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Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

Harminoff posted:

Convertable Mini Tower. Looks to be this one

https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-wo...ghz-16-gb-2-tb/

But with a much smaller hard drive.

As someone currently running a 3770 in his gaming machine, nice score!

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Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass



Cross posted from the VR thread:

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

Hardware question.

I fell completely backwards into a Dell Precision 3630 with an i7-8700K and a Quadro P1000 in it. For VR I currently have a custom built system with a Ryzen 5 2600x and a 1080ti. Knowing that I can move the RAM over and all other stuff, is there any reason I shouldn't find a way to get my 1080ti into that Dell machine? The i7 seems to be a good bit better than the R5 for gaming, and there are a lot of things that get CPU intensive in VR and require good IPC and single-core performance (Looking at you Rec Room and iracing).

Thoughts?

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Jim Silly-Balls posted:

Cross posted from the VR thread:

Make sure the PSU is up to snuff / has the appropriate connectors.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass



Yeah Iím putting my PSU from my AMD rig in

It fits!



KingKapalone
Dec 20, 2005
1/16 Native American + 1/2 Hungarian = Totally Badass

Anyone see a HDD deal for BF yet? I'm thinking 4TB probably.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


If youíre willing to post impressions, Iíd be curious if you see any performance difference in current titles. Most of VR benchmarks Iíve see indicate that a 2600x should be fine and thereís not much advantage (currently) to more powerful processors. Maybe thatís not true of those specific titles, though?

If you like your current machine, you could sell the 8700k, pick up a 3600, and still have $100 left over!

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass



Does 3dmark save your results in the steam cloud save thing? I want to benchmark them against each other but I also screwed up and started swapping parts before I thought to benchmark them

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Jim Silly-Balls posted:

Does 3dmark save your results in the steam cloud save thing? I want to benchmark them against each other but I also screwed up and started swapping parts before I thought to benchmark them

3dmark saves your results to your 3dmark account, if you created an account online for tabulating results from benchmark runs. No benchmark results would be saved on the Steam Cloud.

Lawnie
Sep 5, 2006

That is my helmet
Give it back
you are a lion
It doesn't even fit


Grimey Drawer

Looking at graphics cards to upgrade some hardware I'm buying from a friend, and I'm interested in an RTX 2060. This seems like a genuinely good deal but I'm not even close to knowledgeable enough to pick out any important differences between models. Any suggestions? https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gef...b8zvSrtj1wF6PWg

E: may as well share what the final build will be - I'm getting the CPU, cooler, motherboard, and RAM from a friend for $225, and I already have a case that will work. Going to wait until Black Friday to make any orders, hopefully some things will be a bit cheaper (like the monitor, down to $170 at Best Buy):

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($335.98 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 64.95 CFM CPU Cooler ($79.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($64.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB SC ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($319.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 430 ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Corsair RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VG248QE 24.0" 1920x1080 144 Hz Monitor ($229.49 @ Amazon)
Total: $1215.37
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-21 20:04 EST-0500

Lawnie fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Nov 22, 2019

bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019



Lawnie posted:

Looking at graphics cards to upgrade some hardware I'm buying from a friend, and I'm interested in an RTX 2060. This seems like a genuinely good deal but I'm not even close to knowledgeable enough to pick out any important differences between models. Any suggestions? https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gef...b8zvSrtj1wF6PWg

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gef...N82E16814932115 $305 after rebate, or a maybe better one for $320 after rebate

https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce...N82E16814487442

bus hustler fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Nov 22, 2019

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!



With the release of Threadripper and the Ryzen 9s (and maybe a new line of space heaters from Intel? ) the price of the 3800X has dropped to around 355 versus the 3700Xís 330.

At what differential would taking the (apparently only fractionally more powerful) 3800X become worthwhile?

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Schadenboner posted:

With the release of Threadripper and the Ryzen 9s (and maybe a new line of space heaters from Intel? ) the price of the 3800X has dropped to around 355 versus the 3700X’s 330.

At what differential would taking the (apparently only fractionally more powerful) 3800X become worthwhile?

