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peanut-
Feb 17, 2004
Fun Shoe
I like a TTT but including one in the Tour would just blow up the GC chances for anyone outside maybe the 5 biggest teams (or realistically, anyone except Jumbo as long as Wout is like this).

Who is actually at the Vuelta? Seems like Bernal is a no, Roglic is probably a no with two fractured vertebrae. I really doubt Pog will turn up. Is it just the Remco show?

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Peggotty
May 9, 2014

I can't find odds for the Vuelta on any of the betting sites so it looks like the bookmakers have no idea either.

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

goatface posted:

That would be hard in a three week grand tour.

Nah, 100KM time trial at the end of week one.
150km team time trial at the end of week 2.

Both flat.

Thatíll gently caress-up the climby men.

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

Peggotty posted:

I can't find odds for the Vuelta on any of the betting sites so it looks like the bookmakers have no idea either.

The teams donít even know 100% whoís gonna be riding, seems pointless to bet now.

peanut- posted:

I like a TTT but including one in the Tour would just blow up the GC chances for anyone outside maybe the 5 biggest teams (or realistically, anyone except Jumbo as long as Wout is like this).

Yeah thereís so much competition from small/poor teams for GC right now isnít there, be terrible to lose thatÖ

A TTT and longer TTs are essential to actually impact the climby men and differentiate the categories a bit more.

peanut-
Feb 17, 2004
Fun Shoe
A long time trial and a TTT are not equivalent, they would have a totally different impact on the race. A TTT is just going to guarantee whatever climber gets to sit behind WvA or Ganna will win the overall. Which may be the same outcome as we currently have, but it makes it even more certain.

That said, the Tour is already being won by dominant time trialists. Unless the goal is to design a bizarre parcours specifically for Wout to win yellow I don't see what throwing long flat TTs in would really achieve.

What would change about this years Tour if it had a 100km flat TT? Vingegaard might have come third behind Pogacar and Thomas instead.

StarkingBarfish
Jun 25, 2006

Novus Ordo Seclorum

Smirr posted:

Stage 5 of the TDFF is 175 km long, which made me do a double take because that's by far the longest women's race (not just stage) I've ever seen. And sure enough, it's above the upper limit for WWT races (160 km, same as for Olympic and WC races).

Also, stage 4 has shitloads of gravel.

Yeah, I've mixed feelings about the TdFF, because while this is better than they've had before, it's still a long way away from a full tour. The fact that WWT races have that limit is shameful IMO. Unless something has changed since I last looked, most of the research pointed to women performing as well as, or better than the men over long distances. Any physiological differences tend to act over shorter efforts. It'd be nice to have a full length tour for the women, especially since as a younger sport with greener teams there's much more opportunity for upsets and combativity. I get that money is an issue for the teams but the men's take could be subsidising it.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

wooger posted:

Nah, 100KM time trial at the end of week one.
150km team time trial at the end of week 2.

Both flat.

Thatíll gently caress-up the climby men.

Agreed, Quintana, Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet have had it too easy - extend that gap to the podium (all of whom can TT very well)

Hegay
Jun 29, 2012

StarkingBarfish posted:

Yeah, I've mixed feelings about the TdFF, because while this is better than they've had before, it's still a long way away from a full tour. The fact that WWT races have that limit is shameful IMO. Unless something has changed since I last looked, most of the research pointed to women performing as well as, or better than the men over long distances. Any physiological differences tend to act over shorter efforts. It'd be nice to have a full length tour for the women, especially since as a younger sport with greener teams there's much more opportunity for upsets and combativity. I get that money is an issue for the teams but the men's take could be subsidising it.

Wrong lol

StarkingBarfish
Jun 25, 2006

Novus Ordo Seclorum

Hegay posted:

Wrong lol

Care to elaborate?

e: Not to put the onus on you to prove my half-assed opinion on it wrong, just not sure if you mean the research indicates otherwise or if you just reckon a full tour for the women is a dumb idea

StarkingBarfish fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Jul 25, 2022

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

StarkingBarfish posted:

Yeah, I've mixed feelings about the TdFF, because while this is better than they've had before, it's still a long way away from a full tour. The fact that WWT races have that limit is shameful IMO. Unless something has changed since I last looked, most of the research pointed to women performing as well as, or better than the men over long distances. Any physiological differences tend to act over shorter efforts. It'd be nice to have a full length tour for the women, especially since as a younger sport with greener teams there's much more opportunity for upsets and combativity. I get that money is an issue for the teams but the men's take could be subsidising it.

Itís a big loss leader to help womenís sport in the long run. The money from the mens side is already subsidising it.

