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Simiain
Dec 13, 2005

"BAM! The ole fork in the eye!!"

trucutru posted:

Just because Villeneuve is know for a very specific color usage in his previous films doesn't mean that he has to continue doing so. If he were to direct the Wizard of Oz and chose to use a drab palette so that both the ruby slippers and emerald city were as desaturated as this thing that would also be questionable.


OK, but you also say

trucutru posted:

If I didn't see that Villeneuve was directing the movie that trailer would have killed any theoretical hype I would have for it.

So which is it? Are you excited that Villeneuve is making a Villeneuve film, or would you rather he not? Because it sounds to me like you're hype for a new Villeneuve film so long as he doesnt do the things that he did to make the movies that justify this hype in the first place.

I get what youre saying, this is pretty far removed from Jodorowsky's Dune, but.....Villeneuve is gonna Villeneuve, I think.

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trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Simiain posted:

OK, but you also say


So which is it? Are you excited that Villeneuve is making a Villeneuve film, or would you rather he not? Because it sounds to me like you're hype for a new Villeneuve film so long as he doesnt do the things that he did to make the movies that justify this hype in the first place.

I get what youre saying, this is pretty far removed from Jodorowsky's Dune, but.....Villeneuve is gonna Villeneuve, I think.

Villeneuve films are not defined entirely by their looks. I like plenty of other aspects of his direction (as well as the projects he chooses to direct), which is why even if that trailer visually looks (to me) like poo poo that doesn't fit the setting, I am willing to believe it will be a quality film.

Hashtag Banterzone
Dec 8, 2005


Lifetime Winner of the willkill4food Honorary Bad Posting Award in PWM

The Bene Gesserit, the Spacing Guild, the Fremen, and the Atreides were always going to be pretty drab and monochrome. Color doesn't really fit their vibe.

Only the Harkonnen can I really picture with opulent and vibrant colors to show their gluttony and avarice, but I understand that bad guys = black clothing. Also I don't remember anything being mentioned in the book

FBS
Apr 27, 2015

The real fun of living wisely is that you get to be smug about it.



if anybody is gonna be pimped out it will be the Imperials

Starks
Sep 24, 2006



Simiain posted:

I mean, as opposed to what, the Wizard of Oz technicolor of Arrival or Sicario or bloody Bladerunner???

People seem to be hyped or willing to forgive it because its Villeneuve, but at the same time worried about the most distinctively Villeneuve aspect of it.

As I said before 2049 is easily his most colourful film and also his most watched so it's not shocking people are surprised. During daytime scenes his colours are muted even when well-lit and sunny, during night time scenes it's very heavy on the shadows and lots of silhouettes.

Sicario was full of stuff like this:

(great scene)



Arrival (these are admittedly extremely cherry-picked since I only had the trailer to go off of):





Prisoners was a little brighter but still had a lot of silhouette shots and very muted colors.




Enemy:


I think the Las Vegas scene in Blade Runner is what most people pictured when they thought about Dune, so I don't think it's shocking that they are upset. But I think based on his body of work that the answer to "I can barely see the worm" is "he doesn't really want you to", and you can think that's bad or good but it's intentional.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I mean the Atreides in Lynch's film had this nice kinda-warm Dark Green look, sort of an overall baroque aesthetic. You'd almost want Caladan to look very homey and comfortable to contrast with how uninviting and hostile Arrakis is.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

Plague Champion


Do we also hate the generally dark and drab look of the Lynch movie? Cause everyone wears black in that and itís generally brown/black.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

bawfuls posted:

Do we also hate the generally dark and drab look of the Lynch movie? Cause everyone wears black in that and itís generally brown/black.

I feel like the earthiness of that is a lot more rich and warm. There's not as much slate-gray.

Also, the flesh tones in Lynch's film feel richer, while everyone in this trailer looks a little washed out. Stop taking the blood out of people's faces dangit.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Hashtag Banterzone posted:

The Bene Gesserit, the Spacing Guild, the Fremen, and the Atreides were always going to be pretty drab and monochrome. Color doesn't really fit their vibe.

Only the Harkonnen can I really picture with opulent and vibrant colors to show their gluttony and avarice, but I understand that bad guys = black clothing. Also I don't remember anything being mentioned in the book

Look at this dude:



Does he seem like a weapons master in the far future or a modern guy in slacks and a french breton shirt with a large fitbit at a posh hotel?

bawfuls posted:

Do we also hate the generally dark and drab look of the Lynch movie? Cause everyone wears black in that and itís generally brown/black.