Basically never. It offers 1-3% more performance and uses 10+% more power to get it.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

I guess if it costs less you could justify it because now you can limit it to the same power consumption and performance by tweaking stuff in Ryzen Master/the BIOS

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!



Are 3800s binned more preferentially in the Great AMD Silicon Lottery?

Is that still a thing/was it ever even really a thing?

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Schadenboner posted:

Are 3800s binned more preferentially in the Great AMD Silicon Lottery?

Is that still a thing/was it ever even really a thing?

I'm sure they are, but the cutoff is based on demand for each sku, not how the binning works out.

Mayman10
May 11, 2019



My R7 370 finally kicked the bucket and I'm currently leaning to replacing it with an RX 580/590 since they're priced pretty well and are leaps ahead of the R7.

Are there any cards in the same range that are better or is the RX 500 series the best pick?

Llamadeus
Dec 20, 2005


Schadenboner posted:

Are 3800s binned more preferentially in the Great AMD Silicon Lottery?

Is that still a thing/was it ever even really a thing?
Silicon Lottery has some statistics on 3700X vs 3800X, right at the bottom here: https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Mayman10 posted:

My R7 370 finally kicked the bucket and I'm currently leaning to replacing it with an RX 580/590 since they're priced pretty well and are leaps ahead of the R7.

Are there any cards in the same range that are better or is the RX 500 series the best pick?

I wouldn't consider anything less than a 1660 super for new cards, the 580/590 are too much of a power hog and not priced low enough to justify themselves against the faster 1660S.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Llamadeus posted:

Silicon Lottery has some statistics on 3700X vs 3800X, right at the bottom here: https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics

Except they were tested at different voltages.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Techpoweredup did a piece on them but I can only find an amp link right now. Yes, they are binning them (they're the same chip after all). Per SL a top quintile 3800X gets 150mhz more than a top quintile 3700X, with only a 6% difference between a top 3800X and a bottom 3700X. In their testing they got the 1-3% performance difference I mentioned earlier.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005


Harminoff posted:

3770
So just got back from this. Was a three hour line in front of me. Ended up picking up two Dell Z220 with i7 3770, and 16 gigs of ram. Should be able to run sims and whatnot ok I'd imagine.

So opening this up and looking around, it looks like the mobo has a proprietary 18 bit connector and I've read about people having trouble with other power supplies fitting the case. The power supply is 400w however it only has 1 6 pin connector. Is there a decent graphics card that I could grab that only takes 1 connection? Not sure how to go about putting a better video card in this.

If anything I could get a new power supply and this https://www.amazon.com/COMeap-Power...h/dp/B074G12LT5 and try and make it fit.

Harminoff fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Nov 22, 2019

Mayman10
May 11, 2019



Palladium posted:

I wouldn't consider anything less than a 1660 super for new cards, the 580/590 are too much of a power hog and not priced low enough to justify themselves against the faster 1660S.

All the specs I've seen put the 1660s at about the same base clock as the 590 but for like $40-50 more and with 2 gigs less of vram

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Mayman10 posted:

All the specs I've seen put the 1660s at about the same base clock as the 590 but for like $40-50 more and with 2 gigs less of vram

You can't compare clock to clock on anything but chips on literally the same architecture, and even then there are other factors at play. The 1660S handily outperforms the 590 across the board, and at 2/3rds the power consumption.

Llamadeus
Dec 20, 2005


KillHour posted:

Except they were tested at different voltages.
It looks like they were tested at the same voltages, with a specific frequency at each voltage. It's just that the brackets shown don't overlap since the highest 3700X one is lower than the lowest 3800X.

It's how they've done it for other similar SKUs like 8700K vs 8086K and 9900K vs 9900KF.

Probably not a good way to find the actual best possible voltages/frequencies but quicker to test.

Llamadeus fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Nov 22, 2019

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Mayman10 posted:

All the specs I've seen put the 1660s at about the same base clock as the 590 but for like $40-50 more and with 2 gigs less of vram

They're neck and neck at 1440p, but the 2GB of vram less doesn't actually hurt it because the GPUs themselves are the actual bottleneck, the 590 doesn't have enough grunt to do anything higher than 1440p, where 8gb of VRAM would be an advantage.

