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freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

So I keep cruisin'
Can't stop, won't stop movin'
It's like I've got this music in my mind
Saying "It's gonna be alright"

I'm in what I guess is the endgame and jesus christ the story of this game is dumb

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Dlowmx
Feb 5, 2007
Eh

Dlowmx posted:

Hi, should I buy this game or RE2 Remake.

Welp, Just beat it tonight with 130 hours in! I'm definitely glad I followed goons suggestions to get it. I really enjoyed the world and atmosphere generated by the graphics, and sound (and music) design. Definitely evoked the big mood of isolation that kojima talked about. It made it that much better seeing other peoples structures already set up to help once you unlocked their chiral network

My favorite part is the boss fights when other players ghosts? Start tossing you ammo.

Also the ending was waaaay over indulgent, but I was so vested in the story and am ok with Kojima's storytelling that I didnt care. I was glad to be part of the journey. I like the Death Stranding world a lot better than the MGS one.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


freebooter posted:

I'm in what I guess is the endgame and jesus christ the story of this game is dumb

Boy howdy is it ever. But it's also enthralling imo.

Dlowmx posted:

Welp, Just beat it tonight with 130 hours in! I'm definitely glad I followed goons suggestions to get it. I really enjoyed the world and atmosphere generated by the graphics, and sound (and music) design. Definitely evoked the big mood of isolation that kojima talked about. It made it that much better seeing other peoples structures already set up to help once you unlocked their chiral network

My favorite part is the boss fights when other players ghosts? Start tossing you ammo.

Also the ending was waaaay over indulgent, but I was so vested in the story and am ok with Kojima's storytelling that I didnt care. I was glad to be part of the journey. I like the Death Stranding world a lot better than the MGS one.

Good to hear you enjoyed it. Keep on keepin' on. :)

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

So I keep cruisin'
Can't stop, won't stop movin'
It's like I've got this music in my mind
Saying "It's gonna be alright"

CJacobs posted:

Boy howdy is it ever. But it's also enthralling imo.

I'm glad somebody thinks so. I'm still sitting through these interminable cutscenes which Kojima apparently expects us to find enthralling.

There was a nugget of a good game here - the solitude of the central part, the sharing of structures and such - there was a brief period there where I was genuinely quite addicted to it. But it's just way too deep in way too much self-indulgent nonsense. (I realise I'm playing this late and this opinion has probably already been aired about a thousand times.)

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


I think the game being so self-indulgent is forgivable, because it's likely partly due to Kojima feeling pigeonholed by MGS. He's been saying he's ducking out of the series after each installment since MGS2 after all, he finally got his chance to do whatever the hell he wanted and it shows in both positive and negative ways.

edit: I also feel that there's this negative image surrounding Kojima where people act like he has driven a bike up his own rear end and bought a timeshare there because he fancies himself as an auteur- as if the self-indulgence is done out of ego. Personally I think it's more like a desire to deliver something compelling and 'whole' in a medium that's become increasingly about chopping things up into parts to make more money. Death Stranding is a 'whole' game. There doesn't need to be any more story, or any expansions, or a DLC store, and though the story pacing is all over the place I choose to believe that it is an effort to deliver something that you don't end up wanting more of that you'll never get. It's thorough, maybe a bit too thorough, but I don't really mind.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Jan 24, 2020

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


Lmao I just found out what happens if you throw a poop or pee grenade at a MULE's feet. If you throw it right at them they'll be like UGH GROSS but otherwise won't care, but if you throw it at their feet and they step in it, they'll slip and fall like some kinda looney tunes cartoon. :allears:

Dlowmx
Feb 5, 2007
Eh

For me, I felt like it was overindulgent in the sense that, ok you just played all these hours and wve been world building in small spirts all throughout. Now here comes a 3 hour long ending. I was expecting it of course but when Iím trying to share it with non gamers or Kojima fans itís like ok I beat the game, itís definitely not gonna be done in 10 minutes so Iíll come back and beat it when we get home. Ok weíre home, oops, there went another hour of ending, ok Iíll be here beating it while you run errands, ď oh hey youíre back,Ē hereís another hour and a half of ending plus a fetus gets shot.

