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fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005




Randalor posted:

After all, how was Paul's pet lightbulb following him unless they cramed a human brain in there?

you know, i was assuming they had a radio remote control operator somewhere in the building, just like the hunter seeker guy hidden in the walls. that's why only paul has a lightbulb following him around, because you gotta be a rich important person to get that kind of servant

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Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT





Polo-Rican posted:

I have no doubts that Villeneuve wanted to, and planned to, make two films from the beginning... I just think that's a risky and potentially bad idea if your second film isn't at least greenlit in advance! Doubly so if your first movie has the bad fortune of being released during a once-in-a-generation pandemic ayyyy

What did you want him to do? Not make the movie? If he could get both parts funded at once he obviously would have done that, no?

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



fart simpson posted:

you know, i was assuming they had a radio remote control operator somewhere in the building, just like the hunter seeker guy hidden in the walls. that's why only paul has a lightbulb following him around, because you gotta be a rich important person to get that kind of servant

I'm going with the pigeon explanation whenever possible.

A Buffer Gay Dude
Oct 25, 2020


Thereís a hairless cat in there

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





feedmyleg posted:

I'm going with the pigeon explanation whenever possible.

The Emperor has been limiting tech growth partially because he gets rich off of his hold on the pigeon-breeding industry.

House Coo-rrino.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Polo-Rican posted:

I have no doubts that Villeneuve wanted to, and planned to, make two films from the beginning... I just think that's a risky and potentially bad idea to make your first film dependent on your second film if your second film isn't greenlit in advance! Doubly so if your first movie has the bad fortune of being released during a once-in-a-generation pandemic ayyyy

I feel like there was no way in hell the second movie was not going to get made unless the first was an absolute mega-flop. They probably didn't officially announce it from the beginning/yet because they want to tiptoe around when other tentpole stuff is coming out/COVID variants at that time/etc. instead of setting it fully in motion.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Randalor posted:

Serious answer to obvious joke question: they have some level of computers, just nothing "smart" enough to get to the point of possibly wanting to overthrow humanity. After all, how was Paul's pet lightbulb following him unless they cramed a human brain in there?

Actually, considering it's Harkonnans we're talking about, it could very well be that homing missles have lobotomized human brains in them.

Jack B Nimble posted:

Could be two seated aircraft with a dedicated gunner guiding the missles, swat cat style.

Edit: or limited computers that don't create Skynet, yes, that's a much better answer.

Yeah I always thought they just couldn't make AI or I guess more currently stuff like the social media algorithms and stuff but there's still computers in general. Just you have a mentat for heavier stuff instead of feeing all of your tactical information into Strategy-Bot 5000 or whatever.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT ZFS? OH YOU HAVE?

HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT HOW YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG? NO? LET ME TELL YOU

...AND IN CONCLUSION, LINUX IS NOT A REAL OPERATING SYSTEM AND ANYONE USING IT SHOULD BE SHOT INTO THE SUN, INCLUDING YOU, JUST SAYING


moths posted:

I'd say it's incomplete in that it's half of the first part of a story.

The film explicitly tells you this at the end. ("It's just the beginning" or words to that effect.)

It's silly to hold that against the picture, though.
Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's incomplete and saying: Now it is complete because it ended here.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005




Neo Rasa posted:

Yeah I always thought they just couldn't make AI or I guess more currently stuff like the social media algorithms and stuff but there's still computers in general. Just you have a mentat for heavier stuff instead of feeing all of your tactical information into Strategy-Bot 5000 or whatever.

my man, they donít even have calculators. thatís why in this movie thufir rolled his eyes back to do some quick math

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!


Alchenar posted:

I find it odd that things which are in the film in multiple scenes are getting cast as 'blink and you'll miss it' moments.

I get the feeling that this is how some people in this thread watched the film

GORDON
Jan 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy


Randalor posted:

Mass ritual sacrifice wasn't the Harkonnans, and the spider thing was... a pet. No idea if it was a genetic spider human, or just a freaky creature. So you have... beheading prisoners.

Simple mass murder isn't enough to illustrate someone is bad. Hell, a beheading is quick and painless. They are practically kind.

