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thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Randalor posted:

Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable?

When I was 13 I could not tell the difference.

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Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



Randalor posted:

Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable?

It's genuinely that bad. Some of Kevin J. Anderson's worst work.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Randalor posted:

Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable?

Kevin J. Anderson's prose is unreadably bad, and Brian is somehow an even worse author than that.

The Butlerian Jihad isn't about machine thinking, it's about writing Matrix/Dune crossover fanfic.

stratdax
Sep 14, 2006



porfiria posted:

This thread is getting boring where is smg

Says a lot about the movie when you think about it

SpaceCadetBob
Dec 27, 2012


Half way through my second watch. Even better the second time!

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Cerv posted:

it really is that bad

For my own entertainment, can you tell us some examples

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I keep catching more bits I like on a rewatch. The scene on Caladan where Paul and Jessica talk about how he might be "the one" has a couple of really cool shots where each sees the other partially obscured by mist, and it reflects how they're seeing each other in that moment: he's becoming more clear to her, and she less clear to him

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



Steve Yun posted:

For my own entertainment, can you tell us some examples

Brain in jar sex scene

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004




Arglebargle III posted:

Brain in jar sex scene

Tammy and the T-Rex?

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019
:discourse:


Martman posted:

No, I haven't... but that does sound good. A lot of aspects of it have seemed kinda lame but once I finally finish Chapterhouse I may be desperate for more Dune media. (don't worry I will never read the Brian stuff)

I remembered, I loved the part where Paul and Jessica are running from the sandworm. We already know Jessica is pregnant at that point, but Paul is the one who stumbles... and Jessica just straight up runs ahead without even considering stopping to help him. Can't remember if that was in the book, but it worked as a great gag on tired movie cliches.

here's the scene with the tooth and where yueh gets his reward. the baron's actor--ian mcneice--is just wonderful. he's probably the version of the baron that matches most closely to my mental image from the book.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Steve Yun posted:

For my own entertainment, can you tell us some examples

The Baron isn't fat and diseased because he's a hedonist, he's fat and diseased because Reverend Mother Mohaim used her Bene Gesserit training to flex her pussy muscles in such a way that he got a disease.

Gaj
Apr 30, 2006


I liked it, but it work better as a mini-series or a perfectly done HBO series. We got the first act of the first book, and how many years will it take to get act 2?

Complications
Jun 19, 2014



Martman posted:

The book baron is literally the evilest dude ever to exist but he has huge George Costanza energy at the same time and it really adds an amazing counterpoint to the overall thread of questioning the "serious hero" narrative. I think you could absolutely attempt to craft a Vladimir Harkonnen for this movie who is not homophobic but still carries the same kind of absurd paranoid scheming villain energy in fun and wacky ways, but it feels like they just gave up on it. He was still cool as kind of a weird Northern European mob boss, and I understand the motivations to simplify his character, but it was probably the thing I missed the most.

The guy who plays Baron Harkonnen in the scifi miniseries gets to chew the scenery in exactly the way you're describing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P14BItB67zE

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


Gaj posted:

I liked it, but it work better as a mini-series or a perfectly done HBO series. We got the first act of the first book, and how many years will it take to get act 2?

It's actually worth noting we got 2/3rds of the novel in this movie. I think a lot of people forget that there's not all that much event after Paul joins the Fremen--he and his mom [vague spoilers] gain their powers and acculturate and then it's the climax.

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.



Randalor posted:

Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable?

It's hells of bad. It's readable in the sense that you could sit down and read it because it uses language and text, but KJA's prose is awful, like being told a story by someone barely interested in the proceedings and completely unfamiliar with the people involved. He uses some of the basic devices that Herbert does: epigraphs at the beginning of chapters and internal monologs. But he lacks all the style and focuses on all the wrong substance. There's no sense that this is a weird, wondrous, and distant future. Where Herbert would narrate the tense character moments around a battle, KJA just tells you about another space fight.

I've only read Sandworms and Hunters, so maybe this critique applies only to them, but I doubt it. Those two novels were the pitch for Brian Herbert and KJA reviving the franchise. Allegedly they had Frank's notes for a seventh and final novel and were going to write that. But first(!) they would do a bunch of prequels beginning with a trilogy about the Butlerian Jihad, the evil robots Erasmus and Omnius, and the formation of houses Atreides, Corrino, and Harkonnen and their eons long conflict. When they finally got around to doing the seventh novel as two novels, they revealed that the two weird olds that Duncan was seeing in visions at the end of Chapterhouse, Daniel and Marty, were actually their own Erasmus and Omnius, that Leto's Golden Path and the Siona gene did not in fact save humanity from her vision of Kralizec and hunter killer robots because Erasmus and Omnius were sending hunter killer robots (and super undetectable face dancers) to wipe out everyone--that's what the Honored Matres were running from--and the only way to save humanity was to create gholas of all the major characters going back to Dune itself and send them on a wild space adventure until they finally figured out what to do and had their big showdown on robot world.

And the cover of Sandworms is a picture of sandworms in an ocean. It's hells of bad.

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


I feel like all you need to know about the KJA/BH books is that the Butlerian Jihad is imagined as Humans Vs. Robots.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 27 days!


Jack B Nimble posted:

I have to agree, while the film is still great in spite of the medicore fights, it's not because the fights are a minor part of the film. I think I count a half dozen knife fight scenes?

it's almost like the dagger fights were more realistic instead of some prolonged choreographic dance or some bullshit

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.