Itís hilarious as poo poo to type out and itís Kojima.

I think the guy is brilliant and has built an incredibly immersive world and game experience. What I think heís trying to do is create an immersive cinematic experience which he succeeds in many ways. Itís just when it comes to story and narrative and pacing that he lacks that right Flow that sucks you in and keeps you in. I liked Amelie as a character but you barely get to know her and all of a sudden youíre stuck with her for two hours as she lectures about the universes indifference and all this other stuff. Maybe if we connected to her character more and her message was simplified itíd hit harder. Kojima definitely did it better with the boss in mgs3. I think here he just overshot.

But like you said, itís the first time he gets to live outside mgs, so when youíre free youíre just free.

I loved almost everything else about the game and have never found myself give more of a poo poo about npcs than I did here.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


Just discovered a bug in the post-game that made me waste half an hour searching for a piece of cargo that was not there. If you're going around redoing plot orders for S ranks, be wary of the first delivery to the Evo-Devo Biologist (from the Paleontologist). During the main game you get given an ammonite and have to go find 4 drilling devices in the nearby BT zone, then take it all to her, but in the post-game version you are not given the ammonite directly. It is instead dumped in the private locker at the Paleontologist and you aren't even notified of this. You have to leave the terminal, interact with it again, and go to the private locker for it to show up. Guess who didn't realize this for half an hour and ran around the BT zone looking for a dumb rear end ammonite that didn't exist!

new kind of cat
May 8, 2007


Is any explanation ever given for the giant brain BTs? Iím running around the post game hunting memory chips atm and I went to the lake north of the Craftsmen and west of the Ruined Shelter and the beach there is loaded with them! Were they there earlier in the game or is that a post-Edge Knot thing?

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


They're there for the whole game but are pretty much docile compared to the ones you encounter at Edge Knot. There are more over near the coast past the Timefall Farm, too. Surprisingly I don't think there is an explanation of what in the hell they are anywhere.

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009



the interviews from Sam's wife are rough. wish they were available way earlier in the game though, they're maybe the only thing that explains Sam's personality at the start of the game

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


The brains are there the whole time?. I feel like if you happen to stumble upon them it kind of ruins the "what the gently caress" feeling of encountering them later. I'm glad I didn't see them early

night slime
May 14, 2014


Jenny Agutter posted:

the interviews from Sam's wife are rough. wish they were available way earlier in the game though, they're maybe the only thing that explains Sam's personality at the start of the game

It really is kind of a bummer. The first naming BB Lou moment was basically flat, like it was just something he did for no reason, and you just listen to Deadman talk about it and you basically sit there confused. To consign all that context to an after-game e-mail you unlock like a dozen hours later...kind of a missed opportunity for development. Not great. Maybe budget would prevent a prologue of sorts, but still.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007


I didn't do anything in Chapter 15 and it's starting to sound like I missed out

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

So I keep cruisin'
Can't stop, won't stop movin'
It's like I've got this music in my mind
Saying "It's gonna be alright"

Dlowmx posted:

I loved almost everything else about the game and have never found myself give more of a poo poo about npcs than I did here.

The moment when I first became actively irritated by the story instead of merely tolerating it was when you have to cart that woman back to her junk dealer boyfriend and they have a long, overwrought, melodramatic conversation about their love while I'm sitting there watching it thinking "I don't know who you are and I don't are about this."

It's one of life's fascinating ironies that Kojima, at least according to popular theory, is more interested in being a film director than a game director. He is very very good at making video games - one of the best people in history, someone who will be discussed long after his death as a founding influence in the medium! - but his filmmaking skills are about on par with a nienteen-year-old boy in his first year of cinema studies at a community college.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


freebooter posted:

The moment when I first became actively irritated by the story instead of merely tolerating it was when you have to cart that woman back to her junk dealer boyfriend and they have a long, overwrought, melodramatic conversation about their love while I'm sitting there watching it thinking "I don't know who you are and I don't are about this."

