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oriongates
Mar 14, 2013

Validate Me!




Clearly, nothing in this scene required any form of closure. It is perfectly natural to end it with a post-it note and then skipping forward to a scene that (based on the rough distances involved) is likely 15-20 minutes later.


So...I can only assume that this was dictated...but why? If he was actually, verbally speaking, to the other people present, why would he direct his assistant to write out a version of this lengthy neg for Snout as well? Then wait around while he reads it, but not actually waiting for any kind of response from him (or anyone else? Did no one have anything to say about any of this?)



Also...is Thelonious actually going to do anything? Somehow he's managed to have less impact on the plot than Snout.

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TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

Are we gonna prove Dexter wrong by having a new person smarter and more capable than Snout take pity on him and give him all the answers.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




oriongates posted:

Clearly, nothing in this scene required any form of closure. It is perfectly natural to end it with a post-it note and then skipping forward to a scene that (based on the rough distances involved) is likely 15-20 minutes later.


So...I can only assume that this was dictated...but why? If he was actually, verbally speaking, to the other people present, why would he direct his assistant to write out a version of this lengthy neg for Snout as well? Then wait around while he reads it, but not actually waiting for any kind of response from him (or anyone else? Did no one have anything to say about any of this?)



Also...is Thelonious actually going to do anything? Somehow he's managed to have less impact on the plot than Snout.

You could make up bullshit about this being dictated out of respect for Snout and keeping him in the loop, if for no other reason than because the ink witch got mad on his behalf earlier. But of course that's made-up bullshit and the real reason is because snout is a self-insert/audience surrogate so we have to receive information through him which means it has to be written down and legible to him.

Codependent Poster
Oct 20, 2003




Why did he draw some of a border for the house on the right? Why is the sky just a white void? What time tomorrow do you want to meet at the library? Are you just gonna hang around all day to wait for him since you didn't specify a time?

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014



Hell Gem

Bismuth posted:

My maturity peaked in 8th grade



Lol.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



Man Mookie has literally never met an actual academic in his life has he.

Billy Gnosis
May 18, 2006

Now is the time for us to gather together and celebrate those things that we like and think are fun.


Captain Oblivious posted:

Man Mookie has literally never met an actual academic in his life has he.

He doesn't have to. They are evil people because they make Mookie feel dumb

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008



Buglord

Kind of like how it's really obvious that he doesn't know anyone who is deaf, and never even considered thinking about consulting a deaf person about this comic.

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Hence, nothing remains except our regrets.



Lipstick Apathy

Fister Roboto posted:

Kind of like how it's really obvious that he doesn't know anyone who is deaf, and never even considered thinking about consulting a deaf person about this comic.

Ahh, the Quiet Man problem

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements





Billy Gnosis posted:

He doesn't have to. They are evil people because they make Mookie feel dumb

This really does constantly show up, huh? That any expert in anything other than fantasy novels has to be a jerk, because only a jerk would ever imply Mookie isn't an expert at whatever caught his interest in the last half hour.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


Academics being evil fits with Mookie's MO of "anyone who works hard to obtain something is evil." Academics study for many years and go through a lot to become experts, this is bad. Truly good people already know everything there is to know magically and without the need to work for it. We saw this when Luna started working at the college, she was treated like poo poo her entire life and emotionally abused, certainly never had a formal education, and she suddenly just comes up with amazing breakthroughs in the field of magic that people studying it for years never figured out.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Twelve by Pies posted:

Academics being evil fits with Mookie's MO of "anyone who works hard to obtain something is evil." Academics study for many years and go through a lot to become experts, this is bad. Truly good people already know everything there is to know magically and without the need to work for it. We saw this when Luna started working at the college, she was treated like poo poo her entire life and emotionally abused, certainly never had a formal education, and she suddenly just comes up with amazing breakthroughs in the field of magic that people studying it for years never figured out.

