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Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




I really hope they get to redo it sometime and make the relationship more explicit (not explicit-as-smut but rather explicit-as-acknowledged)


(Talking about Yuri on Ice!! for the benefit of the snipe






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DisDisDis
Dec 21, 2013


did bees toxx me for granbelm i dont remember

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011

Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

is there anything they'd have to change apart from showing the drat kiss this time

literally the one complaint i have about YoI

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

The director is explicit that she did the kiss that way because she wanted to.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

I really hope they get to redo it sometime and make the relationship more explicit (not explicit-as-smut but rather explicit-as-acknowledged)


(Talking about Yuri on Ice!! for the benefit of the snipe






0
Its explicit lol

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



If we made art more boring homophobes and idiots would still deny stuff is real. If you showed the kiss onscreen theyd talk about how it was a moment of pure passion, if you made them say they love each other theyd say it was meant platonically, if you literally showed them getting married theyd say it was a fantasy sequence because gay marriage isnt legal in japan

So just let directors and stuff do what they want lol

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


yeah, I mean they bought an engagement ring.


anyways.

IM THE BEST JJ PLEASE REMEMBER ME THIS IS WHO I AM BAYB ABY

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011

Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

Rand Brittain posted:

The director is explicit that she did the kiss that way because she wanted to.

i know that they weren't forced to not show it, but i still want to see them kiss

not for any "oh but how do i know they're really gay" reasons, that dumb, just wanna see guys make out on screen in my cartoons

RottenK fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Feb 28, 2020

Syenite
Jun 21, 2011

delete this


Grimey Drawer

The fabled platonic make out session

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


i was annoy when the kiss wasn't on screen but "explicit" is not the right word to use here (like... they are literally kissing in that scene, its explicit)

if you want the show to be magically redo make it less boring in the second half not more "explicit"

Toalpaz posted:

IM THE BEST JJ PLEASE REMEMBER ME THIS IS WHO I AM BAYB ABY

jj.... he was the greatest :unsmith:

Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Feb 28, 2020

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



I forgot who the director was that said she never liked to show characters kissing in her series on screen, she'd usually cut to the feet, because she wanted to give the characters privacy.

I mean that could not be further from Sayo yamamoto's way of rolling so not the case here but it's cute

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Naoko yamada i think

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




Rody One Half posted:

I forgot who the director was that said she never liked to show characters kissing in her series on screen, she'd usually cut to the feet, because she wanted to give the characters privacy.

I mean that could not be further from Sayo yamamoto's way of rolling so not the case here but it's cute


Ahhh, is that so? I thought I had read it was an order from on high, but that honestly sounds much better lol. The other big thing is yes, they bought engagement rings, but iirc the show seemed to go out of it's way to avoid referring to it as such, as though it's providing plausible deniability.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


there isn't a single ounce of plausible deniability

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



How often do people buying engagement rings go 'this is an engagement ring that i have bought because I am romantically attracted to you'

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



it was maybe the show that broke me for caring about things being explicit, idr

ultimately i think viktor and yuri are a pretty bad and boring couple at least in the majority of the show so it just transferred my negativity from something unreasonable to that instead. hope the movie manages to exist and be good

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


like its totally ok to not enjoy how a relationship is presented or whatever but like painting it as "this was about plausible deniability/a need to undercut its explicitness" the framing that devalues this thing you like

Endorph posted:

'this is an engagement ring that i have bought because I am romantically attracted to you'

wow, its like you step out of the big bang theory writing room

Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Feb 29, 2020

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


ahh i been possessed by the ghost of dis

in a dis voice

Wuah, Dis in Da house! Read Jealousy by Scarlet Lastname if you want some "EXPLICTNESS," hachi machi (the famous catchphrase i say)

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




Endorph posted:

How often do people buying engagement rings go 'this is an engagement ring that i have bought because I am romantically attracted to you'

How often do they go 'this is a good luck charm'?

I don't even know why this is being argued over; Yes, the word of the creator is that they are gay, in love, etc but it's not exactly controversial that there are people (beyond me) who see a superficially ambiguous presentation.

quote:

ike its totally ok to not enjoy how a relationship is presented or whatever but like painting it as "this was about plausible deniability/a need to undercut its explicitness" the framing that devalues this thing you like

Now this is just putting words in my mouth. :/

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013



Not to say that you're in the wrong for this case or that Victor and Yuri's relationship couldn't have been better done but like I do feel in general that there's this perception that gay relationships in media need to be 20 times more explicit to count. A guy and girl can blush at each other over a compliment and lots of people will generally assume that "oh yeah, this is a portrayal of romance or such" but that doesn't fly if it's two guys.

It's not really anyone's specific fault, but it's kinda lame lgbt romance needs to jump through extra hoops to be real in some peoples eyes. I used to be the same but at some point I realised if something seems pretty gay chances are its intended to be gay.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

Now this is just putting words in my mouth. :/

yeah I shouldn't have used quotes there since it implies that. but I don't think I'm far off in how your take here reads

SyntheticPolygon posted:

I used to be the same but at some point I realised if something seems pretty gay chances are its intended to be gay.

yep
hell poo poo can be gay without intetion too sometimes

Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Feb 29, 2020

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!

i can't believe after all these years dis finally said their famous catchphrase

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

How often do they go 'this is a good luck charm'?
if a straight couple had said that would you have cared at all? It's a pretty normal 'heh, yeah' kind of line. Calling something you have positive feelings about a good luck charm is pretty normal flirting/joking.

