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salt shakeup
Jun 27, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 8 hours!


The plane smashing into a building is actually badass and cool.

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Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
ASK ME ABOUT MY SELF-PUBLISHED WARHAMMER FANFICTION AND MY KNIFE COLLECTION


salt shakeup posted:

The plane smashing into a building is actually badass and cool.

It absolutely should have been, just as a special forces team, half of them going forwards in time, half backwards, attacking a town built around a nuclear silo should be really cool. Or a car chase with the same premise.

VagueRant
May 24, 2012


As soon as the bungee scene whizzed by me without me totally understanding the geography/physics of it and wondering if any part of it was INVERTED (in retrospect: no, but people still think so!) I was like...oh....Christopher Nolan has not learned from his mistakes.

AccountSupervisor
Aug 3, 2004

I am greatful for my loop pedal

Yeah I guess its safe to say if that was badass and cool for you it makes sense you liked the rest of the film. I legitimately dont even mean that as a slight, its just for me its a macro example of a lot of my issues with the film in general. Like the movie, it seems cool in my head and conceptually its badass and seeing a plane crash into building should absolutely excite me but practically it was just a complete dud. Something that I should have found exciting and thrilling but just kind of left me feeling absolutely nothing.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!



This movie is like Nolan had a weird dream with its own internal logic and then tried to film it. There are a lot of arbitrary rules and plot holes peppered throughout because the core plot of the movie is just half-baked.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
ASK ME ABOUT MY SELF-PUBLISHED WARHAMMER FANFICTION AND MY KNIFE COLLECTION


AccountSupervisor posted:

Yeah I guess its safe to say if that was badass and cool for you it makes sense you liked the rest of the film. I legitimately dont even mean that as a slight, its just for me its a macro example of a lot of my issues with the film in general. Like the movie, it seems cool in my head and conceptually its badass and seeing a plane crash into building should absolutely excite me but practically it was just a complete dud. Something that I should have found exciting and thrilling but just kind of left me feeling absolutely nothing.

especially if you compare it to, say, Face/Off's scene where a plane crashes into a building, which is a loving nuts scene.

AccountSupervisor
Aug 3, 2004

I am greatful for my loop pedal

Snowman_McK posted:

especially if you compare it to, say, Face/Off's scene where a plane crashes into a building, which is a loving nuts scene.

It felt like I was watching the BTS of how they made the scene, not the scene as it would exist in an exciting cinematic reality.

Theres a presumption I should be wowed by what Im seeing but little effort to ground me in what Im seeing and that issue carries through the entire film.

space uncle
Sep 17, 2006


JazzFlight posted:

This movie is like Nolan had a weird dream with its own internal logic and then tried to film it. There are a lot of arbitrary rules and plot holes peppered throughout because the core plot of the movie is just half-baked.

Inception - awesome action scenes governed by “dream” logic. Convoluted plot and ambiguous ending.

Interstellar - awesome space scenes governed by relativistic space travel, “childlike love”, and “4D space odyssey” logic. Straightforward plot but bizarre ending

Tenet - decent action scenes and spy thriller governed by “Opposite Day” logic. A script written by two playground kids saying “no actually that doesn’t happen because it’s Opposite Day so my soldier shoots your soldier in the future before your guy shoots in the past”.

All of them rely on a childlike sense of curiosity and internal logic, but only the last one is also very frustrating.

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004




Offensive Clock

The battle scenes are intentionally confusing and people are shooting at nothing because its really hard to see how a forwards moving army and a backwards moving army would fight in any sensible fashion

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
ASK ME ABOUT MY SELF-PUBLISHED WARHAMMER FANFICTION AND MY KNIFE COLLECTION


ymgve posted:

The battle scenes are intentionally confusing and people are shooting at nothing because its really hard to see how a forwards moving army and a backwards moving army would fight in any sensible fashion

then he shouldn't have done it with an army. He should have done it with a smaller group of heroes and villains and used the concept a lot better.