At 1080p the Nvidia card has a much larger lead, but hell an rx580 is cheaper than both and does passable framerates at 1080p.

The Nvidia card is way more efficient than the AMD one, but neither one is likely to turn your PC into a space heater.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Nov 22, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


There's also the 5500 and 5500 XT releasing soonish, and they're supposed to be roughly 580/590 performance at a 570/580 price points. Also much more power-efficient, though still less so than NVidia.

Unfortunately, they were announced in October and we still don't have a launch date for desktop cards, so it's really only useful if you're not in a hurry.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Nov 22, 2019

meteor9
Nov 23, 2007

"That's why I put up with it."

My initial plan to build two new PCs here in Australia with my bonus check has fallen apart entirely due to me not actually making enough to get a check big enough to build one, let alone two. However I CAN afford to replace our GTX 750tis with the GTX 1660 Supers I was considering for the new builds anyway, and supposedly they're compatible with our old boards and CPU:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5 GHz Dual-Core Processor
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 Super 6 GB OC Video Card ($365.00 @ Shopping Express)
Total: $365.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-22 15:37 AEDT+1100

Now there's a sale at Centrecom on these cards with free shipping that ends tonight, so I guess I'm after any advice on whether or not this is a worthwhile move (or if centrecom is known garbage to any other aussies or not). Link to aforementioned sale.

Any advice? Or is this a waste of $670 AUD?

EDIT: I should note we do a lot of MMO gaming and a lot of digital art as well. Also mostly hoping this will get Monster Hunter World running at faster than a slideshow, it wasn't working on the 750ti but it might also be more a fault of the CPU as well.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Unfortunately, MHW will definitely choke on a dual-core processor - most posts I can find indicate that it might run okay at times, but will regularly freeze for seconds or dip down into slideshow range. It looks like a quad-core 4570/4670 or equivalent would work, albeit with a bit of stuttering. If you can find some compatible used quad-cores for cheap on ebay, that could hold you over until you can upgrade the cpu/mobo/ram.

E: It looks like there's a 4570 with zero bids at $30 ending in 20 hours. 4570 chips seems to go for $30-50, 4590 chips for $50-70, 4670 chips for $60-80, and 4690 chips at $70-90. I'd avoid 's' marked chips (like the 4570s) since they're underclocked to reduce power consumption and probably won't save much money. 'K' marked chips are fine if you can get them cheap, but you won't be able to overclock them with your motherboard.

EE: You'll also want to pick up some cheap thermal paste for when you install them! If you're using Intel's stock coolers, you might need some better ones for the extra power consumption. The Deepcool Gammaxx 400 is a little spendy but is good enough to replace the stock cooler on cheaper AMD cpus like the 2600. The Gammaxx 200t would save you $10 each and is good enough for a 4th-gen i5.

meteor9
Nov 23, 2007

"That's why I put up with it."

Thanks for that! I guess ultimately that leaves me with the question of what would be a better use of ~$330 per PC: Trying to get a stopgap CPU, or just getting the planned video card upgrade? My assumption is that this little cash doesn't really let me upgrade to a worthwhile CPU/mobo combo yet, but I also don't know if my limited CPU options would provide better results than the GPU.

E: Of course if I did replace the mobo/cpus would that require a new windows install? Not sure I can actually swing that currently.

EE: Still, if I DID go for that route instead of the GPU, how does this look?
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 3.4 GHz 6-Core Processor ($192.82 @ Amazon Australia)
Motherboard: ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($99.00 @ Centre Com)
Memory: Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($99.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Total: $390.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-22 17:00 AEDT+1100

meteor9 fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Nov 22, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

The reality is that you do not have enough funds to make any kind of meaningful progress in terms of upgrading two PCs at once. Anything you do with that money spread over two PCs is likely throwing good money after bad. How much money is coming down the pipeline?

