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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Chambers must have wanted to GTFO for them to not even write him out.

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SunshineDanceParty
Feb 7, 2006

One Road. Two Friends. One Ass.


esperterra posted:

There's no denying it was needlessly convoluted tho. They tried to make a season of television impossible to guess, which is, like, the opposite point of writing a mystery. You should want the reader/viewer to potentially pick up the pieces before the reveal!

e: which is precisely why the reveal in S1works so well, whether you love it or hate it. you could have been suspicious of the twist by like episode 2 just by paying attention to the set dressing/logos
I've seen a lot of showrunners complain about having a twists figured out immediately. Which seems silly because if you're writing and designing a good show foreshadowing is a good thing, and people interpreting it correctly means you did well. I think S2 of Westworld was the biggest reaction by a writing team against that, and the overall negative reaction to it hopefully curbs that instinct to make shows convoluted for the sake of being convoluted.

SunshineDanceParty fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jan 13, 2020

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



Nothing that blew me away, but optimistic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi2h1Zfr7fs

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






feedmyleg posted:

Nothing that blew me away, but optimistic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi2h1Zfr7fs

yessssssss been waiting for this to have a trailer

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






IS THAT A FUCKIN LAURA MARLING SONG gently caress YEAH IT IS

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


GreenNight posted:

I really don't read Reddit so I had no idea about any of that.

Hard to put one over the hive mind.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



Croatoan posted:

Ok so, Westworld Season 3. This poo poo never came out? The trailer with Aaron Paul came out like 7 months ago. I didn't finish season one because it was a bit too rapey. I never watched season 2. Should I go back and watch them?

Season 2 was pretty interesting, AFAIK most of the hate seemed to come from people who had it all written out in their heads and then the season went another direction entirely. Then again, I also have a pretty fuzzy memory of it all since I binged it alone instead of weekly with friends as it came out as with S1. I remember really liking the escalation of Maeve's character and I'm of course rooting for the AIs to get rights and citizenship in the regular world. IIRC the Samurai World poo poo kind of goes nowhere and seems to retread character beats I thought we'd already covered.

edit: Hating Wil Wheaton reminds me of hating football. For years it was just that football sucks, sucks to hear about, sucks that it's always around, sucks that people won't shut the gently caress up about it - but whatever it just sucks and that's all you can say. Then at some point you find actually good reasons to hate it besides "you don't like it," like it abuses players, takes advantage of taxpayers, protects domestic abusers, fights against people's rights, corruption, etc. For Wil we got to graduate from "Wesley sucks" to "Wil himself was best friend's with a sex abuser and apparently never cared enough to say anything, try to stop it, or stop being the dude's friend."

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jan 13, 2020

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Khanstant posted:

Season 2 was pretty interesting, AFAIK most of the hate seemed to come from people who had it all written out in their heads and then the season went another direction entirely. Then again, I also have a pretty fuzzy memory of it all since I binged it alone instead of weekly with friends as it came out as with S1. I remember really liking the escalation of Maeve's character and I'm of course rooting for the AIs to get rights and citizenship in the regular world. IIRC the Samurai World poo poo kind of goes nowhere and seems to retread character beats I thought we'd already covered.

The dislike for Westworld s2 is because the plot was legitimately bad and full of stupid poo poo. The "Welcome to Westworld" scene, the data in Abernathy's head(which was a s2 retcon that made the whole thing from s1 even more stupid), Dolores finally smuggling things out of the park, random character is actually a robot, the whole flooding of the valley "mystery" which made 0 sense because there were a ton of people who witnessed it and probably more stuff I am forgetting.

S2 was told in a convoluted manner, but the story itself was also poor and nonsensical if you even stop to think about it.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Croatoan posted:

Oscar chat: The Joker got 11 nominations. It wasn't even a good movie imo. It was Ok, just not all that great. The Irishman, 1917 and Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood follow with 10 nominations each. The Irishman was good just it could have been better if Scorsese cut like an hour off. Once Upon A Time In Hollywood was pretty good though.


I run an annual goonvote at http://crucialweb.net/oscars for anyone interested. Doesn't take long at all, it's just clicking a few boxes.

