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ymgve
Jan 2, 2004


:dukedog:


Offensive Clock

Computer Serf posted:

so :actually: bitcoin did a "soft fork" upgrade that adds a mixer into transactions now

https://coingeek.com/taproot-centralized-changes-put-every-btc-user-at-risk/

it’s not a mixer in any way, this is just faketoshi fans trying to make their coin the «good» one

like, the «batch verification» is not mixing signatures, it’s just doing fancy math so the computer can verify several signatures at once and save CPU power* - the signatures are still distinct and unmixed just as before

*this is unrelated to mining which is still the same as before and still wasting the same energy

ymgve fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Nov 27, 2021

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SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Djeser posted:

does anyone remember which bitcoin wallet it was that used random.org for entropy so when random.org changed its API it just started using the HTTP error code as its random seed instead
it was an android app from blockchain.com. it was getting 301 (permanently moved) errors and instead of throwing an error or redirecting it would just use the error page and always generated the private key for the address 1Bn9ReEocMG1WEW1qYjuDrdFzEFFDCq43F

the additional layer of hilarity is because the app was using http instead of https and random.org stopped supporting http because lol

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


the problem was noticed in may 2015. random.org made the change in january

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


oh and in case anybody needs this explicitly explained: this is another case where the implementation errors and stupid decisions kinda obscure the fundamental conceptual fuckups at the heart of a crypto operation

not handing an error code is an error. using http instead of https for data you need to keep private is loving asinine. but this all kinda obscures the fact that you shouldn't be using a third party website as a randomness source in the first loving place

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003



Shame Boy posted:

at thanksgiving yesterday my dad made me explain in great detail why bitcoin was a terrible idea and a complete scam so he could record it, because he apparently has a bitcoiner coworker who won't shut up about it

i'm like ok dad sure but playing a recording of me saying why it's a bad idea isn't going to make him stop talking about it it's going to make him talk about it more

this is a few years old, but the first minute still very succinctly and clearly states why bitcoin is garbage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQlNyTR8vz0

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/tolstoybb/status/1464336243362185217

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





SubG posted:

not handing an error code is an error. using http instead of https for data you need to keep private is loving asinine. but this all kinda obscures the fact that you shouldn't be using a third party website as a randomness source in the first loving place

random.org's whole purpose is to provide random numbers based on physical processes. I'm not sure exactly what the issue is here.

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004


:dukedog:


Offensive Clock

ultrafilter posted:

random.org's whole purpose is to provide random numbers based on physical processes. I'm not sure exactly what the issue is here.

they claim that but how do you know it’s true

also if they log all random numbers they serve out they can break a lot of crypto using those numbers

KnifeWrench
May 25, 2007

Practical and safe.



Bleak Gremlin

ymgve posted:

they claim that but how do you know it’s true

also if they log all random numbers they serve out they can break a lot of crypto using those numbers

yeah there's nothing wrong with trusting random.org with D&D dice rolls. it's the implicit "for security purposes related to high value assets" that makes it a very bad idea to trust a third party

Boxturret
Oct 3, 2013

Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

wasn't there some other similar thing where when the site found out that the bitcoin application was scraping their page they just changed the page to read "gently caress off"?

DerekSmartymans
Feb 14, 2005

The
Copacetic
Ascetic


KnifeWrench posted:

yeah there's nothing wrong with trusting random.org with D&D dice rolls. it's the implicit "for security purposes related to high value assets" that makes it a very bad idea to trust a third party

