time I tried to trade with a porter I accidentally walloped him in the face with my cargo and he crumpled and his buddy fled in terror and I got docked 3000 likes

I accidentally threw it at the dude the first time.


Gumball Gumption posted:

Same. I absolutely understand not liking the game but I don't think you could honestly call it bad. I don't even think I'd call the writing bad, it's just not very modern. But a character going on a journey where they encounter people who represent different ideas and give monologues on those ideas is a pretty common, if old, form of literature.

It directly contradicts its themes in several places. There are great moments and the setting is amazing. The writing, especially around Amelie, is kinda trash tho.

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.



Finished this last night. My roommate came home around 10pm and I told him, a little bit confused, that I think I beat the game. About 1am, I finally saw the final credits. I could tell the whale boss HAD to be the final challenge, because honestly, what was left? The game did a really good job of adjusting and adding to its basic mechanics to slowly but constantly ratchet up the difficulty and complexity throughout the entire campaign, ending in basically the most epic delivery mission ever where they finally outright break the rules on you and the BTs are out for blood during the end-of-the-world timefall storm. I was really impressed on how well it worked as a culmination of everything I've done in the last 62(jfc) hours, trekking back across the entire continent with boss fights breaking out every few areas and weird blimp BTs covering the skies, until finally your structures disintegrate entirely and the network fails, and you're left to finish the run with nothing but the gear you've got with you and whatever kindly strangers have left for you in online postboxes. What could they even follow that with, gameplay-wise?

Apparently the answer to that question is 2 or 3 hours where you sit through cutscenes and dialog interspersed with sections where you wiggle the stick around a little and hit a button, so you can't just get a sandwich and watch it like a movie. :v: I'm kidding, I did like the way Kojima uses the controller in your hands to make you a part of the movie. I don't know if you would have felt quite so stranded at the end if you were just watching Norman Reedus jog in circles for twenty minutes, and the final run to the incinerator wouldn't have felt the same if you weren't in control.


This was a fantastic experience. A mediocre game, if I'm being honest about it, with rather deep mechanics that aren't especially fun, unless you're into those weird Truck Simulator/Farming Simulator games. But the storyline, worldbuilding, production values, attention to detail -- everything else combines to make it one of the most memorable gaming experiences I've had in the last few years.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


Your "Kojima Brand Gameplay Interaction That Makes You Do The :psyduck: Emote" of the day: If you use the MULE cargo grabber gun to yoink the cargo off of a friendly porter, he'll freak out like OH NO WHERE'D IT GO, and you can hand it back to him and he'll be like ha ha you kidder complete with an animation of doubling over in laughter. I love these friendly porter dudes, they remind me of the friendly faction at the beginning of MGS4 where you can just hang around and mess with them in all kinds of harmless but funny ways.

edit: They also do the point-and-laugh animation if you trip and fall on your face in front of them or run your car into a wall or something.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Dec 3, 2019

UP AND ADAM
Jan 24, 2007

Tempered by the fires of Hell,his iron will remained steadfast through the passage that preys upon the weak. For alone he was the Hell Walker who sought retribution in all quarters and he hunted the slaves of Doom with barbarous cruelty




Spite posted:

It directly contradicts its themes in several places. There are great moments and the setting is amazing. The writing, especially around Amelie, is kinda trash tho.

This. The story's bad folks.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Counter-point it's great.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


UP AND ADAM posted:

This. The story's bad folks.

Hmm actually it's not. The story is good folks.

SpazmasterX
Jul 13, 2006

Wrong about everything XIV related
~fartz~


Gonna have to agree, story's good

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018

ASK ME ABOUT MY
UNITED STATES MARINES
FUNKO POPS COLLECTION



Woo I did it, Platinum Trophy! I thought I had it set up so that the memory chips trophy was the last one I needed. But I had missed the Homo Faber one. So the last thing I did in the game was fabricate a truck, fabricated everything else, loaded it all into the truck, and drove it into a river.

Kharn_The_Betrayer
Nov 15, 2013




Fun Shoe

Spite posted:

It directly contradicts its themes in several places. There are great moments and the setting is amazing. The writing, especially around Amelie, is kinda trash tho.

Care to explain in detail?

hughesta
Jun 12, 2012

i know its super duper kooper
cool like up the bitches snitches


the story is good

I got the platinum, 90 hours of video game finally complete. One of the best games of the generation, I adored it

Clavavisage
Nov 12, 2011


Gripweed posted:

Woo I did it, Platinum Trophy! I thought I had it set up so that the memory chips trophy was the last one I needed. But I had missed the Homo Faber one. So the last thing I did in the game was fabricate a truck, fabricated everything else, loaded it all into the truck, and drove it into a river.

