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Nick Buntline
Dec 20, 2007
Doesn't know the impossible.



PlasticAutomaton posted:

As much of an ethics quandary as this is, what's clear is that Gin probably can't take another shot and Q-Taro is too much of a coward to do the right thing. Meanwhile Fakeo here was designed as a trap to get someone killed, and is not the ten year old that only deserves headpats.

That's actually also a good point:

Goon Boots posted:

And I wonder when the grand prize ticket to the surface will come into play.

Q-Taro explicitly had the most traded coins of anyone here, spent a good portion of time staring at the 200 coin machine that probably has the escape ticket in it (assumption, but it makes sense), and tried to give Sara an overly generous trade in a shady manner on the last day. Dude is/was already planning to ditch everyone. It doesn't matter if they could switch midway through the shots, he is never, ever going to press that button.

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Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction


Gin, you dumb little poo poo, hold your stupid stuffed animal in front of the targeting laser.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


I'm voting to Push her.

Yeah she's alive and that's what makes this an actual decision but there's no way they'd let two Reko's live. And she's a Doll, we've no idea what her body is built like. She could be forcefully controlled at any time as far as we know. It's harsh, but she's too dangerous to be left alive.

Jadecore
Mar 10, 2018

They say money can't buy happiness, but it sure does help.

Veryslightlymad posted:

Gin, you dumb little poo poo, hold your stupid stuffed animal in front of the targeting laser.

I know the sprites are his usual ones for purposes of showing his mood, but, uh. Gin's kinda got both his arms restrained and is like six feet up in the air strapped to a target.

Be nice to the boy.

Oblivion4568238
Oct 10, 2012

The Inquisition.
What a show.
The Inquisition.
Here. We. Go.

College Slice

wologar posted:

They're all dolls, aren't they?


Goon Boots posted:

Also this.


Mystic Mongol posted:

Given that they're all dolls and they've been doing this for centuries, probably, Spare her. I still think those win rates are descriptive and not predictive.

The thread seems pretty set on this, but... what's your proof? Your actual, solid evidence? Ranger just confirmed that the Reko here is a doll, who was a replacement from the Room of Lies, but under your current theory, wouldn't that mean she just... replaced another doll, who did have the proper personality tweaks from Alice's murder? It just doesn't line up, if they already had an up-to-date Reko AI, they would have simply used it again for the new body. Unless you'd like to accuse Ranger of lying about not being able to lie.

I'm abstaining from voting, because I played before. And caught myself on some dumb corner of logic and ran out of time my first go-around, anyways.

Veryslightlymad posted:

Gin, you dumb little poo poo, hold your stupid stuffed animal in front of the targeting laser.

He can't, it's on the ground and he's being held up crucifixion style, even though he and Q-Taro don't get new talking sprites to reflect that:

LiefKatano
Aug 31, 2018

I swear, by my sword and capote, that I will once again prove victorious!!


Push her

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction


I am aware of why Gin can't put the stupid stuffed animal in front of the laser. I just find it funny that Reko gets a special sprite for this scene, but Gin doesn't.

Fumbles
Mar 21, 2013

Can I get a reroll?



Push. They're just as likely to kill this doll, or the real actual Reko, as not. They also said that fifth stinger was designed to kill a full grown adult so I think there's no way to just rotate the thing and be cheeky and have both people survive. Push the doll and save the real people, even if the doll is almost indistinguishable from real, because if we don't they might pull some cheeky bullshit about "only needing one Reko in the game."

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Oblivion4568238 posted:

The thread seems pretty set on this, but... what's your proof? Your actual, solid evidence? Ranger just confirmed that the Reko here is a doll, who was a replacement from the Room of Lies, but under your current theory, wouldn't that mean she just... replaced another doll, who did have the proper personality tweaks from Alice's murder? It just doesn't line up, if they already had an up-to-date Reko AI, they would have simply used it again for the new body.

The proof is that they have the technology to completely reproduce humans, and the resources to build the hell tower. If you can do that, why bother running tests with the originals? Combined with the win rates, it just feels more likely they're all fake, not just a few of them.

Torture twenty humans to death, nine of which didn't make it out of the first room? What a waste. The kidnappers obviously cared about Sara specifically, and she could have easily died in the first room before they learned or taught her or whatever they're up to. The whole scheme makes more sense if they're being tested repeatedly, over and over, to learn as much as possible about... I dunno. How humans act under extreme stress. Under which conditions people ally with their enemies. Where the yakuza hid all their pirate gold.