This is at least partially due to him being a person whose writing is largely informed by anime tropes.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


Eh I don't know about that, most anime series that are comparable to DD have the protagonist go through training arcs and work hard to become stronger, sometimes they're given a bullshit magic power from nowhere but not usually. Like sure, Goku reached Super Saiyan just because he was mad enough to do it, but later on when it isn't strong enough to defeat Cell, he has to train for a year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to get stronger.

Dominc Deegan has none of that. Even in the War on Hell arc Dominic just went "I can be stronger" and was, like magic, without having to do anything. That almost never happens in anime.

skeleton warrior
Nov 12, 2016



Mx. posted:


the excitement continues

The completely different line weights between the foreground and the background are really throwing me, like itís two separate drawings with the foreground hastily c&ped over a background

Oh god, thatís exactly what it is, isnít it?

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


Twelve by Pies posted:

Eh I don't know about that, most anime series that are comparable to DD have the protagonist go through training arcs and work hard to become stronger, sometimes they're given a bullshit magic power from nowhere but not usually. Like sure, Goku reached Super Saiyan just because he was mad enough to do it, but later on when it isn't strong enough to defeat Cell, he has to train for a year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to get stronger.

Dominc Deegan has none of that. Even in the War on Hell arc Dominic just went "I can be stronger" and was, like magic, without having to do anything. That almost never happens in anime.

While Dragon Ball is similar in terms of intended demo being a shonen, structurally, DD has little resemblance to it. As touched on in the original threads, DD is modeled more explicitly after and lifts the basics of specific arcs from shows like "Slayers." I haven't seen it myself, but from skimming the wiki page, you can see the source of many setting elements I had assumed came from final fantasy.

Mookie just copies the art from cheap anime, not the writing. If he did, like pretty much any change, it would probably make the comic less terrible.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008



Buglord

Can't get over how much that tower looks like a dildo.

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


skeleton warrior posted:

The completely different line weights between the foreground and the background are really throwing me, like itís two separate drawings with the foreground hastily c&ped over a background

Oh god, thatís exactly what it is, isnít it?

Yep. He didn't add a foreground, just didn't draw some weeds. This is also why the most recent comic has part of a black border on the right for that panel but not the left:

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome




Chapter 17: Wrapped Up And Returned.


This is really filler chapter more than anything. It's just a handful of pages whose purpose is to set up (or rather reintroduce) all of the major antagonists and plot arcs for the rest of the comic's run. I think that this point that Mookie decided that Orc/Human dynamic was going to be what he was going to focus on.



So right off the bat we get a juvenile sex joke. Again, a man in his 20s wrote this, and all of the characters have had sex before. Mookie has a squeamishness and bashfulness around sex even in Legacy. It's just this fundamental immaturity that he can never escape. And it makes his writing about it creepier. You know Charlie, from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? Mookie is that, the grown man with his arrested development around sex that makes everything he does around it gross.



Women do be shopping, but men do too! I guess this is Mookie trying to be clever and feminist. But even in 2005 it was a pretty trite observation. Also medieval shopping malls. Fine whatever, but again speaks to the setting's lack of specificity



Time for some ham-fisted politics. In context, this is circa the midpoint of the 2nd Bush administration, so it's hard not to read this as a commentary on the border politics of the time. The one thing is though that we knoe so little about how Callan and Maltak interact, that this feels like he comes out of nowhere. Who are these immigrant orcs, and why are they in Callan? What is going on in Maltak, why do the orcs want to go back in? Why is the border sealed two ways, if the point is Callanian racism? What exactly was Dominic finding interesting about that, given the obvious bias in the reporting?




