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Hungry
Jul 14, 2006



I enjoy a lot of stuff that isn't explicitly "we are scissoring off screen 24/7" but is still obviously lesbian coded. I hate that term, is there a better one?

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Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Da Vinci is definitely an aspect that varies from writer to writer, much like FGO in general, but that just means you get really annoying backslides. Like for example by the time Camelot rolls around the main story has shifted to totally treating her correctly, but then you get to Shinjuku and Higashide is having SHERLOCK HOLMES of all characters forgetting her pronouns.

E: to clarify the D'eon thing, I think it's weird and indeed bad to take a figure who is so unambiguously a transwoman we used to call being trans Deonism or something, and then changing that figure so you can treat them interchangeably with Astolfo.

And I say that despite liking Astolfo.

Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Feb 5, 2020

lunar detritus
May 6, 2009



Lipstick Apathy

RWBY got a trans character this season. Sadly it's a background character that speaks I think once.

https://twitter.com/KdinJenzen/status/1206990507584262144?s=19

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



PhysicsFrenzy posted:

I wasn't aware of 95% of that, and I'm really excited to find out that there's so much more representation than I thought! I definitely knew and forgot about Musashi, and I think it just never registered with me that Artoria is bi when reading FSN. To be fair a good chunk of that seems like you'd need to read/play the supporting materials to ever know about
In Artoria's case its more implied than stated, but she's clearly attracted to Rin. The UBW ending where Artoria sticks around pretty much says as much.

Some of it though, yeah. Still it's pretty clearly a franchise thats not really hung up on straightness, which is cool. As silly as it might seem (and not quite related since its from the Tsukihime branch of the franchse) the random line Akiha has in Kagetsu Tohya where she just casually drops that she's attracted to a classmate was pretty revelatory for a younger Endorph, lol.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Hungry posted:

I enjoy a lot of stuff that isn't explicitly "we are scissoring off screen 24/7" but is still obviously lesbian coded. I hate that term, is there a better one?
The secret is that 90% of the time you can just drop the word 'coded'

PhysicsFrenzy
May 30, 2011

cats can have little a sunglasses, as a treat

Rody One Half posted:

Da Vinci is definitely an aspect that varies from writer to writer, much like FGO in general, but that just means you get really annoying backslides. Like for example by the time Camelot rolls around the main story has shifted to totally treating her correctly, but then you get to Shinjuku and Higashide is having SHERLOCK HOLMES of all characters forgetting her pronouns.

E: to clarify the D'eon thing, I think it's weird and indeed bad to take a figure who is so unambiguously a transwoman we used to call being trans Deonism or something, and then changing that figure so you can treat them interchangeably with Astolfo.

And I say that despite liking Astolfo.

Yeah, D'eon's treatment is baffling. Despite Da Vinci's clumsy handling in places they clearly aren't afraid to have trans characters in the spotlight, so I'm not sure what the deal is there.

Endorph posted:

In Artoria's case its more implied than stated, but she's clearly attracted to Rin. The UBW ending where Artoria sticks around pretty much says as much.

Some of it though, yeah. Still it's pretty clearly a franchise thats not really hung up on straightness, which is cool. As silly as it might seem (and not quite related since its from the Tsukihime branch of the franchse) the random line Akiha has in Kagetsu Tohya where she just casually drops that she's attracted to a classmate was pretty revelatory for a younger Endorph, lol.

That doesn't seem silly :shobon: It just goes to show just how much representation matters.

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013






Oh. I really liked the marie/d'eon bits...

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



I like D'eon's design, at least. And that Marie had a crush on D'eon.

Hungry
Jul 14, 2006



Endorph posted:

The secret is that 90% of the time you can just drop the word 'coded'

That's ... actually a really good point.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Shape Shift With Me


Shiki Ryougi is nonbinary (I guess more specifically bigender) and has a bi boyfriend. Shiki's gender identity and Mikiya's orientation are actually pretty major elements of the otherwise impenetrable Nasu nonsense story. I thought that was pretty cool, like this story about metaphysical serial killers was getting too abstract, let's bring it back down to earth and make it more relatable by making them trans and gay.