Even if the scene doesn't fully make sense, at least give us some good imagery. Buildings flying back together, rows of dead soldiers springing back to life. As incomplete and unfinished as the finale of Doctor Strange was, it looked amazing.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



We did get buildings flying back together. It mostly sucked.

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015




ymgve posted:

The battle scenes are intentionally confusing and people are shooting at nothing because its really hard to see how a forwards moving army and a backwards moving army would fight in any sensible fashion

There should have been a recognizable squad of badass inverted operatives who have mastered the intricacies of reverse combat. They kick the protag’s rear end in the first act and then he outdoes them in the third.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



The Kingfish posted:

There should have been a recognizable squad of badass inverted operatives who have mastered the intricacies of reverse combat. They kick the protag’s rear end in the first act and then he outdoes them in the third.

Volkov feels like he was custom-built for this exact purpose in the story and then Nolan just forgot.

Capntastic
Jan 13, 2005

A dog begins eating a dusty old coil of rope but there's a nail in it.



The Kingfish posted:

There should have been a recognizable squad of badass inverted operatives who have mastered the intricacies of reverse combat.

There was not a single instance I can recall, in the entire film, of “doing stuff inverted” having a benefit outside of there being a plot contrivance.

There was not a single instance of “being inverted” being like, stylish or interesting.

The idea of “someone uses inverted fighting to completely wreck the protagonist’s day” is so seemingly obvious.

A wasted premise plotwise and special effects-wise.

I can see Nolan sitting down and making an elaborate geometric shape of the script in his head with sticky notes on a wall with strings connecting all of the “inverted stuff crosses over with normal stuff” scenes but that doesn’t make the movie fun to watch or the scifi concepts interesting.

So many possible slam dunks just not even attempted.

Anne Frank Funk
Nov 4, 2008



someone recut the 9/11 attacks tenet final battle explody/rebuildy building fashion

Ur Getting Fatter
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight



Grimey Drawer

Anne Frank Funk posted:

someone recut the 9/11 attacks tenet final battle explody/rebuildy building fashion

don't do this but someone explain to me what actually happened in that scene and what the point was because I seriously did not understand it

Miss Lonelyhearts
Mar 22, 2003




I just re-watched it and the biggest thing I originally missed was how the control of written information dictates the entire film. If something occurred and was recorded the future knows about it and can plan accordingly, including the protagonist. It explains why he was "killed" in the first scene, it's to hide his identity from future generations. Kenneth Branagh spells it out during their final walkie-talkie convo but it's hard to catch the first time through (I saw it in a drive-in). He says the protagonist is a zealot who can't trust anyone and can't tell people what he knows, and everything he does is blind faith, which makes sense.

I still thought the action sequences were pretty good, especially the Opera. The movie works best for me on a macro level thinking about why they're jumping through time and imagining a plan that involves going forward and back 1,000 times with each side gaining knowledge and influence, like a tug of war or arm wrestle. I could enjoy the rest of it enough without getting too soy boy about the brain crunch of time travel.

I didn't mind the inversion scenes that keep the plot moving but I agree the airport fight and the other inverted fight scenes don't really serve any purpose apart from trying to make everything fit the movie's logic and also look cool? I also agree the final scene could've been done better, there was extremely little shown of who's defending the abandoned city. I think I caught enemy troops shooting from windows exactly twice, the rest was just the red or blue team shooting at ... someone.
Also the aforementioned walkie talkie convo between protagonist and antagonist fell flat, they each explain their motivations and are speaking with the most knowledge/power possible at that point in time, but emoting and talking through a gas mask via walkie-talkie just didn't evoke the implied weight of the moment.

I liked the escalation of scale on the protagonist's side of things, which started as just Neil, then the "cavalry" at the highway scene, and finally a small army. But yea it seemed to not serve any purpose and could've been done with a smaller force I guess? Neil manages to save them twice by the end of the scene and I think the whole thing just continues the crescendo of his importance to the story, which mirrors his inverted relationship with the protagonist.

