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Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Yay





IShallRiseAgain posted:

The woman with white hair is literally based off a character from one of the shows that helped define the harem anime genre. (Ryoko from Tench Muyo for those curious.)

Pick posted:

Yikes

Anyway, I found it really crushing disappointment because I felt like it had been advertised as something that would be a spiritual successor to gravity falls.

Alright I hate harem animes as much as the next person with even semi-decent taste, but I will go to bat to at least try to defend Tenchi Muyo (and Ryoko).

See, despite being patient zero for the whole "harem anime" genre, the original Tenchi Muyo was not itself trying to be a harem anime (because they didn't exist yet), but rather it was a fun sci-fi action comedy with a bunch of female characters with diverse personalities. Sure, those personalities may seem simple and cliche (proper princess, goofy mad scientist, the dumb one), but it was primarily a comedy so those simple personalities worked with the premise. Also, each of them had a little more depth then it at first might appear which is explored in a few episodes. It's not a bad show, it just led to a lot of other shows copying it in worse ways. Like, it's not a perfect show, just way better than a lot of the dumber stuff it unfortunately inspired.

Oh, and Ryoko was (and still remains) a great character. She was a drunken, hedonistic, all powerful space pirate, and she was hilarious. I haven't seen Owl House yet, but having a character based on a Ryoko is a good idea because she's rad.

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Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

Frozen 2 is basically an anime too. Half of what happens is just kinda made up on the spot and vaguely assumed to be because of magic, and then someone gets all angsty, and there's some pretty good music

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

I hate to say this but I think that we need to find, and I know this won't be easy, people who are into animation have not seen anime. We got to find them. Like an endangered species. And then we need to put them in some of these animator habitats so that they can make the artistic ecosystem more robust, with fewer blushing magic teenagers

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

give in to the anime

let it suffuse your self

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

Honestly, that's not really meant to rag on anime as such, there's just way too much of this crap right now. Stop green-lighting anything that's a derivation of an anime the creator first conceived in high school or loving Hazbo Hotel is going to get licensed.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Pick posted:

I hate to say this but I think that we need to find, and I know this won't be easy, people who are into animation have not seen anime. We got to find them. Like an endangered species. And then we need to put them in some of these animator habitats so that they can make the artistic ecosystem more robust, with fewer blushing magic teenagers

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but blushing magic teenagers have been popular in the west since before anime. It's just they were confined to bad YA novels and comic books that popular culture could ignore.

The only way back would be to make the teen girl demographic unmarketable, but that'd involve putting Sabrina the Teenage Witch back into the bottle.

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Mar 23, 2020

Neon Noodle
Nov 11, 2016

there's nothing wrong here in montana

Pick posted:

I hate to say this but I think that we need to find, and I know this won't be easy, people who are into animation have not seen anime. We got to find them. Like an endangered species. And then we need to put them in some of these animator habitats so that they can make the artistic ecosystem more robust, with fewer blushing magic teenagers
I appreciate your support

doomrider7
Nov 29, 2018

Smoking Chicken of the Sea

Pick posted:

Honestly, that's not really meant to rag on anime as such, there's just way too much of this crap right now. Stop green-lighting anything that's a derivation of an anime the creator first conceived in high school or loving Hazbo Hotel is going to get licensed.

Not seen it, but what's wrong with Hazbin Hotel?

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

Schwarzwald posted:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but blushing magic teenagers have been popular in the west since before anime. It's just they were confined to bad YA novels and comic books that popular culture could ignore.

The only way back would be to make the teen girl demographic unmarketable, but that'd involve putting Sabrina the Teenage Witch back into the bottle.

salem

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?



Pick posted:

I hate to say this but I think that we need to find, and I know this won't be easy, people who are into animation have not seen anime. We got to find them. Like an endangered species. And then we need to put them in some of these animator habitats so that they can make the artistic ecosystem more robust, with fewer blushing magic teenagers

There is a lot of really good animation from Japan, so you can't really call yourself a fan of animation if you aren't willing to give anime a shot. I think at this point, everything is going to be at least a little bit indirectly inspired by anime.

