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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.






Grimey Drawer

This is gonna take the longest goddamn textblock to explain

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Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008

I have to believe I can do this.







Zereth posted:

... when's the last time mookie depicted somebody talking in this strip? Like, is he forgetting to draw the other indications that people are talking when the word balloons are absent?

When when bad human/witch duo were yelling at good orc/witch duo.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


oriongates posted:

...is beard-orc mute? That's really the only scenario where this kind of makes sense, if we assume that he normally communicates non-verbally and therefore all he needs is to call the assistant's attention and he's automatically provided writing instruments to express himself in more detail.

Honestly I was wondering the same thing, like the paper is similar to Snout writing in his diary, it's for him to write down what he wants to say. That would be incredibly dumb since obviously in real life deaf/mute people don't usually walk around with notebooks to write down everything they want to say. But since Mookie can't really portray sign language in this, and he apparently thinks thought bubbles would be cheating, we get everyone writing paragraphs.

oriongates
Mar 14, 2013

Validate Me!




Someone really needs to introduce both him and snout to the utility of a chalk slate or wax tablet, because it's so drat stupid for them to just use bound books for day-to-day communication. Like, forget the issues of how much book-binding would logically cost at whatever schizophrenic tech level the Deegverse operates on, even if we went by the modern-day costs of industrial book and paper making it would be incredibly wasteful. They seem to use up a page every time they say literally anything, so a decently long conversation probably uses...maybe 50 pages. A hardcover sketchbook (if they used pencils they could get away with thinner paper, but they use ink) of around 100 pages is roughly 10 bucks.

So, they'd be spending the deegverse equivalent of hundreds of dollars a month to just carry on casual conversations. No wonder Snout lived like a hermit before the story started: he couldn't afford to talk to people. Maybe that's why he was so cartoonishly desperate to grab the original pages, because he thought they might be blank and he was desperate for writing materials.

That's not even accounting for the fact that Snout's complete lack of any internal life means that he can only "think" by writing things down on paper. Half his writing isn't even note-taking or reflective...it's just the thoughts in his head, as though he actually can't think without writing (proven by the fact that his sole thought bubble just contained a page of his own previously written text). So Snout probably goes through an extra 5-10 books a month just to keep up with his external monologue.


You know, out of all the boneheaded decisions in this story, one of the worst is still the yawning void that is Snout's off-panel life. The guy basically didn't exist prior to the beginning of this comic. He even sewed on his own stupid deaf patch at the beginning of the story...an act which is completely devoid of meaning, given that there seemed to be only one creature he interacted with before meeting IWP: the librarian. A being that already knew he was deaf and had no mouth to speak to him anyway. He had no friends, no history, no family, nothing but a house (which is gone), clothes (which are gone) a diary and a library card.

(Thelonious still hasn't given Snout his library card back)

It's weird, because this is one of the few criticisms you can't level at the original DD comic. Family, relationships and history were actually pretty important. Characters had places they came from, prexisting relationships, family members that shaped the sort of people they became. As much as these relationships were often played for very cheap drama, it at least showed an effort to create characters who felt like they had a life before their first appearance in the comic.

Another weird thing: going back to confirm that the librarian had no mouth, I realized that the art in Legacy is dropping in quality dramatically. Not everything, I will admit that compared to his appearance at the start of the comic, Snout's current softboy furry look is kind of a relief. But in terms of panel composition, environment, gesture and visual storytelling the original pages were almost an order of magnitude better than the current ones (damning with faint praise I know). Like, almost every page in the Wild Edge featured at least something to illustrate snout's surroundings and there'd often be shots zoomed out far enough to give an impression of position and movement within any given page...like, Bortz' library is deeply stupid, but it had a visual character and when Snout was there you could tell because there were...you know, books and poo poo in the background. Here, it isn't even clear if they're still in the library or not. Most of the previous pages have "backgrounds" that consist of single, horizontal lines in one or two panels...sometimes intersecting lines if you're really lucky. And while Snout's original actions were often cartoonishly overblown slapstick, he did at least have a sense of physical movement...he actually walked or jumped or ran, he didn't just teleport from panel to panel.

And this is coming from someone who thinks most of the criticisms about Mookie's art is kind of digging for something to hate, but looking back it's clear that things have gotten much, much worse recently.

EDIT: like, compare the skori tree bit to the current pages. it's insane.

oriongates fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Apr 20, 2021

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002





Today we learned... Guy who is bad? He's bad.

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome




God that mommy stare gets more creepy each time

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



mommy gonna gently caress that deaf baby

GreenMetalSun
Oct 11, 2012


Possibly off topic, but since the recap posts seem to have slowed/stopped, can someone fill me in on Dance Commander (?). Why was he called that?

