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Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



That's entirely possible.

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Mx.
Dec 16, 2006

am i tired or am i angry





I bought so many people likpavatars and it is always good to see em

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy




Soiled Meat

The Open Hand is the order of monks that Slappy McGee belongs to.

It's like naming your martial art 'Knifehand Chop'

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



PoptartsNinja posted:

The Open Hand is the order of monks that Slappy McGee belongs to.

It's like naming your martial art 'Knifehand Chop'

Either way I think he just ripped it off from D&D

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jul 14, 2021

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy




Soiled Meat

That's like 85% of Dominic Deegan right there. "What character class is Mookie currently playing? Oh, a Monk? Cool."

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007



"Way of the Open Hand" is straight up the name of a D&D Monk subclass. :psyduck:

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!



Laughable to try and imply that Snout is guiding anything by being a pathetic little worm of a man that has to be coddled by everyone around him.

I think this is the first Iím hearing that Pam became queen after the Deegan Coup. I wonder how that looked to random citizens who, from their perspective, saw their democratically elected monarch violently toppled by a family of Ubermages who proceeded to place all their closest friends and family into positions of power.

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome




The laziest of callbacks

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


they world

TheHan posted:

I wonder how that looked to random citizens who, from their perspective, saw their democratically elected monarch violently toppled by a family of Ubermages who proceeded to place all their closest friends and family into positions of power.

I was around for the end of Deegan and I only remember it vaguely, it'll be a while before we get to it in the retrospect. I do remember a bunch of characters flying at King Dave's castle for a huge anime style final battle, I don't know if Dominic did a mass SEE THE TRUTH on the townspeople, or if King Dave just loudly announced his evil villain status because he thought he was far too powerful to be stopped, or if the Beast just appeared and showed the townspeople that their king was serviing an evil spaghetti eyeball.

I'm sure that what actually happened is far stupider than what I'm thinking though.

Billy Gnosis
May 18, 2006

Now is the time for us to gather together and celebrate those things that we like and think are fun.



That typo is the extra cherry on this poo poo sundae. Typed out words in his comic that he couldn't be assed to even proofread.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


He clearly doesn't give a gently caress about how he draws or how he comes up with the plot or how he creates characters so why would he give a gently caress about the words he writes?

You know, the words he writes in this comic with no dialog.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



So the world is better. Everything is fine and going great. There's really nothing the supposed villains can do to threaten Snout or any of the other protagonists. This comic really will be nothing other than Mookie fellating himself.

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

But Nemo, I am Pagliacci

I almost scolled past that new page thinking someone had just re-posted the previous one for whatever reason

Mx.
Dec 16, 2006

am i tired or am i angry




No dialogue, baby

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


TheHan posted:

I think this is the first Iím hearing that Pam became queen after the Deegan Coup. I wonder how that looked to random citizens who, from their perspective, saw their democratically elected monarch violently toppled by a family of Ubermages who proceeded to place all their closest friends and family into positions of power.
It's the first that it's been mentioned. It was not in Deegan Classic. As mentioned in Snowsong, she was basically relegated to background extra status after this and never did anything of consequence again.

I'm sure that they said it was a real good thing Dominic did and acted like they thought it too, because if he suspected otherwise, he would send them to the cornfield like he did with their beloved King Dave.

Twelve by Pies posted:

I was around for the end of Deegan and I only remember it vaguely, it'll be a while before we get to it in the retrospect. I do remember a bunch of characters flying at King Dave's castle for a huge anime style final battle, I don't know if Dominic did a mass SEE THE TRUTH on the townspeople, or if King Dave just loudly announced his evil villain status because he thought he was far too powerful to be stopped, or if the Beast just appeared and showed the townspeople that their king was serviing an evil spaghetti eyeball.

