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Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


The Atreides are in good guy colors from a Bedouin perspective.

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Nightmare Cinema
Apr 4, 2020

No.

Re-timed color photos:

















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oauF0jXcAq8

Mmmmmmmm that's good Dune colors.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


Someone please add mattresses to the background of every shot.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


I seriously love Liet Kynes.

Although I do still wish to see Jodo as the insane father vision.

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



Neo Rasa posted:

I mean yeah no poo poo but I'm talking about how the characters are dressed and what Herbert has that say about them or not in the book.


The way Duke Leto is portrayed in this way is one of the really cool things in the book to me. You totally see the charisma he has and how on the surface he's this super popular leader to the point where even the Emperor is directly concerned. But at the same time you don't get to the point where an emperor is concerned about you taking over by not being a huge rear end in a top hat on some levels, and I liked the little bits that get dropped as the story goes on like how it was the Duke who declared the vendetta against the Harkonnens, and how he had a small group in his army that were as well trained as the Sardaukar which he could potentially have united the other houses under,, etc. And I like that the minute he sets foot on Arrakis he's already making moves to be a man of the people while backdoor working to get the Fremen in his pocket or otherwise allied with him any way he can.

And both the Duke and the Baron are equally effective in that way, I forget if it's in a flashback in a later book or the original but there's definitely a point where Leto points out (or "thinks aloud") that the Baron's a master schemer and the floating around loud fat man thing is an effective way to get people to underestimate him and dismiss him as a bloviating chump. And to an extent, the Baron IS an egomaniac, but it says a lot about Leto's man of the people facade that that's how he immediately sees the Baron, but also drinks his own Kool-Aid and fails to work out what's going on with Yueh.

Another small bit I love is when the Baron's mulling over anecdotes about Leto keeping the head of the bull that killed his ancestor and stuff and has an almost serial killer profiler light bulb flicks on kind of moment where he gets shaken about what kind of lunatics the Atreides are.

There's also the great bit where Leto is talking about how spice-plastic is really good for film stock, and that propoganda is really important to make sure everybody knows how caring and just the Atreides are. And how the constant low level of spice in the food prevents them from putting drugs or poison in the water supply. He jokes how Arrakis keeps them honest and noble.

Or at least, you really hope that he's joking.

It reminds me of one of the Culture books. One of the Minds (super powerful friendly AIs running the show) uncovers a potential evil conspiracy by other Minds, and goes into a complete meltdown at the idea that the only reason Minds are fun-loving omnibenovelant super-friends is because it works. They've never needed to be otherwise. Their morals might be entirely pragmatic, which makes them almost worthless.

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.



There's that great line where Duke Leto tells Paul something like, "our propaganda corps are among the best."

I don't think he's drinking his own Kool-Aid with regard to Yueh, though. No one gets what's going on with Yueh because everyone believes that Suk conditioning is absolute. Even the Baron's goons are surprised that he was able to turn Yueh, and they go on to spread the story that Yueh was a fraud and fake Suk doctor in part because that's more believable than someone figuring out a way to break Suk conditioning.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


ferbert posted:

Paul recognized the death thoughts in his father's words, spoke quickly: "Nothing's going to happen to you, sir. The - "

"Be silent, Son."

Paul stared at his father's back, seeing the fatigue in the angle of the neck, in the line of the shoulders, in the slow movements.

"You're just tired, Father."

"I am tired," the Duke agreed. "I'm morally tired. The melancholy degeneration of the Great Houses has afflicted me at last, perhaps. And we were such strong people once."

Paul spoke in quick anger: "Our House hasn't degenerated!"

"Hasn't it?"

The Duke turned, faced his son, revealing dark circles beneath hard eyes, a cynical twist of mouth. "I should wed your mother, make her my Duchess. Yet - my unwedded state gives some Houses hope they may yet ally with me through their marriageable daughters." He shrugged. "So, I. . . . "

"Mother has explained this to me."

"Nothing wins more loyalty for a leader than an air of bravura," the Duke said. "I, therefore, cultivate an air of bravura."

"You lead well," Paul protested. "You govern well. Men follow you willingly and love you."

"My propaganda corps is one of the finest," the Duke said. Again, he turned to stare out at the basin. "There's greater possibility for us here on Arrakis than the Imperium could ever suspect. Yet sometimes I think it'd have been better if we'd run for it, gone renegade. Sometimes I wish we could sink back into anonymity among the people, become less exposed to. . . . "

"Father!"

"Yes, I am tired," the Duke said. "Did you know we're using spice residue as raw material and already have our own factory to manufacture filmbase?"

"Sir?"