Nah, they may be wearing black lifesaver vests but they pop. And the palette is quite warm.

trucutru fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Sep 10, 2020

net cafe scandal
Mar 18, 2011



I think thats the best trailer Ive seen since the Man of Steel "they will join you in the sun" masterpiece.

Prolonged Panorama
Dec 21, 2007
Holy hookrat Sally smoking crack in the alley!





trucutru posted:

This extends to other choices like clothing, etc. Most of the non-fremen characters in the book are a bunch of royalty, feudal warlords, their retainers, and witches. I don't have the imagination to visualize how those sort of characters would look thousands of years into the future but I do know that they would look, if not gaudy (for our standards), interesting as gently caress. What is the point of being given a setting that gives you a shitload of freedom to let the imagination go wild if you're going to go for a boring aesthetic? a boring aesthetic that doesn't fit the setting.

Reposting from earlier: The costumes we've seen are perfectly in line with the descriptions in the novel: Paul wears a "semiformal jacket" with a breast pocket. Lady Fenring wears a plain beige gown. Feyd wears a tunic and bellbottoms. Lots of robes and dresses, many of them plain. Of course there's plenty of ways to execute even the simplest fashion staples, but the impression isn't particularly otherworldly.

The (visual) weirdness some people are craving is going to come (rightly) from the Harkonnens and the Imperial court. See the Baron emerging form some sort of bath, and the weirdly pale Rabban. I imagine the Emperor and his court will be more ornate and baroque than what we've seen so far.

Then there's this:

I think that's Jessica? As they land on Arrakis. So there are going to be some more out-there costumes. They're showing the stuff with the broadest appeal first.

Also keep in mind that the color grading shown here isn't final - trailers are graded separately, by a different team, and with considerations like scene 3 and scene 37 being shown back to back, and edited to seem like one coherent thing when they aren't. The simplest way to match colors in that situation is to bring everything closer to neutral gray; to desaturate.

But yeah Denis keeps things relatively muted in general, so when the color pops it punches you in the face. I love his visual style.

Cheap Trick
Jan 4, 2007



The trailer's got me really hyped for the film. Hoping for a quick release to Blu-ray or streaming.

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





When I read DUNE as a kid I'd imagined that the Atreides wore semi-formal military inspired dress, sort of nautical-futurism, harkening back to TE Lawrence and the colonial role they play. Harkonnen were more ornate, dressed in a more baroque or even victorian style - more cummerband and pocketwatch, lots of gold. Fremen I'd imagined wearing black thawb with accessories by g-shock.

Atreides wearing techno armor isn't my choice, but it totally works.

Prolonged Panorama
Dec 21, 2007
Holy hookrat Sally smoking crack in the alley!





trucutru posted:

Look at this dude:

Does he seem like a weapons master in the far future or a modern guy in slacks and a french breton shirt with a large fitbit at a posh hotel?

He looks like an older soldier wearing the shirt that goes under his dress uniform. Because he's stripped down for a training bout.



Do these look like two neo-neo-feudal nobles training blades in their future castle? Does the vibrating stack of holographic doubles that appears when they touch give a hint that they're not in our present or past? I say yes.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


Prolonged Priapism posted:

He looks like an older soldier wearing the shirt that goes under his dress uniform. Because he's stripped down for a training bout.



Do these look like two neo-neo-feudal nobles training blades in their future castle?

No. They don't, that's the issue I have. Sure, they have personal sci-fi shields, but otherwise they don't look like dudes in the far future at all to me. And even more so since we're talking about a neo-feudal future, there is even less reason for them to look so "normal".

Starks
Sep 24, 2006



trucutru posted:

Look at this dude:



Does he seem like a weapons master in the far future or a modern guy in slacks and a french breton shirt with a large fitbit at a posh hotel?

Thatís really bad lol

Not all most of the costuming was not this egregious though. I didnít mind all the armour but that T-shirt is dumb as hell

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Hashtag Banterzone posted:

The Bene Gesserit, the Spacing Guild, the Fremen, and the Atreides were always going to be pretty drab and monochrome. Color doesn't really fit their vibe.

Only the Harkonnen can I really picture with opulent and vibrant colors to show their gluttony and avarice, but I understand that bad guys = black clothing. Also I don't remember anything being mentioned in the book

The Harkonnen colors/style are bright and gaudy, and even their banner specifically is a bright blue and white griffon in the book. I love what we've seen of the Bene Gesserit so far in the trailer and that room, it's :perfect: . The Atreides colors are black/red/dark green in the book. But it feels weird to have every faction in dark grey/black AND have such a cold palette going by the trailer when in the book, each has a "house language" also. Even if it's not super detailed about it you really got this feeling that each house as each ruled a world would have their own unique style and culture and aesthetic from the environment of their planet like what we learn of the Atreides early on. So while I'm not a "What if Man of Steel was in color" person if just about everyone in the flick is rocking muted dark gray/black it is kind of a disservice.