They have mental health resources available so the subjects complete as many tests as possible, if the contestants weren't replaceable the first room wouldn't have killed so many of them.

Oblivion4568238 posted:

Unless you'd like to accuse Ranger of lying about not being able to lie.

Who's unable to lie? About "important stuff"? C'mon.

idhrendur
Aug 20, 2016



Spare her.

Smiling Knight
May 31, 2011



Mystic Mongol posted:

The proof is that they have the technology to completely reproduce humans, and the resources to build the hell tower. If you can do that, why bother running tests with the originals? Combined with the win rates, it just feels more likely they're all fake, not just a few of them.

Torture twenty humans to death, nine of which didn't make it out of the first room? What a waste. The kidnappers obviously cared about Sara specifically, and she could have easily died in the first room before they learned or taught her or whatever they're up to. The whole scheme makes more sense if they're being tested repeatedly, over and over, to learn as much as possible about... I dunno. How humans act under extreme stress. Under which conditions people ally with their enemies. Where the yakuza hid all their pirate gold.

They have mental health resources available so the subjects complete as many tests as possible, if the contestants weren't replaceable the first room wouldn't have killed so many of them.


Who's unable to lie? About "important stuff"? C'mon.

You raise some good points, but on the other hand this appears to be a once-in-a-lifetime big event, that would only make sense and have weight with real people. I think this is either a bizarre competition to determine the next crime boss, a high stakes gambling event, or an elaborate revenge plot -- in all three cases, the event only matters once the real people are involved. It's quite possible that the masterminds ran simulations of the event, or maybe, maybe full dry runs with dolls, but I think this batch is all real. Look forward to being quoted as totally wrong once all is revealed.

Obscil
Feb 27, 2012

PLEASE LIKE ME!

Spare her.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


im good at trolly problems!

PUSH HER SARA DONT WORRY THEY'RE ARENT HUMAN THEYRE ROBOTS

WhalerWren
Oct 9, 2012


Push her.

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007




Spare her

Eeepies
May 29, 2013

No, that's Magic!


Push her. Gin is definitely a human, this Reko is not.

Amidiri
Apr 26, 2010


PUSH HER because it's not about Fake Reko or Real Reko, it's about Fake Reko or Real Gin.

Insertnamehere31
Jan 22, 2012

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali faced an eighty-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire Earth was destroyed.



push her

Why would real Reko punch the Mishima ai? Did he know the kidnapper’s plan to pull a switcheroo and baited her into killing him just so that there would be a mark to prove who the fake was?

Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.

I still have doubts about whether or not Gin is an actual participant. We haven't seen his neck yet.

A Bystander
Oct 10, 2012


Whether or not he is one seems to not matter since they're already willing to kill him. Sure, if the poison is bullshit and he is in on it, that's one thing, but schemes as crazy as this can probably lead to someone on the kidnappers' side willing to throw a teammate under the bus if it was beneficial to them (he could blab, it was funny, etc.)

Anyway, it seems like this false Reko is already hosed, so there's no point in me voting.

Akumu
Apr 24, 2003



Spare her, she's just as alive as original Reko. Don't do a murder.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Push her. We're gonna be feeling guilty for one dead person on this either way between Gin and Reko I reckon, may as well make it a neutral deficit of one dead Reko and one alive Reko.

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.



Neddy Seagoon posted:

one dead Reko and one alive Reko.

So, mathematically, it's like she never existed, and therefore we don't have to feel anything about her. :pseudo:

Eumenides
Sep 24, 2007

This is the face of Lawful Good!



Fun Shoe

I'm gonna go with Spare Her. This fake Reko seems essentially indistinguishable from a regular human, so killing her would be morally equivalent to killing Gin. The real difference is that one would require us to actively commit the act, whereas Gin at least is in the hands of Q-Taro, who despite his behaviour still has the option of either sparing Gin or possibly even saving them both. Either way killing this Reko is a bad look for us.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Eumenides posted:

I'm gonna go with Spare Her. This fake Reko seems essentially indistinguishable from a regular human, so killing her would be morally equivalent to killing Gin. The real difference is that one would require us to actively commit the act, whereas Gin at least is in the hands of Q-Taro, who despite his behaviour still has the option of either sparing Gin or possibly even saving them both. Either way killing this Reko is a bad look for us.

