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If her name is Beatrice but everyone calls her Betty, I’m gonna punch a homeless man’s puppy.
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Sep 22, 2020 04:16
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A rare quasi-political Lio:
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Sep 22, 2020 04:22
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fun hater posted:knowing full well what kind of disturbing history lynn johnston has self-confessed to in interviews, i think some of the heat she pulls from posters in here in can be really weird and off-putting. especially when its prying and picking at minutiae like this. i dont think a comic in which the mild observation is "being a mom is a full time job" compares to like...the real things she's done. I agree and generally I let it slide because I get where the animosity is coming from. But at times it veers dangerously close to "ugh, why doesn't this woman just shut up and accept her place" even though I really don't think any of the posters mean for it to come across that way. That being said, I think laying off the moralizing nitpicking would be good for some of the comics in this thread. Parenting is hard, exhausting work and every parent I know finds the limits of their patience eventually. It's ok to frown. It's ok to grumble. We don't need to hear tut tuts about it every single day and as maudlin as Foob can be and as hosed up as a lot of events in Johnston's life were I do think it became popular for a reason, and that reason was that it showed a mother who was allowed to be overwhelmed and irritated, which is a really valuable and healthy thing. Save the vitriol for stuff that really deserves it, not for "mother is tired from having to run endless errands and is not beaming with permanent joy."
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Sep 22, 2020 04:23
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9/10ths of what she does is emotionally abusive Boomer poo poo.
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Sep 22, 2020 05:33
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If you honestly think 90% of the character's actions are emotionally abusive than it sounds like the conversation should be about whether it needs to be in this thread.
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Sep 22, 2020 05:41
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its a fairly unpleasant comic, yes
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Sep 22, 2020 05:45
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Zelda 
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Sep 22, 2020 06:19
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How Wonderful! posted:If you honestly think 90% of the character's actions are emotionally abusive than it sounds like the conversation should be about whether it needs to be in this thread. Now I want to just say... most everything with baby April is stuff I would have enjoyed before the knowledge that the fictional character was created as an attempted emotional manipulation of Lynn's husband to have a third child, which makes a ton of stuff come off as really creepy not because it's bad in-character but because the out of character context that this is a tool of manipulation is both unsettling and often almost absurd, especially with the amount of comics that are about how babies cry and fuss a lot and are exhausting to care for, but it's okay because Elly handles it all and her husband just deals with baby smiles and giggles.
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Sep 22, 2020 06:19
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How Wonderful! posted:If you honestly think 90% of the character's actions are emotionally abusive than it sounds like the conversation should be about whether it needs to be in this thread. With the context coloring it, a lot of strips fall in a different light, but I'm not sure I'd say it's bad enough to be banished from the thread.
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Sep 22, 2020 06:33
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I just want to say that I burst out laughing that Zelda just rolled up with a fresh new baby in the midst of this conversation. I'm heading to bed soon but I'd like to see some more input on Foob because I'm really not sure what the best next step is. I don't like banning strips outright as a rule, but this is also not the first time I have heard someone bring up the issue that the discourse around it is tremendously bleak and more than one person has expressed to me that a desire to not have to read comments about child abuse every day has kept them away from this thread. Foob isn't going to change because, well, Johnston gave up on changing it, so all we can really change is the conversation around it. I hope it's obvious that I don't think only nice comments about Sweet Lynn from now on is a good solution but I don't think the current discourse around it is healthy or entertaining either. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 06:36
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yeah dont get me twisted im rushing to protect it. please, i'm normal. i know it sucks rear end.
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Sep 22, 2020 06:45
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Daddy Daze Take It From the Tinkersons  Dark Side of the Horse 
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Sep 22, 2020 06:47
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Zelda has a kid! 
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Sep 22, 2020 07:02
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Bad Machinery
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Sep 22, 2020 07:14
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Johnny Walker posted:Zelda has a kid!
