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Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Speaking of Lupin, have they said anything about a sixth (or seventh if you count A Woman Called Fujiko Mine) anime yet? I know thereís usually a couple years between seasons at least.

Or if not, has another movie been announced at least?

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Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Darth TNT posted:

So Disenchantment Season 3ish...

I haven't quite finished. 2 episodes to go. But I think this is the last season I will watch.
I found season 1 to be uneven, but mostly salvaged by a pretty great last 3 episodes.
Then season 2 hit the reset button, meandered around and had a pretty good last 3 episodes. Enough where I felt like I wanted to watch season3 at least. Though I barely remember what was in season 2. Probably not a good sign.

And now 3. This really feels like a show that has no idea what it wants to be. A fun fantasy romp? A serious story driven piece? Simpsons?
Worst thing, there's a lot less Luci. On the one hand great, because you don't get the Bender effect where a popular character causes everything to revolve around him/her/it, on the other I really like Luci and I miss his sarcasm. And without him there's no one pointing out Elfo is an idiot.
The king was always a little annoying, but his subplot drags and drags and he's mighty annoying.
Not Ralph was also annoying and is unceremonially dumped by the wayside after running the show the first episodes. It just feels so weird like the show doesn't want to commit.
The whole side tangent with the mermaid was simultaneously interesting, but also didn't really do anything lasting making it a waste of time.
I feel like every part of the story is this coin which just keeps flipping between its good and bad sides.
A shame, because I do like Bean and some of the other characters a lot. I do enjoy seeing how some of the characters get a new leash on life. Like Oona who I hated in season 1 but is actually pretty cool.

I'll finish it, but I do wonder if they can salvage this like they did the last seasons. I don't have a lot of hope though.

I did a big Groening retrospective where I watched all of Golden Age Simpsons and all of Futurama. Then i tried to watch Disenchantment and bounced off super hard. I looked up on AV Club what the highest rated episode were and tried watching those, but even they only match up to mid-tier Futurama with characters I like less.

I only know one person who actually likes this show, and is a big fan of the worldbuilding and character development. But I just don't see it and am not interested.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

There's only one prescription for Nazism and it's 76mm HVAP





Ultra Carp

Having watched most of Season 1, I'm definitely in the camp that Disenchantment is mostly held back by the fact that it doesn't know what it wants to be, and there's not enough humor or plot to make it compelling enough to continue watching. Big ol' swing and a miss.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

Pink Panther has something for your Inspector Cloussy


Iíve seen all of Disenchantment so far and while I really do like the characters, especially the main trio, it doesnít reach the heights of Futurama for me.

Itís weird that it keeps trying to take these dramatic turns, and the mermaid gay romance subplot being relegated to being a dream then never revisited disappointed me.

But there are often really good gags that keep me watching. Iíll watch the next season when they drop.

dennyk
Jan 2, 2005

Cheese-Buyer's Remorse


Yeah, Disenchantment's biggest issue is that it keeps halfheartedly waffling between being an absurd episodic comedy like Futurama and being a more serialized dramedy without being willing to commit to either, and as a result it just ends up being a muddled mess and completely fails to realise its potential. It really is a shame, as I think the concept could really work well by going in either of those directions, if only they would just loving pick one.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

Pink Panther has something for your Inspector Cloussy


My other problem with Disenchantment is despite the big voice cast, despite all the recurring characters, the world feels so empty for some reason. It doesnít feel brimming with life like Springfield or Futuramaís New York. I keep thinking Disenchantment has like 7 characters tops before I remember all the minor characters whoíve appeared here or there. I have no idea why Dreamland feels like a much lonelier place. Maybe because Bean is meant to be kinda isolated and lonely, which i guess makes sense as sheís a royal


Some of the best episodes have been where they go to Steamland, because thatís a place that feels like it has citizenry

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Hedrigall posted:

My other problem with Disenchantment is despite the big voice cast, despite all the recurring characters, the world feels so empty for some reason.

You say it has a big voice cast, but from what I've seen of it, most of the women appear to be voiced by Tress MacNeill, and the men are either Maurice LaMarche or John DiMaggio.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005


Buglord

The complaints that everyone settled on in the disenchantment thread is that everyone is just interchangeably bender. Like the obvious on paper setup is a confused young women in her early 20s torn between responsibility and freedom with a devil on one shoulder and an angel (elf) on the other, but for some reason they just decided every single character is a bitter drunk rear end in a top hat in random scenes, like no matter what personality anyone has they will just be bender sometimes and anyone could have anyone else's lines at any time.