JDW and Pattinson definitely elevated the movie (I feel the same way about Tom Hardy in Inception) and the ending left me wanting a sequel set in the future where they all meet and recruit each other, including the guys who crash the plane, which builds up to the point where they go back in time to the movie we just watched.

Miss Lonelyhearts fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Dec 22, 2020

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




I watched the movie with headphones so didn't miss any dialogue and so didn't think how it'd make sense for the film to be confusing when you miss out on important dialogue due to the poo poo sound mix.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008


Was Sator at the opera house? I never noticed him there.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011




Sorry if this has come up already, but Sator at the end was an inverted Sator right? Why was he walking around without wearing a mask?

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

Coal Jobs for the Coal God



Satori on the boat you mean? He inverted to get there and went through the the turnstile again to experience that day again. Hard to get the same feeling going backwards.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008


What if you inverted fart?

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

I'm watching it now and no, I don't believe Sator at the end is inverted.

gregday
May 23, 2003


AdmiralViscen posted:

Sorry if this has come up already, but Sator at the end was an inverted Sator right? Why was he walking around without wearing a mask?

There ought to be a FAQ about this.

Inverted does not mean the same thing as “in the past”. You’re only inverted when you are moving in reverse, I .e. The world rewinding around you while you appear to be moving backwards from their perspective. Once you re-vert, (use the machine again, in the past), you are now moving forward again. Just in the past.

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

Coal Jobs for the Coal God



I would blow Dane Cook posted:

What if you inverted fart?

It would go back into your butt and percolate some more.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



I would blow Dane Cook posted:

What if you inverted fart?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foJZ36QOhs4

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

I'm Peter Graves, and I was wondering if you could direct me to the natatorium, as I'm attending a Scuderia Ferrari team-building exercise. Thank you. I'm Peter Graves.


If being clipped by an inverted bullet would still kill you with Time Radiation, breathing in inverted gunsmoke should be like a lifetime 5000-a-day habit with added plutonium.

(And yes, the same would be true of smelling an inverted fart.)

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

Payndz posted:

If being clipped by an inverted bullet would still kill you with Time Radiation, breathing in inverted gunsmoke should be like a lifetime 5000-a-day habit with added plutonium.

(And yes, the same would be true of smelling an inverted fart.)

The secret reason inverted folks wear gas masks.



Something about air not working with inverted lungs either.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!



Android Apocalypse posted:

The secret reason inverted folks wear gas masks.



Something about air not working with inverted lungs either.
This was such a dumb part of the logic, along with how heat was supposed to be backwards, too. It was practically Elaine from that Seinfeld episode when she asks Jerry if Bizarro Superman was black and lives underwater. I guess they also invert all the canisters of oxygen they need? I mean, because you can't breathe "normal" oxygen.

gregday
May 23, 2003


JazzFlight posted:

This was such a dumb part of the logic, along with how heat was supposed to be backwards, too. It was practically Elaine from that Seinfeld episode when she asks Jerry if Bizarro Superman was black and lives underwater. I guess they also invert all the canisters of oxygen they need? I mean, because you can't breathe "normal" oxygen.

Yes, they do. They clearly showed a prep room on the inverted side with inverted air tanks. You even see Neil loading up a cooler with inverted water bottles they will need for the duration. They make a point of showing the preparatory steps they take.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



gregday posted:

Yes, they do. They clearly showed a prep room on the inverted side with inverted air tanks. You even see Neil loading up a cooler with inverted water bottles they will need for the duration. They make a point of showing the preparatory steps they take.

you wouldn't need to drink inverted water, it would just run up your dick and you'd spit it out