I'm sure that what actually happened is far stupider than what I'm thinking though.
The unrestricted free press that the horrible tyrant Dave allowed to operate in his territory was already openly critical of him and began intimating that he was bargaining with demons from hell prior to Dominic killing him with his last-ever casting of "gently caress YOU SEE THE TRUTH." So presumably for John Q. Public, they instantly changed their mind the second they saw that Deegan-approved article published in the newspaper after he butted heads with the beast-infected cattlebasters at the art gallery.

As usual, you're putting more thought into it than Mookie did. I don't think Callanian public reaction to their democratically elected absolute monarch being assassinated was addressed at all.

Best as I can recall, Dominic and co go to Dave's castle, they fight, Celesto does all the work of actually wearing Dave down so he's weakened enough to kill, dies so Dominic can take all the credit, and Dominic cherry taps him with see the truth and also kills the Beast somehow.

Them installing Pam as a puppet dictator is new information, though. That said, it's perfectly in character for the Deegans to continue their nepotism and put a small-town mayor in charge of running the entire kingdom of Callan. I wonder if they bothered with a democratic election or ever allowed one again. I wonder who's ruling Callan now.

Trapezium Dave
Oct 22, 2012



Pam is depicted as universally likeable by ordinary people so I could see her winning the election on her own merits, the problem is how a Queen Pam maintains that position when the entire Callan ruling caste are depicted as murderous power hungry bastards.

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008

I have to believe I can do this.







Was there even a real reason given why he was even doing the poo poo he did with the spaghetti monster? Dave was already the most powerful mage in existence on top of being a king. He was literally powerful enough that he had the other 5 most powerful mages simultaneously under mind controlling spells for decades.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



Iím still struggling with how utterly terrible this is as any kind of history text. Has he never read an actual history book

a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011



in theory there's a kernel of an interesting story there. in a story where knowledge is literal power you have an easy conflict between freedom of information and the fantasy equivalent of gun control/disarmament. the redactor's faction would actually have an understandable motivation for wanting to restrict information when history shows nations going full scorched earth with relative ease, and we'd be asked to wonder if the ink witch properly understands the lengths of her ideals if they could mean a return to spell violence, to horribly strain this metaphor some more.

unfortunately terraciano loves his moral absolutism, so the bad guys will hoard knowledge because they love power and being evil, and we're not supposed to question how magic can be "irrevocably altered" by a small group of people without another group later just altering it again

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017



TheHan posted:



Laughable to try and imply that Snout is guiding anything by being a pathetic little worm of a man that has to be coddled by everyone around him.

I think this is the first Iím hearing that Pam became queen after the Deegan Coup. I wonder how that looked to random citizens who, from their perspective, saw their democratically elected monarch violently toppled by a family of Ubermages who proceeded to place all their closest friends and family into positions of power.

Seers of the past "uncovered schemes" is absolute horseshit. There was no uncovering of any sort. Dominic's visions told him exactly the information he needed. He didn't have to do any work deciphering his visions using context clues or anything.

Also I guess this confirms Prento and his classmates were the ones who changed everyone's magic to become "softer". gently caress you, Mookie. You really can't let your self-insert cause any wrongdoing.

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome




Chapter 20: The Shadow of Siegfried - Part Two



So, with Milov having just symbolically murdered Jaden, instantly the focus shifts to how Jaden is really the one at fault. I will say I hate how Milov frames his violent attack as a "lack of control". It's such a stereotypical excuse for this kind of violence. Just absolving the man of agency and responsibility in the act.

One thing I want to point out here too is that Jayden expresses that this is an almost unforgivable betrayal, before the narrative establishes that cheating is an ur-sin in "werewolf culture". In fact very little time is spent establishing the rules werewolf culture prior to this point, other than their insularity. I point this out because everything that is happening in this narrative is under Mookie's control, and I hate it when fans of the work will defend problematic elements by stating that there is an in universe explanation for it. I don't think anyone in this thread would do it, but I remember at the time people defended Milov's response by referencing the explanation Mookie will provide, as if that could justify this arc in the first place. It doesn't, and the fact that Mookie only goes about justifying this response after this big emotional moment shows that this is really what he was after.