Hazbo Hotel's problems aren't because of anime, its because of people from tumblr fandom communities trying to become writers.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



There's an insane amount of japanese animation influence in tons of cartoon openings from the 80s and 90s.

When they were told "spend $2 mil on an opening that'll really wow them" the didn't go to Don Bluth.

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

IShallRiseAgain posted:

There is a lot of really good animation from Japan, so you can't really call yourself a fan of animation if you aren't willing to give anime a shot. I think at this point, everything is going to be at least a little bit indirectly inspired by anime.

Hazbo Hotel's problems aren't because of anime, its because of people from tumblr fandom communities trying to become writers.

I'm not saying don't have anyone inspired by anime. It's too late for that. But we need at least a few people who, when anime tropes pop up, go "what the gently caress are you doing"

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

unnecessarily confusing magic system in a world with a basic and cool premise that becomes more and more poorly realized . hmm... yes.... good. all the characters can have traits instead of personalities. yes. getting there... elf school

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

Anyway, all that aside, I finally watched Onward and it is... thin.

Also it's pretty incredible for a final fight with a dragon to feel really small and boring.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



doomrider7 posted:

Not seen it, but what's wrong with Hazbin Hotel?

It honestly is tailor made for people whose aesthetics and humor has stagnated when Invader Zim originally aired - the designs are incredibly busy or have just one-too-many-elements. The fact a small indie group managed to produce a unique, watchable pilot is amazing, it's questionable given how long the pilot took if they can actually sustain a full series.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

I recommend every single person watch the Hazbin Hotel episode thing. The reason I recommend this to you is so that you can see what happens when an artist has full creative control.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



And there's some drama about the creator plagiarizing and/or otherwise stealing credit but it's difficult to say how much is genuine and how much it's the tumblr tall poppy syndrome kicking in.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

Robindaybird posted:

And there's some drama about the creator plagiarizing and/or otherwise stealing credit but it's difficult to say how much is genuine and how much it's the tumblr tall poppy syndrome kicking in.

If whatever Hazbin Hotel is, is also stolen, then that might be an example of why we have laws, much like the rest of it serves to illustrate why we have editors and business suits who say "do not do "

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I'm p sure the only people interested in becoming animators who aren't into anime are boomer brained millennial nazis who aspire to be clones of John K

Also, since when the hell is 'characters with basic personality traits instead of personalities' something exclusive to anime

hallelujah
Jan 26, 2020

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


i used to want to be an animator, but then i settled for screaming until i die

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?



hallelujah posted:

i used to want to be an animator, but then i settled for screaming until i die

So you became a radio talk show host?

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

hallelujah posted:

i used to want to be an animator, but then i settled for screaming until i die

most animators do both

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I mean it's either that or the Newgrounds flash cartoon people, but I think Adult Swim already went through that phase.

And the alternative that's just coming into fashion is full blown furries.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

synthesis is better than just aping the worst of tired genres

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNl2v-ir7zg

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004



Wife and I watched Onward tonight and thought it was really good. Should especially be a must see film for anyone who grew up with Dungeons & Dragons, especially if you have nerdy parents who got you into it and played with you.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



TMS animated the best episodes of your favorite childhood cartoons.

Yes, even the one you're about to bring up.

mycot
Oct 23, 2014


Hell Gem

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I'm p sure the only people interested in becoming animators who aren't into anime are boomer brained millennial nazis who aspire to be clones of John K

Also, since when the hell is 'characters with basic personality traits instead of personalities' something exclusive to anime

It says something when 80% of the time internet people mysteriously have a lot of complaints about modern creative work (especially vague ones like too anime or too Tumblr) the creative team involves women, gays, or both. It's almost as if there's a motivation to be against certain influences being too prominent!

mycot fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Mar 24, 2020

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

it is absolutely not misogynistic to say owl house sucks, which it does

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


owl house isn't great but, frankly, anime influence isn't really the problem with it. like, anime tropes aren't inherently a bad thing; on the other end of the spectrum, you have castlevania, seis manos, and avatar: TLA, which are all really good shows and are all anime as gently caress.