It's being argued over because the need people have to argue down things that are very obviously queer that they like sucks. You are the person forcing ambiguity into this, not the show. starting from a baseline of 'how can this be proven to be gay?' is a trap forced on you by the heterosexuals.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Feb 29, 2020

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



you may reply that other gay people also think its ambiguous, but gay people are notoriously bad at understanding media, due to the shackles forced on them by the hets, who are even worse at it. only by accepting that kannazuki no miko is a good anime can we be free. god bless the usa.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




Snooze Cruise posted:

yeah I shouldn't have used quotes there since it implies that. but I don't think I'm far off in how your take here reads

Not really, tbqh. But seriously, why are yall going after me so hard here and acting like its so controversial that I'd like to see a version of Yuri on Ice where it was a bit more affirmative that they were in a relationship? Like... Yeah, I am 'forcing' ambiguity on it-- that's how I am reading it. You, quite obviously, have a different reading 'forcing' unambiguity on it and that's ok! Different people have different viewpoints! That's how media analysis works!

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Endorph posted:

you may reply that other gay people also think its ambiguous, but gay people are notoriously bad at understanding media, due to the shackles forced on them by the hets, who are even worse at it. only by accepting that kannazuki no miko is a good anime can we be free. god bless the usa.

Near as I can tell, it's not that they think it's ambiguous that it happened, it's that an obvious gay relationship had this annoying obfuscation over it, because that happens way too often to gay relationships in media in general and anime in particular. Yes, heterosexual romances can be subtle and indirect, but it can feel like gay romances can't be anything but. It's the difference between 'every gay relationship in anime should be more open and explicit' and 'there should be more open, explicit gay relationships in anime'. Not every gay romance has to be like the climax of REDLINE, but there's room out there for ones that are.

For the record, I can see that YOI was doing a deliberate thing with its story about the nature of celebrity. Most of the show is presented through TV cameras, social media, and short, disconnected snippets of the characters' lives. Most of the development of Viktor and Yuri's relationship happens off-screen, and their kiss is blocked because the fictional 'camera' is at the wrong angle. It's an interesting exploration of our parasocial relationship with public figures, and how we piece together their personal lives from the fragments they give us, but I can totally see how it would be unsatisfying if you're looking for a conventional romance.

Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Feb 29, 2020

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



stan yurio and chris imo

Sharkopath
May 27, 2009



In regards to viewpoints, I have checked the ancient rulebooks and they say there can only be one.

*tosses two claymores into the middle of the thread*

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013






considering that they have engagement rings and a off-screen but extremely blatant kiss I'm not really sure what more you need to make it explicit

like are we talking about adding an anal sex scene, or?

I would not be opposed to the idea but that would make it a very different anime I feel like

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013






although even then I feel like somebody would end up arguing that they're just platonic friends who enjoy having sex with one another sometimes because like what pair of bros wouldn't

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013






sometimes you just want to make your bro feel good you know?

lunar detritus
May 6, 2009



Lipstick Apathy

Darth Walrus posted:

For the record, I can see that YOI was doing a deliberate thing with its story about the nature of celebrity. Most of the show is presented through TV cameras, social media, and short, disconnected snippets of the characters' lives. Most of the development of Viktor and Yuri's relationship happens off-screen, and their kiss is blocked because the fictional 'camera' is at the wrong angle. It's an interesting exploration of our parasocial relationship with public figures, and how we piece together their personal lives from the fragments they give us, but I can totally see how it would be unsatisfying if you're looking for a conventional romance.

Huh, you just sold me on Yuri on Ice. That sounds incredibly interesting.

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013






anyway for my next trick I'll simultaneously talk about how citrus is a problematic incest anime and how the relationship between the two is sisterly affection and nothing more

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013






lunar detritus posted:

Huh, you just sold me on Yuri on Ice. That sounds incredibly interesting.

it's incredibly unrepresentative of the show lol
it's a sports anime about skating. there's also a bit of gay romance. it's not really anything more than that. and it doesn't really need to be imo.

like you can definitely make that read I guess but like that would be a terrible way to describe the show.

ZiegeDame
Aug 21, 2005

YUKIMURAAAA!


my take on Yuri on Ice is I will be forever disappointed that is a different flavor of gay than I initially assumed based on the title and also nobody has ever made this joke before don't @ me

lunar detritus
May 6, 2009



Lipstick Apathy

everythingWasBees posted:

like you can definitely make that read I guess but like that would be a terrible way to describe the show.

:smith:

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013







I mean if you enjoy sports anime it's a pretty okay one.
it made me excited about figure skating, which I did not care at all about before, and that's basically the single best indicator of a sport anime's quality.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Darth Walrus posted:

Near as I can tell, it's not that they think it's ambiguous that it happened, it's that an obvious gay relationship had this annoying obfuscation over it, because that happens way too often to gay relationships in media in general and anime in particular. Yes, heterosexual romances can be subtle and indirect, but it can feel like gay romances can't be anything but. It's the difference between 'every gay relationship in anime should be more open and explicit' and 'there should be more open, explicit gay relationships in anime'. Not every gay romance has to be like the climax of REDLINE, but there's room out there for ones that are.
I mean the issue is there literally are gay romance anime that are like the climax of redline but people act like it's somehow unexplicit. Akanesasu Shoujo as a random example, that's a show that affirms the romance in the most bombastic way possible and puts the entire emotional weight of the last fight on it, and I've 100% seen people act like it was somehow unambiguous or whatever. Like anything that'd count as 'obviously explicit and canonical' in a het romance turns into 'subtle and indirect' in a gay one.

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013






it's basically at the point of parody. like people make jokes about how you can have two characters say I love you and kiss and get married but people will still say they aren't gay or the show wasn't gay enough. and that's basically what's happening in this thread lol

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Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010




Except people aren't??? Idk why you guys are so upset that people see things differently than you :/

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