It's one of life's fascinating ironies that Kojima, at least according to popular theory, is more interested in being a film director than a game director. He is very very good at making video games - one of the best people in history, someone who will be discussed long after his death as a founding influence in the medium! - but his filmmaking skills are about on par with a nienteen-year-old boy in his first year of cinema studies at a community college.

That part is legit bad, but I don't think that really represents the rest of the story. That part feels completely out of place in the game and is outright weirder than any BT or story thing that happens. It's really really bad, has nothing to do with the story, is a huge waste of time, the acting is awful, it's loving WEIRD. Everything about that quest is awful and I wish it was at least a side quest and nothing something you are forced to do to get to the next story part.

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009



CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I didn't do anything in Chapter 15 and it's starting to sound like I missed out

If you care about the lore there are interviews you can only get post game that add a lot of context

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009



Canít wait for the platinum spinoff death strand rising wherein by the final chapter you have the q pid equations carved into your face and are catching bt whales with your strand to throw back at Higgs during a boss fight

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


Sam, first you need to take a DOOMP.

Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

~special delivery~


DOOMP with Norman Reedus

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009



DOOMP sufferers

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

Old school? New school?
Shit, I didn't go to school



I also got to Chapter 15 and uninstalled, is there anywhere I could go to read the interviews and things I missed?

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


The Chiral Artist and Junk Dealer's little self contained story feels like something that got shaved down for time. I imagine the way the story continues in emails afterward was intended to be represented ingame as cutscenes or something interactive, but they didn't have time or decided against it. If you deliver to the Chiral Artists' Mother or Junk Dealer after their marriage falls apart and she leaves, she'll be there with her mother and there's a whole new set of delivery dialogues you can only hear for a very short while before they get back together.

grieving for Gandalf posted:

I also got to Chapter 15 and uninstalled, is there anywhere I could go to read the interviews and things I missed?

https://deathstranding.fandom.com/wiki/Interviews

The wiki has them all listed in order by sender.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 24, 2020

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009



grieving for Gandalf posted:

I also got to Chapter 15 and uninstalled, is there anywhere I could go to read the interviews and things I missed?

I would guess the wiki?

e: yeah they have all of the text on there

Jenny Agutter fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 24, 2020

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

No sense of smell? No problem! Just take one dose of Dr. Weinstein's miracle cure and you'll feel right as rain!



So what exactly happened to bridges I , especially on the west coast. It's hard to separate all the lies from what really went down

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


mastershakeman posted:

So what exactly happened to bridges I , especially on the west coast. It's hard to separate all the lies from what really went down

The ones that were left when they reached Edge Knot were all killed by Amelie.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


Huh, I just noticed that Sam's suit changes color when you're in a warm area. Just like it turns white in the snow, it gets a little darker in temperate places like the rocky area near the Film Director.

edit:



Here's a comparison I found on reddit.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

No sense of smell? No problem! Just take one dose of Dr. Weinstein's miracle cure and you'll feel right as rain!



RatHat posted:

The ones that were left when they reached Edge Knot were all killed by Amelie.

Oh lol why didn't I put that together. I couldn't figure out who killed them


So the entire homo demens thing was made up , right? Amelie was never captive, just pretending to be so Sam would connect the network.

And she said she visited him once, that was the time he kept asking her where her quipu was?

It was a bit weird that higgs seemingly controlled her at parts there considering his powers came from her but gently caress it, she was indecisive anyways so maybe she was just letting it happen

What's with the interviews about her being a ghost? Was Amelie only able to manifest physically when Bridgett was asleep until she finally evolved to have both halves physically present at the same time?

I feel like I'm asking too many questions and should just roll with it like I did with revolver ocelot being a quadruple agent and big mama a quintuple one

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Shooting them in the body doesn't seem to work.


mastershakeman posted:

Oh lol why didn't I put that together. I couldn't figure out who killed them


So the entire homo demens thing was made up , right? Amelie was never captive, just pretending to be so Sam would connect the network.

And she said she visited him once, that was the time he kept asking her where her quipu was?

It was a bit weird that higgs seemingly controlled her at parts there considering his powers came from her but gently caress it, she was indecisive anyways so maybe she was just letting it happen

What's with the interviews about her being a ghost? Was Amelie only able to manifest physically when Bridgett was asleep until she finally evolved to have both halves physically present at the same time?