This strip on its own is fine, except for being part of this narrative. But it's followed by...



This strip! I really cannot fathom Mookie's need to undercut any drama or genuine emotion in his comic with these jokey asides with the worst side character in the world. Of course, even though Dominic's sin is tiny in comparison to the apparent magnitude of what Jayden did (just look at the description she gives here), Dominic can still get to feel bad and have a little bit of pathos about betraying a friend without facing any real consequences.



And see, right into to pure comedy for the weekend strip. Though I will say it is noticeable clear that once again the joke is "teehee nudity".



Here's another strip where Mookie is trying to juxtapose two conversations together like you would in a TV show. Again I don't think it really works, and makes the conversations feel a little disjointed. But yes here's where we learn that Nimmel isn't just a student who was accepted into the prestigious Coldfire Academy, but in fact the first human or foreigner to be ever accepted at all! For something that was introduced as an aside in a previous trip, it's funny how unique and singular this privilege that Nimmel is getting is. One wonders how he even managed to organize it, if this wasn't a normal thing to happen. It's not built up as a special exchange or diplomatic efforts or anything.

Also, Luna, always keeping the most important thing in view, of course immediately reverts to feeling bad about herself and what she said, so that Dominic can comfort her about her loyalty to the friend that she has instantly stopped thinking about. And apparently left alone? That's cold, Luna.




Milov is a drama queen.



To start with, just a little thing, but I hate that Nimmel knows that part of the house is blown apart in the first panel there. There's no establishing shot saying that they were near the house, no indication of where they travelled or how far they are from the city that they were just in, and no indication that he noticed it prior to the howl. Itís these little moments that Mookie does that make his world feel fake. Just a little bit more establishing time, a little bit more thinking about where and how these characters are interacting, would help a lot in removing the feeling that all of this is a stage play with all the supporting cast standing just off panel.

That's a lot of information to communicate with one howl when you think about it




Nimmel, being a Deegan surrogate, of course becomes immediately judgmental of this culture that he is entering, and gets caught up in his own stupid melodrama instead of making any attempt to understand the gravity of the situation. The heir to Luna if there ever was one. Clock the use of nudist as an insult here too. There's just something so Freudian about every interaction with sex in this comic



The dialogue is ham-handed, but I don't hate this explanation as to why Jayden would start being attracted to Siegfried. There's probably a good YA romance love triangle in this story, if it was not being written by Mookie. I don't think writing about infidelity needs to inherently be misogynistic or patriarchal in its framing. But, it's the little things that make this story problematic. First, Milov is of course blameless and perfect in every way, despite coming from a culture that apparently tolerates and even celebrates violence. Of course, he must be perfectly blameless and a perfect gentleman up to this point, even with his sudden homicidal rage. Second, the invocation of the bad boy nice guy trope by Luna, which is tired and clichťd...



Third, the general framing of giving in to temptation, which is applied to jayden but not to Siegfried. You'll see in a strip of the later on, that Jayden believes that she lead Siegfried astray, exactly reproducing the tropes of the wicked seductress and the very common misogynistic belief that women's sexuality exists to corrupt and entrap men. Old-school St. Augustine poo poo here.

I don't know what's happening in that last panel there but it doesn't look like a very comfortable position



Unable to maintain focus for more than two strips, Mookie yet again shifts to spark with the sight gag so old and terrible the Looney Tunes wouldn't run it



And then makes it even worse by referencing it in the next strip as if it was a serious event that could have had consequences. I don't know what the PFFT joke is supposed to be about.



Katya at least does not fly into a murderous rage, so I'm more willing to accept her apology. Itís a little rude, but as far as werewolves go, I think she probably has the best way of expressing her anger.