Everything is scrubbed from last year, so you'll need to make a new login (it literally just asks for a name and password, no need to verify but don't lose the PW as there's no reset - you'll need it if you want to edit, or see how your scores compare).

To join the Something Awful group the password is 'iamprotected', of course.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






The thing that bugged me the most about S2 is more a thematic miss:

Maeve's whole storyline in Shogun World should have focused on the relationship between SW Maeve and SW Clementine, and not SW Maeve and SW Maeve's daughter. Considering the season ends with this huge, climactic standoff between Maeve and Clementine, who have an entire relationship built up from S1 that then basically gets forgotten all of S2 til the Wifi Staredown it's such a missed opportunity.

Croatoan
Jun 24, 2005

I am inevitable.
ROBBLE GROBBLE


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

The dislike for Westworld s2 is because the plot was legitimately bad and full of stupid poo poo. The "Welcome to Westworld" scene, the data in Abernathy's head(which was a s2 retcon that made the whole thing from s1 even more stupid), Dolores finally smuggling things out of the park, random character is actually a robot, the whole flooding of the valley "mystery" which made 0 sense because there were a ton of people who witnessed it and probably more stuff I am forgetting.

S2 was told in a convoluted manner, but the story itself was also poor and nonsensical if you even stop to think about it.

Thanks for all the spoilers! Really cool!

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



To me, a normal brained person: it was fine.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

The dislike for Westworld s2 is because the plot was legitimately bad and full of stupid poo poo. The "Welcome to Westworld" scene, the data in Abernathy's head(which was a s2 retcon that made the whole thing from s1 even more stupid), Dolores finally smuggling things out of the park, random character is actually a robot, the whole flooding of the valley "mystery" which made 0 sense because there were a ton of people who witnessed it and probably more stuff I am forgetting.

S2 was told in a convoluted manner, but the story itself was also poor and nonsensical if you even stop to think about it.

Yeah, just read the timeline and it was convoluted just for the sake of stopping viewers from guessing everything. My hopes for s2 were that hosts get to break free of their horrible human-torture-gratification hellscape existences and it accomplished that, but it does seem like they took a sensible linear set of events and then remixed them for the sake of not-clarity. I was being dismissive before, these are legit criticisms now that I'm reliving them. Also I'm remembering how I'm not actually rooting for most of the characters, gently caress all rich people.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

I enjoyed Westworld S2, but I can’t remember like 85 percent of it. For whatever reason it just didn’t stick with me like S1.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Croatoan posted:

Thanks for all the spoilers! Really cool!

Nothing I said was a spoiler unless you haven't seen a single s3 trailer(which shows Dolores out of the park) or believe that random character is a robot was something they actually built up and dropped hints at instead of deciding on the actual day of shooting the scene so that it was a complete surprise to everyone, including the actor.

Khanstant posted:

Yeah, just read the timeline and it was convoluted just for the sake of stopping viewers from guessing everything. My hopes for s2 were that hosts get to break free of their horrible human-torture-gratification hellscape existences and it accomplished that, but it does seem like they took a sensible linear set of events and then remixed them for the sake of not-clarity. I was being dismissive before, these are legit criticisms now that I'm reliving them. Also I'm remembering how I'm not actually rooting for most of the characters, gently caress all rich people.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Croatoan posted:

Thanks for all the spoilers! Really cool!

It aired over a year ago dude

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


Croatoan posted:

Thanks for all the spoilers! Really cool!

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



And this is a general chat thread that isn't strictly about the show, and people binge watch these things months/years after they air. We've had this conversation so many times now.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



Sure, I dislike Westworld S2 because it's a convoluted mess. But I dislike it more for being a series of missed opportunities—not of my own head-canon, but of interesting science-fiction concepts that are set up and never explored. The first season spends a huge chunk of time examining the nature of consciousness and exploring the implications of a man-made (or human-assisted) consciousness on both the artificial beings themselves and the humans who interact with them. On what makes a being truly conscious, on the humanizing nature of empathy and the dehumanizing animal instincts of man. The second season, however, didn't seem all that concerned with thoughtful exploration of issues surrounding AI, consciousness, or human nature at all.