Here's some more commentary by Mookie on the common mob he has contempt for. This can only be read as commentary from Mookie's shallow liberalism on Bush's America. It makes no sense in comic at all. Why wouldn't Callan be racist? Everything about the history that we have been taught so far, everything we have seen of their culture, everything that has been established up to this point, says that Callan is full of bigotry and definitely human supremacist. This is where I find I have the most contempt for Mookie's worldview. Because it is the individualist mindset, were all these people could choose not to be racist in spite of the fact that nothing in their culture would seem to articulate that as even a possible viewpoint. Luna and Dominic and all the Deegan pals were just born not racist, unlike everyone else. So they can sit in smug judgement of the rest the world while doing actually nothing to change it, because there's nothing you can do about these bigots.



Szark comes in as even more of a clichť that he was before, and instantly starts talking about cute boys. This is where his character will be for the rest the comic.




Again, obviously about mid-2000's America. It's not even clear what sexual politics are like in Callan, since it doesn't seem like there's really all that much institutional misogyny, with Miranda among other powerful women holding extremely powerful positions within society. The Christian analog church doesn't seem to comment on it, and they have a huge sex city for gently caress's sakes. I also find it sort of funny that Mookie would even bring this up, because he never treated as a serious plot point, that Szark could face problems for his homosexuality. Like here looks like people try to get them fired, but it's not something is going to explore, it's just a funny joke. I don't begrudge Mookie not having the most progressive politics, since he was coming out of American culture too, but it just is interesting to me that Mookie would be so ham-fisted with his racism analogies, but treat homophobia with such a jokey giggling tone.



Luna's got a lot more confidence lol. even for the people who love her, literally her sole defining characteristic is how much of an insecure loser she is.

But since Mookie is run out of ideas, hey look it's Jacob!




Admittedly this is pretty metal of him, Jacob is still my favourite villain and overall character in this comic. I like that he apparently did this mostly to troll Dominic



But it's not just Jacob. Here comes TIM! So we have two of the main antagonists from Mookie's most popular and successful arc returned.



Woops, make that three! It really feels like readership has so dropped off or something, because these reproductions feel extremely hasty, like he was responding to a perceived disinterest in stores that didn't involve his wacky animu villains.



But, despite the fact that these characters are introduced like this, they will not come up as direct antagonist in the comic again until chapter 25. Jacob will come up in the next chapter as part of a big weird unfocused mess of a story at the University. But Celeste on the Inferno at her are basically missing for many many months after he teased them here. Like I said I really feel like he was trying to get people interested in his comic again.

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008

I have to believe I can do this.







Ah right, since end of Two Thief was posted I just kinda want to gripe about that for a moment. Some of the moments aren't bad in a vacuum. The resolution between Stunt and Bumper would have almost been good if Mookie didn't loving relish in his chances to put slurs in his "bad" characters' mouths.

Really though what makes me hate this arc so much is the constant one step forward one step back of Luna's arc and just the continued treatment of women and female sexuality in this comic.

Luna at this point, has already been through a fair deal of combat, usually ending with "holds her own but loses." Against Helixa at least she lost against someone ancient and very powerful.

In this arc though: She tears and builds herself up mentally in internal monologues over her competence. Beats up some henchmen who were so incompetent that they failed their previous attempts to intimidate anyone, brags about it to Dominic, then is ultimately useless against the arc villain: a thug with a necklace. Her only real contributions in this arc is the effects her presence has on the feelings of the two thieves, and ends up being saved by the person whose entire character motivation is "hates women." She then once again finishes the arc crying in Domnic's arms. In a vacuum, or if this was one of the first arcs it wouldn't bug me as much, but this was the low-stake arc after two "fate of the world" style ones.

Also more of Mookie terrible treatment of sexuality this arc: Greg wanting to show off his appearance a bit is treated as perfectly fine, and has a woman dropping any other issue to immediately fawn over him. Luna shows off a bit for Dominic and is immediately narratively punished by someone else walking in on her.