"We mustn't run short of filmbase," the Duke said. "Else, how could we flood village and city with our information? The people must learn how well I govern them. How would they know if we didn't tell them?"

"You should get some rest," Paul said.

Again, the Duke faced his son. "Arrakis has another advantage I almost forgot to mention. Spice is in everything here. You breathe it and eat it in almost everything. And I find that this imparts a certain natural immunity to some of the most common poisons of the Assassins' Handbook. And the need to watch every drop of water puts all food production - yeast culture, hydroponics, chemavit, everything - under the strictest surveillance. We cannot kill off large segments of our population with poison - and we cannot be attacked this way, either. Arrakis makes us moral and ethical."

Paul started to speak, but the Duke cut him off, saying: "I have to have someone I can say these things to, Son." He sighed, glanced back at the dry landscape where even the flowers were gone now - trampled by the dew gatherers, wilted under the early sun.

"On Caladan, we ruled with sea and air power," the Duke said. "Here, we must scrabble for desert power. This is your inheritance, Paul. What is to become of you if anything happens to me? You'll not be a renegade House, but a guerrilla House - running, hunted."

Paul groped for words, could find nothing to say. He had never seen his father this despondent.

"To hold Arrakis," the Duke said, "one is faced with decisions that may cost one his self-respect." He pointed out the window to the Atreides green and black banner hanging limply from a staff at the edge of the landing field. "That honorable banner could come to mean many evil things."

Paul swallowed in a dry throat. His father's words carried futility, a sense of fatalism that left the boy with an empty feeling in his chest.

The Duke took an antifatigue tablet from a pocket, gulped it dry. "Power and fear," he said. "The tools of statecraft. I must order new emphasis on guerrilla training for you. That filmclip there - they call you 'Mahdi' - 'Lisan al-Gaib' - as a last resort, you might capitalize on that."

Paul stared at his father, watching the shoulders straighten as the tablet did its work, but remembering the words of fear and doubt.

WarMECH
Dec 23, 2004


Duke Leto: "lol good luck trying to break Suk Imperial Conditioning, it's impossible!"

*Piter de Vries tortures Yueh's wife which breaks him easily*

Duke Leto: "Ah! Well. Nevertheless,"

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

I'm Peter Graves, and I was wondering if you could direct me to the natatorium, as I'm attending a Scuderia Ferrari team-building exercise. Thank you. I'm Peter Graves.


Don't you mean "Ahhhhhhh-h-h-h-h"?

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

PeterWeller posted:

There's that great line where Duke Leto tells Paul something like, "our propaganda corps are among the best."

I don't think he's drinking his own Kool-Aid with regard to Yueh, though. No one gets what's going on with Yueh because everyone believes that Suk conditioning is absolute. Even the Baron's goons are surprised that he was able to turn Yueh, and they go on to spread the story that Yueh was a fraud and fake Suk doctor in part because that's more believable than someone figuring out a way to break Suk conditioning.

I don't know, I feel like he does to an extent. NO ONE CAN BREAK THE SUK CONDITIONING! Meanwhile look at the reputation the Fremen have at the beginning of the book and how easily he and Duncan make inroads with them. With Yueh breaking so fast, to me "Suk conditioning is absolute" is itself some bullshit propaganda. So I think it's the opposite, they spread the word with the mindset that no REAL Suk doctor would do that. Like by the time they actually get there I think it's more that he's just tired of the life and lets his guard down a bit more than he might normally. He seems to realize a lot of this all at once IIRC.

EDIT: e;fb

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Apr 17, 2020

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.



Neo Rasa posted:

I don't know, I feel like he does to an extent. NO ONE CAN BREAK THE SUK CONDITIONING! Meanwhile look at the reputation the Fremen have at the beginning of the book and how easily he and Duncan make inroads with them. With Yueh breaking so fast, to me "Suk conditioning is absolute" is itself some bullshit propaganda. So I think it's the opposite, they spread the word with the mindset that no REAL Suk doctor would do that. Like by the time they actually get there I think it's more that he's just tired of the life and lets his guard down a bit more than he might normally. He seems to realize a lot of this all at once IIRC.

EDIT: e;fb

Yeah, it's fair to say that Suk conditioning may be as much a myth as everything else. That's not the same, though, as Duke Leto buying into his own propaganda.

But I don't think it's fair to say Yueh broke quickly. I get the impression that Piter had been working on him for a while. And he didn't break the way Piter expected. Yueh doesn't betray the Atreides to save Wanna. He's almost certain she's already dead. He betrays the Atreides to turn them into the vehicles for his vengeance against the Baron and Piter for torturing and killing Wanna. He gives Duke Leto the tooth. He gives Paul and Jessica the equipment they need to survive the desert and meet the Fremen. And there's a sense that he's motivated by the same fatalism that has struck Duke Leto. "You were dead anyway, my poor Duke," he says.

