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Yeah, I'm genuinely enjoying how, despite the premise being "terrorists take a bunch of schoolchildren hostage", the "rescuers"/SSS are portrayed as being more and more villainous while the terrorists/Red Circus are portrayed as being more and more sympathetic. Not the kind of thing I expect in shonen manga.
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Dec 25, 2022 21:44
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I'm stretching my memory here but the name Red Circus and their description absolutely has to be a reference to something real but I just can't remember.
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Dec 25, 2022 21:52
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Fabricated posted:I'm stretching my memory here but the name Red Circus and their description absolutely has to be a reference to something real but I just can't remember. They appear to be strongly inspired by the West German Red Army Faction in their history and ideology, in-keeping with Ostania being a repressive capitalist state rather than a communist one like East Germany.
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Dec 25, 2022 21:57
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Darth Walrus posted:They appear to be strongly inspired by the West German Red Army Faction in their history and ideology, in-keeping with Ostania being a repressive capitalist state rather than a communist one like East Germany. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 22:02
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Fabricated posted:There's a specific group that was exactly like the one the Red Circus guy's daughter was from. It was a student group that started as a peaceful protest group and then basically got murdered by the state. I think you got it but I'm remembering a different name and it's driving me nuts- the group I'm trying to remember never fully radicalized into violence and pretty much got entirely killed. Any chance you're thinking of the Red Circle from either Riverdale or Archie comics?
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Dec 25, 2022 23:01
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Might be thinking of Benno Ohnesorg as that was part of the German student protest movement that the RAF came out of.
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Dec 26, 2022 00:04
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it's not exactly an uncommon scenario.
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Dec 26, 2022 00:19
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Fabricated posted:There's a specific group that was exactly like the one the Red Circus guy's daughter was from. It was a student group that started as a peaceful protest group and then basically got murdered by the state. I think you got it but I'm remembering a different name and it's driving me nuts- the group I'm trying to remember never fully radicalized into violence and pretty much got entirely killed. Are you thinking of the anti-Nazi protest group the White Rose? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose
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Dec 26, 2022 01:42
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K Prime posted:Are you thinking of the anti-Nazi protest group the White Rose?
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Dec 26, 2022 03:08
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tsob posted:She's getting another Stella then? Give her ten Stellas if she manages to take out the SSS cops while saving her classmates.
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Dec 26, 2022 03:23
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I suspect we'll soon get a reminder that Henderson can throw a hell of a punch.
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Dec 26, 2022 03:28
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Jesus, those first few panels were dark. This series knows when not to pull its punches. Glad Yuri was useful and cool for a sec. Also, glad he got hurt and is crying.
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Dec 26, 2022 15:03
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Desumaytah posted:Jesus, those first few panels were dark.
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Dec 27, 2022 01:40
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Carpator Diei posted:And Anya saw all of that. I'm sure she'd get something out of it, but at 4, 5 or 6 (whichever age she actually is) she's not gonna get the full context of why his memories are bad so it's probably not quite as traumatic as it seems for her. It does ensure she'll see him as sympathetic, and may be able to convince Yuri or someone later to go easy on him because of it by claiming she overheard something or what have you, but I doubt it's the kind of thing that'll live in her head for years afterwards at the same time.
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Dec 27, 2022 02:24
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Lt. Lizard posted:Yeah, I'm genuinely enjoying how, despite the premise being "terrorists take a bunch of schoolchildren hostage", the "rescuers"/SSS are portrayed as being more and more villainous while the terrorists/Red Circus are portrayed as being more and more sympathetic. Not the kind of thing I expect in shonen manga. Well, one of them is planning to blow up a bus full of children. Not exactly a sympathetic move there. thetoughestbean fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Dec 27, 2022 |
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Dec 27, 2022 03:07
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thetoughestbean posted:Well, one of them is planning to blow up a bus full of children. Not exactly a sympathetic move there. he's waiting until the cops board the bus
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Dec 27, 2022 06:38
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where the red fern gropes posted:he's waiting until the cops board the bus That doesn't make it any better.
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Dec 27, 2022 06:42
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I mean… maybe a little
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Dec 27, 2022 11:12
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"I didn't WANT to murder 30 six year olds, but I figured hey, gonna die anyway."
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Dec 27, 2022 13:08
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SpiderLink posted:"I didn't WANT to murder 30 six year olds, but I figured hey, gonna die anyway." Are you talking about Red Circus or SSS here? 
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Dec 27, 2022 13:10
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Well given that said kids are mostly the children of the rich and power and Yor the SSS better not be thinking that.
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Dec 27, 2022 14:59
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Yeah the Red Circus seems to be broadly modeled after the Red Army Faction / Baader-Meinhof Gang (pro tip: go to the wiki page of Andreas Baader to find a fun fact right under "Death"), their origins as a student movement that got merked was pretty common among radical armed groups during the Cold War, and the hijacking itself wasn't exactly uncommon but the method is closest to a 1988 case in the Soviet Union, though that one seemed to be carried out by common criminals.
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Dec 27, 2022 15:36
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The not Stasi going "gently caress the hostages" is kinda strange though. If these were random kids such an attitude would be unremarkable, but the parents have enough political power and pull to disappear the whole department if anything were to happen to the kids. Disappear very slowly, over the course of very painful weeks.
