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Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


Just waiting for LGDAmeFan to start leaking info. Until then, 99% of rumors sound so stupid.

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Taffer
Oct 15, 2010




Carrier posted:

When are we getting the Fly redemption ark

Top 10 anime betrayals can't be undone

SpiritOfLenin
Apr 29, 2013

be happy :3




mikeraskol posted:

I wouldn't really overreact to this kind of thing tbh. It's more that all of OG are incredibly good players whose playstyles complement each other extremely well.

I think OG has proven that just throwing the best players on a team isn't enough though - they have incredible synergy, willpower, and their bond is incredibly strong, but mechanically none of them are the absolute best of their role I don't think. I mean they are all world class players individually but most of the top teams at TI also have world class players, some of the poo poo Liquid, Secret and LGD did was absolutely bonkers this TI, but it wasn't enough. If some team wants to create a squad that's on the same level as OG this TI, it requires some real effort to find players that works as well together as OG, and it won't happen by just trying to find the "best" players.


the team might also need some loving powerful motivation like OG had going into TI8

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Also looking at the bans from grand finals. I donít know why liquid prioritized the Tidehunter so much especially after game 2. OG clearly knew how to shut down mind controlís game. In game 3, they banned Magnus/aa/io and let the enchantress through, and they first picked Rubick and tide. OGís next wave of bans starts with a meepo ban, the hero that OG werenít able to beat. I really do think that Kuroky and the rest of the team got heavily outdrafted this series. It really does remind me of Wings at ti6

Indecisive
May 6, 2007



Just saw game 2 and holy poo poo did Mindcontrol get dumpstered, especially when he was sent to push top lane and Jerax just went and harassed him for like 2 solid minutes preventing him from going back before Topson made his way up to kill him. Overall the game didn't feel so onesided as people made it sound though, OG didn't really pull ahead and start dominating until like 20 mins in which is when you'd expect their lineup to be strongest

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.




Grimey Drawer

The Tide was so poor it was just a walking ravage bot, might as well have been a position 4. It had worked for them in their previous games, so I guess they just thought it was a one-off.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



lookit this double camp block by jerax

https://i.imgur.com/bMpXfZX.mp4

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


Zurreco posted:

Just waiting for LGDAmeFan to start leaking info. Until then, 99% of rumors sound so stupid.

The SEA Nostra guy usually has good info

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


IcePhoenix posted:

lookit this double camp block by jerax

https://i.imgur.com/bMpXfZX.mp4

This might be the most high skill thing I've ever seen

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010




If I was a pro player I'd drop all kinds of fake bullshit

Red Red Blue
Feb 11, 2007





Zurreco posted:

Just waiting for LGDAmeFan to start leaking info. Until then, 99% of rumors sound so stupid.

gonna have to wait for ccnc to get home from TI

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


I was going to post some differences between my lol and Dota watching experiences, but I'm hitting the hay with the OG Against the odds movie, and with Penis cutting drama, I don't really think I need to post about anything that's not already been posted.

Its Rinaldo
Aug 13, 2010

CODS BINCH


Sampatrick posted:

This might be the most high skill thing I've ever seen

That and the notail ranged creep rune deny was amazing poo poo I never even thought of

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015


The REAL Goobusters posted:

The big lesson coming out of this TI is that teams should be filled with players that enjoy each otherís company and can form a good bond of trust

:rip: NA dota

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015


Sampatrick posted:

This might be the most high skill thing I've ever seen

Game 2, OG ganked top lane, stopped for like 2s on their way to gank mid to block triangle spawns. I am amazed that they could remember the timings while playing full bumrush dota.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


Its Rinaldo posted:

That and the notail ranged creep rune deny was amazing poo poo I never even thought of

That play was the essence of "but wait, there's more!". He dies stalling for the safelane tower, dominates a ranged creep to aggro the creepwave delaying the push, pulls the entire wave to mid for Ana on Alch to farm *and* denies a rune with that creep.

ElNarez
Nov 4, 2009


Its Rinaldo posted:

That and the notail ranged creep rune deny was amazing poo poo I never even thought of

The one thing I'm taking from OG's run is that so much of Dota just hasn't been explored. That Diffusal Blade pickup on Gyrocopter? It's the 8th one EVER. The Deso on Tide? 29 times ever. What this tells me is that there's a hidden wealth of situational item builds that work as counters to an opponent's draft, and what I want to see in the upcoming season is more teams exploring that possibility space in the way OG have. Seems like a pretty winning formula to me, at least.

scuz
Aug 29, 2003

You can't be angry ALL the time!






Fun Shoe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7YjVm-S-eY

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


This against the odds bit in OG is so drat good, Jesus

Incoherence
May 22, 2004

POYO AND TEAR


ElNarez posted:

The one thing I'm taking from OG's run is that so much of Dota just hasn't been explored. That Diffusal Blade pickup on Gyrocopter? It's the 8th one EVER. The Deso on Tide? 29 times ever. What this tells me is that there's a hidden wealth of situational item builds that work as counters to an opponent's draft, and what I want to see in the upcoming season is more teams exploring that possibility space in the way OG have. Seems like a pretty winning formula to me, at least.
Deso on Tide wasn't a thing before the Anchor Smash change in 7.20, at least. There's no real reason why Diffusal Gyro couldn't work last year, though.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011


SpiritOfLenin posted:

I think OG has proven that just throwing the best players on a team isn't enough though - they have incredible synergy, willpower, and their bond is incredibly strong, but mechanically none of them are the absolute best of their role I don't think. I mean they are all world class players individually but most of the top teams at TI also have world class players, some of the poo poo Liquid, Secret and LGD did was absolutely bonkers this TI, but it wasn't enough. If some team wants to create a squad that's on the same level as OG this TI, it requires some real effort to find players that works as well together as OG, and it won't happen by just trying to find the "best" players.


the team might also need some loving powerful motivation like OG had going into TI8

I think that Infamous also proved this point. Imo even harder than OG. They got way farther than their skill and experience would do alone

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015


Incoherence posted:

Deso on Tide wasn't a thing before the Anchor Smash change in 7.20, at least. There's no real reason why Diffusal Gyro couldn't work last year, though.

