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FrozenVent posted:Unlike Grover, I don’t abuse my power on the people who disagree with me. Well, you should. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 2, 2023 00:47
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Flikken posted:Well, you should. Yeah what's the point of a petty dictatorship if you aren't oppressing your enemies and regarding your sycophants?  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 2, 2023 01:08
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You have to have personality in order to have sycophants (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 2, 2023 01:17
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CainFortea posted:You have to have personality in order to have sycophants I mean… yeah. Being a lurker here even back then, at least Grover had a personality. Not saying it was a likable one. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 2, 2023 01:24
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Grover might have been a crappy code inspector, but he had some amazingly uncanny predictions for the Iraq War. Say what you will, he should have been an O-6 in Military Intelligence.
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Jun 2, 2023 01:42
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Uncanny as in a fitting subject for this thread yes
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Jun 2, 2023 01:52
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I always felt more sorry for grover than anything. He was an engineer, they can't help it. They practically get issued dumb opinions with their degree. I think all of us have bitten off more than we can chew on a project at some point. Grover just decided to transcend normal, mortal limitations when he did
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Jun 2, 2023 03:23
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He’s a PE, biting off more than they can chew and trying to power through it is basically their religion.
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Jun 2, 2023 03:38
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The more interact with engineers the more I realize that smart people are actually really loving dumb. Or, rather, engineers and nerds have coped with being bullied nonstop by creating little pockets of fellow engineers, who then all agree with each other that they're the smartest. There are no bullies to naturally cull the size of the nerd-herd. Much like yellowstone and wolves, we must reintroduce bullies into their environments.
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Jun 2, 2023 04:36
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Wrr posted:Much like yellowstone and wolves, we must reintroduce bullies into their environments. My mother used to share stories from her middle school teaching days and I remember one where she said this one kid clearly never bathed (probably became a goon at some point  ) and my response to her was that cases like that are where bullying has a constructive application.It's a conscious decision to not bathe for such a lengthy period of time that someone generates a field of putrid miasma around them that instantly causes you to reflexively smell yourself in that moment of horror that, however unlikely, that it might be you who smells that awful. It's not bullying to goad that person into taking better care of themselves through societal and social demerit. There are correct ways of going about it that don't demean the kid, but it's herd mentality. The kid didn't have a BO disorder, he was just a middle-schooler who hit puberty and his parents obviously didn't have the desire or wherewithal to make him bathe, and the kid just embraced laziness with regards to self-care, the same way DIs handle it when a kid gets to boot camp smelling like a malfunctioning sewage plant.
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Jun 2, 2023 05:21
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I've got some really bad news about why kids might employ "smelling bad" as a defensive strategy.
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Jun 2, 2023 07:00
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I wouldn’t call it “bullying”, but yes, peer pressure is a powerful force.
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Jun 2, 2023 07:07
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Oh, here we go, let's hear it from the "I was bullied and I turned out fine" (actually you didn't turn out fine) brigade.
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Jun 2, 2023 07:18
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Let's not.
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Jun 2, 2023 07:21
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mllaneza posted:I've got some really bad news about why kids might employ "smelling bad" as a defensive strategy.
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Jun 2, 2023 07:34
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mllaneza posted:I've got some really bad news about why kids might employ "smelling bad" as a defensive strategy.
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Jun 2, 2023 08:36
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mllaneza posted:I've got some really bad news about why kids might employ "smelling bad" as a defensive strategy. I hate that I arrived at that conclusion before I got to your post, too.
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Jun 2, 2023 12:27
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BIG HEADLINE posted:and my response to her was that cases like that are where bullying has a constructive application. So, is it bullying or not? Your argument isn't very persuasive when it contradicts itself so quickly.
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Jun 2, 2023 12:31
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it is extremely possible to indicate to someone that they're behaving unacceptably without bullying them and punching down at a child who is obviously having some kind of problem is a garbage thing to do bullying is only acceptable (and in fact encouraged) when you are punching up, i.e., making a bigot feel unwanted
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Jun 2, 2023 13:01
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Wrr posted:The more interact with engineers the more I realize that smart people are actually really loving dumb. You see a similar thing in doctors, wherein they're both groups filled with (presumably) well educated, well trained people in their specific fields. The problem is that somehow translates into a sort of hubris where they believe that means they're smart about everything and can't be wrong. It happens all over the place, though - look at how many technical companies have been ruined by MBAs (Boeing, HP) because they made engineering decisions in the pursuit of lowering costs/rushing products to market. Most successful people could do with a little more humility.
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Jun 2, 2023 13:07
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Wrr posted:There are no bullies to naturally cull the size of the nerd-herd. Sales and the powers-that-be who listen primarily to sales making us work on the impossible/improbable instead of what we want is a force dynamic that exists.
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Jun 2, 2023 15:02
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Flikken posted:Well, you should. Thank you for listening to me.