GORDON fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 25, 2021

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Polo-Rican posted:

I feel like a lot of things were underplayed, even if they were present. the biggest ones imho:

ē The scale of Paul's jihad visions. Without having read the books I wouldn't think of it as a galactic jihad that sweeps across the entire universe, engulfing planets, etc. Ultimately I think this is the film's #1 biggest problem since the film ends at Paul's decision to accept his bloody future.
ē The danger of Arrakis itself. Water conservation is mentioned but severely underplayed, as are the sandstorms. In the books, Arrakis fuckin sucks! Being in the desert is a guaranteed death sentence, and water conservation makes life uncomfortable for everyone, all of the time. In the movie, it feels more like a "just a standard desert environment, like one you'd find on earth (except with big worms)"

These two might feel nitpicky, but they have big implications for the story, stakes, and impact. There's more stuff I think was underplayed: the politics, the weirdness of the universe (guild navigators, mentats, etc), Paul's relationship with his farther; but these things would have less of an impact on the film as it was made

I'm hoping part 2 goes into some of this stuff more. I'm mean Paul wages a guerilla war against spice smugglers, Rabban's folks and so on surely the water conservation and how much Dune really does gently caress up technology and the power of the sandstorms and stuff would have to come into play to show how the Fremen are able to take advantage of the environment with their DESERT POWER to win


I hope Paul's visions are of a bigger scale/more hosed up in the sequel. It would make sense too since he'll have been inundated with spice compared to any other point in his life. And I don't know what direction they're going to take the characters in but it could create some good conflict with him also, like maybe his visions at first really were just a few planets or Dune itself getting hosed up which made it easier for him to decide that it was worth doing to avenge the Atreides family/etc. They can play around with how much he's actually seen so far and do some cool stuff with that.


fart simpson posted:

my man, they donít even have calculators. thatís why in this movie thufir rolled his eyes back to do some quick math

A bunch of mentats in the each ship with joysticks manually guiding every missile

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012



Fun Shoe

Randalor posted:

But it wasn't really inefficient or animalistic? It looked like they had lined up the prisoners and were starting to go down the rows beheading people. Possibly brutal, but quick and relatively painless.

That we're shown something that DOES look cruel, brutal and animalistic, and it's not the group specifically known for their cruelty is where the issue lies. The movie has a nasty habit of telling us how bad the Harkonnans are, but we're never really shown them being cruel. They come off as generic baddies with nothing to really stand out compared to the Sardukar. Honestly, looking back on it, they came off more how I would expect a callous corporation that maximized profits over everything else to be portrayed rather than a group that are notoriously cruel.

Animals don't have ritualistic sacrifices.

Also, the second in command of the entire house going down a line of random mook soldiers murdering them in the final moments of a battle is definitely "inefficient".

SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 25, 2021

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


stratdax posted:

With how little they developed Rabban in the movie, who in the book is actually more developed than Feyd,

This is from a few pages back, but seen a fair number of posts with a similar theme (Rabban underused compared to book), and it just isn't true. Rabban is in one scene in the book, where he's being told he's taking over Arrakis again because Piter has been killed. He's mentioned a few times before that, a few times after that, and then unceremoniously dies off screen. Feyd, by comparison, actively has stuff going on that isn't just "get spice, kill fremen".

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007




Soiled Meat

Are they gonna make Chalmette put on some muscle or is he gonna beat down that yoked out Harkonnen nephew while being smaller than his mom?

Edited: maybe I should be less cavalier about stuff that's gonna happen next movie, sorry

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Oct 25, 2021

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

MrL_JaKiri posted:

This is from a few pages back, but seen a fair number of posts with a similar theme (Rabban underused compared to book), and it just isn't true. Rabban is in one scene in the book, where he's being told he's taking over Arrakis again because Piter has been killed. He's mentioned a few times before that, a few times after that, and then unceremoniously dies off screen. Feyd, by comparison, actively has stuff going on that isn't just "get spice, kill fremen".

If anything I felt like Rabban was underused in the book. I remember I think right at the end of his scene he asks the Baron about his deal with the Sardaukar vs. what the Emperor knows of it and stuff and the Baron's internally like "wait this guy actually does know his poo poo?" Prior to that he's only mentioned mostly by the Baron thinking about what an idiot he is, so that conversation being his first actual appearance made it feel like a turning point like there was going to be more to the character and then he's not really mentioned much again until his offscreen death.

Jack B Nimble posted:

Are they gonna make Chalmette put on some muscle or is he gonna beat down that yoked out Harkonnen nephew while being smaller than his mom?

Edited: maybe I should be less cavalier about stuff that's gonna happen next movie, sorry

I have a lot of respect for how Jodorowsky had his son do martial arts training and work out for like a year and a half straight to play Paul and do his own stunts and stuff.

