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Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Freaking Crumbum posted:

yeah, but batman wasn't created as some kind of socialist or communist themed hero who fought for the common good of the proletariat by waging war against their capitalist oppressors.

he was always a vigilante that beat up "criminals" out of some misguided desire to make the city safer. the thing is, there wasn't as much social savvy back then about the whole idea that criminals tend to be disproportionately represented by members of the lower classes (and often statistically biased heavily towards minorities / POC) and that by only ever assaulting petty criminals, batman was low-key beating up colored poors for his jollies. it also failed to ever examine the more complex elements of crime, like what social conditions were creating so many criminals in the first place or how bruce wayne just being a millionaire / billionaire playboy meant that his own existence was enabled by the same economic systems that caused the disenfranchised to turn to crime

batman maybe became an out and proud fascist after miller got his turn at the wheel, but batman was a monster for his entire existence. maybe at first just because of a general naivety about what causes someone to commit a criminal act and/or a lack of intellectual curiosity to explore the idea of crime beyond the immediate superficial definition (why is it happening, what's causing people to make these choices, etc.) which is why, for me, batman as a character only works in an era where it's assumed there's less sophistication about income inequality and wealth stratification and etc.

trying to paint a billionaire as the unambiguous hero and good guy of the story because he leverages his vast resources to create a variety of extravagant gadgets by which he can brutalize criminals (which are almost exclusively people from the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder) is laughably tone deaf in TYOOL 2019. until he crashes through the window of a goldman sachs boardroom during their quarterly shareholder earnings call and kicks the poo poo out of a bunch of wealthy assholes, he's going to be an increasingly antiquated and embarrassing super hero

I think the only awareness about this on the whole by creators not trying to push a particular agenda (Miller) is the start of the fig leaf where his giant corporation does a shitton of charitable giving and has a load of charitable foundations to its name and tries to keep its hands clean of any weapons development or how Bruce will occasionally direct any people in need that he sees or saves to either one of his charities or his friend, Leslie Tompkins who receives tons of donations from him for her free clinic. All of this depends on who's the writer at any given time though and how much focus these elements are given, but generally, it up to the particular writer and what scope they want for Batman.

The Green Arrow series definitely examined that more closely at the end of its run before, but it ended before it really explored an even deeper criticism from the left for a character already considered to be relatively Left leaning.

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Equeen
Oct 29, 2011

Pole dance~


Serf posted:

i'm watching dragon ball and this show is one sex joke after another. every episode seems to find more indignities to heap onto poor bulma jesus christ

Wait until you see child Chi-Chi’s clothes. A fuckin battle bikini on a kid barely older than Goku at the time.

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

I'll leave the past in the past, tomorrow's not promised
And today's just an anime titty I guess that's why it's the present







the Wayne Foundation sounds good until you learn about how it led the push to introduce charter schools into Gotham and was complicit in sex trafficking in Latveria

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

by Cyrano4747


Atrocious Joe posted:

Batman was created in 1939, which was a time when socialist and communist movements were far stronger than they are today. I don't think blaming the time period of the character's creation is the reason the character sucks in a lot of stuff.

The 1970s O'Neil/Adams runs, 1980s Frank Miller run, and The Killing Joke probably cemented Batman being a monster. They combined a higher quality product with a "serious" tone. It's been a while since I read them, so they may be more nuanced than I really remember. They definitely had trash imitators and successors that basically just reproduced straight fash Batman stories though. Before all that he was a goofy rich guy fighting goofy villains.

And he's moved back in that direction over the last decade or so in large part thanks to Morrison going "I thought it was hosed up to write about a rich man beating the poo poo out of the poor" and unilaterally not doing that anymore

It's also worth noting that in his war on crime Bruce Wayne spends at least as much of his infinite money on creating charities to help people in poverty as he does on being Batman, and employs a lot of guys at Wayne * that used to be henchmen

Because he knows that the way to really beat crime is to make it so nobody has to do crime to survive

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

by Cyrano4747


But also I just enjoy Batman so everything I say about him should be taken with a handfil of salt it's not like he's Dredd

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

I kinda smiled at the idea of turning Wayne Manor into a gigantic halfway house

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


I can see how Batman could work better if he were explicitly doing community policing and very pointedly refuse to work with actual cops because acab. This would require him not to be a rich guy so he'd actually have a community to live in tho

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



woke batman.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

whatever marginal advantage the racial justice protestors gained from being masked was greatly outweighed by the fact that the racial justice protests were larger than the covid protests by a scale or two of magnitude

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

someone brought up Zootopia in the bad thread and it reminded me of something that bothered me. I've only seen it once so maybe I missed something or am misremembering, but the whole "predators vs. prey" framing they use to discuss racism really bothered me, because the predators are meant to be seen as a mistreated underclass that have to suppress their inborn primal urges lest they hurt the innocent non-predators around them

this doesn't work as an analogy for a thousand obvious reasons imo and I really loving hated it

wait which thread is the bad thread i made this thread because pop culture chat kept leaking into inappropriate cspam threads i didnt think i was replacing a bad d and d version or something

to better address your point in the context of zootopia the inborn primal urges are something thats made up solely so that evil herbivores can take power and unperson the carnivores

this is not however a metaphor that makes very much sense since unless there was once a time when carnivores were actually eating herbivores just to be assholes the entire existence of this stereotype is nonsensical

the analogy really doesnt work for even more basic reasons than that though since there are massive physical differences between the various animals that do not even remotely map to racial prejudice in the real world