Pam, who previously spent an entire arc being abused after trying to look sexy for someone, also has someone second-sight viewing up her dress without her knowledge, treated as a joke.


edit: Also gently caress Dominic's "get back to work" bit and Mookie trying to display him as some determined hero. Half of Storm of Souls was spent with people trying to convince Dominic that the world was worth saving, and War in Hell had him gleefully uninvolved until he was forced.

Mx.
Dec 16, 2006

am i tired or am i angry





this one i like, unironically

Captain Kosmos
Mar 28, 2010

think of it like the "Who's Who" of genitals


Beelzebufo posted:



Luna's got a lot more confidence lol. even for the people who love her, literally her sole defining characteristic is how much of an insecure loser she is.

But since Mookie is run out of ideas, hey look it's Jacob!

Looks like he had some horrible accident while renovating the house.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Who the gently caress is this guy? I mean, the one on the left, not Dominic.

Mx.
Dec 16, 2006

am i tired or am i angry




is it.... is it bumper??

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007



Invisible Clergy posted:

Yep. He didn't add a foreground, just didn't draw some weeds. This is also why the most recent comic has part of a black border on the right for that panel but not the left:



lmfao

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



loving hell how do you mess up copy/pasting your own artwork that badly? Is it laziness or incompetence? Yes.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Mx. posted:

is it.... is it bumper??

Thatís Bumper, yes.

Cloacamazing!
Apr 18, 2018


It's Bumper with a makeover. He will spend 90% of the remaining comic as part of the background decoration, because his story arc is almost entirely over.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Ah, I see he took off all his distinguishing clothes.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

Now that he's ascended to level Deegan Bumper is similarly disgusted with the blatant racism of Callan. The last arc just made him a totally different character.



Or maybe like a true Deegan he prefers his racism not be as mean.

GrossMurpel
Apr 8, 2011


Why does Szark keep a hate letter with him to bring up in casual conversation

Stahlgeist
Nov 19, 2009


Beelzebufo posted:




Admittedly this is pretty metal of him, Jacob is still my favourite villain and overall character in this comic. I like that he apparently did this mostly to troll Dominic


Mookie's comedic bits with Jacob tend to be the only ones that actually land. If he had written a comic that followed Jacob taking time between his evil necromancer schemes to troll his self-righteous, uptight seer brother, that would've probably played more to his strengths. His inability to write likable heroes makes Jacob getting one over on them really satisfying.

Regalingualius
Jan 6, 2012


Yeah, a villain in the exact vein of Jacob is pretty much one of his only strengths as a writer that Iím willing to admit. Almost all of his other characters are one-note, overbearing, annoying, eye-rolling, etc.

Sure, his ďself-mutilating to gross out DominicĒ thing is also kind of one-note, but it also makes him memorable for the right reasons, for once.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




I think he's self-mutilating for Weird Necromancer Reasons, grossing out Dominic is just a bonus.

Heliotrope
Aug 17, 2007

You're fucking subhuman


Yeah he's aware Dominic is going to see this because it's important so he uses that to gently caress with him. It's actually a funny moment to me.

Riot Bus
Jan 8, 2020


Yeah, for necromancers, ripping their skin off makes them more powerful for some reason. Because skin is the opposite of death.

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome






Snout is a great protagonist. I love protagonists who constantly just cannot deal with, like, the whole situation, and just need some time to themselves.


Just making GBS threads in nature, thinking his thoughts.....

Bismuth
Jun 10, 2010

the belly button hungers

Hell Gem

Beelzebufo posted:



Snout is a great protagonist. I love protagonists who constantly just cannot deal with, like, the whole situation, and just need some time to themselves.


Just making GBS threads in nature, thinking his thoughts.....

I really appreciate that mookie cant figure out how to really emote with snout's face at all, he always just looks vaguely concerned/confused. Also he really does look like hes hovering over the ground in a squat

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm not a hero...





OVER
WHELMED

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story



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Captain Kosmos
Mar 28, 2010

think of it like the "Who's Who" of genitals



Just realized, is he supposed to be sitting on the hill?

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