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Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Libertad! posted:

I was going to pick the latter, but you answered it with Beast's Nightmare thing. So let's go with stupidly powerful.

Hm. Tossup between Skybreaker, a high-power ochemata from Mage and a high-power Pangaean.

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1st Edition

Post 6, The Mystery of Druids

I could go into trying to summarize how magic works in WHFRP 1e. I really could. I've been dreading getting to this part because even reading the drat rules for it is a headache. But you know, I'm not interested in trying to transcribe enough to summarize things a bit and you're not really interested in reading it, let's be honest. The big thing you need to know is that magic in 1st edition is extremely bog-standard basic high fantasy magic. Magic is also very character resource intensive, requiring you to go through a gating Basic Career to start climbing up a series of Careers 1-4, labeled helpfully 'Wizard Level 1' or 'Wizard Level 3' or 'Alchemist Level 4'. They're normal careers, and they bring to mind the later career tiering and career track stuff in later games in the series. Where they differ is that entering new Wizard/Priest/Whatever careers costs a ton of extra EXP. You have to spend heavily to switch between careers, specialties, and climb up levels. Magic relies on a complicated system of MP that is completely unrecognizable to later games in the line. There do not, from what I can tell, seem to be miscasts or casting tests; you just slam the MP down (and expend an Ingredient; material components were required, rather than being boosters), declare you're casting, and pray you don't get walloped in the middle of your spell because you now count as Prone and not defending yourself (for the entire round, it seems!), meaning you not only get automatically hit by melee attacks but they do double damage, which also cancels your spell (but costs the MP) if you were hit while still casting.

Do not cast spells unless you are behind your buddies. You will die from trying to put up the magic fingers, which in no way stop some barbarian wretch with mighty thews from cleaving you stem to stern.

The really important part is that the Winds of Magic, all the fluff and flavor and Lores and stuff that made magic flavorful and cool in Warhams? None of it's here. Magic is just generic high fantasy magic, mostly the same as D&D. It's a specialized and powerful tool, sure, but it's boring. Not only is it boring, its much too complicated and deals with a bunch of big subsystems that only deal with magic. The magic system is absolutely the weakest mechanical system in 1st edition that I've seen, and according to the author's notes in 2e, it was apparently meant to be a temporary stopgap system that would get expanded and filled out into something less dull but then ended up surviving all of 1st edition's tenure. 2e's magic system might have its own issues (especially with a few of the Lores being really underpowered) but at least 2e made playing a wizard flavorful and interesting. You didn't just have a generic 'Battle Magic' spell list and then maybe go into Elementalist to get a generic Battle Magic: Elementalist list as well.

The lack of any and all of the magic fluff that made magic fun is really draining when you read this section. For the most part, Warhammer really isn't that much like D&D; it's got a lot of fantasy cliches but it usually does something with them. It's concerned with different things than D&D, and generally has a stronger sense of grounding or of placing characters in the context of their society and their world. Here? 1e's magic is D&D magic. It's a thing where powerful wizard dudes wave their hands and stuff just happens. There's no real limitation on what it can do besides it being a general RPG spell list full of combat spells (there's a reason it's defined as Battle Magic as its default) and there's no theme to it. It's really complicated, not very good, and completely lacking in the stuff that makes magic interesting to play with in later entries.

What's more interesting is that you can see from day 1 Magic Items were something of an issue for WHFRP. 1e actually expects you to get them; a GM is told to make sure finding one is a big event but that players shouldn't be allowed to 'despair of getting one' during their career. There's a much wider selection of magic items, though I also recognize many of these as being converted into items you could find based on Realms of Sorcery in 2e. What's notable is that magic items can be generated very randomly, and can vary enormously in power. For instance, a Shield +3 is +4 AV on every location against attacks from the front. Your chances of rolling such a mighty item on the random tables are very low, yes. But it's possible. Most items are fairly minor edges, but even minor edges are potentially a big deal in Hams. Hams has never really sat down and looked at how to include magic items without them either being vanishingly rare or surprisingly unbalancing. I suspect this is a big reason 2e just kinda went 'most PCs will never use any' and moved on from there.