The other big complaint is how scattered the writing is and the repeated problem of someone doing something, leaving then immediately going back to where they were. Like bean going to the freak show, rescuing all the 'freaks', leaving to fight some robots, going back to the freak show, freeing another person, then going back to the robots to fight them more, like they put the show in the wrong order somehow and half the runtime is patching them leaving places and going back. Like bean leaving steamland, then immediately going back to steamland for more scenes. Or like how there are three totally separate scenes where someone is discovered to be murdered and it's not like it's a joke, they just seem to have written it multiple times then forgot. Like each episode author had the outline of a script but isn't told what part their episode is set in so they have to redo random plotpoints then undo them so everything can happen ten times.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

It's extremely odd and a problem I haven't seen in any other show. I don't know how it happened.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



From what I heard, Groening doesn't have the same kind of editorial oversight for Disenchantment that he had with Futurama and moreso with The Simpsons, and the muddled characterization and tonal issue could be due to having no one questioning the decisions.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005


Buglord

Pick posted:

It's extremely odd and a problem I haven't seen in any other show. I don't know how it happened.

Yeah, it's so strange. It's like every time any story thread closes they have someone that thinks of one more situation or joke they forgot to include so everyone has to run back to where they were for one beat then return again to how it was.

Like oona quits being a queen to be a pirate, then IMMEDIATELY comes back and episode later to be queen more then IMMEDIATELY leaves an episode later to be a pirate. And there is no story function like she doubted her decision and then got stronger resolve. It's just like they put the scenes in the wrong order and needed to throw something in showing her returning and leaving.

And it's not just a one time thing, it happens with nearly everything. They end the gun plot then make a new gun plot identical to it like two times in like 4 episodes. They kill percival then resolve that then have like two other scenes they discover he died (and make it a gun plot). it's like every episode is written by someone locked in a room with an outline of the season and told to write episode seven but that they can't talk to any other episode writer to know what has or hasn't happened in the plot yet.

It's such a weird problem for a show to have and the more you think about it the more you notice it happening, everything happens, is undone, then immediately happens again.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013


Ccs posted:

I did a big Groening retrospective where I watched all of Golden Age Simpsons and all of Futurama. Then i tried to watch Disenchantment and bounced off super hard. I looked up on AV Club what the highest rated episode were and tried watching those, but even they only match up to mid-tier Futurama with characters I like less.

I only know one person who actually likes this show, and is a big fan of the worldbuilding and character development. But I just don't see it and am not interested.
I don't think the worldbuilding is all that great? Honestly it's a fantasy world that exists to have whatever is needed in the story. I think some people are confusing world building with foreshadowing. Like how there's a zeppelin in the background in the earlier episodes which we learn in Season2 is from Steamland.


Hedrigall posted:

My other problem with Disenchantment is despite the big voice cast, despite all the recurring characters, the world feels so empty for some reason. It doesnít feel brimming with life like Springfield or Futuramaís New York. I keep thinking Disenchantment has like 7 characters tops before I remember all the minor characters whoíve appeared here or there. I have no idea why Dreamland feels like a much lonelier place. Maybe because Bean is meant to be kinda isolated and lonely, which i guess makes sense as sheís a royal


Some of the best episodes have been where they go to Steamland, because thatís a place that feels like it has citizenry

That's another thing that really sticks out to me as well. When we started in Dreamland it seemed like a pretty crowded place. But ever since we've been switching different locales Dreamland always feels positively barren. Maybe that's also a function of most things happening in the palace where the normal people aren't allowed to go. Dreamland also has a more muted color pallet and less background details than Steamland or Merkimers place, which probably also doesn't help. But yeah, when we return to dreamland for the umpteenth time I always feel a little sad that we left the more interesting locale and are back with mad kind Zog.


Owlofcreamcheese posted:

The complaints that everyone settled on in the disenchantment thread is that everyone is just interchangeably bender. Like the obvious on paper setup is a confused young women in her early 20s torn between responsibility and freedom with a devil on one shoulder and an angel (elf) on the other, but for some reason they just decided every single character is a bitter drunk rear end in a top hat in random scenes, like no matter what personality anyone has they will just be bender sometimes and anyone could have anyone else's lines at any time.

The other big complaint is how scattered the writing is and the repeated problem of someone doing something, leaving then immediately going back to where they were. Like bean going to the freak show, rescuing all the 'freaks', leaving to fight some robots, going back to the freak show, freeing another person, then going back to the robots to fight them more, like they put the show in the wrong order somehow and half the runtime is patching them leaving places and going back. Like bean leaving steamland, then immediately going back to steamland for more scenes. Or like how there are three totally separate scenes where someone is discovered to be murdered and it's not like it's a joke, they just seem to have written it multiple times then forgot. Like each episode author had the outline of a script but isn't told what part their episode is set in so they have to redo random plotpoints then undo them so everything can happen ten times.
It doesn't help that the major part of the comedy apparently comes from drugs and booze. It's not my favorite part of the jokes. I don't mind drunk humor, but I don't need the whole cast to be bitter drunk homers.