Like, in Samurai World you have one character encountering her own Eastern double, another person who shares her programming at a core level. Who shares her soul. Two persons born from one mind. And then... they never touch on the implications of that, instead dedicating their time to a lame cowboy vs. ninja vs. samurai battle that was extremely poorly shot. Bernard encounters a room full of his body, perfect copies that might make one question their own corporeal nature, that could make one question their own unique nature in this world, but then it goes absolutely nowhere. There are also drone hosts who aren't modeled after human beings, an underclass of robot servants who don't feel any kind of identity crisis, don't feel the push and pull between the worlds of man and machine and they... just kind of wander around.

Season 1 felt like the kind of show that would explore those ideas. Season 2 had very different priorities.

Vanderdeath
Oct 1, 2005

I will confess,
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth.





Belated but the best anime is Gankutsuou which is The Count of Monte Cristo in space and it owns bones. I think it's up on YouTube for free but it's only in 360p which is a shame since the show is gorgeous.

It's also directed and partially written by the guy behind The Second Renaissance (aka the best part of the Animatrix) for what it's worth.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



EL BROMANCE posted:

And this is a general chat thread that isn't strictly about the show, and people binge watch these things months/years after they air. We've had this conversation so many times now.

"Spoilers" as a concept also isn't something everyone thinks is important. Personally if the place I'm posting has enforced spoiler rules or is specifically for that kind of shrouded discussion, I'm fine abiding them, but these forums don't seem have that rule except for stuff that hasn't yet aired or is leaked. Spoilers seem like a natural risk for anyone who looks up their shows or participates in general online chats about shows in general. That's the spoilees risk and I don't think anyone, outside of specific circumstances, has a special obligation to safeguard Those Who Waited. At worst, it is discourteous.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




This conversation was started by someone asking 'is it worth watching Westworld S2?' and we have a general unwritten rule of keeping quiet about past shows in the chat thread when we know someone's in the process of catching up.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Since it's the new year, I'm down for revisiting spoiler rules for this thread if people want to start dropping opinions on how we should handle them (should there be a limit of time before you can freely discuss a show? does it matter if it's a year old or five years old? etc). Obviously things currently airing or very new should always be spoiled, or discussion taken to their general thread if one exists. But it's kind of a weird nebulous thing atm for anything that's been out for a while.

Should we say it's okay to discuss things unless it's been made clear someone is freshly about to watch it, in which case we begin to spoil things? Kinda like how (random example) the Witcher Wild Hunt thread works. If you try to read the whole drat thing you're going to get spoiled. But if you come in new and mention you're doing your first run, everyone starts spoiling important things again so the new person can have a fresh experience and share that experience with the thread.

e:

Vanderdeath posted:

Belated but the best anime is Gankutsuou which is The Count of Monte Cristo in space and it owns bones. I think it's up on YouTube for free but it's only in 360p which is a shame since the show is gorgeous.

It's also directed and partially written by the guy behind The Second Renaissance (aka the best part of the Animatrix) for what it's worth.

Yeah that show owns and is visually interesting af.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to ask people to discuss a show and then have no details about the show revealed. If your definition of spoilers is anything that would ruin a cool reveal from a show, then most trailers do that. If your definition of a spoiler is revealing the end-game of a season, then I don't think that anything that's been discussed here spoils the season in any significant way, at least not without the context of knowing why certain plot elements are relevant—which you'd only know if you'd seen the show.

I'd say my thoughts are that you shouldn't talk about The Big Reveal of any show in explicit terms, but generally discussing the events of the season a year after it came out is fair game.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



I like the once it's aired it's fair game rule, I think CDs eternal spoiler policy is dumb as poo poo, but also I'd like people to use some basic courtesy if a poster is specifically asking for recommendations on poo poo they haven't seen. The Honor System, you see.

One of the few ways you can directly negatively affect a person through posting is by being my posts. Another is spoilers, you can really ruin some poo poo for people and why lessen a person's joy when so much is already misery.

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


Oven Wrangler

Once it's aired it should be fair game. If I am trying to avoid spoilers for something I just skip over the post as soon as I realize what is being discussed. Knowing a plot point shouldn't discourage someone from watching a show, I know the plots of my favorite movies and TV shows and that doesn't ruin them on rewatch.

e:. Of course I am only speaking from my perspective, if you want to prevent people from trolling with spoilers then I see that leading to rules. I think people in general put too much emphasis on going into stories completely blind, but I also get the general idea of trying be surprised so if rules are necessary then so be it.