Another interesting thing: Most of the Chaos Weapon table in Tome of Corruption in 2e actually consists of conversions and re-imaginings of the enormous number of weapon effects you can roll for a magic weapon in 1e. There's a lot of wild poo poo your magic sword could do. You also need a WP test to 'master' a magic weapon when you first get it or it won't turn on for you.

What really stands out is how, in a game where I can recognize a lot of the flavor and style (or the outlines of them, at least) from the later editions and setting? There's absolutely none of it in magic. Not in magic items, not in spells, not in the way magic works in the setting. It's curious that this is one of the places where things seem to have changed the most, and the most fundamentally, between the early history of Hams and later works. I'm genuinely curious what sparked the changes and why, but I'm also very glad they happened; if magic had stayed how it was in 1e the entire setting (not to mention the game mechanics) would have been much poorer for it.

Next Time: Old Old World Religion

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements



Mors Rattus posted:

Hm. Tossup between Skybreaker, a high-power ochemata from Mage and a high-power Pangaean.

Skybreaker is more of a fleshy dungeon crawl than an individual character IMO.
Ochemata and Pangaeans are definitely pretty wild. I think it took me a minute to understand how much of a problem it is that Ochemata get the Rote quality on every mundane action. Plus they have monstrous dice pools iirc.

Libertad!
Oct 30, 2013

You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!
Found this posted on a Savage Worlds Facebook group.

Deadlands: Lost Colony is getting an SW update on October 2019.

I'm highly tempted to review if if/when it comes out, but only time will tell.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Joe Slowboat posted:

The Brain is great because it thinks it's a super genius and has Int 4 and terrible plans. It thinks the only personal growth it needs is a big beefy body to go with its big beefy brain. It's a living failure mode, a malicious lesson wandering around.

I hadn't clocked the 'supersmart for a broken thing' part - that might make it a bit more comedy, but god it makes it better. Depending on the GMs ability to monologue that could be amazing.

I'm p sure I've seen it post on e/n.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Yeah, it gets emphasized when the book notes that it fakes a newscaster accent badly to make itself sound sophisticated.

e: I love Coeus so much. The world's best big dumb idiot monologuing superbrain.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




He'd totally fit in as a doctor who villain.

He'd parasite the companion and the doctor would have to outwit him to get him to leave the body, probably by getting a big beefy shop mannequin or something.

lofi fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 17, 2019

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Re Warhammer, do any of the editions have decent rules for playing an ogre? I just love the Maneaters.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The Lone Badger posted:

Re Warhammer, do any of the editions have decent rules for playing an ogre? I just love the Maneaters.

This is one of the enormous weaknesses of every single edition of WHFRP, I say, as someone who also loves the ridiculously costumed fat cosplaying mercenaries.

None do. They thought bringing gnomes back from a footnote in 1e was more important in 4e, I guess.

(The real reason is that the Size rules added in 4e would make a Large PC ridiculously strong)

Lord_Hambrose
Nov 21, 2008

*a foul hooting fills the air*



The Lone Badger posted:

Re Warhammer, do any of the editions have decent rules for playing an ogre? I just love the Maneaters.

Yes! The 40k game Only War does! Not quite the same admittedly, but something.

Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!
There's a supplement out there for playing an Ogre in 2e but it's poo poo. Ogres in that supplement get hard bonuses that make them far and away the best race (3 attacks, absurdly high WS, ST, and Toughness) and drawbacks that are either pure RP (you have to play dumb no matter your INT score, people won't like you) or drat near bonuses (you can't learn a bunch of skills like academics or read/write, which means when you take a career with them you can skip them and advance faster).

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I imagine they gave them 3 attacks because the standard OWB Ogre has that (as do the TT units) but man is that a dumb idea for a PC conversion.