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



Enkidu is literally a pile of sentient clay. He's more agender than anything else.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Endorph posted:

In Artoria's case its more implied than stated, but she's clearly attracted to Rin. The UBW ending where Artoria sticks around pretty much says as much.

and they gently caress

PhysicsFrenzy
May 30, 2011

cats can have little a sunglasses, as a treat

everythingWasBees posted:

Oh. I really liked the marie/d'eon bits...

It's more that it's weird to have taken a trans icon and made them nonbinary than that D'eons handling in-game is bad.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Arturia's input in that scene technically is minimal

Rin's all in though

E: ^ I mean I skipped agartha put my understanding Is it in fact gets quite bad

PhysicsFrenzy
May 30, 2011

cats can have little a sunglasses, as a treat

realta nua dragon fever dreams or bust :colbert:

Rody One Half posted:

Arturia's input in that scene technically is minimal

Rin's all in though

E: ^ I mean I skipped agartha put my understanding Is it in fact gets quite bad

agartha is disgusting trash and I'm pretending it didn't happen

Waci
May 30, 2011


dolphins > dragons :colbert:

Arianya
Nov 3, 2009



It's pretty universal that Rin has the hots for BSaber

Aurora posted:


I keep meaning to ask, and I guess this is as good a place as any, but does that character from your av/the setting have more material? I've seen the 3 music videos on YouTube but wasn't sure if that was All She Wrote™️

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011

Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

this thread is good but also makes me feel like a simpleton because i don't have time to read manga and just sometimes get to see a gay in an anime or cartoon i watch with friends, so i have nothing new to contribute because anything i know of is probably mainstream, shallow or both :V

Waci
May 30, 2011


The last page is discussing a franchise that made it big through porn games and which lootbox mobile game spinoff is currently one of the world's best-selling videogames, I'm not sure shallow and mainstream are forbidden here

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




Waci posted:

The last page is discussing a franchise that made it big through porn games and which lootbox mobile game spinoff is currently one of the world's best-selling videogames, I'm not sure shallow and mainstream are forbidden here

yeah, which franchise is this? I'm completely lost, and I thought I was a rather large anime fan...

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011

Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

yeah true, i guess i just feel dumb because before that people were having a discussion about lgbtq themes in a bunch of other works and talking about how to properly represent asexuality, and i can't contribute to stuff like that because for me it's often just "wow, there's someone not-straight/not-cis on the screen in my action show and they're not treated like poo poo, awesome" without much deeper thought.

has anyone here seen House of Five Leaves? i try to not read too much into stuff that's not explicit, but I got a very strong "i actually think this is supposed to be gay" vibe from it, and at least one of the author's other works has a gay male character in it.

PhysicsFrenzy
May 30, 2011

cats can have little a sunglasses, as a treat

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

yeah, which franchise is this? I'm completely lost, and I thought I was a rather large anime fan...

Fate. If you look up Fate Saber you might recognize that character even it you didn't know where she's from.

Waci
May 30, 2011


Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

yeah, which franchise is this? I'm completely lost, and I thought I was a rather large anime fan...

Fate. Most of the discussion has been about Fate/Grand Order (the currently popular mobile game) or Fate/Stay Night (the original early-2000s visual novel).

Julias
Jun 24, 2012



RottenK posted:

this thread is good but also makes me feel like a simpleton because i don't have time to read manga and just sometimes get to see a gay in an anime or cartoon i watch with friends, so i have nothing new to contribute because anything i know of is probably mainstream, shallow or both :V

I mean, feel free to ask for recommendations or inquire if any anine/manga deal with subject matter 'xxx'. Or if you just wanna talk about any lgbtq+ issues separate from anime/manga, that's honestly fine too :shobon:

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




Ahhh, ok. Honestly fate seems rather impenetrable to me lol

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

Ahhh, ok. Honestly fate seems rather impenetrable to me lol

https://twitter.com/ivyfriday/status/1224902060920975362?s=19

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011

Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

Julias posted:

I mean, feel free to ask for recommendations or inquire if any anine/manga deal with subject matter 'xxx'. Or if you just wanna talk about any lgbtq+ issues separate from anime/manga, that's honestly fine too :shobon:

a lot of the discussion and recommendations i've seen are of stories with gay women or trans people, im curious if there's anything good this thread could recommend that has gay men? i've seen Given and Yuri on Ice, and Hoshiai no Sora gets a honorary mention even if it doesn't focus on it and the character in question might not be a man

i tried looking for something that might be for me back when i was a teen and didn't know better than to look at what a bunch of straight teenage fujoshis on my local anime forum liked, but none of the recommendations were good at all, it was all either gross or a dumb pointless tragedy or both

that tragedy thing is an issue for me, i'm fine with character struggling but im tired of having lgbt people killed off for drama, feels like this used to be a constant trope though maybe i just wasn't lucky with what i've seen

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


i will declare type moon woke in 24 hours if my demands are not met

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

Ahhh, ok. Honestly fate seems rather impenetrable to me lol

people like to act like fate is impenetrable cause there's so much of it but tbh you can just kinda jump into any fate thing that seems interesting to you. most of it isn't too hung up on the audience having a perfect grasp of the setting, like with el-melloi you don't really need to see fate/zero to get the premise of a depressed gay detective investigating magic mysteries while despairing over his gay crush on king iskandar, who he played a bad sega saturn war strategy game with once

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010





If it was the johnny depp willy wonka i can understand that

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!

johnny depp willy wonka isn't that weird or traumatizing, it's mostly just dull

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




no, its weird as heck

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


its weird like a hot topic is weird

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




teenage edge?

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



RottenK posted:

a lot of the discussion and recommendations i've seen are of stories with gay women or trans people, im curious if there's anything good this thread could recommend that has gay men? i've seen Given and Yuri on Ice, and Hoshiai no Sora gets a honorary mention even if it doesn't focus on it and the character in question might not be a man

i tried looking for something that might be for me back when i was a teen and didn't know better than to look at what a bunch of straight teenage fujoshis on my local anime forum liked, but none of the recommendations were good at all, it was all either gross or a dumb pointless tragedy or both

that tragedy thing is an issue for me, i'm fine with character struggling but im tired of having lgbt people killed off for drama, feels like this used to be a constant trope though maybe i just wasn't lucky with what i've seen

ymmv but Hakata Tonkotsu Ramens is a good recent show that isn't gay/romance centric but has a gay couple with a daughter in the ensemble, and the two male leads are heavily shipped by the show. i just found it refreshing to have those characters/elements and otherwise be largely focused on its whole criminal underworld/contract killer plots. and despite the darkness you'd expect from the setting, it ends up a fairly light show (first episode or so are a bit misleading here).

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



This reminds me I should play my copy of Extella LiNK

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



Sakurazuka posted:

This reminds me I should play my copy of Extella LiNK

It's good. Astolfo and Charlemagne have some good back and forth in it.

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011

Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

dogsicle posted:

ymmv but Hakata Tonkotsu Ramens is a good recent show that isn't gay/romance centric but has a gay couple with a daughter in the ensemble, and the two male leads are heavily shipped by the show. i just found it refreshing to have those characters/elements and otherwise be largely focused on its whole criminal underworld/contract killer plots. and despite the darkness you'd expect from the setting, it ends up a fairly light show (first episode or so are a bit misleading here).

I actually seen this before and liked it a lot, even recommended it to my friends. can't believe i forgot about that show, but glad to be reminded of it

i still wonder if there's some gender commentary going on with Lin - i know he's not trans but i wonder if having a cis male who's clearly confident in his gender but also happy and comfortable with dressing and looking like a woman is a positive example of a gender nonconfirming person, or if im reading into it too much

DisDisDis
Dec 21, 2013


Hungry posted:

I enjoy a lot of stuff that isn't explicitly "we are scissoring off screen 24/7" but is still obviously lesbian coded. I hate that term, is there a better one?

just say lesbian but be prepared for progressive straight guys to launch into passionate explanations of the many multi-faceted meanings of "daisuki" when you do

to the above I don't think you have to overthink whether Lin is really a positive represenation of x if he makes you happy.

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Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



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