People who make things for others to make money cannot be trusted to not build in “back doors” in the weeds. I never played poker online, especially with real money. How do you honestly, really know the code doesn’t allow every other “player” to be basically a bot that can not only know your cards, but in dealing you specific, pregenerated card sets that give the “house” + 8 bots a 99.9% probability of advantage on every hand? And allow you a specific amount of “winnings” on smaller pots for engagement metrics? Which has literally already happened on massive scales (can’t cite exactly; this is years-old info but can be found. Maybe Poker-stars.com or something really big during the Texas Hold-em boom?) That’s just one major-trusted real money gambling operation…history is rife with scams on physical slot machines and roulette wheels, and while possible legit places are making enough with standard house advantages to not gently caress up and get gaming regulators and agencies involved. Machines and worse, software-based gambling is even worse, because Apple could theoretically forward every iPhone touch to the NSA on purpose and install “files” in weird places unknown to the public that are instant felonies. Do they? No, but you could never know for certain, and although that’s crazy talk (disclosure:I am a heavily medicated paranoid schizophrenic), even normal-folk must admit it is technically possible (although as unlikely as the solar system in entirety quantum-tunneling to Betelgeuse).

Like said above, D&D dice rollers can’t really destroy you permanently, but mortgages to buy Etherium in a completely manipulated and totally fungible code-prone-to-mistakes that aren’t even purposely malignant can!

People trusted Madoff for decades, and that was in a heavily regulated financial system prone to fraud and exploitation by knowledgeable insiders. People give money online to ape.jpg and can’t understand how they lost it all. Maybe I really am the only sane person after all, but when I think poo poo like that for real I end up back in restraints getting stabbed by a trans woman roommate while sedated.

“Code is law” is one of the most ridiculous statements ever coined.

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

What is green with wheels?
Grass.
I lied about the wheels.


DerekSmartymans posted:

People who make things for others to make money cannot be trusted to not build in “back doors” in the weeds. I never played poker online, especially with real money. How do you honestly, really know the code doesn’t allow every other “player” to be basically a bot that can not only know your cards, but in dealing you specific, pregenerated card sets that give the “house” + 8 bots a 99.9% probability of advantage on every hand? And allow you a specific amount of “winnings” on smaller pots for engagement metrics? Which has literally already happened on massive scales (can’t cite exactly; this is years-old info but can be found. Maybe Poker-stars.com or something really big during the Texas Hold-em boom?) That’s just one major-trusted real money gambling operation…history is rife with scams on physical slot machines and roulette wheels, and while possible legit places are making enough with standard house advantages to not gently caress up and get gaming regulators and agencies involved. Machines and worse, software-based gambling is even worse, because Apple could theoretically forward every iPhone touch to the NSA on purpose and install “files” in weird places unknown to the public that are instant felonies. Do they? No, but you could never know for certain, and although that’s crazy talk (disclosure:I am a heavily medicated paranoid schizophrenic), even normal-folk must admit it is technically possible (although as unlikely as the solar system in entirety quantum-tunneling to Betelgeuse).

Like said above, D&D dice rollers can’t really destroy you permanently, but mortgages to buy Etherium in a completely manipulated and totally fungible code-prone-to-mistakes that aren’t even purposely malignant can!

People trusted Madoff for decades, and that was in a heavily regulated financial system prone to fraud and exploitation by knowledgeable insiders. People give money online to ape.jpg and can’t understand how they lost it all. Maybe I really am the only sane person after all, but when I think poo poo like that for real I end up back in restraints getting stabbed by a trans woman roommate while sedated.

“Code is law” is one of the most ridiculous statements ever coined.

Code is slaw dog OP

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

What is green with wheels?
Grass.
I lied about the wheels.


I've spent the last 18 months with a reclusive scientist (Wilford) building a technology that can gather all of the world's wisdom, and put it into a bank – a community wisdom bank – for everyone's benefit. Anyone can deposit their own wisdom into the bank and get returns of wisdom from millions of never-before-accessible communities.

Here's an example of the bank in action:
1. KoolKat seeks wisdom by asking this question: Do you approve of Bush's job performance?
2. Thousands deposit wisdom by answering “yes” or “no”.
3. SuperG taps into never-before-available wisdom from, say, Christians over 65 and from Christians under 18. He finds out that Christian seniors are three times more likely to approve of Bush than Christian minors.
4. LayZGirl taps into never-before-available wisdom from men and women living in California. She finds out that California men are 15% more likely than California women to approve of Bush's performance.
5. SuperG and LaZGirl both share their wisdom in the form of comments made available for all other depositors to see.

