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FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

hobbesmaster posted:

my dad is an astronomer and said these guys would up in person in the 90s. email only is probably a godsend
a friend of mine went to cornell in the 1980s and got a work-study job in carl sagans office. his main task was to sorting all the cranks and kooks out of the daily mail. it kept him pretty busy

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olorum
Apr 24, 2021



BobHoward posted:

2. MOND vs. dark matter isn't settled by any means, except in the sense that as per #1, we know MOND can't really be a "winner"

In a sense dark matter is more conservative in that it doesn't require changing the theory, but given that we don't have a description of quantum gravity from general relativity we know that the theory will have to change anyway.

In another sense, MOND and dark matter have more or less equal standing given that they're both ad hoc extensions of what we currently know that explain some weird observed phenomena. Dark matter is a bit like neutrinos (which were a bit of a fringe idea until they were detected) and MOND is a bit like Kepler's laws (which modified the Copernican heliocentric model which was the prevailing theory at the time; Kepler's laws were a step in the right direction but didn't make for a real theory)

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005



otoh i think feyerabend is correct that the philosophy of science in poppers mold is naively absolute on those points. if the scientific community already invested in and subjectively molded by current theories held new theories to the standard of covering *strictly more* than an old theory before committing any work very little progress would ever be made. e.g. geocentrism had vast libraries of correct practical observations, through what now appears as ridiculous levels of complexity and parameter bloat, but subjectively it did not seem complex to people who already fully accepted it as correct.

not to say that one should just onboard whatever (and certainly no clue whatsoever about dark matter and mond), but it is in the nature of things that a new theory will usually have giant pieces missing, and it gets real subjective whether that is because of work not yet done or because of fatal flaws.

man in the eyeball hat
Dec 23, 2006

Capture the opening of the portal that connects this earth of 3D to one earth of 4D or 5D. Going to the 5D.



rjmccall posted:

in an attempt to sideline him for awhile, i taught him to use latex
i cant wait to retire so i can just write latex all day and never have to worry about my program working ever again. it taps into that same part of my brain that wants to endlessly configure my work setup

fritz
Jul 26, 2003



PaulHoule 1 hour ago | prev | next [–]

There are many men who suffer through sexless marriages for 20, 30 years or more because their partner was victimized as a child. (I'd assume that some women also have similar problems because their man was abused.)
Such a man can work really hard to please and love a woman and try to create feelings of safety. They might blame themselves, thinking that it's because of that argument they had this morning, or yesterday, or last week, or two years ago, or the time the bed collapsed when they were having sex 25 years ago. But no, the woman doesn't feel safe because of something that happened 40 years ago that didn't have anything to do with them. The need for safety is a bottomless pit. Maybe the woman sees that the man is trying really hard and fakes a response but it's not real and the man sees that and it never blossoms into real mutual satisfaction.
It' s completely frustrating because the woman has adjusted well to being asexual. Perhaps she could struggle through three years of therapy to attempt to change, but it is unlikely to be effective because she's not doing it for herself. The man, on the other hand, might be willing to plumb the depths of hell or storm the gates of heaven to change things but it's pushing on a string.
(If the man has been traumatized by child bullying and subsequent sexual invisibility, rejection and being shut out from dating in high school they can be re-traumatized continuously by this demonstration that they are unlovable.)
I was reading about how the actor Danny Masterson had drugged and raped women, stealing their sexuality not just from them but from their partners. Thus a single act of abuse affects not just the direct victim but their lovers, their children, and many others in the community.
In the past two years we've seen a normalization of doing things over video and there has been an explosion in things like camgirling and OnlyFans -- many of the performers are people who had their sexuality distorted by abuse and I'm sure than many of the men who become victims of it (paying $1000 for a jar of farts, spending $80 for an Aella video) have themselves been victimized ) or are suffering because their partner or potential partners were abused.
reply


PaulHoule 21 minutes ago | root | parent | next [–]