E: The issue that makes them hard to do is they need to be very strong and very tough to actually work out, while being very strong and very tough is a powerful trait in WHFRP. Especially 1 and 2 e where a significant amount of your defense comes from tanking with DR. I could probably do a reasonable conversion for them but it would work out to +10 S, +10 T, -10 Fel, -10 Agi (I'd actually keep to 'no-one really has altered Int') and very high starting Wounds (Somewhere like +3 or +4 over human norm) but lower Fate. Not sure what I'd do with talents and things. They wouldn't come out looking like proper 'monstrous' characters, but making them fit into PC parameters wouldn't really allow for that as is. They'd basically come out playing like less skillful but harder hitting dwarfs, but that's hard to avoid without putting them into crazy town on physical abilities.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Sep 18, 2019

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Could you allow them to buy Strength and Toughness upgrades seperate from their Career, but at a high xp cost? So they can potentially be very strong and tough, but at the cost of being less skilled and potentially lower-tier than a human warrior.

Also, triple the cost of armor for an ogre. Should help keep them from becoming invulnerable. Similarly, a Good or Best weapon suited for an ogre should be very difficult to obtain, even successful mercenaries usually use low-quality or improvised gear.

The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Sep 18, 2019

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

S and T are really tightly controlled for a reason; scaling them out of whack can do crazy stuff (this is why Chaos Lords with their +30 S/+40 T and Vampires with their higher base stats get nuts). Maybe give them their choice of Very Strong or Very Resilient among their starting talents for their species. A guy or gal starting with effectively +15 S or T over human norm is already pretty mean.

Basically I'd err on the side of having them fit the normal PC paradigm just so you don't have to worry about them being too out there, because they're one of the few 'monster' character types that would fit in fine with a normal party since Ogres play better with others than most people think.

E: Basically 'how would I do Playable Ogres/Saurus/Skinks' have all been things that have occupied part of my thinking for a long time, but has never been official.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Sep 18, 2019

Ithle01
May 28, 2013

Mors Rattus posted:

Generally, when Promethean starts to talk about buildings getting mad at you it means the building is on fire, and fire is possibly raining from the sky.

e: also come on how y'all not loving THE BRAIN THAT WOULDN'T DIE, he's the goofiest motherfucker

I really am liking these monsters, they're all amazing from tree stump hands to Joan of Arc statue to the sex-doll flesh-eating ogre, but the more of this I read the more I wish that Promethean was a game about being a pulpy action Frankenstein that drives around the country, never stays in one place too long, and beats the ever-living poo poo out of monsters. And then I find out the game is actually about learning what it means to be human and I am just so loving confused. I guess I could think of it as like the world's weirdest scavenger hunt and run it with some heavy influences from Unknown Armies or something.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

What if a promethean based their view of humanity on mainlining Supernatural/Hellboy/Scooby Doo/etc, so their Pilgrimage involves driving around the country in a panel van punching monsters?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The Lone Badger posted:

What if a promethean based their view of humanity on mainlining Supernatural/Hellboy/Scooby Doo/etc, so their Pilgrimage involves driving around the country in a panel van punching monsters?

Follow some Hunters around, take notes.

Throwing vampires out a window into the blazing light of the sun so they explode into confetti is very human. Most of us would absolutely do that if we could.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:
I feel like this is a prime time to bring up the Promethean story from the Beast Fiction Anthology. Where a Beast just does not understand why all the Prometheans are happy for their friend who's now a boring normal human, and is halfway towards finding out if you can de-humanify a Promethean before her friend takes a flying leap off of her pilgrimage to kill the Beast in question.

Mainly in that Promethean games should be about killing Beasts a lot.

Kurieg fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Sep 18, 2019

ChaseSP
Mar 25, 2013



It is pretty easy to see a Promethean wanting to murder a Beast given how much of living pieces of poo poo they are but that isn't unique to Prometheans.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Again, seeing a living avatar of smirking, privileged cruelty that lives only to abuse others and reacting by wanting to make it taste the curb for what it does is a pretty human response.

