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TheRat
Aug 30, 2006



Yeah he's fairly huge

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sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008



Qojqva and Micke should show up at events dressed as santa and an elf

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.




Grimey Drawer

Pain really need to hire a drafter.

Kild
Apr 24, 2010


Reso nooo, your favorite book can't be atlas shrugged

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.




Grimey Drawer

They picked a Riki.

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.




Grimey Drawer

This is mega stompy.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008



goatface posted:

This is mega stompy.

Yeah it's kinda....bad

Dunite
Oct 12, 2013


The after game interview is going to be cringy.

I don't know how you don't just say that was sad.

Taffer
Oct 15, 2010




Kild posted:

Reso nooo, your favorite book can't be atlas shrugged

did he actually say this, lmao

I can forgive that if you're 17 but isn't he like 25-30

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008



i dunno im kinda mixed on alliance winning. On the one hand the players seem cool on the other hand loda so yknow

Kild
Apr 24, 2010


Taffer posted:

did he actually say this, lmao

I can forgive that if you're 17 but isn't he like 25-30

hes 22 and ya

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


I'm still waiting for Midas to not be in meta so much. Why the hell did Sven have one?

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


Zurreco posted:

I'm still waiting for Midas to not be in meta so much. Why the hell did Sven have one?

Most carries prefer phase over treads and midas fills the attackspeed gap and lets you farm faster.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



What's the "main" DOTA thread? I just started playing again and had a few questions.

I found this thread but it hasn't seen activity in 3+ weeks so that doesn't seem right to me. But maybe this game has fallen that much out of popularity since I last played :shrug:

emdash
Oct 19, 2003

and?


Sab669 posted:

What's the "main" DOTA thread? I just started playing again and had a few questions.

I found this thread but it hasn't seen activity in 3+ weeks so that doesn't seem right to me. But maybe this game has fallen that much out of popularity since I last played :shrug:

it isn't popular on these forums, that's for sure. but yeah that is the right thread. You can probably just ask here, I don't think the regulars will mind while there's not much else going on

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



Got'chya. Seems like when I last played it was constantly on the front page :)

More on topic, boy I don't even know who to root for this year now that n0tail finally won an Aegis last year - although I guess that's no reason to cross them off my list this year. Maybe we can get some more sick rear end Jerax earthshaker plays. I naturally haven't watched jack poo poo since TI8.

emdash
Oct 19, 2003

and?


Sab669 posted:

Got'chya. Seems like when I last played it was constantly on the front page :)

More on topic, boy I don't even know who to root for this year now that n0tail finally won an Aegis last year - although I guess that's no reason to cross them off my list this year. Maybe we can get some more sick rear end Jerax earthshaker plays. I naturally haven't watched jack poo poo since TI8.


In no order, here are some of the storylines:

Alliance made a bunch of new fans with their Summit showing this past weekend. They are all very personable and fun, and they've stuck together for a long time

Liquid kicked Matu before the final major (adding w33 in his place) and then Matu made it to TI as part of Chaos, so if those teams have to play each other it will be a big deal

Forward made the tournament through NA qualifiers and then their org disintegrated, so now they are an NA stack playing under the Newbee brand

TNC is coached by Heen (Liquid TI7 coach) and have been getting better as the season goes on, finishing 4th at the last major

Navi made it through CIS qualifiers (after an epic collapse by Gambit, who had been the best not-VP CIS team all season) and have a Techies picker

Fnatic had a good early season and then basically fell apart, culminating in benching MP, moving their 5 (Jabz) to pos1, and moving their coach (Dubu) to pos5

emdash fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jul 29, 2019

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei



I'm kinda hoping LGD or VP make it this year. Both teams have had relatively stable rosters for like 3 years (which is like a goddamn century in pro Dota time), LGD has gotten super close multiple times, and VP always comes in flaming hot to TI only to crash out spectacularly. So those are the two I'm rooting for this year.

emdash
Oct 19, 2003

and?


Btw, teams are starting to arrive in China (EG got there today), and you can't see their pubs normally because they're on Perfect World. So the DotaTV twitch channel is going to be extra useful if you want to watch the meta leading up to TI: https://twitch.tv/dotatv247

And a reminder that high level Chinese pubs are Random Draft, not All Pick

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


Patch is out: http://www.dota2.com/patches/7.22f

Sudden Loud Noise
Feb 18, 2007




emdash posted:

And a reminder that high level Chinese pubs are Random Draft, not All Pick

Wait, Chinese dota is the best dota?