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Honestly, without a gpu upgrade you're really not going to see much of a performance improvement with the cpu upgrade. If you don't do the gpu upgrade, I'd just pack it away until you can do both at once. If you want to upgrade and can't swing the extra $50-60 for 4570s + a cooler (and you could probably get cheaper coolers on ebay), I'd consider getting some cheaper cards that'll let you also upgrade to i5s.

Used 970s are regularly selling for $120-150 and would get you a stable 60 fps at medium/high settings (turn off volume rendering, though!) New 580s or even 570s would give you decently playable frame rates too, if you prefer new cards. Any of those would be huge improvements over 750 tis.

meteor9
Nov 23, 2007

"That's why I put up with it."

Sadly just a total of $800 AUD, just feels like these systems are getting long in the tooth and I'm going a bit stir crazy on them since this'd be the first 'bonus' check I've ever gotten. The 750 Ti / i3-4150 combo worked alright back when we built these in 2014 but I was hoping I could do *something* or at least maybe piecemeal upwards over the next year or so. Not the best plan, I'm sure, but sadly it's all I got to work with.

Granted it was $1200 before but someone's Moto G 3e was dying horribly.

E. Didn't see that second reply! Yeah, probably just gonna hold off for now then, I was letting the whole "Black Friday Dealz!" thing overtake me.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

meteor9 posted:

Sadly just a total of $800 AUD, just feels like these systems are getting long in the tooth and I'm going a bit stir crazy on them since this'd be the first 'bonus' check I've ever gotten. The 750 Ti / i3-4150 combo worked alright back when we built these in 2014 but I was hoping I could do *something* or at least maybe piecemeal upwards over the next year or so. Not the best plan, I'm sure, but sadly it's all I got to work with.

Granted it was $1200 before but someone's Moto G 3e was dying horribly.

E. Didn't see that second reply! Yeah, probably just gonna hold off for now then, I was letting the whole "Black Friday Dealz!" thing overtake me.

If you are that strapped for cash, then the used market is the only place you will be able to do much effectively. Upgrading piecemeal works if you are within the confines of current generation tech. IE, you are leapfrogging every year to the latest "best-in-class budget option" alternating between CPU, GPU, and storage/peripherals as needed so nothing is a severe bottleneck. Right now your systems are so far out of date that it is very hard to buy new parts in that price bracket that make sense.


However, the used market, if you are willing to risk the pitfalls that come along with it, can bring great deals that maybe within your budget. There are two Aussie Youtube channels you should review to get a sense of your options here. The first is Tech YES City https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=user?bryaneasy?featured and the second is Phil's Computer lab https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=user?philscomputerlab. Both these guys have extensive videos over the past year on budget used builds, often with unconventional parts. Most of it is not a 1 to 1 translation to what you can do, for example Tech went to Taiwan to dig through scrapyards for parts, not something you will be doing but they will help you identify potential dirt cheap components on various social media used market or even Ali Express that you can use to piece together something reasonably serviceable at a massive discount over paying retail prices, Black Friday or no.

If not, then you really just have to save up money. Your budget per PC is simply so low you are at the bottom of the price/performance curve where it simply makes no sense to buy anything since every marginal dollar more increases performance by a significant degree relatively speaking. When you are at that point in the curve, it is almost always better not to buy so when you do end up getting more money to augment that budget, you will be getting better performance since you will be buying tomorrow's parts.

Mayman10
May 11, 2019



orange juche posted:

They're neck and neck at 1440p, but the 2GB of vram less doesn't actually hurt it because the GPUs themselves are the actual bottleneck, the 590 doesn't have enough grunt to do anything higher than 1440p, where 8gb of VRAM would be an advantage.

At 1080p the Nvidia card has a much larger lead, but hell an rx580 is cheaper than both and does passable framerates at 1080p.

The Nvidia card is way more efficient than the AMD one, but neither one is likely to turn your PC into a space heater.

Okay you've swayed me to the 1660 super, unless the 5500 drops before November ends (pls AMD pls)

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Mayman10 posted:

Okay you've swayed me to the 1660 super, unless the 5500 drops before November ends (pls AMD pls)

Well, the 5500 will be a sub $200 card, and is not quite as powerful as a RX580, but it's way more efficient than one. It's almost as efficient as a 1660, but it doesn't quite match a 1660 on performance, though it should beat it on performance per dollar.