I don't know where you get that.
The suffering of the woman is real. So is the suffering of the man.
It only adds and doesn't subtract. I don't need to reiterate on the suffering of the woman because that is described very well in the article (which i posted!)
You're being insensitive, treating me as a man the way that a black person might get treated in the 1950s south USA. Sexual pleasure is one of the great things about being alive in this world. If that was destroyed for a woman by female circumcision you would see that as a bad thing. If circumstances did the same for a man it is not any different.
A man in a situation like that will get told to "leave" and that is not a good answer for many. For one there are many other kinds of love and a person in that kind of relationship might be able to give and receive all of the other kinds of love except for that.
So many people try "serial monogamy" and it so often ends in tears. In terms of sexuality a man like that might be satisfied by a woman with average sexual responsiveness or even a standard deviation below the mean. That person is easy to find, but be much more difficult to find somebody who has all the other good traits of the current partner.
A man like that might have strong loyalty and also feel that their current partner deserves to be loved in all the ways they are able to receive it even if their partner can't receive it.
An obvious answer is polyamory and the women might well be accepting of that but if you were the kid who was bullied in school and then rejected, made invisible, and then suffered years of self-doubt because of somebody else's crime succeeding at polyamory can look like climbing a mountain.
A woman can be very insensitive about this because a woman who wants a sexual relationship, snap their fingers, and get it. Some men who want that can get it but most can't. There is a huge focus on a small population of men who are abusive, attractive, rich or some combination, the experience of the vast majority of men is invisible.
reply


PaulHoule 58 minutes ago | root | parent | prev | next [–]

It's not in the "future", it is a lived reality of many men and women today because of something that happened in the past.
Some women can be high functioning in every other aspect of their life and be rather well adjusted to being asexual.
In theory a woman could benefit from several years of therapy and hard inner work but it is going be much less fruitful if they are doing it because of somebody else.
A man can be completely dedicated and loving towards a woman who isn't responsive, want to grow old with them, be giving love in many ways and be very willing to give more and very motivated to work towards change but face the reality that anything they do is "pushing on a string"
It's a cruel reality that Aella's sexuality is worth $103,000 a month but that a man's sexuality is worth negative. A man who comes clean in public about their experiences and feelings inevitably attracts insensitive comments and abuse simply because of their gender. It is one of the many double binds that we face that we're told on one hand that we're supposed to open up emotionally but we get consistently punished when we do so.
reply

Best Bi Geek Squid
Mar 25, 2016


fritz posted:

PaulHoule 1 hour ago | prev | next [–]

There are many men who suffer through sexless marriages for 20, 30 years or more because their partner was victimized as a child. (I'd assume that some women also have similar problems because their man was abused.)
Such a man can work really hard to please and love a woman and try to create feelings of safety. They might blame themselves, thinking that it's because of that argument they had this morning, or yesterday, or last week, or two years ago, or the time the bed collapsed when they were having sex 25 years ago. But no, the woman doesn't feel safe because of something that happened 40 years ago that didn't have anything to do with them. The need for safety is a bottomless pit. Maybe the woman sees that the man is trying really hard and fakes a response but it's not real and the man sees that and it never blossoms into real mutual satisfaction.
It' s completely frustrating because the woman has adjusted well to being asexual. Perhaps she could struggle through three years of therapy to attempt to change, but it is unlikely to be effective because she's not doing it for herself. The man, on the other hand, might be willing to plumb the depths of hell or storm the gates of heaven to change things but it's pushing on a string.
(If the man has been traumatized by child bullying and subsequent sexual invisibility, rejection and being shut out from dating in high school they can be re-traumatized continuously by this demonstration that they are unlovable.)
I was reading about how the actor Danny Masterson had drugged and raped women, stealing their sexuality not just from them but from their partners. Thus a single act of abuse affects not just the direct victim but their lovers, their children, and many others in the community.
In the past two years we've seen a normalization of doing things over video and there has been an explosion in things like camgirling and OnlyFans -- many of the performers are people who had their sexuality distorted by abuse and I'm sure than many of the men who become victims of it (paying $1000 for a jar of farts, spending $80 for an Aella video) have themselves been victimized ) or are suffering because their partner or potential partners were abused.
reply


