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Stink Billyums
Jul 7, 2006
MAGNUM

I've been watching Maverick and Have Gun Will Travel recently and they're both quite good.

Stink Billyums fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 15, 2020

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happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup


Pillbug

Jack B Nimble posted:

Are we talking about this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzMFoNZeZm0

Worth pointing out that the author contends that Blazing Saddles destroys the "wholesome west" depicted in 50s and 60s tv, like Bounty Law from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood; he acknowledges that the films that came before Blazing Saadles often had more nuance.

That was a good watch. Though could you say the same with war movies?
It wasn't as severe but is there a war movie that was the first to point out that both sides suffered and not just stereotype bad vs good.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005


Buglord

sponges posted:

I’m curious as to how many people here have even seen those so called wholesome Westerns that they’re casually denigrating. Kinda sound like you’re just basing all these lazy sweeping generalizations on stereotypes the genre has suffered.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1D2ynASqe4

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007




Soiled Meat

happyhippy posted:

Though could you say the same with war movies?


I don't think I'm qualified to give a great answer about this, I don't have some deep knowledge of war movie tropes to be deconstructed. But thinking about it for a second I guess my response would be:
 
1) I'm not sure we (by which I mean, Americans including myself) are sufficiently disillusioned with war for the same thing to have occurred.
 
2A) Saving Private Ryan? It's not a satire but there's certainly a before and after for War Movies though I did recently re-watch Dr. Strange Love and was struck by how "modern", ie: Post SPR, the small infantry battle was.
 
2B) Maybe in a world where everyone saw, believed, and internalized Netflix's adaptation of Catch-22? But that's not so  much a deconstruction of a genre as it is a condemnation of war itself?
 
Actually, no, if there’s some brilliant satire that sends up the War Picture I don’t know about it, and while that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, that does mean it hasn’t destroyed the genre to the extent that Blazing Saddles did.

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008



Owlofcreamcheese posted:

I feel like austin powers was that to bond. James bond is so stupid and so gross that the second austin powers came out doing everything as a joke james bond lost the ability to try and do any of it legitimately and not seem pathetic. Like cold war spy was a dying genre and already one people were sour one and austin powers jammed a final nail in where if they ever did any of the things they actually did in those movies ever again everyone would say "is this an austin power's joke?"

Spectre straight up uses a plot twist from Austin Powers (Austin/Bond and Dr. Evil/Blofeld as brothers).

Basebf555 posted:

Spectre: MI:6 is almost taken over by Spectre because they trusted some rear end in a top hat with the entire country's security, and Bond shows them that there will always be a role for a human being who can make the decision to pull a trigger(or not).

I might be wrong but I recall that in Spectre, Bond is never once referred to as a spy, only as an assassin.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005


Buglord

Chairman Capone posted:

Spectre straight up uses a plot twist from Austin Powers (Austin/Bond and Dr. Evil/Blofeld as brothers).

Like it's easy to think of austin powers as a really out there wacky parody but so much of it was near direct from actual james bond. Like mini-me just being so directly nick-nack, and all the terrible dad joke puns being straight up dialog from the real movies, and stupid elements like james bond becoming an alligator or japanese. Or the wint and kidd scenes where they are gay jokes and die from james bond wedgying a bomb into his butt (and the other from "flaming") or just like how absurdly awfully horny james bond is in those movies, where it's not even really changing standards make him problematic, but that he's a flat out rapist. Like there is so many elements of classic james bond movies you could never use again in a real movie because they got roasted so hard in 90s parodies.

got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

by Cyrano4747


War films had an early start on deconstruction

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0020629/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0015648/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0010307/

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.





It's mildly funny to me how Austin Powers looks so much like Harry Palmer but acts nothing like him. Looks nothing like Bond but acts a lot like him.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



People forget that Austin Powers is an homage to Our Man Flint.

Heavy_D
Feb 16, 2002

"rararararara" contains the meaning of everything, kept in simple rectangular structures

I liked to think that the Craig films were trying to give each story some kind of emotional dimension to Bond, when the established template for the character was basically to neither care about who he killed or slept with. So Casino Royale has a kind of tragic love story, which you can do because it's an origin story and he's not fully formed. Then Quantum lets him be driven by revenge instead. Skyfall is a bit woolier in that regard, there's some stuff about parents and parent figures, but it's not really developed. And Spectre...

Still it's consistent with the idea that you can't do straight Bond any more, that it needed some amount of reinvention to work.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



I think the problem is they are trying to do the same with the villains and really who gets excisted by the CEO of nestle or "slightly less rich elon musk"

Lobok
Jul 13, 2006

Say Watt?



I don't think Bond can't be Bond anymore because of Austin Powers. It wasn't the first time Bond had been parodied. Austin Powers lifts from and riffs on earlier Bond parodies as much as it does from Bond itself. The 007 franchise's biggest enemy is itself because it hasn't known what it wants to be for my entire lifetime. And even back when it did know it would veer into such wild excess that it was beyond parody.