Polo-Rican
Jul 3, 2004

emptyquote my posts or die

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

What did you want him to do? Not make the movie?

I guess what I'm saying is that if part two isn't 100% guaranteed to happen... like, contracts signed, talent in place, etc... what I want him to do is go fully epic with this one. 4 hours, an intermission, squeeze the full book in there :getin:

Not a lot of films truly warrant sailing past the 3 hour mark, but adaptations of well-known literature are one of the exceptions

Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Oct 25, 2021

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.





GORDON posted:

Simple mass murder isn't enough to illustrate someone is bad. Hell, a beheading is quick and painless. They are practically kind.

House Harkonnen is going to be the next Shane from TWD.

"They're not villains, they're just doing what strong men need to do in hard times."

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR

🔊😴


Pedro De Heredia posted:

That's psychological cruelty. Not "turning someone into a spider."

Being on the receiving end of extreme recreational surgery and being kept as an object? Not nearly as bad as not knowing whether someone you love is dead.

I get it, it's hosed up and crushing. I understand how that can destroy someone and be used to bend them to your will because it's something that really happens to people every day.

The whole spider thing is obviously fictional and yeah from that perspective it's easy to dismiss it mentally - it isn't real and it couldn't be real so big whoop.

The thing is there's a history of people trying to do things exactly like this to other human beings just to see if they can. It stems from falling to see someone as a person and that scene is telling us that the baron and the Harkonnen in general do not view anyone as human. It's literal inhumanity and cruelty for the sake of cruelty or even amusement.

I'm not arguing that Yueh's wife should have been explicitly said to be that, I think that would have been dumb. I am expressing discomfort at how casually people are dismissing something that, when it became known that the Nazis were doing something on a much simpler and smaller scale was so shocking that it led to international outrage and the Nuremberg code.

Police_monitoring
Oct 11, 2021

by sebmojo


Starting to feel like they went with a sub-TV ep amount of plot so that fanboys would anxiously beg for a sequel thats probably being made either way

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!


Polo-Rican posted:

I guess what I'm saying is that if part two isn't 100% guaranteed to happen... like, contracts signed, talent in place, etc... what I want him to do is go fully epic with this one. 4 hours, an intermission, squeeze the full book in there :getin:

Not a lot of films truly warrant sailing past the 3 hour mark, but adaptations of classic sci-fi / fantasy are one of the exceptions

Warner bros wouldn't commit to the 2nd film but you'd think they would have green lit a single film that was twice as big, twice as long ... so nearly twice as expensive but less likely to make as much money as two films?

Shifter
Nov 28, 2003
I owe Crowley a beer!

Mega Comrade posted:

I get the feeling that this is how some people in this thread watched the film



Iíd ask you where you got that picture from but the answer isnít one I am willing to accept.

But yeah, probably like that. Or in front of a tv blinking a lot, between bathroom breaks.

Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006


Baron von Eevl posted:

I am expressing discomfort at how casually people are dismissing something that, when it became known that the Nazis were doing something on a much simpler and smaller scale was so shocking that it led to international outrage and the Nuremberg code.

It would be very bad if someone did this in real life, but we're talking about representing it in a movie, which is not really the same thing. It would be too jarring to take seriously.

Cruelty is not just about who inflicts it but about who receives it. Extreme cruelty can characterize the Harkonnens, sure, but it also characterizes the people whose cruelty they're subjected to. It dehumanizes them and degrades them, and that will have effects on how the audience perceives them, effects we may not actually want.

Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Oct 25, 2021

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT





Polo-Rican posted:

I guess what I'm saying is that if part two isn't 100% guaranteed to happen... like, contracts signed, talent in place, etc... what I want him to do is go fully epic with this one. 4 hours, an intermission, squeeze the full book in there :getin:

Not a lot of films truly warrant sailing past the 3 hour mark, but adaptations of well-known literature are one of the exceptions

Do you honestly think he had the choice to do that and decided "nah, i'm gonna split it in two and maybe i'll get to make the other half"

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR

🔊😴


Pedro De Heredia posted:

It would be very bad if someone did this in real life, but we're talking about representing it in a movie, which is not really the same thing.

It would be very bad if someone tortured dr. yueh's wife in real life, but we're talking about representing it in a movie, which is not really the same thing.

A Buffer Gay Dude
Oct 25, 2020


Mega Comrade posted:

Warner bros wouldn't commit to the 2nd film but you'd think they would have green lit a single film that was twice as big, twice as long ... so nearly twice as expensive but less likely to make as much money as two films?