E: Not to mention they're literal opposites, monsters that are very eager to leave behind any vestige of humanity to glory in the temporal power they get to hurt other people. Compared to artificial but very powerful beings who are on a long pilgrimage that will hopefully eventually give up that power in order to be able to lead a meaningful life and live with others.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Sep 18, 2019

juggalo baby coffin
Dec 2, 2007

How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?


yea i don't know how killing someone makes you less human. putting yourself in danger (and your own pilgrimage) to kill someone who is threatening a someone else's life is generally regarded as a very human virtue. if WW wasn't busy inserting artificial angst into everything then doing that should have finished the other promethean's pilgrimage too.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements



ChaseSP posted:

It is pretty easy to see a Promethean wanting to murder a Beast given how much of living pieces of poo poo they are but that isn't unique to Prometheans.

Beasts are specifically 'inhumanity cheerleaders' who encourage monsters to glory in monster-ness and ignore all kinship with humanity. They emphasize otherness as if it's power, and via their social and magical special effects, they can pretty hugely screw up a Promethean's Pilgrimage with little effort. Other than Centimani, a Beast is a direct threat to the guiding light of a Promethean's life. No other splat is as concerned with specifically hewing to humanity, not merely as a means to an end (staying stable and functional) but as the fundamental existential quest of their existence.

On the other hand, I would say the problem with Prometheans-as-Hunters is less that it's inhuman to want to be a Hunter, but because Prometheans could easily become too good at it, forgetting human frailty. This is actually the arc of Roger the Homunculus in Hellboy: He uses his inhuman physique to be a potent BPRD agent, and as the Bureau is militarizing to fight a rising occult threat, he's encouraged to do so. This comes back to bite him specifically when he meets something that can kill him as easily as it kills humans; in Promethean, you don't necessarily need that tragic end, but a Roger working with (Disquiet-resisting) Hunters is still going to end up being marked out simply by the fact of their immense Frankenstein-y power.

It's a subtle trap and an interesting one for a character arc, but absolutely not a dead end on a Pilgrimage. It just means that even Pulp Frankenstein throwing vampires out windows with big meaty hands is going to end up introspecting and comparing human vampire hunters to their own experience, in order to understand why humans fear vampires, what's so bad about vampires beyond the obvious, and what it means to be a mere mortal in a world with dark and spooky things that go bump in the night.

E: Like, one result could easily be a vampire-hunting Petrificati: Prometheans have to change and grow, moving out of their current role to understand others. A Promethean who dedicated themselves to vampire hunting and didn't know when to put down the stake could easily become an automated vampire killing machine, the spark of life gone but the mission remaining. Hunters would probably love them (or at least, love their hollow-eyed walking corpse, which would then bring fellow hunters who went down back to life as more vampire-hunting automata).

Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Sep 18, 2019

StratGoatCom
Aug 6, 2019

Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice


The trick, therefore, is switch hits and go terrorize the other horrors that go bump in the night on regular occasions regularly. :black101:

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



StratGoatCom posted:

The trick, therefore, is switch hits and go terrorize the other horrors that go bump in the night on regular occasions regularly. :black101:
Indeed, nothing can be more glorious than to live to kill the Other.

I think this is a place where the nWoD mythos breaks down a little, because to a certain extent vampires become fungible; it seems as if there would not really be an escalation here, that if you are killing vampires, you will encounter stronger and weaker vampires, but it's within a pretty narrow continuum.

Because what would seem to be a logical enclosure for a Promethean is to have a master vampire to take out.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I was more implying that the universal reaction to a Beast is 'kill it'.

The better reaction is 'This isn't actually a thing in this setting, because Beast never should have seen the light of day as a product, so we'll just move on and not use it in anything', but if they show up they are absolutely the complete opposite of everything the Prometheans are supposed to be about.

Libertad!
Oct 30, 2013

You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

Night10194 posted:

I was more implying that the universal reaction to a Beast is 'kill it'.

The better reaction is 'This isn't actually a thing in this setting, because Beast never should have seen the light of day as a product, so we'll just move on and not use it in anything', but if they show up they are absolutely the complete opposite of everything the Prometheans are supposed to be about.

In Vampire you're a parasitical monster who engages in petty politicking to ignore existential angst that comes with centuries of self-reflection.

In Werewolf you're the latest in the line of hunter-god devotees who fight an eternal battle against dangers from the spirit world.