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


RazzleDazzleHour posted:

https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta

I don't know why you're so adamant that you know better than the data that is easily available just because you have some 2k anecdotal evidence but considering you can't even get the player/hero combination right on Shaker/Universe I don't think you have any grounds to talk about people being wrong

Sorry Nahaz, I didn't realize that I needed to have my findings published in a journal for them to count. But the data I see shows me he has the 7th lowest pickrate in the game. It's neat that Visage has a high winrate, I'm glad that the highest mmr players know the right situations to pick him in. It doesn't seem like a big stretch for me to say that this champ is not very good in most situations. Every champion in the game can succeed in perfect circumstances, but that ain't what makes them good.

I don't think that I'm even being adamant when a character I literally haven't seen in 3 months in pubs, and who has 40 pro games in like 6 months doesn't seem that good. How can he pass the eye test when you never see him? I will happily admit that I am wrong when Visage passes Sniper on the page you linked in pick rate, okay sir?

I honestly don't understand why it matters who was playing the earthshaker though, its beyond me why that would be the most important part of that why do you care about that at all

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


Up Circle posted:

This thread is wrong on many things and sometimes you turn a blind eye, but I'm going to go ahead and mark down Visage viability and mason being okay in my spreadsheet.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


yes, i don't mean to imply that a hero is good because in a very narrow set of circumstances he succeeds. he is not viable.

Wait are you talking about mason? Mason is for sure not okay.

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Sab669 posted:

Got'chya. Seems like when I last played it was constantly on the front page :)

More on topic, boy I don't even know who to root for this year now that n0tail finally won an Aegis last year - although I guess that's no reason to cross them off my list this year. Maybe we can get some more sick rear end Jerax earthshaker plays. I naturally haven't watched jack poo poo since TI8.

Hey there friend, someone posted some storylines but Iím finishing up the second post of the thread that will have more of these (just started a new job and havenít had the time)

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


Up Circle posted:

Sorry Nahaz, I didn't realize that I needed to have my findings published in a journal for them to count. But the data I see shows me he has the 7th lowest pickrate in the game. It's neat that Visage has a high winrate, I'm glad that the highest mmr players know the right situations to pick him in. It doesn't seem like a big stretch for me to say that this champ is not very good in most situations. Every champion in the game can succeed in perfect circumstances, but that ain't what makes them good.

I don't think that I'm even being adamant when a character I literally haven't seen in 3 months in pubs, and who has 40 pro games in like 6 months doesn't seem that good. How can he pass the eye test when you never see him? I will happily admit that I am wrong when Visage passes Sniper on the page you linked in pick rate, okay sir?

I honestly don't understand why it matters who was playing the earthshaker though, its beyond me why that would be the most important part of that why do you care about that at all

Sick shifting goal posts my dude. I want you to understand that winrate and pickrate both increase for Visage the higher your MMR is. The reason why mid Visage isn't more popular is because it's weird and different compared to most other mid heroes. Yknow what other hero has a low pickrate and extremely high winrate in high MMR pubs? Chen. There are lots of heroes in DotA that are very hard to play, even for very good players, and for whom you need a specific set of skills in order to fully exploit; thus, their pickrate does not necessarily reflect how strong they actually are. Winrate is basically all that matters when it comes to high MMR pubs; pickrate is mostly just an indication of how unusual a hero is.

Sampatrick fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jul 29, 2019

schmitty9800
Feb 9, 2003



Up Circle posted:

Sorry Nahaz, I didn't realize that I needed to have my findings published in a journal for them to count. But the data I see shows me he has the 7th lowest pickrate in the game. It's neat that Visage has a high winrate, I'm glad that the highest mmr players know the right situations to pick him in. It doesn't seem like a big stretch for me to say that this champ is not very good in most situations. Every champion in the game can succeed in perfect circumstances, but that ain't what makes them good.

I don't think that I'm even being adamant when a character I literally haven't seen in 3 months in pubs, and who has 40 pro games in like 6 months doesn't seem that good. How can he pass the eye test when you never see him? I will happily admit that I am wrong when Visage passes Sniper on the page you linked in pick rate, okay sir?