Why the gently caress would anyone want "realistic" knife fights in a Dune movie?

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

You thought, "A robber must hate you to want to take from you"
The robber don't hate you


I wouldn't say they were realistic, they tried for fantastical but knife fights aren't really denis's area of expertise and so they ended up kinda bland and boring despite it. That said, even if we grant they were going for realistic- is that really the right direction to go for the way the book describes the knife fights? I'd say not really

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




porfiria posted:

I feel like all you need to know about the KJA/BH books is that the Butlerian Jihad is imagined as Humans Vs. Robots.

Versus evil robots, you mean.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006




Defiance Industries posted:

The Baron isn't fat and diseased because he's a hedonist, he's fat and diseased because Reverend Mother Mohaim used her Bene Gesserit training to flex her pussy muscles in such a way that he got a disease.

Hokuto Beneken: Forbidden Points of Death

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





PeterWeller posted:



And the cover of Sandworms is a picture of sandworms in an ocean. It's hells of bad.

A quick GIS shows at least three distinct versions of the art for this book and they’re all absolutely awful. I never touched the non-Frank Herbert books cause they sounded bad, this picture is truly terrible.

gently caress that old aphorism we should totally judge this book by its cover.

hump day bitches!
Apr 3, 2011




Jessica is the second concubine of Leto Atreides and paul his second son, the first one obliterated by a bomb. Just terrible, joyless schlock

Defiance Industries posted:

The Baron isn't fat and diseased because he's a hedonist, he's fat and diseased because Reverend Mother Mohaim used her Bene Gesserit training to flex her pussy muscles in such a way that he got a disease.

He also rapes said Reverend Mother.

gohmak
Feb 12, 2004
cookies need love


Horizon Burning posted:

here's the scene with the tooth and where yueh gets his reward. the baron's actor--ian mcneice--is just wonderful. he's probably the version of the baron that matches most closely to my mental image from the book.

I love this movie but the mini series is still the best Dune outside of the books.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011




Defiance Industries posted:

Versus evil robots, you mean.

Eh, from the sounds of it, they were fighting against humans, so they couldn't have been THAT evil.

Dante
Feb 8, 2003



gohmak posted:

I love this movie but the mini series is still the best Dune outside of the books.
Agreed. There's a life to the miniseries where the characters seem animated and invested in their own proceedings that's pretty lacking from either movie. With the exception of Rebecca Ferguson, she's just awesome at conveying her character.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




hump day bitches! posted:

He also rapes said Reverend Mother.

Wasn't she tricking him into it so that she could check a box off on their breeding program?

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 27 days!


Does anyone know what kind of instruments are played during "Armada" theme when the Sardaukar show up?

It sounds like motherfucking distorted bagpipes or some poo poo -- if that's even possible.

Starting right here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HzOPVIqaU#t=181s

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





Defiance Industries posted:

Wasn't she tricking him into it so that she could check a box off on their breeding program?

Did you just actually say that she was asking for it.

Is that a thing you just typed with your human hands.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Xiahou Dun posted:

Did you just actually say that she was asking for it.

Is that a thing you just typed with your human hands.

I'm pretty sure that it is a thing that Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert wrote, yes

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 27 days!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqBEMza8msw

Complications
Jun 19, 2014



Grandpa Palpatine posted:

Does anyone know what kind of instruments are played during "Armada" theme when the Sardaukar show up?

It sounds like motherfucking distorted bagpipes or some poo poo -- if that's even possible.

Starting right here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HzOPVIqaU#t=181s

It sounded more like distorted digeridoos or similar long wood flutes to me. It's not got the underlying dual-tone of a bagpipe.

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT





It's just a fancy zimmer synth pad

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 27 days!


Dr. Fishopolis posted:

It's just a fancy zimmer synth pad

hopefully you're shitposting, but those samples have to come from somewhere!

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT





No, they don't! Layer a couple swirly pads with a slow LFO, throw it through distortion and a high pass filter, hit it with a lil reverb and baby you got a zimmer stew goin

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR

🔊😴


It might have been a reed organ or something run through distortion. Lots of drone notes in there.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Dr. Fishopolis posted:

Nothing at all like Yueh. As far as Thufir knew, the royal bloodline of House Atreides was wiped out. He didn't owe the Fremen anything, as far as he was concerned he wasn't betraying anyone except the Harkonnen.

It's definitely a bit like Yueh, who also became an agent of the harkonens solely to try and get revenge on them. Uh I never brought up the fremen, nor argued he knew Paul was alive?

Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006


Gaj posted:

I liked it, but it work better as a mini-series or a perfectly done HBO series. We got the first act of the first book, and how many years will it take to get act 2?

The Dune miniseries that came out in 2000 will be shorter than these two movies.

AllenFarnsworthIV
Apr 12, 2021


Blood Boils posted:

It's definitely a bit like Yueh, who also became an agent of the harkonens solely to try and get revenge on them. Uh I never brought up the fremen, nor argued he knew Paul was alive?

He became an agent of the Harkonens to save his wife. Totally different.

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veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

2 fast 2 Hanwei Practical XL Katana Unveiling


The second the credits rolled on Dune I went on Amazon and bought BR2049 4K Blu Ray. Only UHD blu ray I have ever bought and Dune will probably be the second. Just rewatched it and man BR2049 whips rear end.

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