The point of this exercise is clearly to make us waste time agonizing over killing the Doll-Reko so either Gin or Q-Taro suffer more stings while everyone talks in circles though. We also don't know what other kind of programming she may have, so having a Doll made by the people running this game among the group seems certain to bite them in the rear end down the road simply because they forgot that fact and trusted her.

Polderjoch
Jun 27, 2019


Gonna go with Spare Her, just based on the logic of this pre-game thing never having needed someone to actually die before; if 5 shots is enough to kill one man, then Q-taro and Gin can swap around. Even if Q-taro is a coward, not pushing Reko means we get time to explain that to Q-taro and hope he'll do the right thing.

Also like, this entire thing rides on them managing to plant a fake through the room of lies, and based on how the entire thing could have been foiled if reko just didn't wear gloves, I feel like there has to be a way out of this that doesn't involve murder, even if it's a "fake".

sleeptalker
Feb 17, 2011



Ranger is encouraging the other option, so spare her.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Insertnamehere31 posted:

push her

Why would real Reko punch the Mishima ai? Did he know the kidnapper’s plan to pull a switcheroo and baited her into killing him just so that there would be a mark to prove who the fake was?

Because he knew Nao would want to keep seeing him in spite of her resolve and he wanted to remove the temptation.

Fumbles
Mar 21, 2013

Can I get a reroll?



Polderjoch posted:

Gonna go with Spare Her, just based on the logic of this pre-game thing never having needed someone to actually die before; if 5 shots is enough to kill one man, then Q-taro and Gin can swap around. Even if Q-taro is a coward, not pushing Reko means we get time to explain that to Q-taro and hope he'll do the right thing.

It specifically said the fifth one alone would be enough to kill a full grown man, so if we leave it to the stinger someone dies. It's either let a definite person die or kill a maybe person, I don't think there's any cheeky way out of this without something dying it might as well be the robot.

Akumu
Apr 24, 2003



Fumbles posted:

It specifically said the fifth one alone would be enough to kill a full grown man, so if we leave it to the stinger someone dies. It's either let a definite person die or kill a maybe person, I don't think there's any cheeky way out of this without something dying it might as well be the robot.

No, it said that all five would be enough to kill a full-grown man.

A Bystander
Oct 10, 2012


I don't think the kidnappers, with all the prep time and resources at their disposal along with an apparent desire to watch these people suffer, would allow Q-Taro to just alternate darts with the child who is probably already on his way out unless someone does something soon. Hell, they'd probably have them both die anyway if they tried it.

Veriun
Mar 9, 2013

As long as we're alive,
good things will come.

And we'll be okay.


Push her.

It's awful, and she doesn't deserve it.
But Q-taro has repeatedly proven himself too unreliable to even attempt to take the remaining stingers and hope for the best... and maybe his button doesn't even work anymore now that the first stinger's been fired? I can see that happening.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Veriun posted:

Push her.

It's awful, and she doesn't deserve it.
But Q-taro has repeatedly proven himself too unreliable to even attempt to take the remaining stingers and hope for the best... and maybe his button doesn't even work anymore now that the first stinger's been fired? I can see that happening.

Don't forget Joe. “Just keep pressing it! The device will be slowed the more you press, and maybe even stop!”

vector_to
Mar 7, 2013



sleeptalker posted:

Ranger is encouraging the other option, so spare her.

Gonna have to throw my money behind this. Spare her

Chatrapati
Nov 6, 2012


Push it

It's a robot designed to mess with us so that more people die.

cardinale
Jul 11, 2016



Akumu posted:

Spare her, she's just as alive as original Reko. Don't do a murder.
I don't think Sara could bring herself to push after what happened with Joe, so spare the doll

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



The original Reko is still alive somewhere. If we spare this one, will we have two Rekos running around later?

I suspect that whichever way it goes they're going to kill her just to keep things tidy.

I'd say I think it's fairer to let her make the decision, but this doll Reko probably won't do the right thing. We've seen so far that the Reko of three years ago wasn't quite as kind as she later grew to be.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






Push her. This is the trolly problem, but with the choices being "a young child" and "a poor Xerox copy of one of the other players".

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Also I have a horrid feeling that if we leave this Reko alive, she's going to kill the real Reko to 'Be the real one'. that's how this usually goes.

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LawrenceFriday
Nov 2, 2009

I am an elemental spirit summoned up from the Land of the Dead itself and given one purpose, one skill, one desire: To DRIVE. Or, to change oil or adjust timing belts if no driving jobs are open.

Having seen both outcomes, push her.

e: Okay, okay.

LawrenceFriday fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 11, 2020

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