In Promethean you are a being that reality itself rejects and seek to find a way to fit in among society.

In Beast you choke frat boys with their own vomit for stealing candy from babies.

Libertad! fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Sep 18, 2019

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




I've not heard of beast, can I get the 101?

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.

Halloween Jack posted:

The impending End Times in all of the classic WoD games was a great parallel to the looming sense of dread at the end of the millennium. But having all the legends turn out to be true really messes with the theme. The Vampire developers could certainly have said "Yes, Caine and the Antediluvians are dead. The Jyhad is just paranoia feeding paranoia, a cycle of violence that no one knows how to stop." But that was never going to happen.

It's one of the things I liked in the Bloodlines video game - everyone's running around in a panic fearing the apocalpyse, and it turns out in the end that the 'Antediluvian' is just a corpse and a coffin stuffed with explosives, and it was all a setup by Jack to play on everyone else's fears.

Jerik
Jun 24, 2019

I don't know what to write here.

lofi posted:

I've not heard of beast, can I get the 101?

There's a review of the game by Kurieg that you can read on inklesspen's site. It's long, but worth reading if you want to know what the game's about. I just finished reading it myself recently, since Kurieg was posting a review of the Beast Player's Guide and I wanted to know the basics of the game to understand the context.

Brief summary: Beasts are people who have the souls of ancient monsters: dragons, krakens, etc. They have a Hunger that they need to Feed, which they can do, depending on the particular nature of their Hunger, by destroying things, or terrorizing people, or otherwise making the world a worse place. They half-heartedly try to justify this as teaching important lessons, but the whole lesson thing never makes any sense and the pretense is often dropped anyway.

Beast has no obvious conflicts or story hooks built in, except that people called Heroes obsessed with monster-hunting show up randomly to try to kill them. Despite the Beasts being horrible monsters that are driven to make people miserable, the Heroes are painted as the villains. Also, there's a thing about how Beasts have to balance their level of Satiety, which for some reason the writer mistakenly thinks is pronounced "SAY-shi-tee", but mostly that just gets weird because the optimal strategy is to ping-pong as quickly as possible between starving and gorged, which is especially unfortunate because becoming gorged usually requires the Beast to do something especially nasty.

(Or, you know, I think technically by the rules a Beast who doesn't want to cause anyone any harm could just hang around some other supernatural creature watching it hunt and Feed itself that way and so never have to actually attack anyone directly, but there's no evidence in the book that any Beasts actually do this, or that the writers even considered it.)

Basically, my impression of the game—and I think from other posts here (and from Kurieg's review) I'm not alone in this—is that Beasts could make decent antagonists for most of the World of Darkness splats. They're pretty much irredeemably evil, and cause nothing but suffering to everyone around them. However, the line developers didn't quite realize this, and for some reason decided Beasts would make wonderful PCs.

It's... it's not good.

Jerik fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Sep 18, 2019

vcvcvc12
Jun 9, 2013
In all seriousness, would Beasts actually work thematically as a Promethean villain? They actively try to disturb humanity whereas Prometheans have no choice in the matter, and philosophically they're outright rejecting what Prometheans are trying to get. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read the Beast review in a while.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


Prometheans should definitely be written to despise beasts on goddamn principal, I'm feeling that even plenty of Centimani would kill them rather than talk to them.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!

lofi posted:

I've not heard of beast, can I get the 101?

Beast is almost literally "Justifying Abuse: The RPG" and was written by Matt McFarland, who, after Beast was published, was accused of sexual assault and statutory rape.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

They also have a Poochie Aura that makes all other splats instinctively think they're cool and want to hang out with them.

Joe Slowboat posted:

E: Like, one result could easily be a vampire-hunting Petrificati: Prometheans have to change and grow, moving out of their current role to understand others. A Promethean who dedicated themselves to vampire hunting and didn't know when to put down the stake could easily become an automated vampire killing machine, the spark of life gone but the mission remaining. Hunters would probably love them (or at least, love their hollow-eyed walking corpse, which would then bring fellow hunters who went down back to life as more vampire-hunting automata).