ONE YEAR LATER fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jan 13, 2020

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, for me personally I'd say a show currently airing or that recently finished airing shouldn't be spoiled, if only because maybe someone doesn't want to enter the general thread for that show b/c it is probably a spoiler minefield, or it may not have a general thread. But after a show has been out for a while, it should be safe to discuss fairly openly. Then use the honour system for when a person who has clearly not seen it is either asking for a recommendation, or mentioning that they've just started said show.

With this being the general chat thread I feel like it should be relatively safe from spoilers, if only to function as a space for people who want to be posting in TVIV, but may be avoiding general threads 'til they're caught up. But it shouldn't be completely devoid of real discussion of stuff, either.

idk i'm high af fam.

Basically just be courteous is my rule of thumb. But if enough people want to enforce some actual rules in the Couch Chat threads I am 100% down to sort that stuff out with all of you fine folks, and muscles.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Gah, no no rules

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89

Grimey Drawer

zoux posted:

Gah, no no rules

drat right

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLMBLuGJTsA

Lol I can't believe this is still happening.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




What if we avoid show threads because they're all trash?

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


New Penny Dreadful trailer is basically just Carnivale but with more divas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi2h1Zfr7fs

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



I love the rules as written in the rules thread. It's a matter of courtesy. If you're a Courteous Good poster, you will thoughtfully invoke spoilers based on context. Chaotic Courteous, "if it's aired it's faired!" Chaotic Discourteous is buying spoiler banner ads and PMing people spoilers. There's 3x3 grid of spoiler morality here and I think True Neutral is the approach for the rules. Individual thread cultures and enforcement seems sensible enough.

As for on the Couch, I don't think couches get rules, that's not a couch, it's a theatre! Sometimes your friends are jerkass spoilers, sometimes they are cryptics who won't even tell you why a show is worth watching out of fear of spoiling.

Croatoan
Jun 24, 2005

I am inevitable.
ROBBLE GROBBLE


Rarity posted:

This conversation was started by someone asking 'is it worth watching Westworld S2?' and we have a general unwritten rule of keeping quiet about past shows in the chat thread when we know someone's in the process of catching up.

That's kinda what I was thinking. Now going into the second season I already know that the robot folk gain some sort of freedom. I just thought that's a bit excessive but it's not a super big deal. Also CD's eternal spoiler rule is effing stupid imo

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Open Source Idiom posted:

New Penny Dreadful trailer is basically just Carnivale but with more divas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi2h1Zfr7fs

which is exactly why i've been hype about this since it was announced forever ago

also my bae laura marling getting a song licensed for dat trailer awwww yissssssss

e: also is dormer playing two characters?? why am i being #blessed so in 2020???

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


Khanstant posted:

I love the rules as written in the rules thread. It's a matter of courtesy. If you're a Courteous Good poster, you will thoughtfully invoke spoilers based on context. Chaotic Courteous, "if it's aired it's faired!" Chaotic Discourteous is buying spoiler banner ads and PMing people spoilers. There's 3x3 grid of spoiler morality here and I think True Neutral is the approach for the rules. Individual thread cultures and enforcement seems sensible enough.

As for on the Couch, I don't think couches get rules, that's not a couch, it's a theatre! Sometimes your friends are jerkass spoilers, sometimes they are cryptics who won't even tell you why a show is worth watching out of fear of spoiling.

Are you loving drunk on ethics farts?

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


CD isn't under eternal spoiler rules, what

If a thread isn't about a specific movie, you always tag them just out of courtesy, but in movie-specific threads everything's fair game after the first two weekends of theatrical release

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



feedmyleg posted:

the hell did you do when you stayed home sick from school

Got through an entire season of Madden in one day while listening to Ed, Lisa, and Dre.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jan 13, 2020

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



Rocksicles posted:

Are you loving drunk on ethics farts?

No but it's D&D night so I'm in the mindset

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precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town




I don't care about getting spoiled myself but a lot of people do and typing (spoiler) (/spoiler) is a ridiculously small ask, why not just do it

Like man y'all got some real issues with empathy

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