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RPATDO_LAMD posted:adding all the transactions to a database without number guessing is a great solution though as long as it doesn't touch any cryptocurrency
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Jun 18, 2021 18:40
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kw0134 posted:remember none of this is necessary if you grant even a single iota of trust to a party who can decide what is or is not a valid transaction to record. this is necessary because you're assuming everyone's potentially a bad actor and only by making it expensive and highly distributed that when "enough" people say something is a thing, that becomes the truth. also, while any ONE person may be a bad actor, most people aren't, or at least most holders of capital aren't, so the hashrate democracy is fair and trusty even if the 18/f/cali you're buying a barrel of raw milk from may be a fraudster
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Jun 18, 2021 18:47
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sure, that's the basic idea, but if you give trust to someone, you don't need to poll the entirety of the western seaboard, using dedicated machinery chewing enough energy to fill lake mead to give that starbucks on main street the $6.45 that would have been charged to the coffeechain when someone brought a latte.
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Jun 18, 2021 19:34
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Muscle Tracer posted:is "bitcoin cash" somehow different from "bitcoin"? I'm Bitcoin cash, the one that you asked for I'm wanted by the rich and the poor More and more, you just can't reject it You're the junkie and I inject it Into your blood stream, it's like a bad dream Money's the theme, do you know what I mean? lol drat looking at the old video you could re-record this with a bunch of doughy white boys, the lyrics only slightly altered and all the dollar $igns in the VFX changed to ₿ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0rAvZtM7w
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Jun 18, 2021 19:43
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kw0134 posted:remember none of this is necessary if you grant even a single iota of trust to a party who can decide what is or is not a valid transaction to record. this is necessary because you're assuming everyone's potentially a bad actor and only by making it expensive and highly distributed that when "enough" people say something is a thing, that becomes the truth.
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Jun 18, 2021 20:51
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now we're getting to the sociological problem of why anyone would want to build an economy where everyone's a bad actor and you can't trust any other participant as far as you can throw them, when you should be rounding them up and putting them on a one way rocket to the sun
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Jun 18, 2021 20:59
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also in this world entirely populated by bad actors all transactions should be irreversible, because as you know most scams are from credit card chargebacks
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Jun 18, 2021 21:08
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Boxturret posted:because as you know most scams are from credit card chargebacks that was always the most hilarious statement, i have no idea where it originated but bitcoiners have held it up as some kind of universal truth for as long as i can remember
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Jun 18, 2021 21:10
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kw0134 posted:now we're getting to the sociological problem of why anyone would want to build an economy where everyone's a bad actor and you can't trust any other participant as far as you can throw them, when you should be rounding them up and putting them on a one way rocket to the sun they're just taking the slow way around and heating the earth until it's a low-rent knockoff sun
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Jun 18, 2021 21:22
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Isnt “no chargebacks” the first ferengi rule of acquisition?
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Jun 18, 2021 21:22
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infernal machines posted:that was always the most hilarious statement, i have no idea where it originated but bitcoiners have held it up as some kind of universal truth for as long as i can remember i think it comes from bitcoiners all being the sort of people who do fraudulent chargebacks
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Jun 18, 2021 21:24
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kw0134 posted:now we're getting to the sociological problem of why anyone would want to build an economy where everyone's a bad actor and you can't trust any other participant as far as you can throw them, when you should be rounding them up and putting them on a one way rocket to the sun why do you have a lock on your front door? shouldn't we have put all of the thieves in jail by now? Trust is a concession we make in society, but it shouldn't be a necessity. I trust that nobody with a firearm is going to threaten me with it, but I would prefer that nobody have firearms. I trust that Russia and Israel and France aren't going to use nuclear weapons, but I would prefer nobody have nuclear weapons. If I hand you my wallet, I would trust that you would not steal the money in it, however I would prefer to keep it in my own pocket.
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Jun 18, 2021 21:27
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so instead of trusting someone specific, i just trust whoever happens to have access to the least expensive electricity at the time
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Jun 18, 2021 21:28
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cool av posted:so instead of trusting someone specific, i just trust whoever happens to have access to the least expensive electricity at the time aka state sponsored actors in countries like china which you have all reason in the world to trust as their track record repeatedly shows
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Jun 18, 2021 21:36
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epitaph posted:aka state sponsored actors in countries like china which you have all reason in the world to trust as their track record repeatedly shows ?
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Jun 18, 2021 21:53
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philihp posted:why do you have a lock on your front door? shouldn't we have put all of the thieves in jail by now? trust is a necessity if you live in a society by putting a lock on your front door you still trust the maker of the lock not to have sold you some crap, you trust the maker of the door, the maker of the lock trust their suppliers etc etc. this trust problem only goes away if you go really far away from everyone else and roll your own basic life tools from first principles luckily for regular people in a reasonably advanced society there is no need to worry about trust every day as we have a bunch of laws that more or less work and people are used to it i guess in a way crypto is a very ecologically expensive experiment in showing how far you get if your core principle is "i trust nobody". and this is just for making what is essentially a bank transfer. what if you could only open 7 locks per second in the physical world?
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Jun 18, 2021 21:55
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Where are all these banks that seize assets of innocent people? If you live in an authoritarian hell hole where the government or the bank itself can do so arbitrarily, then your bits coined aren't any safer than a chequing account.