Until sidegunner, diffusal would be extremely niche. Don't wanna lookup the patch rn tho.

jsoh
Mar 24, 2007

O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight


Xarn posted:

Until sidegunner, diffusal would be extremely niche. Don't wanna lookup the patch rn tho.

april 2016

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


Nasgate posted:

I think that Infamous also proved this point. Imo even harder than OG. They got way farther than their skill and experience would do alone

What are you talking about, Infamous proved that their skill wasn't behind that of other teams. Their loss against Secret was basically entirely due to lack of experience, not skill.

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



The Chinese community is in complete full meltdown mode over LGDís loss lmao goddamn

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


And rightfully so. Chinese teams have been massively underperforming from what you would expect for years now.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010




Sampatrick posted:

And rightfully so. Chinese teams have been massively underperforming from what you would expect for years now.

That's what they get for screwing over Wings

Its Rinaldo
Aug 13, 2010

CODS BINCH


Andrast posted:

That's what they get for screwing over Wings

:hai:

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



The REAL Goobusters posted:

The Chinese community is in complete full meltdown mode over LGDís loss lmao goddamn

I mean yeah, you saw it first hand during the grand finals. Wouldn't be shocked if they never go back there for a TI because of it.

Taffer
Oct 15, 2010




Yeah I think something that stands out is the players people consider the "best" are usually ranked based on purely mechanical skill. Reaction times, good comboing, multitasking in a fight etc. But those same players usually have really small hero pools and very predictable item progressions. There is way, way more to what makes a player good than mechanical skill. How they work in a team, how well they're able to adapt, how broad their hero pool is, how creative they can get to keep the enemy guessing, etc. I feel like even the teams themselves really often overlook the less tangible things when picking players.

I couldn't stand the dumb explanation the panel came up with, "most teams are science but OG is art". It's not "science", it's timidity. LGD has great mechanical skill and exceptional discipline but they had one of the smallest hero pools this TI - they play rigidly and do not experiment and that makes them predictable and counterable despite their exceptional individual skill. OG's lack of timidity (and their trust in each other) let's them really think outside the box and do the "wrong" things that turn out to be exactly right, like diffusal gyro and carry wisp and mid pugna/mk that nobody else is doing. Everyone else is following a collectively agreed upon meta, OG is just building their own.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



Why did they even go to China this year? I think I recall something about it being too hard to reliably get Chinese players' visas for the US/Canada?

If so, then why Sweden next year?

SpiritOfLenin
Apr 29, 2013

be happy :3




Taffer posted:

Yeah I think something that stands out is the players people consider the "best" are usually ranked based on purely mechanical skill. Reaction times, good comboing, multitasking in a fight etc. But those same players usually have really small hero pools and very predictable item progressions. There is way, way more to what makes a player good than mechanical skill. How they work in a team, how well they're able to adapt, how broad their hero pool is, how creative they can get to keep the enemy guessing, etc. I feel like even the teams themselves really often overlook the less tangible things when picking players.

I couldn't stand the dumb explanation the panel came up with, "most teams are science but OG is art". It's not "science", it's timidity. LGD has great mechanical skill and exceptional discipline but they had one of the smallest hero pools this TI - they play rigidly and do not experiment and that makes them predictable and counterable despite their exceptional individual skill. OG's lack of timidity (and their trust in each other) let's them really think outside the box and do the "wrong" things that turn out to be exactly right, like diffusal gyro and carry wisp and mid pugna/mk that nobody else is doing. Everyone else is following a collectively agreed upon meta, OG is just building their own.

Wings was pretty much the same if I remember correctly, they just played their own game and styled on everyone else.



God, can you imagine what kind of match a TI9 OG vs TI6 Wings would be like.

GOOD TIMES ON METH
Mar 17, 2006



Fun Shoe

The arena they have been doing TI at in Seattle has been under renovation and probably will be for a while still.

They went to China because a lot of people in China like Dota!!!

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010




Sab669 posted:

Why did they even go to China this year? I think I recall something about it being too hard to reliably get Chinese players' visas for the US/Canada?

If so, then why Sweden next year?

I personally asked Gaben for a better timezone

TheRat
Aug 30, 2006



Because Sweden is very different to the US presumably

emdash
Oct 19, 2003

and?


Lots of possible reasons including the impending release of Steam in China but regardless, why would you not have the championship in one of the game's three biggest markets at least once?

It's not bound to NA by anything in particular, least of all by popularity. Gonna be a lot of CIS fans in Stockholm which will be very cool. Hopefully it goes to like Singapore next

emdash fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Aug 26, 2019

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010




I'm seriously thinking of going to TI next year since it's so close

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


OG didn't play the meta, they played Dota. Every other team played their own understanding of the meta; OG and Wings were different in that they sorta played the meta but mostly they just drafted matchups that made sense even if the heroes were out of meta.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



I'm thinking about going too but it's not close at all. I'm US East, but I've always wanted to visit Sweden / Scandinavia.

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Andrast
Apr 21, 2010




Sab669 posted:

I'm thinking about going too but it's not close at all. I'm US East, but I've always wanted to visit Sweden / Scandinavia.

I'm in Helsinki Finland so Stockholm is just one cheap drink heavy boat ride away

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