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I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Crow Jane posted:

I'm beginning to dislike Elisabeth Moss so much in this I find myself retroactively disliking Peggy Olsen.

I just remind myself that it is the character that sucks. There is nothing wrong with Elisabeth Moss in my opinion. June is so horrible.

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Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

screamin and creamin posted:

Eleanor was a huge liability for June's plan to save 52 kids. It was mentioned on the show that she couldn't get decent treatment. Do we know that she could have and would have been saved in Gilead? Maybe they would have performed some "thoughts and prayers" voodoo on her.

This is the same bullshit line of thought as the constant "We're just as bad as The Saviors (TM) because we killed some of them in self-defense when they tried to kill us. Oh God, what has become of us????????"
Eleanor never leaves the house and definitely could have just been kept away from company. Meanwhile Lawrence's entire interest in helping June was to get out with his wife and get her some help. Even though June letting Eleanor die "worked" on the show it seemed like an insanely stupid idea to me, morals aside. Also as a big "is June losing it and going too far" moment, it feels way too straight out of Breaking Bad (or even Sopranos)

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003


I said come in! posted:

I just remind myself that it is the character that sucks. There is nothing wrong with Elisabeth Moss in my opinion. June is so horrible.

Except the whole Scientology thing I guess

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Snow Cone Capone posted:

I appreciate the sentiment but "an actual crazy person off their meds"would lead me to assume that you, also, have no experience with mental illness, so let's go with the old standby about assuming things about strangers ;)

Ah yes, the 'ol " you didn't use the politically correct term so your argument is invalid" defense.

Substitute "mentally ill person off their meds" for "crazy person off their meds" and then tell me why I'm wrong you pedant.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003


D-Pad posted:

Ah yes, the 'ol " you didn't use the politically correct term so your argument is invalid" defense.

Substitute "mentally ill person off their meds" for "crazy person off their meds" and then tell me why I'm wrong you pedant.

No, no, you're right, the mentally ill are incapable of being reasoned with, unless they are medicated.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

Crow Jane posted:

I'm beginning to dislike Elisabeth Moss so much in this I find myself retroactively disliking Peggy Olsen.
Go watch Her Smell to remind yourself that she's great.

smoobles
Sep 4, 2014

That finale redeemed the weaker episodes in the season for me. I'm back on the hype train.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011

smoobles posted:

That finale redeemed the weaker episodes in the season for me. I'm back on the hype train.

It was better than the last fifteen or so episodes because things happened.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell
I'm not sure June is cut out to lead a resistance cell in the woods if that was her master plan of distraction, to be honest. If she lives, anyway.

CubanMissile
Apr 22, 2003

Of Hulks and Spider-Men
I assume she really has no idea how to shoot or else why the gently caress didn't she just return fire instead of throwing rocks or running away and getting shot.

Loomer
Dec 19, 2007

A Very Special Hell
Though I suppose it is consistent with her problem solving skills this season always leading to other women dying to decide the best plan is to throw rocks at the single solitary guard and then stay waiting in one spot until he can identify them and start shooting, rather than say, literally anything else.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!
Post-finale showrunner interview

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-season-3-finale-explained-1231582

Note: June was apparently shot in the shoulder, according to this.

On June's eventual ending:

quote:

"I don't think she has much hope that she's going to get out alive. I think she's more there to gently caress up Gilead."

On how Gilead will react to a hundred or so kids taking a Canadian vacation:

quote:

"So, I think that Gilead, from their point of view, under their set of codes, is going to be ready to go to war over this. I would. They were ready to go to war over the one child."

If the way they treat their citizens didn't already make it clear, Gilead's staggering military capabilities should punctuate the point: outright war with this nation is not advised.

"They have the exact same number — I believe it's 3,200 nuclear weapons — that we do," Miller says about Gilead's military. "They took over America. So every nasty helicopter, every fighter plane, they have all of it. They have the biggest military in the world, which is very, very important in all the discussions that people have about how to deal with them. They have this giant, powerful military that they can wield anywhere around the world. I think our country has eight aircraft carriers and no other country has more than two. So we're kind of leaps and bounds exponentially more powerful. I think that here, it's a moment of triumph, but I don't know what poo poo show it's going to lead to."

(note: this is the person actually writing the series. "What's it going to lead to? Ya got me, man!" Also, clearly Gilead does *not* have "100% of the US military" or there would be no rebellion.)

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

Gilead dudes sure love following people into the woods and getting ganked huh

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.
Nazis love getting killed in the woods.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Aug 14, 2019

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

CubanMissile posted:

I assume she really has no idea how to shoot or else why the gently caress didn't she just return fire instead of throwing rocks or running away and getting shot.