One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007
no neckbeard, though.



Nap Ghost

Phanatic posted:

I'd thought that internet porn had killed the erotic thriller (Black Widow, Basic Instinct, Jade, etc) but then Fifty Shades came along and made half a billion dollars.

That might have been a fluke, though.

Fifty shades isn't really an erotic thriller though, its, uh, just erotic? Maybe an edgy romance? I guess if you deconstruct the film its about a young woman being stalked by a deranged billionaire sadist, but the film and books don't really present that as a negative.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

I could hear the roots of loneliness creeping through me when the world was hushed at four o'clock in the morning






https://twitter.com/TAGrimshaw/status/1217477842545643521?s=19

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible





MH Knights posted:

I really liked both of those movies as well. The television series Deadwood counts as a western right? What about Brisco County Jr.?

Brisco's nemesis, John Bly, was a criminal from the future, who was transported to the past with the aid of "The Orb", an "Unearthed Foreign Object" or UFO.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



new Wes Anderson? Oh cool these anamorphic shots will look great in the background while I do something else

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008




I heard some of Roy Rogers' radio show back when I used to listen to olde timey radio, Sunday nights on NPR. That's pretty loving goofy.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!




One More Fat Nerd posted:

Fifty shades isn't really an erotic thriller though, its, uh, just erotic? Maybe an edgy romance? I guess if you deconstruct the film its about a young woman being stalked by a deranged billionaire sadist, but the film and books don't really present that as a negative.

She's not being stalked by the billionaire sadist, she's in a toxic relationship with a billionaire sadist

She's being stalked by her old boss who was jealous of the millionaire sadist because they were orphans together and he wasn't the one adopted

One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007
no neckbeard, though.



Nap Ghost

Len posted:

She's not being stalked by the billionaire sadist, she's in a toxic relationship with a billionaire sadist

She's being stalked by her old boss who was jealous of the millionaire sadist because they were orphans together and he wasn't the one adopted

The boss stalking has got to be in the later films, cause i don't remember it and i've only seen the first one. I suppose that might?? Make the later films more like an erotic thriller?

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!




One More Fat Nerd posted:

The boss stalking has got to be in the later films, cause i don't remember it and i've only seen the first one. I suppose that might?? Make the later films more like an erotic thriller?

Oh yeah she ends up kidnapped by her old boss who has it out for Christian because he was the adopted kid instead

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012

SO EMBARRASSING



One More Fat Nerd posted:

The boss stalking has got to be in the later films, cause i don't remember it and i've only seen the first one. I suppose that might?? Make the later films more like an erotic thriller?

That was Fifty Shades Freed. Fifty Shades Darker is more like a thriller as well, with Anastasia having to struggle against Grey's ex. The thriller aspect of the first one is whether Anastasia can handle the BDSM lifestyle or whether she's endangering herself by getting in too deep. I haven't seen the movie or read the book, so I don't know whether that aspect is successful, though.

wizardofloneliness
Dec 30, 2008




I'm almost disappointed this is actually a reasonable length because the idea of a 5 hour long Wes Anderson film is weirdly hilarious to me. It would probably be a complete nightmare too, and that's coming from someone who likes him for the most part.

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008




Better have an intermission. If you make anything over 3.5 hours long you really need one.

got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

by Cyrano4747


Davros1 posted:

Brisco's nemesis, John Bly, was a criminal from the future, who was transported to the past with the aid of "The Orb", an "Unearthed Foreign Object" or UFO.

Repo Man shared universe?

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008



Lobok posted:

I don't think Bond can't be Bond anymore because of Austin Powers. It wasn't the first time Bond had been parodied. Austin Powers lifts from and riffs on earlier Bond parodies as much as it does from Bond itself. The 007 franchise's biggest enemy is itself because it hasn't known what it wants to be for my entire lifetime. And even back when it did know it would veer into such wild excess that it was beyond parody.

I remember after Quantum especially a lot of people were like "Craig is so serious, I just want him to do a full-on Connery-era type Bond." And then Spectre did just that and proved it wasn't as good as everyone thought it would be (after Skyfall had a bit of toe dipping in that direction - I still think Albert Finney's character was originally supposed to actually be Connery).

I think it's funny that Skyfall definitely seemed like it was borrowing a lot from the visual look and tone of the Nolan Batman films, and then Spectre was clearly borrowing wholesale from the MCU.

Len posted:

She's being stalked by her old boss who was jealous of the millionaire sadist because they were orphans together and he wasn't the one adopted

Speaking of Spectre borrowing from things....

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Spectre wouldn't be too bad if they clearly hadn't been flailing by around the halfway mark.

I still say they just need Bond to fight a Metal Gear.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Spectre has that really confusing part where all of a sudden a computer says that the bad guys were responsible for everything that happened in earlier movies because of DNA on a ring?