I thought about doing this but ended up dumping everything into the shared locker

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.



I know I'm just supposed to put "story good" but to be honest I was pleasantly surprised at how well everything wrapped up by the end. I was half-expecting some sort of cop-out like "Love. Love is the answer (and don't think about it too hard or ask for specifics)" like a lot of bad video game stories, but pretty much everything was explained and tied together once you made it to the final credits.

Captain Queernabs
Dec 25, 2005

Fig. 1: bonehorse


Pillbug

Finished the game last night after 100+ hours of gameplay.

(final mission spoiler) I was stupid and didn't bring any guns except for one rifle to the final run to Capital Knot City, most of which I used up on the floaty guys. I had to sprint the gently caress away from the squid boss and the five(!) golden lions—were we supposed to fight these guys?

The whale nearly finished me off. I had to procure all my weapons from helpful ghosts, and I spent about fifteen minutes thinking I had to land a grenade in its open mouth; a stupid idea which meant I soaked up a lot of damage. At the end of the fight, I was down to like 100 blood, no stamina, and my cargo was at 99% damage.

As soon as the fight ended and the tar washed away, I got the call from Deadman congratulating me. I took two steps forward, collapsed due to low stamina, and fell backward. Cargo ruined—game over. I almost poo poo myself.

Thank god the game autosaved after the whale.


Overall my review is that this was an incredible game—mostly because of the outstanding gameplay, which very much told the story better than the actual A-plot. (I found most everything related to Amelie and the Final Stranding/extinction event to be pretty overwrought.) But the B-plot or should I say the BB-plot was incredible. I almost cried during the final cutscene. Just marvelous.

MeatwadIsGod
Sep 30, 2004

Behold! It is I! I bestow upon you...my dirty dipey!


CJacobs posted:

Your "Kojima Brand Gameplay Interaction That Makes You Do The :psyduck: Emote" of the day: If you use the MULE cargo grabber gun to yoink the cargo off of a friendly porter, he'll freak out like OH NO WHERE'D IT GO, and you can hand it back to him and he'll be like ha ha you kidder complete with an animation of doubling over in laughter. I love these friendly porter dudes, they remind me of the friendly faction at the beginning of MGS4 where you can just hang around and mess with them in all kinds of harmless but funny ways.

edit: They also do the point-and-laugh animation if you trip and fall on your face in front of them or run your car into a wall or something.

The porters rule and have really detailed behaviors. Like, they panic and run for a prepper shelter or timefall shelter when it rains, they actually make deliveries. Often I would clear out MULE camps for no other reason than to see more of them around.

I feel like Shinkawa was going for a hunter-gatherer vibe for the MULEs and porters that I would like to have been fleshed out more. The MULEs use techno-spears, the porters have walking sticks. I would have liked a bit more depth to the MULEs beyond "lol cargo cult" and as a cautionary tale of identifying too strongly with your job. Give me a MULE social structure, cargo-based religious elements, etc. if they're gonna be in the game.

Xinlum
Apr 12, 2009

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a Dark Knight



Captain Queernabs posted:

Finished the game last night after 100+ hours of gameplay.

(final mission spoiler) I was stupid and didn't bring any guns except for one rifle to the final run to Capital Knot City, most of which I used up on the floaty guys. I had to sprint the gently caress away from the squid boss and the five(!) golden lions—were we supposed to fight these guys?

The whale nearly finished me off. I had to procure all my weapons from helpful ghosts, and I spent about fifteen minutes thinking I had to land a grenade in its open mouth; a stupid idea which meant I soaked up a lot of damage. At the end of the fight, I was down to like 100 blood, no stamina, and my cargo was at 99% damage.

As soon as the fight ended and the tar washed away, I got the call from Deadman congratulating me. I took two steps forward, collapsed due to low stamina, and fell backward. Cargo ruined—game over. I almost poo poo myself.

Thank god the game autosaved after the whale.

Did I just get lucky? Besides whale boss I only ran into 1 lion and 1 squid guy the entire journey from West to the capital. Only BTs I ran into were those balloon guys at the top of the big hill by Port Knot.

J.A.B.C.
Jul 2, 2007

There's no need to rush to be an adult.



MeatwadIsGod posted:

The porters rule and have really detailed behaviors. Like, they panic and run for a prepper shelter or timefall shelter when it rains, they actually make deliveries. Often I would clear out MULE camps for no other reason than to see more of them around.