Please see my earlier post about not responding to this poster. I think he might be a troll.

MaoistBanker
Sep 11, 2001

For Sound Financial Pranning!

BoxOfficeMojo conservatively estimates that had there not been a HBO Max simultaneous streaming release that Dune would have been at 84-87 million for the weekend in box office.

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!


MaoistBanker posted:

BoxOfficeMojo conservatively estimates that had there not been a HBO Max simultaneous streaming release that Dune would have been at 84-87 million for the weekend in box office.

How do they make that estimate?

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT





there's no way to make that calculation that isn't complete fantasy

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



If this wasn't on HBOMax day one I wouldn't have seen it at all. At least until it became available on a streaming service. It probably assumes if people didn't have the option to stream the film they would have gone to the theater.

MaoistBanker
Sep 11, 2001

For Sound Financial Pranning!

Mega Comrade posted:

How do they make that estimate?

Sorry, it was deadline:

quote:

And yes, the result here for Dune, and the vibrant pre-sales we heard about going into the weekend (the best to date), beg the question as to how much money is being left on the table with the HBO Max release, especially at a time when younger audiences are driving the box office recovery.

If Dune clocks a similar US household viewership draw in Samba TV terrestrial homes as the first weekend of New Line/HBO Max Mortal Kombat (3.8M), and we use the average price for Dune tickets from box office firm Market EntTelligence ($14.41), back-of-the-napkin calculations could indicate that some $55M was left on the table at the domestic B.O. with Dune (meaning a possible domestic opening of $95M).

FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007

Heavy Shit


Grimey Drawer

Randalor posted:

The Harkonnens were going down the line summarily executing people with quick beheadings. What we're shown on the prison planet with people strapped upside down and bled out in the rain seemed more cruel and more in line with the Harkonnans. Honestly, if you showed me the two scenes without context, I would have assumed the roles were reversed (Sardukar doing quick executions while the Harkonnans torturing people in the rain).

This is the first criticism of the film that has resonated with me. The film did little if anything to illustrate that the Harkonnens are any more violent / terrible / evil than House Corrino, the only other House shown in the film besides Atreides. If the film wants to push a "it's the Atreides against everyone else" vibe then it definitely succeeded.

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT





MaoistBanker posted:

Sorry, it was deadline:

yeah that assumes every single person who streamed it would have gone to the theater instead, which is horseshit.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

https://twitter.com/SecretsOfDune/status/1451926429982150658

Ubersandwich
Jun 1, 2003

1964

Considering it was available to HBO Max subscribers for no charge, it's pretty safe to say the at home numbers don't translate at all to missed box office ticket sales.

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!


Jimbot posted:

If this wasn't on HBOMax day one I wouldn't have seen it at all. At least until it became available on a streaming service. It probably assumes if people didn't have the option to stream the film they would have gone to the theater.

I bet its making that assumption. Like how studios do with piracy, that's its a 1-to-1 relationship.

I actually had the movie ready to watch at home. But went to the movies for the first time in 4 years (and not because of covid) . Purely because of who the director is.

For me the cinema going experience isn't worth it anymore, except for the number of directors I can count on one hand who still take advantage of the medium.

Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006


FLIPADELPHIA posted:

This is the first criticism of the film that has resonated with me. The film did little if anything to illustrate that the Harkonnens are any more violent / terrible / evil than House Corrino, the only other House shown in the film besides Atreides.

House Corrino are not shown in the film. I don't think we can judge anything about how they are presented until we see them in the 2nd movie.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





There is a really high correlation in people commenting in this thread how they missed important details and also coming up with increasingly bizarre misspellings of ďChalametĒ.

ďI donít know whatís up with Tomithny Skichalet, is he like a wizard or something? He doesnít look like Grandelf tho.Ē

FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007

Heavy Shit


Grimey Drawer

Pedro De Heredia posted:

House Corrino are not shown in the film. I don't think we can judge anything about how they are presented until we see them in the 2nd movie.

The Saurdukar are trained and controlled by the Emperor, who is House Corrino. Salusa Secundus is a Corrino planet. I know the movie doesn't really state this, but I doubt it's different in this version.

FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Oct 25, 2021

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steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

🦅🤠🏈🗽🍕⭐🏳️‍🌈


Soiled Meat

Pedro De Heredia posted:

That's psychological cruelty. Not "turning someone into a spider."

It's me, Yueh! Your wife! Dennis VIlleneuve has turned me into a man-spider!

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