I honestly don't understand why it matters who was playing the earthshaker though, its beyond me why that would be the most important part of that why do you care about that at all

He's a good hero but he's hard to play so his pick rate will never be high. Thanks for the paragraph though

RisqueBarber
Jul 10, 2005




nice a clock buff

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


Tinker got a lateral buff as well.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


Sampatrick posted:

Sick shifting goal posts my dude. I want you to understand that winrate and pickrate both increase for Visage the higher your MMR is. The reason why mid Visage isn't more popular is because it's weird and different compared to most other mid heroes. Yknow what other hero has a low pickrate and extremely high winrate in high MMR pubs? Chen. There are lots of heroes in DotA that are very hard to play, even for very good players, and for whom you need a specific set of skills in order to fully exploit; thus, their pickrate does not necessarily reflect how strong they actually are. Winrate is basically all that matters when it comes to high MMR pubs; pickrate is mostly just an indication of how unusual a hero is.

Chen is both more flexible and a totally different role. Is anyone arguing that Lycan is a great hero? But he's another high winrate hero with a miniscule pick rate, and actually the only one comparable to Visage within that list. Huskar doesn't really have any specific skill sets, meepo is more demanding and yet way more impactful, surprise surprise, he is picked more too.

You are acting like visage is this intensely demanding and difficult to play hero. He's absolutely not that hard for high level players to master, but he does fill a very very small niche, and the fact that he does well within that doesn't mean that he is a good hero in the overall state of the game. Being picked in matchups and team comps where visage is likely to succeed is going to increase his winrate, but I'm telling you that the reason his pickrate is so incredibly low is that in virtually any other game state, which is important for talking about high mmr pubs, you would want a different hero. You can find a dozen heroes that are more mechanically difficult to play or more demanding of game sense and they still have a much higher usage at the highest levels.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



Up Circle posted:

this champ

Every champion

stopped reading here tbh

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



No visage buffs I guess he'll forever be in the dumpster

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


Guess I'd better stop playing the 65% winrate bad hero Visage, instead I'll play the 46% very impactful Meepo

Terminal autist
May 17, 2018

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!


Up Circle posted:

Sorry Nahaz, I didn't realize that I needed to have my findings published in a journal for them to count. But the data I see shows me he has the 7th lowest pickrate in the game. It's neat that Visage has a high winrate, I'm glad that the highest mmr players know the right situations to pick him in. It doesn't seem like a big stretch for me to say that this champ is not very good in most situations. Every champion in the game can succeed in perfect circumstances, but that ain't what makes them good.

I don't think that I'm even being adamant when a character I literally haven't seen in 3 months in pubs, and who has 40 pro games in like 6 months doesn't seem that good. How can he pass the eye test when you never see him? I will happily admit that I am wrong when Visage passes Sniper on the page you linked in pick rate, okay sir?

I honestly don't understand why it matters who was playing the earthshaker though, its beyond me why that would be the most important part of that why do you care about that at all

Visage isnt as broken as he was when they remade HoTD but that wasnt that long ago, I got carried like a week ago by a visage mid booster its still not super unusual. Visage isnt even that hard to make work in pubs just pick slar and 5man towers early

Kild
Apr 24, 2010


according to stats visage is a really good counter to Io. You just send your bats at wisp and they die.

Dunite
Oct 12, 2013


Wasn't the general DotA 2 thread gassed a half dozen times because of JPJ?

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Dunite posted:

Wasn't the general DotA 2 thread gassed a half dozen times because of JPJ?

Probably

Ambivalent
Oct 14, 2006



mostly what i hate as visage is when anyone buys a crimson guard and you like instantly become not a hero during that buff duration, or if they have one of the heroes that just destroys your birds or something

i love him a lot but i do absolutely believe he is extremely situational and has to go off by having a few heroes he can just destroy

Knowlue
Nov 11, 2012

I could eat a sea cucumber


Dunite posted:

Wasn't the general DotA 2 thread gassed a half dozen times because of JPJ?

And another dozen because of bbg

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ILL Machina
Mar 25, 2004

:italy: Glory to Italia! :italy:

Ayy!! This text is-a the color of marinara! Ohhhh!! Dat's amore!!


I feel like visage was picked more when his birds were spell immune. As a slight counter to naga sleep and stuff

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