The 5500 XT would be above $200 and should hopefully beat the 1660 Ti on price and performance, as well as obsoleting the RX590 in order to keep loose 590s from gobbling up GPU sales.

There's no numbers on performance for the 5500XT though so nobody knows exactly what it's going to be at yet.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Nov 22, 2019

Mayman10
May 11, 2019



orange juche posted:

Well, the 5500 will be a sub $200 card, and is not quite as powerful as a RX580, but it's way more efficient than one. It's almost as efficient as a 1660, but it doesn't quite match a 1660 on performance, though it should beat it on performance per dollar.

Ah gently caress if the 5500 isn't gonna out perform the 1660 super then nevermind.

God drat it amd I really believed in you. I should have known after their drivers nuked my old card

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Mayman10 posted:

Ah gently caress if the 5500 isn't gonna out perform the 1660 super then nevermind.

God drat it amd I really believed in you. I should have known after their drivers nuked my old card

The 1660 Super is hard to beat, but the 5500XT should be able to do it, as a 1660 Super is between a 1660 and the 1660 Ti, and the 5500XT is taking aim at the 1660 Ti.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

The Milkman posted:

Thank you (and all). It's a little disheartening there doesn't seem to be anything as good as what I got 7 years ago. But that Core x2 and Focus Mini look pretty good. I'm not in a rush or anything so I'm gonna consider a larger reorganizing, see if I can't make a good niche for a standard tower.
This is just a natural consequence of the shift away from 5.25 drives. If you require one, naturally old cases are preferable to new ones.

The Core v21 was caught right in the transition period as you can see, given the frame had a cutout for one but with no space for one on the front cover that was no doubt finalized later than the frame was.

bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019



Harminoff posted:

So opening this up and looking around, it looks like the mobo has a proprietary 18 bit connector and I've read about people having trouble with other power supplies fitting the case. The power supply is 400w however it only has 1 6 pin connector. Is there a decent graphics card that I could grab that only takes 1 connection? Not sure how to go about putting a better video card in this.

If anything I could get a new power supply and this https://www.amazon.com/COMeap-Power...h/dp/B074G12LT5 and try and make it fit.

This machine is going to be CPU limited instantly and only worse going forward. Don't get me wrong - it was a STEAL at the price you paid and has tons of life in it for The Sims. But it's only going to do so much, and that means no need to go overboard on the video card.

https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-GeF...customerReviews < This will not need any additional power from the PSU (will draw from just the PCI express slot!) and will be fine for The Sims 4 and similar games.

One step up in price/power would be this:

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Cabl.../dp/B07BPP5F65/
https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce.../dp/B07PHQHFCQ/

You don't want to spend a lot of money here, for $500 you could build a brand new PC with a Ryzen 3200G/16GB/240GB SSD/1660 Super... Granted the video card you buy can be moved over, so if you think this is a stopgap then maybe take the step up. I may even take a stab at this refurb card for $150: https://www.newegg.com/zotac-geforc...=9SIADFR9RM7584 (edit: The latest review gives me pause, but this is an old computer, everything in it is "refurb" grade at this point!)

Until last year I was running i5-3570k & an AMD R9 380, which the GTX 1650 should beat. I was playing most everything I wanted on medium/high or better at 1080p no problem. Rocket league, Arma 3, Day Z, etc all ran great.

bus hustler fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Nov 22, 2019

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Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass



Stickman posted:

If youíre willing to post impressions, Iíd be curious if you see any performance difference in current titles. Most of VR benchmarks Iíve see indicate that a 2600x should be fine and thereís not much advantage (currently) to more powerful processors. Maybe thatís not true of those specific titles, though?

If you like your current machine, you could sell the 8700k, pick up a 3600, and still have $100 left over!

I managed to find my 3dmark/VRMark login. So I can post the results when I get some more testing done tonight. My Ryzen testing was done with 24GB of RAM and the i7 box has 8 currently, so itís not really a fair fight.

Iíll move some RAM over from the AMD box, retest tonight and post results.

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