Serf posted:

i'm watching dragon ball and this show is one sex joke after another. every episode seems to find more indignities to heap onto poor bulma jesus christ

the original or super i vaguely remember that z sidestepped the sexism issues by just making the plot be about stereotypical anime fights

yes i am aware that term is anachronistic in this context since dragon ball z is the show that created those stereotypes in the first place

Serf
May 5, 2011




Some Guy TT posted:

the original or super i vaguely remember that z sidestepped the sexism issues by just making the plot be about stereotypical anime fights

yes i am aware that term is anachronistic in this context since dragon ball z is the show that created those stereotypes in the first place

the original. in the last episode i watched bulma gets roofied by the horny pigman character and his plan is to grope her while she's asleep. the show also seems to treat panties like currency

Equeen
Oct 29, 2011

Pole dance~


Don’t forget the several episodes of her wearing a playboy bunny costume.

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo


Grimey Drawer

dragon Ball super has a thing where roshi has to train for a while to not be a horny pervert all the time.

because it's a weakness in a fight you see, not because being a sex pest is bad.

Serf
May 5, 2011




also i never thought i would see goku's dick and balls so many times

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


dragonball is insanely creepy with Bulma yeah. Though it shouldn’t be a surprise Toryiama literally wrote a comic where the punchline was rape

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011


Remember when Batman had a villain in the early 2000s that was just a teenaged anarchist

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007



Forceholy posted:

What did you guys think about the South Park episode about this very subject? I thought it was OK, but Parker and Stone are libertarians who are rich enough to not face reprocussions. The episode did get South Park "banned" in China, but it's not like they will give a poo poo.
who gives a poo poo about South Park anymore? it's almost exclusively relied on topical humor for years now. the political bent of such episodes has been discussed to death, so i won't bother doing that. instead i'll talk about it from a comedy angle- those episodes are destined to age terribly, and many of them already have. for a show that famously trashed Family Guy, it shares the same kind of winking and nudging "reference as the joke" humor that assumes that you get the joke

net work error
Feb 26, 2011

#essereFerrari


The season of anime that just ended had a few shows about totally not America and their horrible immigration policies and practices being the bad guy. We are the baddies.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



get that OUT of my face posted:

who gives a poo poo about South Park anymore? it's almost exclusively relied on topical humor for years now. the political bent of such episodes has been discussed to death, so i won't bother doing that. instead i'll talk about it from a comedy angle- those episodes are destined to age terribly, and many of them already have. for a show that famously trashed Family Guy, it shares the same kind of winking and nudging "reference as the joke" humor that assumes that you get the joke

Basically this but the episode is pretty good anyways and good on them for taking one for the team, I guess. I will say watching South Park reckon with its past over the last couple years has been interesting to me if nothing else.

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



south park is the only comedy series ive seen that got really poo poo and then actually turned it around and got a little better

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk




get that OUT of my face posted:

who gives a poo poo about South Park anymore?

i'm loving stunned that both the simpsons, family guy and south park are still being aired with regular new seasons. i cannot fathom the audience for these ancient rear end shows that all had their peak decades ago yet will apparently exist in syndication in perpetuity until the eventual heat death of the universe.

i mean i know the answer is that they're still wildly lucrative from a licensing and merchandising perspective, but i can't even imagine who is buying the toys and lunch boxes and graphic tees, nor for whom they are being purchased. is it an entire economy of confused grandparents that know their grandkid liked the simpsons back in 1998 and now forever buy bart simpson "eat my shorts man" merchandise any time they pass it at wal-mart?

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



Some Guy TT posted:

wait which thread is the bad thread i made this thread because pop culture chat kept leaking into inappropriate cspam threads i didnt think i was replacing a bad d and d version or something

I just use that phrase to mean the D&D primary thread specifically

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

whatever marginal advantage the racial justice protestors gained from being masked was greatly outweighed by the fact that the racial justice protests were larger than the covid protests by a scale or two of magnitude

huh i thought you might be referring to the cined animation thread which definitely has some d and d elements namely their guileless willingness to assume the best about disney and pixars production practices

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007



MasterSitsu posted:

Basically this but the episode is pretty good anyways and good on them for taking one for the team, I guess. I will say watching South Park reckon with its past over the last couple years has been interesting to me if nothing else.
sorry if it felt like that post was targeting you, i didn't mean to do that. it just feels like South Park isn't in the general public consciousness anymore

Farm Frenzy posted:

south park is the only comedy series ive seen that got really poo poo and then actually turned it around and got a little better
i heard that the first season that had a season-wide arc was good, but it reverted to trash in short order

Freaking Crumbum posted:

i'm loving stunned that both the simpsons, family guy and south park are still being aired with regular new seasons. i cannot fathom the audience for these ancient rear end shows that all had their peak decades ago yet will apparently exist in syndication in perpetuity until the eventual heat death of the universe.
in addition to the answer you gave, at least with South Park it's cheap to make, so cheap that the creators can just crank out an episode the week before it airs. then again, low cost of production and creators that wanted to keep going until they got bored didn't save Aqua Teen Hunger Force

Proletarian Mango
May 21, 2011



Honestly I can't remember the last time I saw any merchandise for Simpsons and South Park in any store. Where can you even get Bart shirts and Cartman coffee mugs and the like?