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Sep 22, 2020 07:43
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Some Guy TT posted:the very heterosexual act of accidental pregnancy. At least that's what I'm assuming happened
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Sep 22, 2020 08:03
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I just post the Foob, Lynn in hindsight is not very nice. She's no Rowling at least? Family Circus  Rose is Rose  One Big Happy  Foob  Pluggers  Bizarro 
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Sep 22, 2020 08:40
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King Aroo 2/15/54 Mopsy 3/4/43 
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Sep 22, 2020 08:56
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Johnny Walker posted:Zelda has a kid! I have to admit, I did a double-take at that, too.
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Sep 22, 2020 08:58
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Haifisch posted:Peter noticed a liquor store holdup while on a jog. Why the gently caress did he bring his wallet with him on a jog?
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Sep 22, 2020 09:05
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Slammy posted:They'll Do It Every Time (March 15, 1941)
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Sep 22, 2020 09:08
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Zereth posted:... Parsley, canned tuna, water, and a teaspoon of worcestershire sauce. You know, I don't think following the recipe exactly would've been any good either. I assume we're just seeing the bits she's choosing to change. There are missing steps between each panel, as evidenced by the lemon and bottle on the bench in panel two and the fact that she's already cooking in panel three when the daughter is only just reading out the instruction to begin steaming.
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Sep 22, 2020 09:26
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How Wonderful! posted:I just want to say that I burst out laughing that Zelda just rolled up with a fresh new baby in the midst of this conversation. I'm heading to bed soon but I'd like to see some more input on Foob because I'm really not sure what the best next step is. I don't like banning strips outright as a rule, but this is also not the first time I have heard someone bring up the issue that the discourse around it is tremendously bleak and more than one person has expressed to me that a desire to not have to read comments about child abuse every day has kept them away from this thread. Lynn Johnston is certainly not perfect but the actual stuff in the strip was pretty mild. The way everything gets taken so negatively here border on the absurd. It's really strange to see an expression of annoyance at a baby crying discussed as demonstrating abusive intent, or assuming a plan to pick up her daughter meant the daughter would be left waiting excessively. I have an adopted son who experienced some real abuse with his birth family and when I see Foob being discussed as showing abusive parenting my reaction is "you've got to be kidding me". There's a place for mockery of strange and silly elements in comic strips - and this thread is actually that place! - but it's really overboard with Foob.
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Sep 22, 2020 10:08
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Making fun of how lovely FOOB is started this series of threads.
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Sep 22, 2020 10:09
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Haifisch posted:There's a lot of it where the iffy parts could be handwaved with how parenting has evolved over the past few decades as people learned more about what actually helps kids turn out well. Without the context of how Lynn was irl, I'd probably call Elly a subpar parent with some toxic attitudes to sort out(see the arc where Mike is shipped off to a farm because weird classism about the job he found+Elly not-so-subtly hoping it'd break him up with his girlfriend as a semi-recent example) but not a monster. This is how I feel about Foob as well. Knowing the context about the author IRL really colors the comic for me. I get that parenting is hard and tiring, but Foob makes it seem like having kids is ruining Elly's life. Compare this to Zelda, where we see Tove and her wife tired and struggling as they raise their baby but you get the feeling that they think it's all worth it. Is the one with pink hair Nova? It looks good on her. Zelda having a kid who seems to be the same age as Tove was something I didn't expect though. I'm guessing this is like a soft reboot?
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Sep 22, 2020 10:52
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Slammy posted:And He Boob. (July 17, 1917) This comic is just anti water propaganda.
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Sep 22, 2020 11:19
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Horace posted:This comic is just anti water propaganda. Big Hydration has gone unchallenged long enough
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Sep 22, 2020 12:11
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Tiggum posted:I assume we're just seeing the bits she's choosing to change. There are missing steps between each panel, as evidenced by the lemon and bottle on the bench in panel two and the fact that she's already cooking in panel three when the daughter is only just reading out the instruction to begin steaming. Even so, a dish based around steamed canned tuna with parsley as a herb is fairly peak 1940s cooking.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:17
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amigolupus posted:
Maybe?