And yeah, the lie they spread about Yueh serves to protect the Suk school's interests as much as it serves the Baron's.

And also yeah, Duke Leto is definitely tired and letting his guard down. He's clearly aware that he's walking into a trap and is resigned to his death.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


Kassad
Nov 11, 2005

It's about time.


Kull wahad!

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:


100% HUMAN

Chubby Henparty
Aug 13, 2007





Another nice Baron moment: "christ, feyd. Stop trying to off me for one second and consider all of this is all for you"

That and head-baron didn't really seem that bad to have on tap, if you were already half-gone anyway.

Kassad
Nov 11, 2005

It's about time.


There's also this bit when Leto first appears in the book and he almost gives a standard pep talk to Paul before catching himself:

quote:

The Duke forced himself to the casual gesture, sat down on a corner of the table, smiled. A whole pattern of conversation welled up in his mind -- the kind of thing he might use to dispel the vapors in his men before a battle. The pattern froze before it could be vocalized, confronted by the single thought: This is my son.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


Yeah Leto Paul and Leto II all kinda go through similar arcs in like "wait power and majesty kinda suck let me off the ride" but only Leto II has the means and the will to break the system over his knee. Uh, worm-hump.

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


The book gave me the impression that the Baron's plot wouldn't have worked on the Duke Leto and his Master of Assassins of like 10 years earlier, but both guys are clearly not on their A games anymore. Leto is starting to buckle under the weight of his responsibility and Hawat is maybe just getting too old for this poo poo. So the Duke is fatalistically going through the motions while suspecting it's all hosed, while the Mentat Master of Assassins and all-around genius badass devious motherfucker is starting to get panicky about how he's lost his edge in his old age just as poo poo's getting real. Meanwhile Paul is primed to pick up the slack... in the long term, but not really in time for the crisis because his dad's still having to explain basic realpolitik poo poo to him.

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.



Kassad posted:

There's also this bit when Leto first appears in the book and he almost gives a standard pep talk to Paul before catching himself:

That part is also fodder for one of the best running jokes in National Lampoon's Doon where characters keep noting their relation to other characters like it's some profound revelation.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



The exact same images now in hot hot HD in case you wanted to make sure that Jason Momoa didn't have a thin veneer of stubble on his babyface.

Prolonged Panorama
Dec 21, 2007
Holy hookrat Sally smoking crack in the alley!







I also took a crack at grading one of the (non HD! :argh:) promo images. Tried to clean up the digital noise in the original and cropped to a more typical film ratio.

David D. Davidson
Nov 17, 2012

Orca lady?

I'm still not entirely sold on Momoa.
Dude's hot. But he needs to be "So hot women cum just by watching him scale a cliff" hot.

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003


Tim Blake Nelson was apparently double-booked but was the first choice for sexiest Duncan

DAD NO
Sep 6, 2011

:nsacloud::downsa::nsacloud::downsa:
:downsa::nsacloud::downsa::nsacloud:
:nsacloud::downsa::nsacloud::downsa:
:downsa::nsacloud::downsa::nsacloud:


i'm really afraid of the changes they're making to this adaptation. like how they're changing baron harkonnen from a madman spice addict to a more calculated bond-style villain. but that could work out okay all things considered.
i guess what i'm really worried about is the media completely boycotting this film and making the studio give up on producing the second part. i can already see the reviews "3/10 this is nazi propaganda, everyone is fighting for a drug to turn their eyes blue and their hair yellow!!" :hitler:

i really hope that this doesn't happen. but this franchise is cursed :tinfoil:
(if u don't know a dune film was worked on during the 70s but all the special effects people went to work on star wars instead).

wizardofloneliness
Dec 30, 2008



David D. Davidson posted:

I'm still not entirely sold on Momoa.
Dude's hot. But he needs to be "So hot women cum just by watching him scale a cliff" hot.

He's there.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."



:hmmyes:

He very much is.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


David D. Davidson posted:

I'm still not entirely sold on Momoa.
Dude's hot. But he needs to be "So hot women cum just by watching him scale a cliff" hot.

I mean, I'm not really sure who you could pick who would be better for that than Momoa. Maybe Idris Elba?

The Cameo
Jan 20, 2005




Yeah, uh, you’ve never talked to a woman about Jason Momoa if you don’t think the dude crossed the “spontaneous women’s orgasm” hotness threshold a long, long time ago.