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Jun 18, 2021 22:02
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philihp posted:why do you have a lock on your front door? shouldn't we have put all of the thieves in jail by now? Bitcoiners have built an economy where no one is trusted. That raises the basic question of how you can have a society, period. We can argue how much we can trust the damage a single malefactor can wreak on others (e.g., gun control) versus the restrictions we place to prevent such a thing, but all that is at least premised on the notion that most people will not pick up a gun and immediately start a shoot out. Bitcoiners essentially don't believe even in that.
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Jun 18, 2021 22:04
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 we do live in a society
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Jun 18, 2021 22:10
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it's always fascinating when people who've posted four times in a decade suddenly have opinions on bitcoin because you can never really be sure if their account got popped and sold to seraph or if they're really just weirdly passionate about the nature of trust
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Jun 18, 2021 22:13
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infernal machines posted:it's always fascinating when people who've posted four times in a decade suddenly have opinions on bitcoin because you can never really be sure if their account got popped and sold to seraph or if they're really just weirdly passionate about the nature of trust wow nice doxxing, MODS?@!?!
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Jun 18, 2021 22:13
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truly a paradox
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Jun 18, 2021 22:14
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the idea that bitcoin is trustless is predicated on accepting the palpable falsehood that people use bitcoin by using bitcoin. which they never do. people use bitcoin by using exchanges and so on. so they're not interacting with the ~*pure trustless economy*~ or whatever. they're interacting with whatever example of babby's first lamp stack their completely opaque, unregulated exchange threw together to handle all the money and butts. i don't know what the current numbers are, but historically ever since bitcoin started trading for more than a fraction of a cent the proportion of "bitcoin transactions" that are actually on the blockchain has usually been less than one percent. usually less than a tenth of a percent. and this goes down the more usage goes up, out of pure unavoidable technical necessity and, you know, this should be true from analysis. because of all of the times some meaningful fraction of the total number of bitcoins in existence turn out not to be in the accounts of some exchange or their customers but instead in alexander vinnik's wallet or whatever "trustless" in bitcoin means trusting some random pseudonym on the internet and having no recourse if/when you're wrong, versus trusting e.g. visa not to suddenly shut down without warning and being protected by 12 cfr 1026.13 in the event of a fraudulent transaction
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Jun 18, 2021 22:45
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buttcoiners prove themselves hypocrites and liars of the first degree when they go happily tout the fact there's no authority that controls them, then ship all their documentation to an exchange that has everything necessary to create a paper duplicate of the sucker.
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Jun 18, 2021 22:51
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i love how all these shady bitcoin things need so much more personal information than normal services remember, some bitcoin atms need hand scans and pictures of your face and scans of your passport
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Jun 18, 2021 22:56
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stay alert. trust no-one. keep your papers handy
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Jun 18, 2021 22:58
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kw0134 posted:buttcoiners prove themselves hypocrites and liars of the first degree when they go happily tout the fact there's no authority that controls them, then ship all their documentation to an exchange that has everything necessary to create a paper duplicate of the sucker. how is your rap sheet completely blank after 18 years?
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Jun 18, 2021 23:00
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FrozenVent posted:how is your rap sheet completely blank after 18 years? please stop doxxing itt, you're going to get everyone banned 
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Jun 18, 2021 23:00
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Boxturret posted:please stop doxxing itt, you're going to get everyone banned
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Jun 18, 2021 23:09
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Zlodo posted:here is everything you possibly need to know about bcash imagine screaming at a laptop alone in a hotel room about this poo poo lmao
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Jun 18, 2021 23:42
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:Mein Kraft 
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Jun 19, 2021 01:27
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Goddamn do I miss Emo. Too bad he’s in Hell now (my franchise is different).
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Jun 19, 2021 01:59
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DerekSmartymans posted:Goddamn do I miss Emo. Too bad he’s in Hell now (my franchise is different). what? no, he's still around.
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Jun 19, 2021 02:07
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infernal machines posted:it's always fascinating when people who've posted four times in a decade suddenly have opinions on bitcoin because you can never really be sure if their account got popped and sold to seraph or if they're really just weirdly passionate about the nature of trust If I ever start posting like that it was foul play.
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Jun 19, 2021 02:12
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blugu64 posted:If I ever start posting like that it was foul play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeVgcIFEh3I
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Jun 19, 2021 02:23
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wb tom
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Jun 19, 2021 02:26
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Midjack posted:what? no, he's still around. Is he still working? He was older than he looks back when I was a youngster in the late 80s. I thought he died, and am now going to scour YouTube for newer material!
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Jun 19, 2021 02:40
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infernal machines posted:wb tom never truly gone i'm actually selling NFT lottery tickets now, my new startup is focused around providing customer-first experiences we're looking for an experienced dev to help make a scratch-and-win ticket scratching simulator in WebGL via Rust compiled to WASM if you're interested in working on the hottest new poo poo
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Jun 19, 2021 02:43
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incredible. truly pioneering new frontiers
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Jun 19, 2021 02:55
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we're debating whether to offer the whole gamut of skin colour options for your virtual hand, just let people pick any color, or skip all that work and just make the hand shiny chrome. i figure the subsurface light scattering poo poo is critical for the visceral realism people crave when they waste $5 on nothing but maybe 90s environment maps are good enough?
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Jun 19, 2021 03:36
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