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014




Hell Gem

I'll be honest, I have no clue what's been going on these last two pages.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy




Soiled Meat

GreenMetalSun posted:

Possibly off topic, but since the recap posts seem to have slowed/stopped, can someone fill me in on Dance Commander (?). Why was he called that?

It's because a lot of the big dramatic poses Mookie drew him in made it look like he was dancing, IIRC. He wound up in a number of animated gifs?

Either that, or his moustache reminded people of the music video.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



Mordja posted:

I'll be honest, I have no clue what's been going on these last two pages.

Nothing of consequence honestly, it's just re-establishing Snout as a Good Guy and orc dude as a Bad Guy

oriongates
Mar 14, 2013

Validate Me!




Yes, this moment...the moment where your supposed friend just went through a clearly traumatizing, likely painful and potentially life-threatening event, wrought by strangers who you can't easily communicate with...surely this moment is the best time to ask one of your few allies in the scene what this note some rear end in a top hat handed you says. A note you received before your injured friend even arrived on the scene and thus couldn't possibly be relevant to the situation at hand.

Clearly, that note is more important than the need to establish whether or not your friend is hurt, what these strangers did to her, whether she needs help or to even try and get her some clothes. Nope...instead this note is the only thing worth spending your time on. And, likewise, on IWP's part, the contents of the note are so important that it's worth screaming at the writer, ignoring the current situation entirely.

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome




I"m going to restart my recaps today. honestly life has just been getting in the way.

Expect them soon!

FlocksOfMice
Feb 3, 2009


but SNOUT LEARNED TO READ ORCISH. That was the entire point of like, the several comics before this part. Why can't Snout read a simple message now?? Or CAN he and it's just not being revealed to us what it means because we weren't clever enough to figure out the cipher and learn orcish ourself?

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



FlocksOfMice posted:

but SNOUT LEARNED TO READ ORCISH. That was the entire point of like, the several comics before this part. Why can't Snout read a simple message now?? Or CAN he and it's just not being revealed to us what it means because we weren't clever enough to figure out the cipher and learn orcish ourself?

No, you see, he learned enough to read historical textbooks, but not enough to read conversational language



And yes apparently Mookie's twitter is required reading to understand some pages because this comic is often really unclear without explanation

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.






Grimey Drawer

And this is where the "no dialogue" thing turns from "half assed and boring" to "the story is now incredibly hard to follow."

Like of course it's gonna fall down if you have a large group scene where nobody is attempting to keep the deaf lead in on the conversation. FFS just have Snout learn to lip-read or have some of them learn sign language.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



Do you think Mookie's actually devised a simple conlang for this, or is he making it up as he goes along? Like, if he can't understand any part of the note, then it should include zero words in common with those walls of text he was poring through earlier, right?

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Robot Style posted:

Do you think Mookie's actually devised a simple conlang for this, or is he making it up as he goes along? Like, if he can't understand any part of the note, then it should include zero words in common with those walls of text he was poring through earlier, right?

There is no way he put in the effort of a conlang. Maybe a few words, tops.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




If the Ink Witch got mad because presumably the note was very offensive it makes sense that it would be vocabulary Snout didn't come across while trying to translate academic texts. Everything else about the page is chaos, but I think that's a reasonable plot point.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Mors Rattus posted:

There is no way he put in the effort of a conlang. Maybe a few words, tops.

I shoved some of the words through ROT13 etc. to be sure. It's either more complex than expected or we need to brace ourselves for it to be complete gibberish.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



YF-23 posted:

If the Ink Witch got mad because presumably the note was very offensive it makes sense that it would be vocabulary Snout didn't come across while trying to translate academic texts. Everything else about the page is chaos, but I think that's a reasonable plot point.

But he wasn't just able to translate a few words of the academic texts, he was able to comprehensively understand them - and some of the texts were specifically about prejudice in orcish culture. Unless this note is a totally different dialect it's weird he doesn't understand any of it.

Would I call it a plot hole? No. But is it pretty confusing and a bit of a logical leap? I think so.

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Hence, nothing remains except our regrets.



Lipstick Apathy

Rotten Red Rod posted:

But he wasn't just able to translate a few words of the academic texts, he was able to comprehensively understand them - and some of the texts were specifically about prejudice in orcish culture. Unless this note is a totally different dialect it's weird he doesn't understand any of it.

Would I call it a plot hole? No. But is it pretty confusing and a bit of a logical leap? I think so.

It was convenient for Snout to understand those so Mookie could exposit to the audience. He wants Snout not to understand this note, so he doesn't.

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


GreenMetalSun posted:

Possibly off topic, but since the recap posts seem to have slowed/stopped, can someone fill me in on Dance Commander (?). Why was he called that?