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Dec 27, 2022 16:03
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:it's not exactly an uncommon scenario. Specifically in the late 60s there were a lot of student protests among other social movements happening around the world including west germany which would line up with this manga's timeframe. I remember reading up on some particularly nasty student protests that happened in Japan while watching Concrete Revolutio.
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Dec 27, 2022 16:14
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Omobono posted:The not Stasi going "gently caress the hostages" is kinda strange though. If these were random kids such an attitude would be unremarkable, but the parents have enough political power and pull to disappear the whole department if anything were to happen to the kids. The people you get to do something like that are the secret police. You would be amazed at how hard it is to call the secret police *on* the secret police. It's like....well it's like trying to call the police on the regular police, only even more violent and corrupt.
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Dec 27, 2022 17:09
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Mulva posted:The people you get to do something like that are the secret police. Yeah, you'd need to call some sort of...organization of highly skilled assassins to take on such a difficult project.
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Dec 27, 2022 17:44
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Actually I can't remember where does the Garden fall in the East vs. West thing? Or are they more of a neutral party?
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Dec 27, 2022 17:48
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Electric Phantasm posted:Actually I can't remember where does the Garden fall in the East vs. West thing? Or are they more of a neutral party? Garden appears to be a private Ostanian organization dedicated to removing internal threats to peace.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:20
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Electric Phantasm posted:Actually I can't remember where does the Garden fall in the East vs. West thing? Or are they more of a neutral party? No one knows yet. Yor seems to be under the impression that they're in the business of keeping the peace. But Yor's uh... pretty impressionable, so they could be working towards other ends. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Dec 27, 2022 |
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Dec 27, 2022 18:23
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The garden seems to be Ostanian in origin but thusfar does not seem to be as directly under the state as WISE is in Westania.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:25
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Shopkeeper is... not exactly a friend of the Desmonds, it seems. He comments that Melinda is a conservative and he wouldn't exactly recommend Yor making friends with her in case anything were to happen, recommends that at the very least she be careful in case her husband starts thinking she has one-sided political beliefs, and gets suspicious when he hears Loid appears to be taking an interest in the National Unity Party.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:28
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narm00 posted:Shopkeeper is... not exactly a friend of the Desmonds, it seems. He comments that Melinda is a conservative and he wouldn't exactly recommend Yor making friends with her in case anything were to happen, recommends that at the very least she be careful in case her husband starts thinking she has one-sided political beliefs, and gets suspicious when he hears Loid appears to be taking an interest in the National Unity Party. Well at the core of this operation, Desmond and his political party are doing something that will spark another war so it makes sense Shopkeeper is not fond of him.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:45
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WISE's missions are really straightforward stuff that make sense for a spy organization to be ordering them to do. The Garden has Yor play bodyguard for the widow of a mafioso black marketeer- so personal interests and not explicitly state-related work seems to be a thing for the Garden.
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Dec 27, 2022 21:53
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Electric Phantasm posted:Actually I can't remember where does the Garden fall in the East vs. West thing? Or are they more of a neutral party? The Garden appears to be like the Eastern WISE as they don't like Desmond either.
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Dec 27, 2022 21:58
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The Garden is just a better GRU/CIA because yeah they're organized crime and the govt sponsored mob, but they also have people who can kick whole city blocks apart like Yor in their ranks. Like, My name is Agent "I punched your house into sawdust and was your family in there?" That's my name. It's Polish. Or like, Northwestanian. Desumaytah fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Dec 27, 2022 |
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Dec 27, 2022 23:51
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Closest real-life thing to the Garden re: the way they operate (clandestine hits on state and civilian targets while also having links to organized crime, as opposed to just outright state-sanctioned assassinations via secret police) would be some ~deep state~ Cold War orgs like the turkish Grey Wolves, the various psychopaths of Operation Gladio, and some Latin American death squads like the AAA. None of them had the lofty goals the Garden appears to pursue, though. Motivation-wise, closest thing would be Lebanon under Chehab. Hmmm yes I have adequately mapped the geopolitics of it all. Now I can wait to see how this psychic child saves the day along with her magic dog.
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Dec 28, 2022 03:32
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The people Garden tends to target are straight up traitors to the country, or criminals. Shopkeeper while he does not appear to be fond of Desmond, he does not seem to view him as a target just because of his political beliefs.
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Dec 28, 2022 04:02
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MonsterEnvy posted:The people Garden tends to target are straight up traitors to the country, or criminals. Shopkeeper while he does not appear to be fond of Desmond, he does not seem to view him as a target just because of his political beliefs. Though he's very much a potential person of interest to the Garden for precisely those reasons. I assume they're just as interested as WISE in finding out what the gently caress is really up with him.
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Dec 28, 2022 12:17
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Omobono posted:The not Stasi going "gently caress the hostages" is kinda strange though. If these were random kids such an attitude would be unremarkable, but the parents have enough political power and pull to disappear the whole department if anything were to happen to the kids. Don't know enough about the stasi, but here in Brazil's military dictatorship, the official secret police's rulebook was to always treat the hostages as dead in a hijacking and just kill the rebels. Which worked out great when the US ambassador was kidnapped and they could NOT just light up the place because it would royally piss off their main backers. They literally had no other tricks, and the ransom and demands were paid. One of the few highly successful attacks of that kind.
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Jan 10, 2023 23:07
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the first student to ever get a star and a bolt at the same time, for the same actions.
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Jan 22, 2023 15:36
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