honestly? i think the current crop of animators is totally fine. one particular show being a misfire doesn't mean the sky is falling. hell, that same crew might end up doing (or have already done) really good work on other stuff.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

read what I wrote. most animators are going to have been into anime, which is fine. but you need a sprinkling of those who haven't been exposed to/absorbed distinct, repeated failings of its most influential properties, so they can identify where they form distinctive and highly recognizable flaws in the endproduct, such as making everything about stock anime tweens with magic powers

I was also being obviously hyperbolic where my real complaint was clearly "owl house is derivative, not funny, and a huge disappointment" and is also a galling step down from Gravity Falls, which it was branded the successor of, which it just egregiously is not, but very deceptively pretends it is for a couple minutes, down to including Bill Cipher only Cubone and much much much much less funny

owl house marketing:





owl house reality:



Pick fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Mar 24, 2020

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016



Honestly it feels like half of Disney TV Animation's recent output has been trying to be a successor to Gravity Falls in one way or another. the Ducktales reboot, Amphibia, The Owl House, even Billy Dilley and Big City Greens (albeit in different ways than the rest)

seriously most of the shows I listed have a character that could be considered the show's answer to "Grunkle Stan"

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004


Anime took everything...

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

I could hear the roots of loneliness creeping through me when the world was hushed at four o'clock in the morning






speaking of anime, i binged through Tatami Galaxy and then immediately watched Night is Short, Walk on Girl. That was a pretty good afternoon spent! Some very inventive storytelling, and the animation is beautiful. That last bit of Night is Short where the girl says the cold spread by the old man which shut the whole city down is a kind of kindness (?) that is appreciated by everyone... works in the magic realist concept of the show but sureeeeee aged badly in March 2020

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Digamma-F-Wau posted:

Honestly it feels like half of Disney TV Animation's recent output has been trying to be a successor to Gravity Falls in one way or another. the Ducktales reboot, Amphibia, The Owl House, even Billy Dilley and Big City Greens (albeit in different ways than the rest)

seriously most of the shows I listed have a character that could be considered the show's answer to "Grunkle Stan"

Scrooge McDuck kind of already was, though. If anything he was probably an inspiration for Grunkle Stan, especially with specifically being a great-uncle.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

I feel like Hazbin is basically this decade's equivalent of Rob Liefield. It goes all-in on thinking that darkness and sex makes things "mature", and takes the prevailing aesthetic of the day to a ridiculous extreme.

It's just a very different aesthetic from bulging pecs, many pockets, and big guns.

Pyrotoad
Oct 24, 2010




Illegal Hen

Hazbin Hotel is like watching all the edgiest OCs I ever made when I was 13-15 running around being SUPER COOL OMG, and I can't help but love it for that.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

I keep thinking you people are talking about habbo hotel

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Yay





Man, I'm setting myself up to be judged here, but I actually liked Hazbin Hotel. Keep in mind I A) Know basically nothing about the creator or the production history or any of the drama related to that and B) Am the kind of person who just enjoys edgy adult cartoon comedies in general (Bring back Aqua Teen Hunger force!). It came up on my youtube recommend list, I watched it, had a few laughs and liked the songs. Not the best thing I've ever seen, but not anywhere near the worst, and if they make more I'd watch it. The animation style and designs would (obviously) need to be GREATLY simplified though if they do end up get picked up by any sort of network, my wrist hurt just looking at some of those characters.

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dirksteadfast
Oct 10, 2010


Hazbin Hotel shows promise in a lot of ways, but it definitely needs some restraint and subtlety. There were a lot of people trying to stifle criticism of the edginess by saying ďitís in hell, theyíre supposed to be bad peopleĒ but one of the main characters is a porn star named after drugs. Iím not offended by that, I just donít know what itís trying to say. There are plenty of decisions that were made just because they could, not because it really meant anything.

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