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Echo Chamber
Oct 16, 2008

best username/post combo


Atrocious Joe posted:

this always seemed like such a bullshit "foreigners are dumb" piece of conventional wisdom
I'll never forgive CHINA :argh: for making my super smart franchise movies dumb.

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Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





Atrocious Joe posted:

this always seemed like such a bullshit "foreigners are dumb" piece of conventional wisdom

I think it's based more on the idea it's hard to translate poo poo so just make everything simple, Kung Fu movies but in reverse.

Echo Chamber
Oct 16, 2008

best username/post combo


There's probably still a bunch of neckbeards on the internet who are super mad that the 2016 Warcraft movie made money in China.

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk




Probably Magic posted:

Joker correctly diagnosing Bruce as on the spectrum is a good thing, as for as I'm concerned, since that's probably the only way good way to portray Batman going forward lest you just have people pretending he's a libertarian shithead instead.

most parents (whether they have money or not) teach their kids not to speak to strangers, not to get too close to strangers, not to take things from strangers, etc. parents that are inordinately wealthy definitely teach their kids that same poo poo, on top of the fact that they can pay staff to mind the kid 24/7 and ostensibly make sure nobody is harassing them. for kid-bruce to just slowly amble over to the fence and then allow phoenix to jam fingers in his mouth and only after that did alfred appear to halt the interaction is just incredibly dumb.

it's why the elements that related the plot to batman lore are the weakest parts for me. you could do the exact same plot minus the batman references and then the director wouldn't have felt pressure to answer some theoretical neckbeard complaining "but if it's THOMAS WAYNE then where's bruce this is bullshit"

also batman is an extremely anachronistic relic of the decade(s) in which he was conceived and he translates increasingly poorly as time moves forward and people become more sophisticated about concepts like wealth inequality and how that directly correlates with crime among people that become disenfranchised. IMO batman as a character shouldn't be presented in any media that is supposed to happen after the 1930s or so

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009



MasterSitsu posted:

, the parents took a couple "Baby's first movie!" selfies mid-film.

if that is a real thing people do it's going to cause far more movie theater violence than Joker, the most dangerous movie ever made

Percelus
Sep 9, 2012

My command, your wish is



i agree batman needs to go back to his roots

killing vampires with silver bullets in a haunted castle

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010




Hey it worked for Immortal Hulk

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

whatever marginal advantage the racial justice protestors gained from being masked was greatly outweighed by the fact that the racial justice protests were larger than the covid protests by a scale or two of magnitude

Atrocious Joe posted:

this always seemed like such a bullshit "foreigners are dumb" piece of conventional wisdom

its also in this case demonstrably untrue joker is doing gangbusters at the international box office

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



there were a few movies a few years ago that transparently pandered to chinese people like independence day 2 but i dont think they worked that well so they gave up

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010




Farm Frenzy posted:

there were a few movies a few years ago that transparently pandered to chinese people like independence day 2 but i dont think they worked that well so they gave up

pacific rim 2 pandered so hard it became hilarious, like getting charlie day to speak half his lines in mandarin

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

That's been going on for a while - "2012" had the Chinese saving the world because they were the only ones who could build the arks

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

whatever marginal advantage the racial justice protestors gained from being masked was greatly outweighed by the fact that the racial justice protests were larger than the covid protests by a scale or two of magnitude

hilariously this kind of pandering never actually works the at best chinese viewers just ignore it and at worst the obvious toadying just results in the movies being mercilessly mocked all over the chinese internet

pretty much the only successful example of chinese pandering was the warcraft movie but you might have noticed that movie didnt contain clumsy references to oriental ninjas who save the day by brewing green tea to calm the orcs down it was only pandering in the sense that warcraft is an intellectual property that chinese people have heard of

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019



remember how god awful the acting is in the opening bank heist scene in the dark knight

"i know why they call im the joker!"

"wh wh wharrr did you learna count??"

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

whatever marginal advantage the racial justice protestors gained from being masked was greatly outweighed by the fact that the racial justice protests were larger than the covid protests by a scale or two of magnitude

christopher nolan like most allegedly good modern hollywood directors actually really sucks at evoking good performances from his actors but gets away with it because he casts just enough genuinely talented people who dont need direction that everyone ignores how all the other ones obviously have no idea what theyre doing

sequels are one good way to mask this since actors who reprise old roles generally dont need that much direction to play them correctly although this still leads to comically egotistical situations like rian johnson doing such a lovely job of explaining what was going on with luke skywalker that mark hamill just had to pretend like he was playing a completely different character in order for his performance to make any sense at all

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010




nolan is like blomkamp in that he's a talented cinematographer but has no idea how to write

Echo Chamber
Oct 16, 2008

best username/post combo


Often, whining about Chinese pandering comes off not as "capitalism sucks" but rather "Chinese people should not be in movies."