I feel like Shinkawa was going for a hunter-gatherer vibe for the MULEs and porters that I would like to have been fleshed out more. The MULEs use techno-spears, the porters have walking sticks. I would have liked a bit more depth to the MULEs beyond "lol cargo cult" and as a cautionary tale of identifying too strongly with your job. Give me a MULE social structure, cargo-based religious elements, etc. if they're gonna be in the game.

Have MULEs digging into the sides of mountains with tents over the entrances. Have bunkers complain about MULEs walking up with some other guys packages. Have a throne of cargo with a delivery drone set on top, an actual cargo cult. Give me some weird Nier:Automata poo poo in my Kojima game.

As it is now they kinda just feel...there. Which I get but it is still weird.

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!


I'm only 40 hours in and won't stay to be spoiled, but just to say....this game is really, really good. It's really rare for me that a game can have its themes, gameplay systems and the overall message actually connect so well like this game does. What a masterclass. What a game.

Also Norman Reedus is giving a really good performance! I've seen people praise Mads and I'm only upto chapter 7 so far...but Norman is really selling his character so far.

Ham fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Dec 3, 2019

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Hideo Kojima has his own emoji stickers on Telegram

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

How close is it to the game?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRqxgbuJ_DA

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007



The man himself gives a thumbs up
https://twitter.com/wwwbigbaldhead/status/1200471267322806272

Captain Queernabs
Dec 25, 2005

Fig. 1: bonehorse


Pillbug

Xinlum posted:

Did I just get lucky? Besides whale boss I only ran into 1 lion and 1 squid guy the entire journey from West to the capital. Only BTs I ran into were those balloon guys at the top of the big hill by Port Knot.

I think so? I avoided touching anything BT-related and the ground turned to tar from the middle of nowhere regardless.

edit: I misread your question. I don't know why you only had one lion. I had way too many lions. I only had one squid though.

SpazmasterX
Jul 13, 2006

Wrong about everything XIV related
~fartz~


Captain Queernabs posted:

I think so? I avoided touching anything BT-related and the ground turned to tar from the middle of nowhere regardless.

edit: I misread your question. I don't know why you only had one lion. I had way too many lions. I only had one squid though.

There's a few scripted encounters you can trigger on the way. But you can also avoid them. Like coming around the bend of the mountain toward Capital Knot has a lion encounter, but if you stick close to the mountain you'll avoid it.

Spite
Jul 27, 2001

Small chance of that...


Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:

Care to explain in detail?

Just my opinion

The game's main idea is "connection." You don't have a choice about this - that is the gameplay. Then the plot tells you that connection is literally extinction. The gameplay implicitly tells you connecting is good and the plot can't decide what it wants to say. Sam connects everyone and learns to touch people again, etc, etc. But Sam ends up walking away alone at the end. You could say it's being subversive and that connection is really going to kill us all. Kojima is not a subtle dude though.

Amelie/Bridget's motivations make no sense. She's basically waging a war against herself which would have been an interesting thing to explore. She impulsively gives Higgs superpowers and has him blowing stuff up...while also trying to rebuild the network? If she really had decided to just end everything she'd know the fastest way to do it is via the network.

I feel like Kojima has a ton of ideas, some brilliant, some good, some crazy - and dammit he's going to include all of them!

the_enduser
May 1, 2006

They say the user lives outside the net.





Spite posted:

Just my opinion

The game's main idea is "connection." You don't have a choice about this - that is the gameplay. Then the plot tells you that connection is literally extinction. The gameplay implicitly tells you connecting is good and the plot can't decide what it wants to say. Sam connects everyone and learns to touch people again, etc, etc. But Sam ends up walking away alone at the end. You could say it's being subversive and that connection is really going to kill us all. Kojima is not a subtle dude though.

Amelie/Bridget's motivations make no sense. She's basically waging a war against herself which would have been an interesting thing to explore. She impulsively gives Higgs superpowers and has him blowing stuff up...while also trying to rebuild the network? If she really had decided to just end everything she'd know the fastest way to do it is via the network.

I feel like Kojima has a ton of ideas, some brilliant, some good, some crazy - and dammit he's going to include all of them!


To be fair, he did walk away with Lou at the end?

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Eau de MacGowan
May 12, 2009

Just a poor man's Park Ji Sung

Leapord

Winner, TRP Post of the Month September 2021


like mario and princess beach!!! :haw: is the best kojima line since forget about pax americana, i'm talking pax hamburgana!!!

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