Here's why I think you will love Avanoo http://www.avanoo.com:
1. It's about wisdom. At Avanoo, people have access to never-before-available community wisdom – perspective on political issues, relevant dating advice, preferred content, and so much more.
2. It's about community. At Avanoo, every community has a say – not just those holding the microphone or carrying a loudspeaker.
3. It's about a better world. At Avanoo, wisdom can be deposited and accessed by anyone, but never depleted. Thus, as more of us join in, we get wiser and the world gets better!

Avanoo is a company of just two (Wilford & me). We've set a crazy goal of 100 million wisdom deposits in just 100 days. If we can do that, we'll be well on our way to gathering all the world's wisdom!

If you'd like to be a part of this, and create and access unprecedented, please join in! It should be an amazing ride.

http://www.avanoo.com

Thanks,
Dan

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Boxturret
Oct 3, 2013

Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

rip morayeel

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





EorayMel posted:

I've spent the last 18 months with a reclusive scientist (Wilford) building a technology that can gather all of the world's wisdom, and put it into a bank – a community wisdom bank – for everyone's benefit. Anyone can deposit their own wisdom into the bank and get returns of wisdom from millions of never-before-accessible communities.

Here's an example of the bank in action:
1. KoolKat seeks wisdom by asking this question: Do you approve of Bush's job performance?
2. Thousands deposit wisdom by answering “yes” or “no”.
3. SuperG taps into never-before-available wisdom from, say, Christians over 65 and from Christians under 18. He finds out that Christian seniors are three times more likely to approve of Bush than Christian minors.
4. LayZGirl taps into never-before-available wisdom from men and women living in California. She finds out that California men are 15% more likely than California women to approve of Bush's performance.
5. SuperG and LaZGirl both share their wisdom in the form of comments made available for all other depositors to see.

Here's why I think you will love Avanoo http://www.avanoo.com:
1. It's about wisdom. At Avanoo, people have access to never-before-available community wisdom – perspective on political issues, relevant dating advice, preferred content, and so much more.
2. It's about community. At Avanoo, every community has a say – not just those holding the microphone or carrying a loudspeaker.
3. It's about a better world. At Avanoo, wisdom can be deposited and accessed by anyone, but never depleted. Thus, as more of us join in, we get wiser and the world gets better!

Avanoo is a company of just two (Wilford & me). We've set a crazy goal of 100 million wisdom deposits in just 100 days. If we can do that, we'll be well on our way to gathering all the world's wisdom!

If you'd like to be a part of this, and create and access unprecedented, please join in! It should be an amazing ride.

http://www.avanoo.com

Thanks,
Dan

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

This is good for bitcoin.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

EorayMel posted:

I've spent the last 18 months with a reclusive scientist (Wilford) building a technology that can gather all of the world's wisdom, and put it into a bank – a community wisdom bank – for everyone's benefit
ok so who is John Galt?

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

ask your pharmacist if tarsier-ashpool is right for you


Chris Knight posted:

ok so who is John Galt?

many people saying this

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

many questions on Galt. new questions.

Boxturret
Oct 3, 2013

Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

Chris Knight posted:

ok so who is John Galt?

a man who swears-by his life and his love of it-that he will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for him.

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

it's the journey
not the destination
as we know



"YOU TRIED" DIVISION


Chris Knight posted:

ok so who is John Galt?

Here's a hint:

https://twitter.com/existentialcoms/status/1464686423596945408

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

THE HORROR
THE HORROR






the icing on the cake is it's actually way more than $4.9 billion lmao

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!


Everyone's asking who is John Galt, nobody's asking how is John Galt...

Penisface
Jul 17, 2008

"I am Albino. You wish to see me?"


but i like how...

Boxturret
Oct 3, 2013

Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

Paladinus posted:

Everyone's asking who is John Galt, nobody's asking how is John Galt...

mr galt doesn't care about anyone else and would be incredibly insulted if anyone cared for him

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!