I didn't realize we have a separate thread for this.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

Pink Panther has something for your Inspector Cloussy


I just had a shocking realisation














Cats Donít Dance is a prequel to Bojack Horseman

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


"Look at you there with the long long face"

*Bojak Horseman drinks a bunch and falls down*

Srice
Sep 11, 2011



Larryb posted:

Speaking of Lupin, have they said anything about a sixth (or seventh if you count A Woman Called Fujiko Mine) anime yet? I know thereís usually a couple years between seasons at least.

Or if not, has another movie been announced at least?

They haven't announced any new projects as far as I'm aware of, though 2019 was a pretty wild time for Lupin anyways since they put out 4 movies in the same year so I can understand the radio silence.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005


Buglord

Darth TNT posted:


It doesn't help that the major part of the comedy apparently comes from drugs and booze. It's not my favorite part of the jokes. I don't mind drunk humor, but I don't need the whole cast to be bitter drunk homers.

I didn't realize we have a separate thread for this.

Is there a word for "reverse flanderization" where as a show goes on every single character displays less and less character traits?

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

Pink Panther has something for your Inspector Cloussy


What do you call a character development like Stewie Griffin, who at the start was an evil genius Rex Harrison baby who wanted to kill his mother, but by now has turned into a literal gay baby slut

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



"Seth McFarlane can't write characters"

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I'm pretty sure Seth McFarlane hasn't been doing much of the writing for FG for a while.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011



Ultra Carp

Cartoon Saloon, of Song of the Sea/Secret of Kells/Wolfwalkers gam fame are doing a 13 episode hand drawn series for Apple TV


quote:

“We have a big series for Apple TV that’s not really announced,” Moore and Stewart told Deadline. “But it’s epic because it’s feature-quality, hand-drawn animation across 12 half-hours, and then a big, hour-long special at the end, which is going to take a lot of work.”

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013


I finished Disenchantment. The ending was pretty good, but it felt disconnected from everything that came before. This season felt like a waste of time.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Ghost Leviathan posted:

I'm pretty sure Seth McFarlane hasn't been doing much of the writing for FG for a while.

He still writes a lot for it, his name on the checks he's cashing

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now



https://twitter.com/JamaalBradley/status/1364253481889005570?s=09

This looks nice. Kind of reminds me of Into the Spiderverse

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005


Buglord

Darth TNT posted:

I finished Disenchantment. The ending was pretty good, but it felt disconnected from everything that came before. This season felt like a waste of time.

No man, an army was approaching with a trail of smoke marking their progress, so dreamland had to raise their own army, so they had to go get support from a neighboring country. then the army disbanded because they saw an elf smacking it's butt, then the invading army was just a guy cooking green sausages who had been killed earlier in the series? But THEN a different army invaded anyway, and they fought it with an army.

It's seriously one of the worst examples of the stuff I was saying about the writing. everything happens like four times before it sticks, there is an invading army then it resolves abruptly then a different invading army comes one episode later. nothing can ever just happen, it has to happen then unhappen then happen twice more.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Reading this stuff about Disenchantment without having seen any of it makes it sound like some kind of inscrutable artsy David Lynch sort of thing where time and causality has no meaning and you're not really supposed to "get" it.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005


Buglord

Data Graham posted:

Reading this stuff about Disenchantment without having seen any of it makes it sound like some kind of inscrutable artsy David Lynch sort of thing where time and causality has no meaning and you're not really supposed to "get" it.

I wish.

I feel like there is 30 separate ways that show could be made good. Like if Futurama had a thing where they were waiting for an army to come then something stupid came as a gag then right after a real army attacked independently that would seem fine. The show is funny and it's easy to separate joke events from real plot.

Disenchantment is so self serious and up it's own butt about lore. So like the stupid side army can't just be a dumb 5 second gag, it needs to be a very important character with a subplot that takes up 15 minutes ad delivers the exact same information another character already delivered then just returns the plot exactly to where it was with an advancing army about to attack.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Feels like Matt Groening has the George Lucas problem where their wild success with their signature project pretty much ruined them for everything else, since they haven't been doing anything else for years and no one will tell them no.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013


Owlofcreamcheese posted:

No man, an army was approaching with a trail of smoke marking their progress, so dreamland had to raise their own army, so they had to go get support from a neighboring country. then the army disbanded because they saw an elf smacking it's butt, then the invading army was just a guy cooking green sausages who had been killed earlier in the series? But THEN a different army invaded anyway, and they fought it with an army.