Maybe not here, where cspam's skepticism of Hollywood is credible. But like, YouTube comments and reddit, and many supposed apolitical spaces where the subject of some Asian character in some commercial product comes up.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

whatever marginal advantage the racial justice protestors gained from being masked was greatly outweighed by the fact that the racial justice protests were larger than the covid protests by a scale or two of magnitude

like seriously nolan managed to turn christian bale into a punchline because his batman is just such a huge dork christian bale the guy who was probably the most up and coming star in hollywood at the time he became the new batman almost immediately reduced to joking self parody roles because after batman no one could take him seriously anymore

the weird thing is that this never ever comes up in retrospectives about just how brilliant the nolan batman movies were even though bales batman is so iconically goofy even the tom holland spider man could make fun of him

Reverend Dr
Feb 9, 2005

Thanks Reverend



"I won't kill you... but I don't have to save you" - christopher nolan on his role in the batman franchise

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



the gradual rising consciousness of how lovely all the nolan batman movies actually were makes me happy

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007



reading Felix Biederman's review of Joker confirmed the thought i've been having for months about it: it's a profoundly OK movie that won't be remembered after Thanksgiving. you know, the same thing that happened with Wonder Woman and Ghostbusters 2016 before it

Some Guy TT posted:

hilariously this kind of pandering never actually works the at best chinese viewers just ignore it and at worst the obvious toadying just results in the movies being mercilessly mocked all over the chinese internet
i've been wondering for a while if the chinese moviegoing public actually enjoyed the kind of obvious pandering Hollywood puts in their movies. another example is The Emoji Movie taking place in WeChat

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk




get that OUT of my face posted:

reading Felix Biederman's review of Joker confirmed the thought i've been having for months about it: it's a profoundly OK movie that won't be remembered after Thanksgiving. you know, the same thing that happened with Wonder Woman and Ghostbusters 2016 before it

i'm partial to the idea that some amount of the online outrage over joker was intentionally manufactured / astroturfed to try and leverage the power of outrage porn to increase ticket sales of an otherwise mediocre and forgettable film


Farm Frenzy posted:

the gradual rising consciousness of how lovely all the nolan batman movies actually were makes me happy

the dark night was lightning in a bottle and both the origin movie and the bane one were underwhelming. it's funny because when they were being released, i was super not interested in the 2nd one after watching the first, but saw it and obviously enjoyed it, so then my hopes were higher for the third and that made it even more disappointing

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019



remember when rotten tomatoes had to put their site on lock down against DDoS attacks and critics were getting death threats for not giving dark knight rises 10/10. first time i was consciously aware of how hosed the concept of fandom is.

Serf
May 5, 2011




Freaking Crumbum posted:

i'm partial to the idea that some amount of the online outrage over joker was intentionally manufactured / astroturfed to try and leverage the power of outrage porn to increase ticket sales of an otherwise mediocre and forgettable film

probably a combination of astroturfing and media libs with incel hot takes. ofc now it seems like they were doing that to distract from the class war imagery in the movie

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

whatever marginal advantage the racial justice protestors gained from being masked was greatly outweighed by the fact that the racial justice protests were larger than the covid protests by a scale or two of magnitude

get that OUT of my face posted:

i've been wondering for a while if the chinese moviegoing public actually enjoyed the kind of obvious pandering Hollywood puts in their movies. another example is The Emoji Movie taking place in WeChat

the great irony of hollywoods excessive pandering experiment is that it probably cost them the chinese market chinese people can and do make their own generic bad movies the main big hollywood successes in china are the ones with weird gimmicks that chinese filmmakers cant easily recreate like marvel smashing its toys together or badass multiethnic american street thugs going on increasingly improbable adventures involving spy satellites and super cars

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Serf posted:

probably a combination of astroturfing and media libs with incel hot takes. ofc now it seems like they were doing that to distract from the class war imagery in the movie

I donít see why a movie about a mentally ill man leading a vague revolution should be the most lib movie

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019



thing is i came up woth the idea for this movie back in 08, me and the boys left a screening of the dark knight, and i said it would be cool if they made a prequel about joker rising to infamy. and what do you know 11 years later here we are.