Why would she have any idea how to shoot? Using firearms seems like a good way to get him to call for backup if you don't manage to kill him in the dark while he's behind the cover of his jeep firing an assault rifle at you

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009

As a writer, it is incredibly frustrating that people getting paid this much don't know what the hell they're going to do for certain. You should have basic outlines.

Wafflecopper posted:

Gilead dudes sure love following people into the woods and getting ganked huh

I'm waiting for June to use a cardboard box next

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Lum_ posted:

On how Gilead will react to a hundred or so kids taking a Canadian vacation:


(note: this is the person actually writing the series. "What's it going to lead to? Ya got me, man!" Also, clearly Gilead does *not* have "100% of the US military" or there would be no rebellion.)

This is stupid though and ignores so many logistical considerations. The U.S. military is massively expensive to maintain, about 500 billion dollars a year at least. Its arsenal also covers the entirety of America, and has bases around the world. Gilead would not have access to even a quarter of the U.S. weapons and military vehicles if the maps we have seen on the show, are accurate. And then the writers are ignoring all of the staffing, and years of training, necessary to maintain this military. We've had multiple episodes that explained the world population is on a serious decline, and that Gilead is poor and hurting hard for money and resources.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!
And the not insignificant point, reinforced repeatedly in the series (such as defectors in Canada during the Moira-centric episode) that far from all US soldiers would be down with switching over to being enforcers of Gilead.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011

This show always falls apart if you think about the logistics of Gilead for more than five seconds, but I think if the last two episodes were indicative of the next season, it'll be pretty good.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003


Next season should be fun. Eager to see how they add yet another layer of plot armor to June's character!

Seriously, how the gently caress is she gonna get away with it. I guess Lawrence could cover for her, and plot armor will heal her wound before a doctor is like "hmm why does this handmaid have a bullet hole in her," but I feel like all the other Marthas and handmaids in the area are totally hosed.

Big Dick Cheney
Mar 30, 2007
Trap sprung but if you look at the map of Gilead they don't have all of the naval bases in the US. They have Norfolk but I think a good amount of aircraft carriers are based in California/Hawaii

Pinky Artichoke
Apr 10, 2011

Dinner has blossomed.

Lum_ posted:

And the not insignificant point, reinforced repeatedly in the series (such as defectors in Canada during the Moira-centric episode) that far from all US soldiers would be down with switching over to being enforcers of Gilead.

Not to mention they threw out 16% of the military right off the top when they decided women can no longer do jobs, plus the limitation on recruiting/drafting that more men are tied up doing critical civilian work that would've been done by women.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003


I think a lot of it is assumed by Canada and the other countries - we're repeatedly told Gilead is a black box, so getting an exact count might be tough, especially without ready access to records. They have to assume the worst, including the fact that if the US government was knocked off, there's a good chance retaliatory nuclear strikes would need to go through a hell of a lot less red tape, for example.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Pretty good finish. Probably coulda got there a season ago but whatever. I wonder what Nick's up to.

Gilead's soldiers are real loving bad.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Snow Cone Capone posted:

Next season should be fun. Eager to see how they add yet another layer of plot armor to June's character!

Seriously, how the gently caress is she gonna get away with it. I guess Lawrence could cover for her, and plot armor will heal her wound before a doctor is like "hmm why does this handmaid have a bullet hole in her," but I feel like all the other Marthas and handmaids in the area are totally hosed.

I don't think they're going back. They've moved the Waterfords out of Gilead; June's gone way too far to get back in. It's finally headed towards "June becomes Harriet Tubman".

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009

If nothing else, whoever is writing Serena is doing a good job. All the times she's been able to, she's never once told Luke that Hannah's name is Agnes now. Like, she's got this semi-revival thing going on and just no, she's still the core of who she is.

I don't understand how she's getting put up for rape, though? Am I just super seriously spotty with my memory of season 1? Or is Fred bullshitting to get Serena hosed over or what? I thought Serena and June and Nick all hatched that poo poo together? No?

Scrotum Modem
Sep 12, 2014

Fluffy Bunnies posted:

I don't understand how she's getting put up for rape, though? Am I just super seriously spotty with my memory of season 1? Or is Fred bullshitting to get Serena hosed over or what? I thought Serena and June and Nick all hatched that poo poo together? No?