PaulHoule 21 minutes ago | root | parent | next [–]

I don't know where you get that.
The suffering of the woman is real. So is the suffering of the man.
It only adds and doesn't subtract. I don't need to reiterate on the suffering of the woman because that is described very well in the article (which i posted!)
You're being insensitive, treating me as a man the way that a black person might get treated in the 1950s south USA. Sexual pleasure is one of the great things about being alive in this world. If that was destroyed for a woman by female circumcision you would see that as a bad thing. If circumstances did the same for a man it is not any different.
A man in a situation like that will get told to "leave" and that is not a good answer for many. For one there are many other kinds of love and a person in that kind of relationship might be able to give and receive all of the other kinds of love except for that.
So many people try "serial monogamy" and it so often ends in tears. In terms of sexuality a man like that might be satisfied by a woman with average sexual responsiveness or even a standard deviation below the mean. That person is easy to find, but be much more difficult to find somebody who has all the other good traits of the current partner.
A man like that might have strong loyalty and also feel that their current partner deserves to be loved in all the ways they are able to receive it even if their partner can't receive it.
An obvious answer is polyamory and the women might well be accepting of that but if you were the kid who was bullied in school and then rejected, made invisible, and then suffered years of self-doubt because of somebody else's crime succeeding at polyamory can look like climbing a mountain.
A woman can be very insensitive about this because a woman who wants a sexual relationship, snap their fingers, and get it. Some men who want that can get it but most can't. There is a huge focus on a small population of men who are abusive, attractive, rich or some combination, the experience of the vast majority of men is invisible.
reply


PaulHoule 58 minutes ago | root | parent | prev | next [–]

It's not in the "future", it is a lived reality of many men and women today because of something that happened in the past.
Some women can be high functioning in every other aspect of their life and be rather well adjusted to being asexual.
In theory a woman could benefit from several years of therapy and hard inner work but it is going be much less fruitful if they are doing it because of somebody else.
A man can be completely dedicated and loving towards a woman who isn't responsive, want to grow old with them, be giving love in many ways and be very willing to give more and very motivated to work towards change but face the reality that anything they do is "pushing on a string"
It's a cruel reality that Aella's sexuality is worth $103,000 a month but that a man's sexuality is worth negative. A man who comes clean in public about their experiences and feelings inevitably attracts insensitive comments and abuse simply because of their gender. It is one of the many double binds that we face that we're told on one hand that we're supposed to open up emotionally but we get consistently punished when we do so.
reply

sir, this is a McDonald’s

alexandriao
Jul 20, 2019

"What're quantum mechanics?"
"I don't know. People who repair quantums, I suppose."


fritz posted:

Jensson 9 minutes ago | root | parent | next [–]

Those were thanks to labor movements, not unions. They are not the same thing, labor movements happens thanks to Democracy. Democracy is crucial, I agree, it lets groups organize, protest and fix problems with how society works. But what we call unions today are not that.
I'm all for labor engaging in politics, but they can do that without paying union dues for working at a company. The problem USA's workers face today isn't lack of unions, it is lack of proper representation in their democracy.
reply

I think this is a fair opinion if you have encountered corrupt unions. Like to me it reads as someone who would support unions but doesn't feel able to because they feel they are corrupt

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009





alexandriao posted:

I think this is a fair opinion if you have encountered corrupt unions. Like to me it reads as someone who would support unions but doesn't feel able to because they feel they are corrupt

nah it’s bullshit. like blaming poor people for being poor when they gently caress up at all, and rich people are allowed to do whatever stupid poo poo with their money and it’s fine. like if anti “corrupt unions” people are also anti corrupt businesses then that’s fine and I can respect their position. it’s dumb but I can respect it. that’s never the case though, it’s just holding unions to a higher standard than any other organization

rjmccall
Sep 7, 2007

no worries friend

Fun Shoe

fritz posted:

PaulHoule 1 hour ago | prev | next [–]

he’s trying so hard to make this into a reasonable and even empathetic point about how trauma can recur and shape you and the people around you even when the original events are long in the past

but it’s like a cartoon, where alas, you see that he’s just a bit short, and then suddenly the perspective shifts and you see he was never close at all

fritz
Jul 26, 2003



the hackers are talking about that wordle thing and why it isn't monetized and full of ads


deltree7 15 hours ago | prev | next [–]

Money is a natural concept that roughly describes how much value you created.
Eschewing money on the outset seems taking the high-road, but from a value creation and compounding perspective, it is pretty dumb.
If you create value, you better capture the value that you have created, so that you can compound it and give back the goodness 10000x.
Gates / Buffett can deploy Billions to large-scale charity because they captured value.
Elon Musk can deploy his Billions to revolutionize exploration.
If you think Josh is good with no-money, imagine how much good he can do with $10,000,000,000 money.
Paradoxically, Nice people should build wealth. Else, someone else will build wealth and they will deploy it in a not-nice way
reply

mystes
May 31, 2006



Honestly just the title which was something like "how do you feel about wordle not being monetized" (I'm not going to go back and check it) was eye roll inducing enough

DaTroof
Nov 16, 2000

CC LIMERICK CONTEST GRAND CHAMPION
There once was a poster named Troof
Who was getting quite long in the toof


i hope PaulHoule eventually finds happiness, but he's probably doomed to die alone, hapless, and angry

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003



fritz posted:

the hackers are talking about that wordle thing and why it isn't monetized and full of ads


deltree7 15 hours ago | prev | next [–]

Money is a natural concept that roughly describes how much value you created.
Eschewing money on the outset seems taking the high-road, but from a value creation and compounding perspective, it is pretty dumb.
If you create value, you better capture the value that you have created, so that you can compound it and give back the goodness 10000x.
Gates / Buffett can deploy Billions to large-scale charity because they captured value.
Elon Musk can deploy his Billions to revolutionize exploration.
If you think Josh is good with no-money, imagine how much good he can do with $10,000,000,000 money.
Paradoxically, Nice people should build wealth. Else, someone else will build wealth and they will deploy it in a not-nice way
reply

something tells me that they took a dim view of this argument at the poster's child prostitution sentencing hearing

chaosbreather
Dec 9, 2001

Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.



of course if wordle even had ads it wouldn't be anywhere near the sensation that it is, it would be tainted by that poo poo

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010





Bread Liar

Nomnom Cookie posted:

nah it’s bullshit. like blaming poor people for being poor when they gently caress up at all, and rich people are allowed to do whatever stupid poo poo with their money and it’s fine. like if anti “corrupt unions” people are also anti corrupt businesses then that’s fine and I can respect their position. it’s dumb but I can respect it. that’s never the case though, it’s just holding unions to a higher standard than any other organization

there is one union that everyone can rightly hate, though; cops :acab:


mystes posted:

Honestly just the title which was something like "how do you feel about wordle not being monetized" (I'm not going to go back and check it) was eye roll inducing enough

who gives a poo poo. why do they care that the game is free. what is wrong with these people

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle



"You're not extracting the maximum possible value out of everything you do raaaaargh! :supaburn:"

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Zamujasa posted:

who gives a poo poo. why do they care that the game is free. what is wrong with these people
at one apple press event in the mid 2000s, stebe jorbs actually took questions from the assembled journalists (presumably one of the things to be announced was scratched at the last moment leaving a hole in the schedule to fill)

one of the tech journos kept badgering stebe as to why apple didnt cover its computers with promotional stickets. he absolutely could not understand why apple was leaving money on the table by refusing to poo poo up its products with "intel inside" and "powered by nvidia" logos. why is apple turning up its nose at free money?!?