Sure! Siegfried's dad (dance commander) is seen a handful of times in flashback doing hate crimes to some orcs. The company of Callanian knights he is leading in those panels look like they are backup dancers in the "thriller" video, and the way Mookie drew his armor made it look like he was wearing leg warmers. In addition to his mullet and big village people mustache, it made them look like a choreographed dance troupe and not a bunch of soldiers doing war crimes.

He is also a very minor character who I don't think gets a first name and like Siegfried is just referred to in the comic as lord/commander Eberbach, so people in the original mock thread(s) referred to him by his nickname of Dance Commander.

FlocksOfMice posted:

but SNOUT LEARNED TO READ ORCISH. That was the entire point of like, the several comics before this part. Why can't Snout read a simple message now?? Or CAN he and it's just not being revealed to us what it means because we weren't clever enough to figure out the cipher and learn orcish ourself?
It is total bullshit. I had assumed the backpedal Mookie's doing is that he looked up all those specific words in the orcish to common dictionary and kludged the sentence together that way, but he cannot process novel orcish language without a library to consult. Of course he's come up with an explanation that's even less satisfying.

Robot Style posted:

Do you think Mookie's actually devised a simple conlang for this, or is he making it up as he goes along? Like, if he can't understand any part of the note, then it should include zero words in common with those walls of text he was poring through earlier, right?



Orcish is just a keyboard smash. Mookie's too lazy to make a simple letter substitution cipher, so he's definitely too lazy for a conlang.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy




Soiled Meat

Orc Gul Macet managed to write something like three sentences without using the Orcish equivalent of an article or preposition. It can't even have been something like "You are a fuckwit" because Snout couldn't even pull a "[blank] are a [blank]" out of it.

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


Oh, because Snout can't make a guess to any of the words at all, so none of them is an article or preposition? That makes sense. So Mookie is saying that the word "a" changed so much from middle orcish to modern orcish that it's unrecognizable?

That means that "e" is an entire word in common. I hate this.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008



Buglord

Oh also don't forget that it's a completely different language from common despite using the same alphabet. This would be like if French people spoke French but Italian people spoke romanized Japanese.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm not a hero...





Beelzebufo posted:

I"m going to restart my recaps today. honestly life has just been getting in the way.

Expect them soon!

Bless you. Maintain your sanity, I beg of you.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009





The world's slowest story continues to have nothing happen.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




"Excuse me, you are SCARING my FUCKPET!"

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



Ah yes, they forgot all about her! The person that they've been staying up 2 nights in a row to care for and called experts in specifically to help! Why is Snout the only one that seems to care about HER feels?

No, really. Why? I know the answer, it's so Snout can be the ultimate good boy

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy




Soiled Meat

Snout, you caused this blow-up by not waiting to tattle to inkmommy.

Also, so much for respecting books.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



By the way, seems I was right:

Rotten Red Rod posted:

She has been permanently cured of her abusiveness and it will never, ever come up again.

Now she's being shellshocked instead of violent. Snout fixed her violence.

DamnitGannet
Apr 8, 2007



Boy, I sure wish Snout was writing in his journal right now because i need some loving exposition

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



Mookie's Twitter followers have some... Weird takes.



Yes. Very... Interesting. That's a word I would use to describe this.

Billy Gnosis
May 18, 2006

Now is the time for us to gather together and celebrate those things that we like and think are fun.


Rotten Red Rod posted:

Mookie's Twitter followers have some... Weird takes.



Yes. Very... Interesting. That's a word I would use to describe this.

I just noticed Mookie is the one like on this tweet that makes it worse somehow.

oriongates
Mar 14, 2013

Validate Me!




There is no way that whatever bullshit was in that note is worth this level of blow-up, especially in the current situation. But I fully expect to never find out what specifically it said and it will only be referred to as "very unpleasant" or something.

Also, I'm pretty sure beard-orc is mute at this point, given how he pointedly isn't speaking in all of these panels.

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


I bet the orc's note had some anti-deaf slur in it, and that's why inkwich is so salty. Because that's the only way Mookie knows to signal we are not supposed to like a character.

oriongates
Mar 14, 2013

Validate Me!




Invisible Clergy posted:

I bet the orc's note had some anti-deaf slur in it, and that's why inkwich is so salty. Because that's the only way Mookie knows to signal we are not supposed to like a character.

Clearly, the mute must hate the deaf...for reasons.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


I look forward to finding out all about that slur and a half dozen related ones in exhaustive detail, ideally with little pictures showing you examples of who they refer to in the cast.

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.






Grimey Drawer

And we’re back to “the Ink Witch and Arduak yell at each other and Snout tells them to shut up”.

The comic is lapping itself.

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