I will say that at this point I think some rules as to how this spectre is able to manifest would be good for us to understand the stakes of his appearance. So far it's just been gruesome visions, but with some of the action to follow, it's very unclear how literal were supposed to be taking any of it



See? Are those actual blows that Milov is landing? Is he punching the air, or the walls of his house? Or this purely happening as head? No way to know



This will be an extended sequence of these sort of weird experimental strips here. And I have to say I don't hate them as an idea. It was genuinely a new thing to try so kudos to Mookie for that. But I will say that much like the demons in the war in hell, this whole sequence exists to confront Milov with a truth he is avoiding, that he did break his promise to Jayden that he would never hurt her, and was violent in the way that he should consider dishonourable. And just like in the war in hell, instead of facing up to his truth, Milov will be rescued by Dominic who will absolve Milov of his sins and tell him that all of his negative feelings was just a demon playing with his emotions



I love how corny that dialogue is. That's the best Mookie can think up with for how Siegfried seduced Jayden.



Yes, that is indeed Dominic's scarf breaking through like a Beetlejuice worm. Much like an Elder God, his signs appear before he does.



Thank goodness Dominic was here to save the day and prevent Milov from thinking at all about what he has done.

Mookie sure does love these power poses for Dominic, just standing in total dominance over the puny owner of the mindscape heís in. This will reach its natural, again very Freudian, apex with this strip:



Which Iím just going to leave here without further context.



I hate these little moments of suffering on Dominic's part, because there obviously meant to elicit sympathy from us, to show the pain and effort that Dominic is putting himself through help his friends. But none of it is earned. Every time it's just Dominic manifesting an all-powerful psychic avatar in the other person's mindscape, and manipulating reality however he wants to. The fact that he gets a nosebleed in the real world doesn't change the absurdity of the power level Dominic is working on, which he apparently earned by being a nerd in high school. What stakes are there to any of this if Dominic can just purge Siegfried?




I guess were supposed to understand that Milov went from his family compound back to the conclave or whatever between panels six and seven. And more nonsense generalities about loyalty and betrayal, with no further examination as to what a society with this strict rule code would actually be like.




See, what exactly is Milov supposed to show loyalty to in this context? Mookie's characterizations of other cultures is so boring. First he undercuts drama by get again having jokey asides, and then because he identified loyalty as being the most important thing to werewolves, Milov also has to "show loyalty", because everything in their culture revolves around that one concept. Not even "face" or honour, it has to be loyalty again.

Get ready for the most awful part of this arc!



Here's what I was talking about earlier, Jayden gets straight up assaulted by Katya, with I'm sure Mookie thinking it can be forgiven because they were both women. Again look at the viciousness with which he draws Katya breaking Jayden's nose, and the language she uses which is obviously Mookie using her as a mouthpiece. The pulling up by the hairs also very visceral and terrible as an image.



Here's where he doubles down on the problematic weird poo poo. The canonical explanation for why Katya did what she did, and the reason why she will get away with it, is because she is literally mentally handicapped and is therefore prone to violence. I know the framing is not at all mentally handicapped people are violent, that he's physically saying only this very specific type of mental handicap because it, but given that a slur that will be used against Katya in "A Nimmel House" is "Runtard", the parallel Mookie's drawing is obvious.

Mookie loves invoking this idea of uncontrollable rage as somehow primal and true, as a way of excusing the violence itself. Here, Jayden even says that she is inviting this violence are self as penance. That's a hosed up thing for a character to say.

I do find it funny that one of Mookie's obvious avourite fantasy cultures in his setting once again proves to be horrifying in some way that should be really unconscionable to the characters, but no one will mention it. Killing disabled children at birth! The Werewolves are just as the best!

Of course the idea loyalty is once again raised up.



It wouldn't be s Luna and Nimmel moment with at least one of them reminding the audience about all the baggage these characters have.