I feel like I'm asking too many questions and should just roll with it like I did with revolver ocelot being a quadruple agent and big mama a quintuple one


You're pretty much on the money. Higgs controlling Amelie was just an illusion by him to mess with Sam, though. After the giant BT boss fight, when you're in the Seam after Higgs kills Sam, you can look up instead of going to your body and see them walking away together.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007


mastershakeman posted:

Oh lol why didn't I put that together. I couldn't figure out who killed them


So the entire homo demens thing was made up , right? Amelie was never captive, just pretending to be so Sam would connect the network.

And she said she visited him once, that was the time he kept asking her where her quipu was?

It was a bit weird that higgs seemingly controlled her at parts there considering his powers came from her but gently caress it, she was indecisive anyways so maybe she was just letting it happen

What's with the interviews about her being a ghost? Was Amelie only able to manifest physically when Bridgett was asleep until she finally evolved to have both halves physically present at the same time?

I feel like I'm asking too many questions and should just roll with it like I did with revolver ocelot being a quadruple agent and big mama a quintuple one


I think the Homo Demens were real, and even lead by Higgs at one point, they just became Amelie's tool after they met.

No idea about the ghost thing. There isn't much info on how Amelie's body in the real world works. A lot of the game seems to imply she doesn't have a physical body at all in the real world and it's all chiral holograms but then Higgs and Sam(at least I think he does?) touch her so I dunno.

RatHat fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Jan 25, 2020

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

So I keep cruisin'
Can't stop, won't stop movin'
It's like I've got this music in my mind
Saying "It's gonna be alright"

Macaluso posted:

That part is legit bad, but I don't think that really represents the rest of the story. That part feels completely out of place in the game and is outright weirder than any BT or story thing that happens. It's really really bad, has nothing to do with the story, is a huge waste of time, the acting is awful, it's loving WEIRD. Everything about that quest is awful and I wish it was at least a side quest and nothing something you are forced to do to get to the next story part.

It's absolutely the same as the rest of the story. Actors like Reedus or Seydoux might bring more to the voice acting and motion capture, but the observation I made is at least true of MGSIV and V as well - the story is just anime nonsense and melodrama galore, and my tolerance of it is dependent on how little of my time it's going to take up. "Die-Hardman" breaking down on his knees and weeping to me, Emilie spending an hour monologuing on the beach, Heartman's cliche yawnfest about trying to find his family in the afterlife, etc. I started looking at my phone about an hour into the cutscenes at the very beginning of the game and never regretted that. The earlier MGS games were absolutely guilty of this as well, but they knew how to curb it. They never made you watch it for hours on end with nothing else to do when you could be watching an actual movie or TV show. (And to be fair all this melodramatic crap is true of heaps of other games as well, and plenty of dumb movies, but it's never quite so incongruous as when paired against the genuine auteur genius of Kojima's gameplay.)

There is a nugget of a great game in there, and I liked it! The visual design is super distinctive and there was probably a 5-10 hour core (of the 40 hours I played) where I became really obsessed with building the highways and then building a zipline network across the mountains, because I knew that even though I wasn't going to bother doing many side deliveries, some other player might benefit from it and there was satisfaction just in the building of it. Also the soundtrack is great and the way it's integrated into the game is great.

But I'll never play it again and I'd never honestly recommend it to someone else. I don't regret my time, but yeah, it's an interesting failure rather than a good game.

(Also I just read this post back and I honestly don't know whether MGS 1-3 are genuinely more restrained and "better," or if it's just that I played those when I was aged 13-16 and was more tolerant of or even actively approving of that silly, silly story.)

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality


freebooter posted:

but his filmmaking skills are about on par with a nienteen-year-old boy in his first year of cinema studies at a community college.

Itís interesting Guillermo del toro who won an oscar last year for best director did not give hideo more help besides being a major character in the game.

I would think Guillermo would be giving Hideo hints and help on how to direct. Maybe the language barrier? :shrug: Maybe Guillermo just wanted to be in a videogame, wanted to be polite and not crush hideoís dream?