I remember mentioning to a friend that “well Momoa shows his butt” in that lovely rear end Conan remake and she instantly responded with “I’m seeing this movie ASAP and I don’t give a poo poo how bad the rest of it is”

Michael Fassbender has a similar effect, when I went and saw Shame with my friends the only other people in the theater were three college-age women who explicitly mentioned they were there to see the Little Fassbender on a big screen

They were... in a less jolly mood when the movie finished

davidspackage
May 16, 2007



Nap Ghost

DAD NO posted:

i'm really afraid of the changes they're making to this adaptation. like how they're changing baron harkonnen from a madman spice addict to a more calculated bond-style villain. but that could work out okay all things considered.

"Madman spice addict" isn't really a fitting description on the Baron. He was only really a madman in the Lynch version.

Bugblatter
Aug 4, 2003
Belgium!

davidspackage posted:

"Madman spice addict" isn't really a fitting description on the Baron. He was only really a madman in the Lynch version.

Yeah, in the books he’s always going on about intricate “plans within plans,” disdains others for less than shrewd indulgences, and what little “craziness” he does exhibit is a ruse to distract from his actual intentions. He’s very much a meticulously plotting mastermind in the novel. He indulges his sadism a bit too much when he captures Leto, but otherwise is always very aware and calculating.

A lot of the early criticism I’m reading seems to be from people forming their ideas of Dune either from Lynch and Jodorowsky’s designs or the cookiness of the later books. But the first two books are a lot more grounded and the few visual descriptions they give tend to be very austere. Halls carved of stone, structures impressive for their size rather than ornamentation. This brutalist take seems fitting.

Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Apr 19, 2020

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



DAD NO posted:

i'm really afraid of the changes they're making to this adaptation. like how they're changing baron harkonnen from a madman spice addict to a more calculated bond-style villain. but that could work out okay all things considered.

Where is this coming from

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012


Would alexander skarsgaard work as feyd rautha?

vuk83 fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Apr 19, 2020

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003


DAD NO posted:

i can already see the reviews "3/10 this is nazi propaganda, everyone is fighting for a drug to turn their eyes blue and their hair yellow!!" :hitler:

Stared at this for a full minute and have no idea what it means. It’s both weirdly wrong about Dune and weirdly wrong about Nazism

Clipperton
Dec 20, 2011


Grimey Drawer

vuk83 posted:

Would alexander skarsgaard work as feyd rautha?

I'd prefer Bill tbh

the_enduser
May 1, 2006

They say the user lives outside the net.





Jewmanji posted:

Stared at this for a full minute and have no idea what it means. It’s both weirdly wrong about Dune and weirdly wrong about Nazism

Maybe they got Dragonball Z and Sayian culture mixed up. Lol

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


vuk83 posted:

Would alexander skarsgaard work as feyd rautha?

Somebody said cast Henry Cavill and that honestly sounds like an inspired cast against type. He's a perfect savior, a propaganda coup.

Prolonged Panorama
Dec 21, 2007
Holy hookrat Sally smoking crack in the alley!





I wouldn't mind that, but I think it's somewhat important that Feyd be at least in the same generation as Paul. He's a twisted mirror to Paul, the embodiment of why the system has to burn down; its inevitable final champion. If he's too much older I don't think that hits as hard.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:


Soiled Meat

Yeah, the book talks about how Jessica was supposed to give Leto a daughter instead of Paul, who would have gone on to be wedded to Feyd to squash the Atredies - Harkonnen beef. So I always pictured Paul and Feyd to be fairly close in age, though obviously human history is full of statecraft marriages with big differences in age.

Speaking of age, there's a little part of me that thinks Bautista might be too old to play Rabban. He's got the build and I've really liked him in other movies, but while we're talking about Feyd's age I also always pictured Rabban to be not that much older than his cousin.

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



I desperately wish there were more good Dune books but I quit reading after book 2 because I didn't even particularly like that one.

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Prolonged Panorama
Dec 21, 2007
Holy hookrat Sally smoking crack in the alley!





Paul is 15 at the start, and the introduction of Feyd calls him a "youth of about sixteen years." They're very close in age.

In the Appendix, we get an exact birth year for Rabban; he's 59 at the start of the novel, eight years older than the Duke, and two years older than Shaddam IV. But with the spice they should all look somewhat below middle age.

edit: then again, Irulan says her father is 71 when he shows her the ego-likeness of the Duke and wishes she could have been old enough to have married him (which happens years before the events of the novel). So Frank wasn't super careful about his dates or ages.

Prolonged Panorama fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 20, 2020

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