I think there's room to switch up your Role while still remaining in the general dracula-punching idiom. Like instead of being the dashing young frankenstein who personally throws draculas through windows you transition into being the mysterious janitor who dispenses information and advice to people with a dracula problem, and from that to the old guy with an encyclopedic knowledge of human anatomy who's always happy to patch up dracula-related injuries without asking inconvenient questions...

The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Sep 18, 2019

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Joe Slowboat posted:

Beasts are specifically 'inhumanity cheerleaders' who encourage monsters to glory in monster-ness and ignore all kinship with humanity. They emphasize otherness as if it's power, and via their social and magical special effects, they can pretty hugely screw up a Promethean's Pilgrimage with little effort. Other than Centimani, a Beast is a direct threat to the guiding light of a Promethean's life. No other splat is as concerned with specifically hewing to humanity, not merely as a means to an end (staying stable and functional) but as the fundamental existential quest of their existence.

Which is again another of the (probably many) reasons the Forsaken would not like Beasts, since they like this whole 'balance between wolf and man' thing.

rodbeard
Jul 21, 2005

I don't know with how overwrought and angsty ever other WoD book is I'm glad there's one that's just gently caress it I'm going to eat this guy and call it an ironic punishment. I would love to be running around as a slasher movie villian while everyone else is trying out their Anne Rice rollplay.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

Jerik posted:

Also, there's a thing about how Beasts have to balance their level of Satiety, which for some reason the writer mistakenly thinks is pronounced "SAY-shi-tee", but mostly that just gets weird because the optimal strategy is to ping-pong as quickly as possible between starving and gorged, which is especially unfortunate because becoming gorged usually requires the Beast to do something especially nasty.


This may be one of those 'varies by country' things because I'd say it that way too. :britain:

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



rodbeard posted:

I don't know with how overwrought and angsty ever other WoD book is I'm glad there's one that's just gently caress it I'm going to eat this guy and call it an ironic punishment. I would love to be running around as a slasher movie villian while everyone else is trying out their Anne Rice rollplay.

Oh good, this again.

When Beast was reviewed the first time there was some seriously brokebrained person posting about how great it was blah blah blah for pages at a time. Donít be that guy.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Mors Rattus posted:

Hm. Tossup between Skybreaker, a high-power ochemata from Mage and a high-power Pangaean.

Why not go with "too powerful for intended purpose?" That's kinda the description of broken.

quote:

So it's kind of unfortunate that all the endings in Gehenna had Caine mythos and literally every weird myth vampires told about the early generations be completely accurate!
I'd like a bullet-point list of the Gehenna scenarios!

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

8one6 posted:

Beast is almost literally "Justifying Abuse: The RPG" and was written by Matt McFarland, who, after Beast was published, was accused of sexual assault and statutory rape.
What's worse is that it came out that he and his wife were using their positions on the board of their indie dev organization to intimidate victims and suppress accusations. And his wife was the sole editor on Beast. So she apparently knew/knows what he did and approves.

rodbeard posted:

I don't know with how overwrought and angsty ever other WoD book is I'm glad there's one that's just gently caress it I'm going to eat this guy and call it an ironic punishment. I would love to be running around as a slasher movie villian while everyone else is trying out their Anne Rice rollplay.

It could be that, it perhaps would have been good if it was that, but it's not. The issue is that beast rather clumsily welds itself to LGBTQ people as a metaphor for being born some way and not being able to control it. "I have to mind-rape people and it's not right for you to tell me I can't." It also casts Jocks and Conservatives as the main villains of the book while also stating that such people are actually systemically immoral and thus okay to kill, and that if they were moral they would accept Beasts for what they are and help them mind-rape people. Also the players guide completely gave the game away and introduced a splat of beasts who are cursed with urges to literally physically rape people, and states that they should be applauded for having the wherewithal and mental fortitude to go even one day without raping people, and not blamed for their actions if they give into their impulses.

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WINNERSH TRIANGLE
Aug 17, 2011

JcDent posted:

Why not go with "too powerful for intended purpose?" That's kinda the description of broken.

Weren't dogs in nWoD unbelievably powerful combat monsters?

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