chaosbreather
Dec 9, 2001

Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.



man do those ugly lovely stickers actually generate any attributed sales or is that all bullshit cargo culting from back in the old intel vs ibm days that companies don't know they can just stop now

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010





Bread Liar

FMguru posted:

at one apple press event in the mid 2000s, stebe jorbs actually took questions from the assembled journalists (presumably one of the things to be announced was scratched at the last moment leaving a hole in the schedule to fill)

one of the tech journos kept badgering stebe as to why apple didnt cover its computers with promotional stickets. he absolutely could not understand why apple was leaving money on the table by refusing to poo poo up its products with "intel inside" and "powered by nvidia" logos. why is apple turning up its nose at free money?!?

it's funny because apple does do this, in reverse; they give the customer apple stickers with poo poo they buy and said people slap them on whatever



chaosbreather posted:

man do those ugly lovely stickers actually generate any attributed sales or is that all bullshit cargo culting from back in the old intel vs ibm days that companies don't know they can just stop now

the only good decoration was those old dell towers that had the circle dell logo on the front that you could rotate for vertical/horizontal orientation

or if you were me, just fidget with them and always leave them in the wrong position

CMYK BLYAT!
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

chaosbreather posted:

man do those ugly lovely stickers actually generate any attributed sales or is that all bullshit cargo culting from back in the old intel vs ibm days that companies don't know they can just stop now

it seems to have worked well for intel's brand awareness, which is why that sort of marketing exists. random non-technical peeps probably know what intel is, less so like via or whoever makes their northbridge

mystes
May 31, 2006



CMYK BLYAT! posted:

it seems to have worked well for intel's brand awareness, which is why that sort of marketing exists. random non-technical peeps probably know what intel is, less so like via or whoever makes their northbridge
Isn't all that poo poo integrated in the cpu anyway now?

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005



also hard to tell what the world would have looked like without that intel marketing. so many manufacturers would have tried to sell people garbage. in fact at the time when it launched you could have gone to the store and gotten home to the deep sadness of having bought a cyrix machine. or worse, some company trying to convince you that you should be getting on mips or powerpc or some poo poo.

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009





mystes posted:

Isn't all that poo poo integrated in the cpu anyway now?
yeah for like 10 years now

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

chaosbreather posted:

man do those ugly lovely stickers actually generate any attributed sales or is that all bullshit cargo culting from back in the old intel vs ibm days that companies don't know they can just stop now
it's so the OEM can profit off of Intel's marketing budget in a space with razor thin margins

Plorkyeran
Mar 21, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed


Cybernetic Vermin posted:

also hard to tell what the world would have looked like without that intel marketing. so many manufacturers would have tried to sell people garbage. in fact at the time when it launched you could have gone to the store and gotten home to the deep sadness of having bought a cyrix machine. or worse, some company trying to convince you that you should be getting on mips or powerpc or some poo poo.

yeah, the goal of "intel inside" was to develop the consumer perception that if a salesman tried to sell you a computer with a p166+ that you were getting a lovely knockoff of the well-known brand. the sticker itself wasn't the marketing campaign; it was the thing which the tv ads told you to look for to ensure you weren't getting ripped off. the non-intel stickers did not come with superbowl commercials and were probably just cargo-culting.

cyrix's demise was only loosely related to intel's better marketing (in that better sales perhaps would have let them spend enough to keep up tech-wise), but it's probably a big part of how intel defeated amd.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Chris Knight posted:

it's so the OEM can profit off of Intel's marketing budget in a space with razor thin margins
yeah. for lots of laptops, those stickers (and the fees for pre-installing all that trial software junk) ARE the margin.