The sponsors and organisers and especially the teams are prepared to go this far, but a 3 week tour is not worth it to them at present. The name will help, maybe, but being up against the Womenís Euros wonít help - how much sport can people be bothered with watching on TV when itís warm outside?

See what the tv audiences do, but with the Womenís Giro having the worst possible scheduling and the TdFF being scheduled just after people have binged on the TdF for 3 weeks, hard to see a breakthrough.

The week before the TdF would be the best scheduling imo.

StarkingBarfish
Jun 25, 2006

Novus Ordo Seclorum

wooger posted:

Itís a big loss leader to help womenís sport in the long run. The money from the mens side is already subsidising it.

The sponsors and organisers and especially the teams are prepared to go this far, but a 3 week tour is not worth it to them at present. The name will help, maybe, but being up against the Womenís Euros wonít help - how much sport can people be bothered with watching on TV when itís warm outside?

See what the tv audiences do, but with the Womenís Giro having the worst possible scheduling and the TdFF being scheduled just after people have binged on the TdF for 3 weeks, hard to see a breakthrough.

The week before the TdF would be the best scheduling imo.

Oh for sure, I don't doubt it's spendy but I also wonder how much of that is a catch 22, if it's not on the air or relegated to weird timeslots it's not getting eyes on the sponsors. The Women's Euros this year are really well covered at least in the UK. It felt a bit like a turning point. I'd love it if the same happened to the Women's tour.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

At one point the organizers hated the GC impacts that TTTs had so much that they had a special rule that as long as you finished within the time cut, you couldn't lose more than 2 minutes of GC on it or something.


The only people who like TTTs are bike companies because they get a lot of photo ops for ads.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



These crashes are horrific

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C
Brutal crash there.

Smirr
Jun 28, 2012

Jeez, you weren't kidding

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Feels Villeneuve posted:

At one point the organizers hated the GC impacts that TTTs had so much that they had a special rule that as long as you finished within the time cut, you couldn't lose more than 2 minutes of GC on it or something.


The only people who like TTTs are bike companies because they get a lot of photo ops for ads.

I love TTTs because I love chaos OP

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



These ladies are gone. Super strong

Smirr
Jun 28, 2012

Man, this race is hosed to hell and back

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
TTT covering a full transition stage.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Peloton has given up on this

Smirr
Jun 28, 2012

I wonder if we'll see some prime cyclist brain from that front group.

Apparently people are already starting to lean on Trek, lol

Smirr
Jun 28, 2012

?

???

StarkingBarfish
Jun 25, 2006

Novus Ordo Seclorum
Longo goes long

Smirr
Jun 28, 2012

I guess Balsamo bonked her way almost all the way back to Group Ludwig

peanut-
Feb 17, 2004
Fun Shoe
The CN live updates just informed me that there's an FDJ rider named Evita Music.

paddyboat
Feb 20, 2013

Maxi, Maxi Rodriguez
Run down the wing for me
croiky

https://twitter.com/canalbiciglifos/status/1551568852986765319?s=21&t=mosC9q4f4SFcHDigA4sv1g

StarkingBarfish
Jun 25, 2006

Novus Ordo Seclorum

Oof

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.


Did her brakes fail or something? Just rode into everyone full speed

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007


me on a group ride with my 80s bike with old Campagnolo Record rim brakes

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Loving Africa Chaps posted:

Did her brakes fail or something? Just rode into everyone full speed

There's a shot from behind that shows that she was leading a chase group just behind the main group when the crash happened - being charitable she was just head down full aero tunnel vision

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
That mark she leaves on the road looks painful.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



goatface posted:

That mark she leaves on the road looks painful.

Iím hoping thatís a gel packet or something

Time
Aug 1, 2011

It Was All A Dream
I have decidedÖthat wout is cool

Smirr
Jun 28, 2012

https://twitter.com/simongeschke/status/1551900889786580992?t=i3IkYeDf6L8s_cCGgBNHtA&s=19

ohhyeah
Mar 24, 2016
Parkhotel has a nice jersey. Canyon SRAM also looks surprisingly good in motion.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Haha the Cofidis rider trying to get away passed like she was standing still by Kopecky

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



The crashes have returned

peanut-
Feb 17, 2004
Fun Shoe
Think they really want to crash a bit less

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

crashes are the one way for cycling to get on TV here so they should crash more imo. hopefully involving something stupid like a lady with a cardboard sign

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Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C

Feels Villeneuve posted:

crashes are the one way for cycling to get on TV here so they should crash more imo. hopefully involving something stupid like a lady with a cardboard sign

The photographer at the top of the last climb almost took that role.

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