Boxturret posted:

mr galt doesn't care about anyone else and would be incredibly insulted if anyone cared for him

He doesn't care if he cares about other people caring either.

Boxturret
Oct 3, 2013

Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

Paladinus posted:

He doesn't care if he cares about other people caring either.

no he cares very deeply, that's why he made that year long radio broadcast telling everyone how much he doesn't care about them

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Boxturret posted:

no he cares very deeply, that's why he made that year long radio broadcast telling everyone how much he doesn't care about them
and another thing: I don't care. Plz don't broadcast via radio that I care

The outro of The Social Network but with the other idiot meme billionaire

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


ultrafilter posted:

random.org's whole purpose is to provide random numbers based on physical processes. I'm not sure exactly what the issue is here.
it's always a bad idea to ask a random person on the internet what exact passwd you should use to protect anything you care about

more generally, you're expanding your circle of transitive trust relationships in ways you probably aren't expecting. you're always more or less forced to accept as an article of ideological faith the security of: the hardware that's generating the random noise; the algorithm that's sampling bits from the noise source; the bios/os/libraries/whatever that provide the high-level interface you're using to access that poo poo; and the app that's using the api. if you're using a third party website for all this you're adding everybody involved with the administration of the web site, the code used by the web site, and poo poo you're probably not thinking of right now unless you've stepped on this particular rake (or seen someone else step on it), like: your DNS services, your route tables, and so on

and this is another example of the implementation errors hiding the gross conceptual error, because any device where you might have need for a cryptographically secure randomness source already has one onboard and so you should be using it instead of cobbling together something that relies on, among other things, a functioning internet connection in order to work

there's that bit that douglas adams writes about everything that the sirius cybernetics corporation is such garbage that the fact that they don't do anything well is concealed by the sense of accomplishment whenever you manage to get them to do anything at all. crypto projects are sort of the ones complement of this idea, where all the implementation errors tend to distract from the crippling fundamental design flaws

Boxturret
Oct 3, 2013

Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

why do you need some site to give you a random number, 3 is right there

cool av
Mar 2, 2013



Boxturret posted:

why do people always think that if you test it with a tiny amount that means it's safe to throw everything you own in the hole??

it's exactly what the scammers want you to do

i got a WoW gold from a guy in stormwind advertising he'd give back double whatever you traded him

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/jorgestolfi/status/1464668418150391809

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 9, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.




congrats on reinventing CDO squared I guess

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

NUKE THEIR ASS
TAKE THEIR GAS


Slippery Tilde

elon pls call the crisis counseling line, there's life after tax

Boxturret
Oct 3, 2013

Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqr0oER03SE

I can't wait to be contacted by elon msuk, personally, with a personal video to me only asking me by name to give him bitcoins so he can give me 5x back

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.



the man formerly best known as “the one that isn’t simon pegg” is now on the train too
https://twitter.com/timmaughan/status/1464751207340257280?s=21

Grace Baiting
Jul 20, 2012

Audi famam illius;
Cucurrit quaeque
Tetigit destruens.





Penisface posted:

but i like how...

agreed, how is NOT john galt

DerekSmartymans
Feb 14, 2005

The
Copacetic
Ascetic


EorayMel posted:

Code is slaw dog OP

All that :effort: and paraphrased by Bitcoin Threads Poet in Residence.

DerekSmartymans
Feb 14, 2005

The
Copacetic
Ascetic


SubG posted:


crypto projects are sort of the ones complement of this idea, where all the implementation errors tend to distract from the crippling fundamental design flaws


That’s Gentoo.

Nybble
Jun 28, 2008

praise chuck, raise heck

njsykora posted:

the man formerly best known as “the one that isn’t simon pegg” is now on the train too
https://twitter.com/timmaughan/status/1464751207340257280?s=21

1.2 million followers, posts this:

https://twitter.com/nickjfrost/status/1464749188604956673?s=21

@doodtown only has 479 followers lmao

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SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


@doodtown sounds like somebody's prinny erotic fan fiction

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