apples margins are high enough that they dont need to cover their products like nascar racers to break even, and apple is trying to appeal to an audience composed of people who are willing to pay a little extra to avoid having their gear gunked up with a bunch of stickers

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009





now if only they'd stop putting all that first-party shovelware on macs they'd be halfway decent laptops

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003



but you see last year's mac was a defective piece of poo poo that only complete morons would buy while this year's mac is perfect in every way

tracecomplete
Feb 26, 2017



Progressive JPEG posted:

but you see last year's mac was a defective piece of poo poo that only complete morons would buy while this year's mac is perfect in every way

for once this is almost literally true unless you have strong feelings about screen notches

(ok, slight exaggeration, but the current-gen MBP is the best computer they've made since like 2015)

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?


Zamujasa posted:

the only good decoration was those old dell towers that had the circle dell logo on the front that you could rotate for vertical/horizontal orientation

DEC had this on minis that could be in different orientations in the early 1980s

you could run a BA23 QBus enclosure (MicroPDP, MicroVAX) in either horizontal or vertical orientation, so the model badge could be popped out, rotated, and popped back in during setup, just like the foot could be attached or removed

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003



eschaton posted:

DEC had this on minis that could be in different orientations in the early 1980s

you could run a BA23 QBus enclosure (MicroPDP, MicroVAX) in either horizontal or vertical orientation, so the model badge could be popped out, rotated, and popped back in during setup, just like the foot could be attached or removed

they should have taken inspiration from the PS2 and just let you twist the badge in-place

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008


my guilty pleasure on hn is to see if i can find where people putting up dumb comments work

quote:

Electric is a paradigm shift. What makes you think ICE manufacturers will ever be able to catch Tesla?

guess where our guy started working 2 months ago. you should be fired for being this mentally lazy

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.



Buglord

Penisface posted:

i get that, but does it mean that [the abstract] you spend hours per day in your car zooming in to meetings or what?

does it mean that the typical workday is something like:
8am clock in and start driving to the office, think work thoughts or attend a call or something
9am arrive at the office
12pm lunch
13pm back
3pm start driving back home, thinking work thoughts again
4pm clock out

its just that i haven't heard of any employer being ok with this, c levels with personal drivers excepted of course
that's like 10 working hours per week spent on meetings or something

not to mention that you should in theory be fully concentrated on driving, not arguing about work bullshit at the same time

not what your post is about but the commute is part of the job and should be paid like any other hours at work. this is not a radical or unrealistic demand.

Penisface
Jul 17, 2008

"I am Albino. You wish to see me?"


Improbable Lobster posted:

not what your post is about but the commute is part of the job and should be paid like any other hours at work. this is not a radical or unrealistic demand.

yeah i agree that it should be
i would say though that implementing it IS insanely radical and unrealistic because that’s not how the vast majority of the world is getting paid at the moment and i am having a tough time to imagine how it would work for anyone who cant wfh

just the fact that counting commute time into your daily 8h would directly go against how real estate markets work - ie places closer to work are more expensive and poor folk who cant afford that, spend way more time commuting per day

i suppose you could set up a system where commute time up to 30m one way is counted as work. but then why not just cut 1h from the workday entirely?

Armitag3
Mar 15, 2020

Forget it Jake, it's cybertown.



Penisface posted:

yeah i agree that it should be
i would say though that implementing it IS insanely radical and unrealistic because that’s not how the vast majority of the world is getting paid at the moment and i am having a tough time to imagine how it would work for anyone who cant wfh

just the fact that counting commute time into your daily 8h would directly go against how real estate markets work - ie places closer to work are more expensive and poor folk who cant afford that, spend way more time commuting per day

i suppose you could set up a system where commute time up to 30m one way is counted as work. but then why not just cut 1h from the workday entirely?

I'd say the first option is better because then people are being paid that 1h

Penisface
Jul 17, 2008

"I am Albino. You wish to see me?"