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Finally got around to this and found it to be very disappointing, mainly because it's a beautiful film and just really really nice to look at from scene to scene. Unfortunately everything else surrounding the visuals is a mess and even though I was following the plot pretty well there was still way too many moments where a character is doing something and I didn't really understand why or what their immediate goals were. Or a scene is happening and I can't really remember where we are timewise and who is inverted/reverted at the moment. If this is Nolan's version of a Bond film, it definitely fell into the same trap that some of the bad Bonds do, which is that the plot becomes so convoluted that you lose track of what Bond is supposed to be doing in a given scene. The big picture is usually very clear(this Bad Guy is gonna destroy the world!), but immediate goals need to be clear too and in Tenet they almost never were(to me).

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012

SO EMBARRASSING



What happens if a normal person wears inverted clothes? Would have been cool to see someone get bopped on the head by a helmet flying at them.

pospysyl fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Dec 23, 2020

gregday
May 23, 2003


I'm surely overthinking what is almost definitely just a "shut up and enjoy the movie" thing, but I think I have a satisfying explanation for why things struck by inverted bullets behave differently. And it has to do with the reverse entropy "radiation" and how long the inverted bullets come into contact with the objects they interact with.


For example, using the opera house bullet. In that scene, everything (Protagonist, Neil, Neil's gun, struck SWAT guy, seating step) are all in the same forward direction. Only the bullet is inverted. However, we can presume the bullet has prolonged contact with both the gun and the step it strikes. So going by the radiation contamination we were warned about, we could argue these 2 things were contaminated with inversion, and were able to participate in the bullet's reverse journey. This allows the step to 'heal' with dust aned wood splinters flying back into place, and the gun's mechanics to operate backwards, receiving the inverted bullet.

However, the SWAT guy's shoulder was only briefly involved in contact with the inverted bullet, so when the bullet passes through him, he doesn't "heal" up the way the seat does, instead his wound is created in the same direction of everything else in the opera house.

I've been thinking about this for a little while, and so far it seems consistent with both Kat in the interrogation scene and Neil's fatal wound at the end. So while being shot with an inverted bullet is very bad, the inversion radiation is enough to just kind of gently caress you up, but not enough prolonged contact to actually make your particles participate in the inversion, unless (as in Neil's case) your body is the bullet's endpoint.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002



Man this movie was really dumb but also really cool? I kinda dug it from start to finish even though it's something I know I'll break apart if I spend too much thinking about it. The Protagonist goes from cool place to cool place to cool place and does cool spy things in an escalating fashion then the turnstile is introduced and suddenly we're both continuing moving forward while also filling the blanks in the past. The only thing that never made sense was the final gambit of going to the vacation day to make that the end of the world in relation to everything that happens after the fact but again I think I'm better off not thinking about it. Neil was cool, I get the protagonist memes now and the action outside of that final "war" scene worked for me.

The whole turnstile introduction / interrogation was when everything equally "clicked" and stopped making sense.


John David Washington was insanely cool throughout. Good popcorn movie and man I'm glad I waited to see it home and not risk dying.

salt shakeup
Jun 27, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 8 hours!


gregday posted:

There ought to be a FAQ about this.

Inverted does not mean the same thing as “in the past”. You’re only inverted when you are moving in reverse, I .e. The world rewinding around you while you appear to be moving backwards from their perspective. Once you re-vert, (use the machine again, in the past), you are now moving forward again. Just in the past.

It's kind of like the box in Primer but not really. Merry Christmas everyone.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Just rented it from Amazon and it was boring?

Which is a shame because I was really looking forward to this.......

RCarr
Dec 24, 2007



Yea it was pretty bad.

Dante
Feb 8, 2003



I applaud Nolan's bravery for making the Russian bond villain's motivation be IF I CAN'T HAVE YOU NOBODY CAN for both the bond girl and also for destroying the planet with an appropriately nuclear-themed doomsday device.

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The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015




If I had a magic turnstyle I’d go back in time to help Nolan make a better movie.

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