Ruffian Price
Sep 17, 2016



freebooter posted:

It's absolutely the same as the rest of the story.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


freebooter posted:

It's absolutely the same as the rest of the story. Actors like Reedus or Seydoux might bring more to the voice acting and motion capture, but the observation I made is at least true of MGSIV and V as well - the story is just anime nonsense and melodrama galore, and my tolerance of it is dependent on how little of my time it's going to take up. "Die-Hardman" breaking down on his knees and weeping to me, Emilie spending an hour monologuing on the beach, Heartman's cliche yawnfest about trying to find his family in the afterlife, etc. I started looking at my phone about an hour into the cutscenes at the very beginning of the game and never regretted that. The earlier MGS games were absolutely guilty of this as well, but they knew how to curb it. They never made you watch it for hours on end with nothing else to do when you could be watching an actual movie or TV show. (And to be fair all this melodramatic crap is true of heaps of other games as well, and plenty of dumb movies, but it's never quite so incongruous as when paired against the genuine auteur genius of Kojima's gameplay.

Yeah I personally don't agree with any of this. I loved the story and the acting, outside of that one weird quest. I loved Amelie monologuing on the beach, I LOVED every scene with Heartman, the two big scenes with him at his house were some of my favorite in the whole game, Die-Hardman breaking down was awesome. There was very little about this game I didn't like

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

So I keep cruisin'
Can't stop, won't stop movin'
It's like I've got this music in my mind
Saying "It's gonna be alright"

I am glad to hear it! Enough love and care went into this game, and there is enough stuff in it on a gaming level that I really liked, that I am genuinely glad there are people out there who love every bit of it even if I happen to have a low opinion of it.

(Also I'll grant that something I did like about the Heartman scenes was that they took place in an interesting location and felt like they'd been properly envisioned and executed, rather than just having Sam stare at a hologram jawing away at him in his bedroom or some nondescript hallway.)

Dr. Stab
Sep 12, 2010


DropsySufferer posted:

It’s interesting Guillermo del toro who won an oscar last year for best director did not give hideo more help besides being a major character in the game.

I would think Guillermo would be giving Hideo hints and help on how to direct. Maybe the language barrier? :shrug: Maybe Guillermo just wanted to be in a videogame, wanted to be polite and not crush hideo’s dream?

That's not really how it works. You don't just idly fix a story with some "hints" when you show up to get your face scanned.

Dlowmx
Feb 5, 2007
Eh


Thatís the nail on the head for me too, except I enjoyed it for the anime nonsense it was. This was pretty much cemented once we had to shoot rockets at the giant bt Amelie Higgs. Literally a scene out of so many other anime.

You kinda get tricked into expecting more with the talent involved. But I am ok with enjoying the b movie spectacle. Thatís what Kojima likes and thatís what he makes.

I think people are extra hard on this game because itís so hyped and expect more and because thereís a genuine demand for more quality out of big name developers.

Kojima games are like the fast and furious series, people get hyped into expecting blade runner.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

Dlowmx posted:

That’s the nail on the head for me too, except I enjoyed it for the anime nonsense it was. This was pretty much cemented once we had to shoot rockets at the giant bt Amelie Higgs. Literally a scene out of so many other anime.

You kinda get tricked into expecting more with the talent involved. But I am ok with enjoying the b movie spectacle. That’s what Kojima likes and that’s what he makes.

I think people are extra hard on this game because it’s so hyped and expect more and because there’s a genuine demand for more quality out of big name developers.

Kojima games are like the fast and furious series, people get hyped into expecting blade runner.

Did Blade Runner have a homoerotic fist fight on the top of a nuclear submarine?

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality


Dr. Stab posted:

That's not really how it works. You don't just idly fix a story with some "hints" when you show up to get your face scanned.

Interesting Guillermo did not do the voice of deadman all he did was get his faced scanned. I didnít know what Del Toro sounded like.

So he wasnít working with Hideo at all. Mystery solved.

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Dlowmx
Feb 5, 2007
Eh

WaltherFeng posted:

Did Blade Runner have a homoerotic fist fight on the top of a nuclear submarine?

It didnít ?

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