Again, classic Luna dialogue, where her emotional fragility has to be front and centre, and the only thing that matters about her character, even after all the growth she really should've gone through by this point. I like how this is about to be a tender moment between Luna and Jayden, but the focus has to be on Luna's failures and not on Jaydenís suffering, even though she is the ostensible focal point of this arc.



We now learn that apparently Milov is the one who founded the Magic school Nimmel is going to. Milov, like every Mookie proxy, must immediately be elevated beyond being a normal good guy, to become a singular exemplar for their people. Everything good emanates from them. Any flaws they may bring up are instantly dismissed, the very act of bringing up the flaw being itself a sign of humility. It's excruciating. Also I love that Milov "benefiting his family" (let's generously assume this means his broader clan) is just listed as an unqualified good by Nimmel. As it was welcoming the evangelical Luanian church. Both of these could reasonably be places where maybe there could be some disagreement as to whether or not Nimmel was the greatest, but of course Mookie won't examine that.



Mookie interrupts his heavy-handed drama for yet more terrible puns. Of course Luna and Nimmel together instantly revert to their codependent sadsack ways and commiserate over their shared shitiness.

This is also the seriousness with which Mookie treats a character like Siegfried's fall from grace. You can really tell that he hated revisiting this. We were just supposed to accept Siegfried as deserving of hell.



A perfect cliffhanger to leave this review on, what follows is a whole ton more psychoplane nonsense. Nice Russian alcoholic joke there, Mookie.

Ague Proof
Jun 5, 2014

they told me
I was everything


a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011



i'm gonna ignore all the obvious creepy bullshit for now just to ask: wasn't the whole alpha wolf bullshit already on its way out by the time that comic was written? or did that happen later?

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008

I have to believe I can do this.







Also don't worry about that contextless future panel folks. It's from an arc very shortly following this one!

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018



a cartoon duck posted:

i'm gonna ignore all the obvious creepy bullshit for now just to ask: wasn't the whole alpha wolf bullshit already on its way out by the time that comic was written? or did that happen later?

Among scientists? Yes, absolutely.

Among people? We're still dealing with that.

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007



Beelzebufo posted:




Here's where he doubles down on the problematic weird poo poo. The canonical explanation for why Katya did what she did, and the reason why she will get away with it, is because she is literally mentally handicapped and is therefore prone to violence. I know the framing is not at all mentally handicapped people are violent, that he's physically saying only this very specific type of mental handicap because it, but given that a slur that will be used against Katya in "A Nimmel House" is "Runtard", the parallel Mookie's drawing is obvious.

Ffffffuuuuuuuck I completely forgot about this :gonk:

Emrikol
Sep 30, 2015


It's funny that we're having this bit about how everyone is now free from prophesy immediately after establishing that Snout's whole journey was foreseen and facilitated by Dominic, but as with basically everything in this comic, I'm not sure Mookie's aware of it.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

TheHan posted:



Laughable to try and imply that Snout is guiding anything by being a pathetic little worm of a man that has to be coddled by everyone around him.

I think this is the first Iím hearing that Pam became queen after the Deegan Coup. I wonder how that looked to random citizens who, from their perspective, saw their democratically elected monarch violently toppled by a family of Ubermages who proceeded to place all their closest friends and family into positions of power.

So all the problems are already solved

Why the gently caress are we here

Howard Beale
Feb 22, 2001

It's like this, Peanut



You just made this DD hatereader a very happy puppy.

Emrikol
Sep 30, 2015


Maxwell Lord posted:

So all the problems are already solved

Why the gently caress are we here

I think Dominic figured out a way to basically continue having visions via dreams, which is what lead Snout off on this search for his book on lucid dreaming.

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007



So uh what happened to ink witch and corpsemom?