It's seriously one of the worst examples of the stuff I was saying about the writing. everything happens like four times before it sticks, there is an invading army then it resolves abruptly then a different invading army comes one episode later. nothing can ever just happen, it has to happen then unhappen then happen twice more.

You mixed up the order. They went to get the army and weapons well before the green smoke because there was a threat.
Then green smoke came and they didnít really do anything about that except panic and depose Zog.

Oh man, that only made your summary worse. yep. Itís a complete and total mess. What about that whole steam land subplot which also hasnít gone anywhere.

Iím manly enough to admit that I was touched when Bean said goodbye to Zog, accepting his dementia while acknowledging his worth as a parent.....and then they strapped him into the back of a cart with a funny driver.
I really really hate the Zog subplot. It has a few good moments, but the ďresolutionĒ is poo poo and heís incredibly annoying while it accomplishes nothing.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Hmm all this makes me feel very validated in not watching anymore. It's too bad, Futurama kept up a strong showing throughout all 7 seasons. I had hoped Disenchantment would either get better or have a few strong seasons.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


paradoxGentleman posted:

https://twitter.com/JamaalBradley/status/1364253481889005570?s=09

This looks nice. Kind of reminds me of Into the Spiderverse

Loving what I see here. Hope the full thing ends up being good.

Also why is it that black characters so often specifically get electricity powers lol. I mean electricity powers are always cool as hell and fun to watch in animation, but what is that about

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way


paradoxGentleman posted:

https://twitter.com/JamaalBradley/status/1364253481889005570?s=09

This looks nice. Kind of reminds me of Into the Spiderverse

Pete Ramsey, one of the ITSV's directors, is a producer on this, so I'm excited.

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos


Robindaybird posted:

"Seth McFarlane can't write characters"

Orville is very good. Qualifying that it isn't animation and that while it has good characters they are generally sufficiently broad to serve as plot devices rather than people. Which works great for high production value TNG fanfiction.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

Pink Panther has something for your Inspector Cloussy


VinylonUnderground posted:

Orville is very good. Qualifying that it isn't animation and that while it has good characters they are generally sufficiently broad to serve as plot devices rather than people. Which works great for high production value TNG fanfiction.

I really love The Orville. Itís bizarre that a spoof series by the creator of Family Guy is the best Star Trek tv series since Deep Space 9.

You can tell he really wanted to make an earnest TNG homage but because heís the funny cartoon guy there were expectations on it being a comedy so he half heartedly puts some gags in each episode. But the show is still like 90% earnest TNG homage

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007





Macaluso posted:

Loving what I see here. Hope the full thing ends up being good.

Also why is it that black characters so often specifically get electricity powers lol. I mean electricity powers are always cool as hell and fun to watch in animation, but what is that about

Storm (all weather but still), Static, Black Lightning, Miles Morales and now this woman (don't know her name).

... Didn't notice until now, really.

At least she's not turning into an animal or a bluish green blob?

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

Pink Panther has something for your Inspector Cloussy


ThermoPhysical posted:

Storm (all weather but still), Static, Black Lightning, Miles Morales and now this woman (don't know her name).

... Didn't notice until now, really.

At least she's not turning into an animal or a bluish green blob?

And Electro from Amazing Spider-Man 2

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

Pink Panther has something for your Inspector Cloussy


Is this like how someone noticed the captain of the palace guard is often the only black person in an all white fantasy kingdom in so many media properties

mycot
Oct 23, 2014


Hell Gem

Macaluso posted:

Loving what I see here. Hope the full thing ends up being good.

Also why is it that black characters so often specifically get electricity powers lol. I mean electricity powers are always cool as hell and fun to watch in animation, but what is that about

I remember someone going into this and the conclusion was that there are basically two characters who are the source for this (Black Lightning and Storm) and most of the early examples are ripoffs of those two (e.g. Black Vulcan). Then I guess it spiraled out of control.

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of




Macaluso posted:

Also why is it that black characters so often specifically get electricity powers lol. I mean electricity powers are always cool as hell and fun to watch in animation, but what is that about


(panel is from Irredeemable, I think)

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/avatar-last-airbender-expanded-universe-nickelodeon

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GlassEye-Boy
Jul 12, 2001


Looking forward to the Invincible cartoon. Remember reading the comics back in the day and it was quote good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bfAVpuko5o

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