Percelus
Sep 9, 2012

My command, your wish is



Upmarket Mango posted:

Honestly I can't remember the last time I saw any merchandise for Simpsons and South Park in any store. Where can you even get Bart shirts and Cartman coffee mugs and the like?

do what south americans do and make your own imo, gently caress copyright laws



hypebeast

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk




get that OUT of my face posted:

sorry if it felt like that post was targeting you, i didn't mean to do that. it just feels like South Park isn't in the general public consciousness anymore

i heard that the first season that had a season-wide arc was good, but it reverted to trash in short order

in addition to the answer you gave, at least with South Park it's cheap to make, so cheap that the creators can just crank out an episode the week before it airs. then again, low cost of production and creators that wanted to keep going until they got bored didn't save Aqua Teen Hunger Force

the wild thing with the simpsons is, every time there's a dispute between the VAs and FOX about whether or not they'll sign on for X more seasons, the VAs all demand absurd salary increases and they almost always got them! fox is paying each of the simpsons VAs $300,000 dollars per episode, and what are they earning back on that? is buying commercial air-time during the simpsons as expensive as purchasing an ad slot during the superbowl? if they aren't covering the cost by selling advertising, where else are they making up the profit?

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010




KomradeX posted:

Remember when Batman had a villain in the early 2000s that was just a teenaged anarchist

by far the best part of arkham origins too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvIRIfclsXI

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

by Cyrano4747


KomradeX posted:

Remember when Batman had a villain in the early 2000s that was just a teenaged anarchist

Created by Alan "humor is bad for Dredd because it detracts from the message that fascism is bad" Grant

You know

Inarguably the second most important guy to work on the character

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



get that OUT of my face posted:



i heard that the first season that had a season-wide arc was good, but it reverted to trash in short order


Yes and no, in that the season relied on Hillary winning the election, and since they don't plan far enough ahead, they were kind of left scrambling to tie everything back together.

Percelus
Sep 9, 2012

My command, your wish is



southpark peaked with the dawson creek trapper keeper episode and all of their hot takes on current events are total garbage ranging from climate change denial, cheerleading for the iraq war, cheerleading for prosecution of whistleblowers, the list goes on

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

by Cyrano4747


Weird way to spell Scott Tenorman

But really any episode that's just kids being assholes and everything getting out of hand (or adults being idiots and everything getting out of hand) I'd probably fine, it's when they try to have a point or reference pop culture that it falls apart

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

by Cyrano4747


Like the one where everyone decides to ignore Cartman but th h forget to tell butters so they think Cartman is dead and only butters can see him and they're making fruit baskets to atone for csrtmans many sins is wonderful

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004


CharlestheHammer posted:

dragonball is insanely creepy with Bulma yeah. Though it shouldn’t be a surprise Toryiama literally wrote a comic where the punchline was rape

Was that Dr Slump

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


Serf posted:

i'm watching dragon ball and this show is one sex joke after another. every episode seems to find more indignities to heap onto poor bulma jesus christ

would you rather it be about a really strong guy showing up and the cast having to deal with that

Uncle Wemus posted:

Was that Dr Slump

no it was a one-shot about a lady who wanted to be a super hero but ended up getting raped. by a dude who looked suspciously like the tournament announcer from dragonball. and became prostitute as a result

angerbeet
Mar 23, 2004




Kumiko The Treasure Hunter is really loving good but it's impossible to convince anyone of that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8htA6LR6u-Y

Anyways watch it

Serf
May 5, 2011




Stairmaster posted:

would you rather it be about a really strong guy showing up and the cast having to deal with that

dbz was good, yeah. but i am enjoying dragon ball just for how weird it is

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007



Percelus posted:

southpark peaked with the dawson creek trapper keeper episode and all of their hot takes on current events are total garbage ranging from climate change denial, cheerleading for the iraq war, cheerleading for prosecution of whistleblowers, the list goes on
i hear that they've recently toned down with putting out a lot of the political perspective episodes, is that true? if nothing else, we have Scott Tenorman and Faith Plus One

Proletarian Mango
May 21, 2011



from what I’ve seen cartman has gone from being a outright nazi shithead to being “woke” and pc to the point of parody but I don’t watch it regularly so maybe the nazi stuff is still there too somewhere

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get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007



the tragedy of Trey and Matt is that they can be really funny when they want to, but they'd rather preach. kind of like a lot of mainstream comedy in general, except for their different politics

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