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


Zerilan posted:

Was there even a real reason given why he was even doing the poo poo he did with the spaghetti monster? Dave was already the most powerful mage in existence on top of being a king. He was literally powerful enough that he had the other 5 most powerful mages simultaneously under mind controlling spells for decades.
King Dave, like all the antagonists in Deegan, achieved his status through determination and hard work. He was born a beggar and studied to improve his magic and join the royal knights. At some point, he had a vision where he glimpsed the far realm where the beast lived. This blinded him, but while he was there, he made a deal with the beast to get a huge mana boost in exchange for... actually it's never mentioned. Presumably letting the beast destroy the world. A natural consequence of Mookie ripping off "Full Metal Alchemist" without understanding anything about the story.

Roman Reigns posted:

So uh what happened to ink witch and corpsemom?
They could be wandering around orcville. They could be exploring other areas of the library. They could in fact be sitting at this selfsame table with Snout and will lean in form off panel as though they'd been there the whole time. Since Mookie treats the confines of the panel as what the characters can see, there is no way to know for sure. It may well be months before we see either of them again.

Douche Wolf 89
Dec 9, 2010





It's admirable how Mookie challenges himself to draw clothes that fold and deform in different positions. I think Snout's "DEAF" patch may be imbued with ink magic to always read legibly, it's a cool detail.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Beelzebufo posted:




A perfect cliffhanger to leave this review on, what follows is a whole ton more psychoplane nonsense. Nice Russian alcoholic joke there, Mookie.


Roman Reigns posted:

So uh what happened to ink witch and corpsemom?
And Arudak. They all get pooted out of the inkship, entered town together, and apparently walked directly to the library.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

Beelzebufo posted:



Katya at least does not fly into a murderous rage, so I'm more willing to accept her apology. Itís a little rude, but as far as werewolves go, I think she probably has the best way of expressing her anger.

I will say that at this point I think some rules as to how this spectre is able to manifest would be good for us to understand the stakes of his appearance. So far it's just been gruesome visions, but with some of the action to follow, it's very unclear how literal were supposed to be taking any of it

I know this page comes hot on the heels of Supergreg, but I really enjoy how Mookie's got this magical werewolf headmaster patriarch and he puts him in a one window shack with a Lay-Z-Boy recliner and a Hawaiian shirt.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



Invisible Clergy posted:

King Dave, like all the antagonists in Deegan, achieved his status through determination and hard work. He was born a beggar and studied to improve his magic and join the royal knights. At some point, he had a vision where he glimpsed the far realm where the beast lived. This blinded him, but while he was there, he made a deal with the beast to get a huge mana boost in exchange for... actually it's never mentioned. Presumably letting the beast destroy the world. A natural consequence of Mookie ripping off "Full Metal Alchemist" without understanding anything about the story.

His goal iirc was that there was a whole Sozin's Comet thing going on where magic ebbs and flows and only one race has the lions share of magical power at a time. The cycle was supposed to flow from Callan/Humans to Maltak/The Orcs next, King Dave was a human supremacist who believed that by working with the Beast he could stop the cycle from...cycling, basically. Human supremacy forever.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




Beelzebufo posted:

Get ready for the most awful part of this arc!


This is a good time to remember that, when mookie wants to write evil characters getting punished, but thinks the punishment they deserve is too violent for the good guys to deliver, he has that task relegated to a third party. This isn't quite the same as when it happened in Star Power with the guy that got sent to robot alien court, or Celesto blowing up the jock for the crime of being a jock, but it's very ugly to see the same narrative beat play out like this, especially when he already had Milov graphically murder a Jayden illusion.

quote:



Wait, was there any mention of Luna and Jayden knowing each other as kids before? I completely forget.

Heliotrope
Aug 17, 2007

You're fucking subhuman


YF-23 posted:

Wait, was there any mention of Luna and Jayden knowing each other as kids before? I completely forget.

Yeah it came up when Jayden was first introduced, and a couple of times after that.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009




Dune manse?

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GreenMetalSun
Oct 11, 2012


If betrayal is literally the worst sin possible on wolf peninsula, I legit do not see how Milov isn't also guilty for murdering his mate/wife based on literally no hard evidence.

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