Serf
May 5, 2011




CharlestheHammer posted:

I donít see why a movie about a mentally ill man leading a vague revolution should be the most lib movie

libs love licking boots so seeing cops get killed and beat down makes them feel bad

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007



Farm Frenzy posted:

the gradual rising consciousness of how lovely all the nolan batman movies actually were makes me happy
i do understand why they were well-regarded at the time: they were a breath of fresh air after the last two Batman movies that were gaudy, over-the-top embarrassments. now everyone knows that Nolan wasn't the first person to do a reimagining of Batman and the Joker, and he wasn't even all that great at it

Serf posted:

probably a combination of astroturfing and media libs with incel hot takes. ofc now it seems like they were doing that to distract from the class war imagery in the movie
it definitely started with Twitter checkies uniformly determining that Joker was a movie for incels six months ago when they saw the trailer, at least

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Serf posted:

libs love licking boots so seeing cops get killed and beat down makes them feel bad

I mean yeah but even with the most sympathetic angle the joker is still a bad guy who is mentally ill.

like getting sad when a cop bites it in an action movie

Serf
May 5, 2011




CharlestheHammer posted:

I mean yeah but even with the most sympathetic angle the joker is still a bad guy who is mentally ill.

like getting sad when a cop bites it in an action movie

true, but the movie is about the systemic failures that lead to him doing all the stuff that he does. if they hadn't cut funding for mental health programs and if the nastiness of capitalism hadn't hosed him over so badly nothing would've happened

also its funny that we're discussing nolan and todd phillips because they're the only two directors that warner brothers gives blanket final cut permission to

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



get that OUT of my face posted:

reading Felix Biederman's review of Joker confirmed the thought i've been having for months about it: it's a profoundly OK movie that won't be remembered after Thanksgiving. you know, the same thing that happened with Wonder Woman and Ghostbusters 2016 before it

i havent heard a single person talk about wonder woman, captain marvel, ghostbusters, black panther or even the infinity war/endgame poo poo since those movies came out. only the last jedi really seems to have made an impression because it triggered a great schism in star wars fans

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



Serf posted:

true, but the movie is about the systemic failures that lead to him doing all the stuff that he does. if they hadn't cut funding for mental health programs and if the nastiness of capitalism hadn't hosed him over so badly nothing would've happened

also its funny that we're discussing nolan and todd phillips because they're the only two directors that warner brothers gives blanket final cut permission to
is it like a fight club type situation where the director might've meant one thing but the actual filmmakign suggests something else?

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


people talk about black panther a lot here. but in like the Phil greaves way

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Farm Frenzy posted:

is it like a fight club type situation where the director might've meant one thing but the actual filmmakign suggests something else?

from what Iíve seen from reviews itís pretty blunt and kind of shallow with its criticisms.

Serf
May 5, 2011




Farm Frenzy posted:

is it like a fight club type situation where the director might've meant one thing but the actual filmmakign suggests something else?

my opinion is that the movie has a pretty radical message because phillips is a huge moron. he wanted to play with the themes of anti-capitalism and revolution, but didn't do the typical hollywood thing of showing the revolutionaries doing bad stuff. given his comments about the far left i gotta assume this was pure incompetence

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007



CharlestheHammer posted:

people talk about black panther a lot here. but in like the Phil greaves way
i still hear and see references to Wakanda, but all of the other movies that Farm Frenzy mentioned have disappeared into the aether because they were, at best, serviceable movies without anything that made them stand out

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk




Serf posted:

my opinion is that the movie has a pretty radical message because phillips is a huge moron. he wanted to play with the themes of anti-capitalism and revolution, but didn't do the typical hollywood thing of showing the revolutionaries doing bad stuff. given his comments about the far left i gotta assume this was pure incompetence

phoenix's dialogue with de niro at the end is basically laying out all of the subtext on the table and slapping the audience in the face with "HEY IN CASE YOU DIDN'T PICK UP ON ALL OF THE TERRIBLY NOT-SUBTLE CLUES IN THE MOVIE, HERE'S THE MAIN MESSAGE I'M TRYING TO CONVEY". if somehow that scene was included and philips thought it wasn't surfacing an eat-the-rich agenda, then the dude is astoundingly incompetent.

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007



am i just being jaded towards modern-day pop culture, or are modern-day blockbusters even less subtle than ever when it comes to messaging, particularly of the pro-capitalist/neoliberal variety?

Serf
May 5, 2011




Freaking Crumbum posted:

phoenix's dialogue with de niro at the end is basically laying out all of the subtext on the table and slapping the audience in the face with "HEY IN CASE YOU DIDN'T PICK UP ON ALL OF THE TERRIBLY NOT-SUBTLE CLUES IN THE MOVIE, HERE'S THE MAIN MESSAGE I'M TRYING TO CONVEY". if somehow that scene was included and philips thought it wasn't surfacing an eat-the-rich agenda, then the dude is astoundingly incompetent.

i'm just trying to reconcile that being in the movie with his dumbass comments about how the far left is responsible for the backlash (that led to it having a record-breaking opening weekend lol)

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StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









i think it's possible he was trying to do a sorta radlib thing about how if you treat the poor badly they'll do stupid things like start a revolution maybe? idk havent seen it

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