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Jun 2, 2023 15:21
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Shooting Blanks posted:You see a similar thing in doctors, wherein they're both groups filled with (presumably) well educated, well trained people in their specific fields. The problem is that somehow translates into a sort of hubris where they believe that means they're smart about everything and can't be wrong. It happens all over the place, though - look at how many technical companies have been ruined by MBAs (Boeing, HP) because they made engineering decisions in the pursuit of lowering costs/rushing products to market. Most successful people could do with a little more humility. Yeah, I have worked both as a postdoc in a STEM academic setting and as an offshore oil-and-gas worker and I think I ran into more complete and utter idiots in the university than I did on the boat. I think one of the issue in STEM in particular is that it trains people in one particular type of problem solving, develops one particular type of intelligence, tells people that this approach is applicable to every situation that could possibly exist, and denigrates any other type of intelligence or problem solving as "soft" or "inferior" or "magical thinking" (if it even acknowledges them at all). You end up with kind of a more sophisticated version of the "I am enlightened by my own intelligence" types who think they are essentially better than everyone else and that they are uniquely-suited to solving all of the world's problems.
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Jun 2, 2023 15:35
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It all comes down to the parable of the engineers and the antenna. These three engineers are trying to figure out how tall an antenna mast is. One guy figures out the time of day, angle of the sun and measures the shadow. Another guy hooks up a barometer to a drone and sends it up. The third guy’s not sure what to do, but a technician walks by and asks him what he’s trying to do. He explains, the technician shrugs, pulls out a wrench and drops the mast to the ground. Pulls out a tape measure, measure the antenna. Engineer smirks smugly and goes “thanks, but I ask for the height of the antenna, not the length.”
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Jun 2, 2023 16:05
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A_Bluenoser posted:Yeah, I have worked both as a postdoc in a STEM academic setting and as an offshore oil-and-gas worker and I think I ran into more complete and utter idiots in the university than I did on the boat. The way my father put it was "Never confuse a degree with an education."
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Jun 2, 2023 16:54
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Phanatic posted:The way my father put it was "Never confuse a degree with an education." My dad always loved to mutter about college graduates whenever they did something dumb. He was a draftsman and got a request from a young engineer once to place a 4" pipe somewhere. Dad: Okay, is that ID or OD? Engineer: What do you mean?
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Jun 2, 2023 18:01
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I saw a Primary Care who was a former Army Doctor, and Paratrooper. Amazing doctor, loved the guy. "Bulletsponge, Doctors aren't smart. They are nearly always stupid with very specialized knowledge they think matters."
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Jun 2, 2023 18:20
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Explosionface posted:My dad always loved to mutter about college graduates whenever they did something dumb. This highlights an import gap that's particularly noticeable with engineering but present to an extent in STEM that deals with the physical world. There are a lot of classes engineering curricula that are all books and equations but comparatively few opportunities to build a Thing or even better, work on an existing Thing.
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Jun 2, 2023 18:32
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FrozenVent posted:Unlike Grover, I don’t abuse my power on the people who disagree with me. ok grover (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 2, 2023 19:53
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FrozenVent posted:It all comes down to the parable of the engineers and the antenna. I don't get it
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Jun 2, 2023 20:02
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lightpole posted:I don't get it Are you an engineer?
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Jun 2, 2023 20:11
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Shooting Blanks posted:You see a similar thing in doctors, wherein they're both groups filled with (presumably) well educated, well trained people in their specific fields. The problem is that somehow translates into a sort of hubris where they believe that means they're smart about everything and can't be wrong. It happens all over the place, though - look at how many technical companies have been ruined by MBAs (Boeing, HP) because they made engineering decisions in the pursuit of lowering costs/rushing products to market. Most successful people could do with a little more humility. There are some professions where education and training beat independent thinking out of people. Often this is a good thing because doing things by the book works. Sometimes it leads to some really weird places though.
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Jun 2, 2023 20:22
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Grip it and rip it posted:Are you an engineer? I'm a chief engineer Platystemon posted:There are some professions where education and training beat independent thinking out of people. The purpose of an undergraduate education should be to establish foundational principles of the world but too often people forget that in the process of defining complexity and ambiguity, things are simplified. At some point lateral thinking, and those equations and assumptions we use to define the world, break down and catching it when they do is extremely difficult.
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Jun 2, 2023 20:30
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lightpole posted:I don't get it When you turn the mast sideways, its height is now whatever the width was before, and what used to be the height is now the length.
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Jun 2, 2023 20:38
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Arsenic Lupin posted:When you turn the mast sideways, its height is now whatever the width was before, and what used to be the height is now the length. I think I get it. The engineer should have just measured the width of the mast cause that would be the height when it was laying down
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Jun 2, 2023 20:49
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What? With a technician right there to do it for him?
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Jun 2, 2023 20:53
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What if the third engineer is secretly the smartest one because he got a technician to do all the work for him?
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Jun 2, 2023 21:27
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Platystemon posted:There are some professions where education and training beat independent thinking out of people. Sort of. There are professions where regulations and certifications require a specific education, the combination of which is designed to beat independent thinking out of people. You don't want engineers taking shortcuts or innovating too hard when they design bridges, as an example. There are plenty of other professions and professional areas where innovation and evolution of ideas are a good thing. Engineering and medicine just aren't two of them.
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Jun 2, 2023 21:28
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bird food bathtub posted:What if the third engineer is secretly the smartest one because he got a technician to do all the work for him? There is a reason "lift with your deck hands, not your back" is a saying
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Jun 2, 2023 21:35
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This certainly is the idiots' thread.
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Jun 2, 2023 21:51
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