Armitag3 posted:

I'd say the first option is better because then people are being paid that 1h

right, but what's the functional difference between being paid for 7h of work per day (with the implicit assumption of a 1h commute) or 7h+1h of work per day? the total compensation is the same, because we have already established that 1h commuting is worth 1h of work.

i would argue that a 7h work day is better.

because if 7h+1h is "on the clock", this means that your employer will want to have a say in *how* you commute, since they are expicitly paying for it. for example, imagine having to listen to some training podcast or taking customer support calls. imagine having to take the company mandated transport, which is some dingy bus packed to the legal limit with people, filled with loud infomercials because your employer has sold ad space to make up for "lost productivity". how about living in a company dorm?

it will also create bad blood if people compare their commutes. say person A has a 30 minute one way drive and person B has a 10 minute one way drive: in the 7+1 arrangement, does this mean that person A has fully minmaxed their commute and they have to work exactly 7h, while person B is expected to work 7h40 like a chump, just because they happened to live closer?

i agree that people should be paid for their commute, but every way i look at this, the solutions to really make it work are hairy as gently caress

in the end, i feel like implicitly we already do get paid for the commute - we get paid for the work anyway and if the work agreement means that a) you go to the office and b) you clock in-out at this and this hour.

the question is more like "ok hold on wtf the contract says i work 8h per day and yet 10h of my day is spent working or commuting to/from work wow this sucks". and imo the answer to this question is: cut down the hours in the standard workday/workweek.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.



Buglord

Penisface posted:


because if 7h+1h is "on the clock", this means that your employer will want to have a say in *how* you commute, since they are expicitly paying for it.

gently caress em. they don't get a legal say on my paid breaks or my lunch. they have to pay me for poo poo they don't control all the time.

i have a good union so i know most jobs don't have the same luxuries that i do but workers have rights that should be expanded. gently caress the bosses.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.



Buglord

Penisface posted:

because if 7h+1h is "on the clock", this means that your employer will want to have a say in *how* you commute, since they are expicitly paying for it. for example, imagine having to listen to some training podcast or taking customer support calls. imagine having to take the company mandated transport, which is some dingy bus packed to the legal limit with people, filled with loud infomercials because your employer has sold ad space to make up for "lost productivity". how about living in a company dorm?

a bunch of SV companies have tried to sell this idea already. paying a commute wouldn't make a difference.

quote:

it will also create bad blood if people compare their commutes. say person A has a 30 minute one way drive and person B has a 10 minute one way drive: in the 7+1 arrangement, does this mean that person A has fully minmaxed their commute and they have to work exactly 7h, while person B is expected to work 7h40 like a chump, just because they happened to live closer?

this is some clownshoes poo poo. when i have to bill mileage to my company i submit the distance and time taken and they pay a stipend baswd on that. that process could be baked into an employment contract and standard paycheque.

why would it be a full hour? why would someone have to work to make it up if their commute is shorter? people with longer commutes are currently punished because they gotta pay for more transit and take more time than people with shorter commutes. wouldn't that create the same "bad blood?"

quote:

in the end, i feel like implicitly we already do get paid for the commute - we get paid for the work anyway and if the work agreement means that a) you go to the office and b) you clock in-out at this and this hour.

except you literally aren't.

quote:

the question is more like "ok hold on wtf the contract says i work 8h per day and yet 10h of my day is spent working or commuting to/from work wow this sucks". and imo the answer to this question is: cut down the hours in the standard workday/workweek.

and to pay a travel stipend based on distance and time traveled during commute as well.

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison


pretty sure your salary should cover the cost of commuting to your job, that’s kind of what your salary is.

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005



Nap Ghost

eight hours a day five days a week was also a "radical demand" once upon a time, and the bosses dropped bombs from privately owned aircraft onto the workers fighting for it

they don't even need to do that any more because the population in the united states is currently exhibiting levels of peasant mentality not seen since the middle ages

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