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Sep 22, 2020 12:36
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I wonder if Ariel is the father.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:41
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amigolupus posted:Is the one with pink hair Nova? It looks good on her. Zelda having a kid who seems to be the same age as Tove was something I didn't expect though. I'm guessing this is like a soft reboot? There's so little attempt at context I'm wondering if Niedestam is just dropping the pretense that this is anything but a fanfic of her own life. Alhazred, you said Zelda started up again this year. Am I correct in assuming that you started posting Zelda because you saw it in the wild somewhere, and that everything up until either this point or some other point in the near future was just catch up?
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Sep 22, 2020 12:45
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curtadams posted:I find the extremely negative discourse about Foob disorienting, because when it came out, it was viewed as a fresh and honest take on family life. None of the characters are perfect in Foob, and they're not supposed to be because they're supposed to be real. It was held up constantly as a good strip talking about actual human relationships as opposed to the paper-thin characters of strips like Blondie and Hi and Lois. She was also the first comic strip writer to add a sympathetic gay character to her strip and she accepted and withstood a LOT of heat and hate at the time for doing the right thing there. At the time it was generally considered an example of progressive parenting and indeed got a moderate amount of criticism from conservatives for that.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:48
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This was funnier in my head. Sorry.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:55
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My two cents on FooB: I can't remember seeing the mother ever looking happy with her kids. Like at all. It just seems like she is constantly smoldering with anger, and there's never anything that makes her smile. Like the kids are always just a burden, never something positive. That plus the bits about the real lyn just makes things feel like it is difficult to be charitable when reading FooB. I don't think it should be banned or anything, and I do think that some of the comments on it are a bit much, but I do feel at least a good bit of the hate is understandable.
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Sep 22, 2020 12:59
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I'd like FOOB more if there was more to it, but it seems like the punchline is 'Lynn has the thousand yard stare after a character says something contrary to her experience.' for 90% of the strips. There was a Sunday strip that lays this out pretty good. 6 panels of Lynn doing tiring chores and being with children, John comes home, Lynn asks how his day was, John looks happy and well rested, says something like 'oh it was just exhausting, I had 6 patients!' while Lynn has the  face and looks like she just got back from a double shift at the steel mill.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:16
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Yvonmukluk posted:Bad Machinery "Based on overheard shouts from C. Grote" 
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Sep 22, 2020 13:18
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His Divine Shadow posted:I wonder if Ariel is the father. Between Mr. Boop's new direction and all of the questions raised by Zelda's timeskip, I have never felt more manipulated by comic strips.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:20
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Don't change anything bout how FOOB is posted, it's literally the birthplace of this thread - just accept that each individual strip is going to be scrutinized to goon hyperbole, but also that hyperbole is based in true stories and things Lynn has actually admitted to. (Though some of these things I wonder if they're the result of a 10-year old game of internet telephone. I've never seen a source on the car crash story, for example.) FOOB is one of the most interesting case studies to me in how this medium works. Most people have lukewarm-to-positive feelings on it because you only see it in little bits every now and then. You catch it, you go "heh, parenting" you move on. By it's nature, it's supposed to be ephemeral, and as others have pointed out, most of it is fine in a vacuum. It's when you read a lot of it, in a row, every day, for a decade, with author interviews for context, like a loving weirdo psychopath, you start to see themes and patterns. And when you have that, you can't unsee it, so maybe you read more into the more innocent individual strips than you normally would. I think more to the point is that Lynn Johnson deserved the acclaim she got at the time for making a realistic slice-of-life strip. It's just that "realistic slice of life" often meant "socially acceptable emotional abuse" for most of the strip's run. BCN  Phoebe  Wallace  Curtis 
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Sep 22, 2020 13:29
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Sep 22, 2020 13:31
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Vargo posted:Phoebe This body swap is really messing with my head because I always read Phoebe and Marigold with very distinct voices and swapping the cadence but not the tone just makes them sound bizarre. Weird to think that if there's ever a cartoon it will completely warp my understanding of what they sound like. I still remember how I originally read Huey and Riley in Boondocks as having relatively deep voices which just seemed very ridiculous when I saw the cartoon and was like, oh, right, they're children.
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Sep 22, 2020 13:41
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