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Basebf555 posted:

The wholesome west is what we're talking about though. During that time the vast majority of Westerns were of that type, and stuff like The Searchers and The Wild Bunch were the exception. Nobody's saying there weren't exceptions or that Blazing Saddles was the first Western to ever take on the tropes of the traditional Western.

We should also point out that Blazing Saddles was one of the biggest, most popular films of the 70s and was also the second biggest Western of all time, only being beaten in ticket sales by Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Even if it wasn't the first film to skewer the tropes of the traditional Western it sure was the one that got the most eyeballs.

(Note that ticket sales back in the heyday of the classic Westerns were calculated differently, you pretty much bought entry to the cinema for a mix of serials and news reels and features rather than a ticket to a specific film. )

BaldDwarfOnPCP
Jun 26, 2019





got any sevens posted:

Repo Man shared universe?

Our universe has super villains with an orb

Simplex
Jun 29, 2003


Snowglobe of Doom posted:

We should also point out that Blazing Saddles was one of the biggest, most popular films of the 70s and was also the second biggest Western of all time, only being beaten in ticket sales by Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Even if it wasn't the first film to skewer the tropes of the traditional Western it sure was the one that got the most eyeballs.

(Note that ticket sales back in the heyday of the classic Westerns were calculated differently, you pretty much bought entry to the cinema for a mix of serials and news reels and features rather than a ticket to a specific film. )

The decline of the Hollywood westerns happened in the 50s and 60s, well before Blazing Saddles came out. The decline of westerns overall is because Italy pretty abruptly stopped making them, before Blazing Saddles came out.

There's a better argument to be made that Airplane! snuffed out the life of the 70s disaster porn movies, because those movies disappeared basically overnight.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009


The video we're talking around notes that the glut of the "Wholesome West" serials was during the 50s and 60s. All the kids who grew up watching the shitload of Western TV series were just the right age when Blazing Saddles came out and put a stake through the heart once and for all. It notes the beginnings of grim Westerns, specifically High Plains Drifter coming out the year before, but that Blazing Saddles really feels like the mark where everyone just gave up on trying to farm any nostalgia out of the genre and you saw the permanent switch to grittier Western movies.

I'd say for Bond the bigger hit came from the Bourne Identity. That showed people a lower key spy thriller with no gadgets that was really satisfying, along with a darker focus on assassins and gritty foreign policy in a post-9/11 world that was apparently really thirsty for it. That why you get less gadgets and more physical violence and guns in Casino Royale. But I don't think you can say Bond is dead, when Mission Impossible is very much the same bullshit and it's still going. People just didn't want a hovercraft chase through North Korea's minefield and a diamond space laser.

The MSJ
May 17, 2010



I just found out the movie Spies In Disguise actually has Will Smith referencing the meme from his infamous Youtube Rewind video. His character looks at an explosion and goes "Ah, that's hot, that's hot"

Also he's on Tik Tok these days. Some of these gets pretty.... eccentric?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itvxLYZZ2Hw

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



https://twitter.com/nancywyuen/status/1217569709945606144?s=20

Barudak
May 7, 2007



On one hand hooray and the other I assume the reason for cancelation was that theyre too focused on their Netflix deal

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




muscles like this! posted:

Spectre has that really confusing part where all of a sudden a computer says that the bad guys were responsible for everything that happened in earlier movies because of DNA on a ring?

If they're going to go all Metal Gear on us they should go all the way. I was thinking they were setting up a Solid Bond/Liquid Bond thing with Bloefeld, though I suppose they already did that in Skyfall.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




Dolittle's going to be the next hilarious cinematic disaster that doesn't involve CGI cat-people, though it'll probably be big in Korea. It's going to be fodder for essays as to how movie-producers can easily draw millions in funding yet at the same-time lack any sense of self-awareness or the ability to read the market. The fact that the movie is the second big-budget take on Dr Dolittle, when the 1967 attempt bombed, shows how little people care about history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynO_BPkA2uQ

Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Jan 16, 2020

u brexit ukip it
Oct 30, 2004


Exciting Lemon

Alan Smithee posted:

I think the problem is they are trying to do the same with the villains and really who gets excisted by the CEO of nestle or "slightly less rich elon musk"

I do want another Fast & Furious movie where barely-diguised Elon Musk is the villain, though. Henchmen driving ~electric~ cars

e: villain has his own underground tunnel network which is how he can move around undetected

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012


u brexit ukip it posted:

I do want another Fast & Furious movie where barely-diguised Elon Musk is the villain, though. Henchmen driving ~electric~ cars

The Doomsday Heist in GTA Online is pretty much this.

The MSJ
May 17, 2010



I wonder if Elon ever contacted Hasbro to put a Tesla in their Transformers movies. Soundwave in the new cartoon actually transforms into something resembling a Tesla truck. I don't know if he would ever accept his cars being Decepticons though.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Transformers has a pretty long tradition of using designs with or without permission, though the cartoon designs tend to be non-specific vehicles or plausibly deniable.

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