My guess that it's viewed that, as a commander's wife, she was forced to play her role in the systemic rape of June. She had zero choice in the matter, regardless if she was actually for it. However in this case, she played a direct, voluntary role in directing Nick to "rape" June. From the perspective of the laws of Gilead, it was completely illegal so it's not like it was systemic. The romantic relationship that actually took place means nothing to the Canadian government - in fact I doubt they're aware of it. And from what I remember, Serena was completely unaware of their secret relationship beforehand. Let me know if I'm wrong there.

Scrotum Modem fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Aug 15, 2019

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

I'm totally not down with June surviving, I think this would have been dramatically stronger if she actually did sacrifice herself and they picked up with a new main character.

However.

This season was rough in spots but they nailed the ending (plus or minus June surviving). And based on how well they wrapped up - tell me you weren't crying during the whole hangar scene - I"m going to trust them to take June into season four and really gently caress Gilead's poo poo up.

This whole episode was great. It was shot really well. June with the 10 year old girl. June Osborne putting Joseph in his place. The Martha freaking out. Putting together food, water, and blankets for fifty kids montage (I thought they were making Molotovs at one point). They paid back, and inf act explained, what looked to be a weak season with this episode. I'm looking forward to S04 with a lot more optimism than I was S03.

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

Those scenes where they reach Canada and freedom always loving get me but the girl's father being the first person she sees when she gets off the plane was pretty implausible.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Grimey Drawer

mcmagic posted:

Those scenes where they reach Canada and freedom always loving get me but the girl's father being the first person she sees when she gets off the plane was pretty implausible.

I'm pretty bad at watching TV. I must have missed how people in Canada knew they were coming at all.

I'm also not clear on how Mr. Waterford knew about the Nick/June/Selina plot. I assume someone told him to twist a knife in him at some point, but I don't remember it.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

PostNouveau posted:

I'm pretty bad at watching TV. I must have missed how people in Canada knew they were coming at all.
That Benji dude she contacted for the plane.

luscious
Mar 8, 2005

Who can find a virtuous woman,
For her price is far above rubies.
In reality, Nick was raped too...

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

PostNouveau posted:

I'm pretty bad at watching TV. I must have missed how people in Canada knew they were coming at all.

I'm also not clear on how Mr. Waterford knew about the Nick/June/Selina plot. I assume someone told him to twist a knife in him at some point, but I don't remember it.

Fred knew he was impotent, he told Serena on their car trip. Even he can figure out what happened

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality
I want June lose touch completely go full psychopath and take Lydia’s place as aunt or grand aunt whatever. Now that would be a great ending.

CubanMissile
Apr 22, 2003

Of Hulks and Spider-Men
So did the bartender ever get paid? Doesn't look like June was hauling a priceless art collection with her.

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009
Serena is an idiot. She should have contacted Luke and suggested a switch. Luke gets Hannah, if Serena gets Nicole. Would Luke have been willing to trade June's rape baby for his own daughter? Maybe. How would June react to such a choice?

I want to see what Gilead does to the widow of the commander who died at Jezebels. How long will they leave her alone? No way Gilead will allow a single mum, no matter previous status. So children split up and adopted by new commanders? Widow becomes an Aunt? Or is placed with a family for safe keeping?

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

BattyKiara posted:

I want to see what Gilead does to the widow of the commander who died at Jezebels. How long will they leave her alone? No way Gilead will allow a single mum, no matter previous status. So children split up and adopted by new commanders? Widow becomes an Aunt? Or is placed with a family for safe keeping?

It sounds like at best a wife in Gilead becomes a Martha once their commander dies. I mean, she was pretty scared at the thought of her husband not coming back, but only because the consequences for her would be severe. I'm really interested in the lore behind this but I doubt it'll ever be explained.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Grimey Drawer

BattyKiara posted:

I want to see what Gilead does to the widow of the commander who died at Jezebels. How long will they leave her alone? No way Gilead will allow a single mum, no matter previous status. So children split up and adopted by new commanders? Widow becomes an Aunt? Or is placed with a family for safe keeping?

Eh, they've mined the vein of cruel rules of Gilead society dry. I'm not really interested in see what new horrors they cook up.

Do you think the writers have torture pitch meetings?

"Today's brainstorming session: What happens in Gilead when hormonal teens run off together"

"We chain them on the same post until they starve together!"
"We make them cut off each other's limbs one by one"
"No, we make them jump off diving boards with weights attached"

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.
To be fair, the "republican marriage" has precedent. Ironically, it's best known as a method of executing pro-clerical reactionaries.

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PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Halloween Jack posted:

To be fair, the "republican marriage" has precedent. Ironically, it's best known as a method of executing pro-clerical reactionaries.

I think we can firmly predict that the punishment for a wife's husband dying is the dunking chair

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