Prolonged Panorama
Dec 21, 2007
Holy hookrat Sally smoking crack in the alley!







My immediate thought on seeing Paul here was this, from Rob Roy:



Nothing like identical but it's the same vibe to me - a well used, working undershirt. If I saw Chalamet on the street in that I'd think homeless (same for Neeson), but in indoor-bladefight context it feels perfectly future-feudal to me.

Wizchine
Sep 17, 2007

Television is the retina
of the mind's eye.


So mankind in the future is going to forgo the functionality of the basic t-shirt for something with diagonal zippers and at least 15 pieces of flair? I'd say wait for pictures of the nobility in their formal wear before despairing that Tarsem didn't direct.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"


The lady saw this trailer and said "WHAT IS DUNE?!?" and then I sat her down and explained the Dune universe to her over the course of an hour to the best of my ability.

Now she wants to watch Dune and I am hype AF to introduce her to the Lynch movie.

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


I don't think austere is a terrible choice for material like this, and some stuff looked pretty rad anyway (the Sardaukar (?) troopers dropping in front of the wall, Raban & the Baron), but a 15,000 years into the future feudal pre-capitalist spacefaring society is an excuse to go apeshit.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

The entire point is that it isn't. It's staid and boring and unimaginative and dying. That's quite literally the antagonist of the novels, the stagnation of human civilization, and trying to avoid it's inevitable extinction. And most everything is described in a fairly plain and not particular weird style. You get a little weirder with some of the technology, like the dragonfly ships and the navigators and such, but the average noble or soldier? There's absolutely nothing colorful or intriguing about how they look.

If it looks cool you probably hosed up, because your main reaction should be.....well, why doesn't this all look cooler?

Capntastic
Jan 13, 2005

A dog begins eating a dusty old coil of rope but there's a nail in it.



I'm fairly certain at no point are the ultra-badass Sardaukar deathtroops from hellworld ever described visually at all. Because it's not important to their function in the story.

But film is a visual medium, so,

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Mulva posted:

The entire point is that it isn't. It's staid and boring and unimaginative and dying. That's quite literally the antagonist of the novels, the stagnation of human civilization, and trying to avoid it's inevitable extinction.

I mean, decadence can look cool as poo poo.

Drunk in Space
Dec 1, 2009


I know a lot of people like to poo poo on the 2000 miniseries (for good reason), but I did actually really like how utterly outrageous some of the costumes were, like how almost every noble has to wear a giant fan on their head, or Feyd with the triangle kite thing strapped to his back, you know, just because. They also struck a good contrast in showing how relatively down-to-earth and spartan the Atreides were compared to the more decadent Harkonnen.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

The miniseries had an interesting aesthetic, even if it felt like they didn't always have the resources to realize it.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



I certainly don't think it looks bad, and it fits with a lot of Villeneuve's pre-BR 2049 movies, but compared to that movie in particular, I do think it looks drab and dark and dull.

I do not get the sense that this is an alien desert planet. I get the sense that they went to a desert on Earth and filmed it in the most straightforward way they could. Again, this is not me saying it looks bad, but I do think the shots of Arrakis look too mundane and unremarkable for what is supposed to be one of the most hostile places in the galaxy. I'm not even really getting any sort of vibe from it.

Which, yes, that is disappointing considering BR 2049 is one of the most visually striking movies I've seen in the past decade. But it's just a trailer so who knows.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



4000 Dollar Suit posted:

I'm still excited but that trailer had a bit of a YA movie vibe to me.

It's a Reluctant Chosen One sci-fi story centered on a royal pretty boy trying to navigate the machinations of powers far larger than himself, complete with special fighting styles, Friends To The End, and big action set pieces. Sci-fi has been pillaging from Dune for years and YA sci-fi is no exception, so the resemblance was inevitable to some degree.

Yadoppsi
May 10, 2009


These stillsuits are so blegh, especially the obvious motercycle gloves. :raise:

Hemp Knight
Sep 26, 2004


Capntastic posted:

I'm fairly certain at no point are the ultra-badass Sardaukar deathtroops from hellworld ever described visually at all. Because it's not important to their function in the story.

But film is a visual medium, so,

I think the only description of them in the book is when a captured Sardaukar is brought to Paul, and is described as blond and blue eyed, which seems to be typical of Sardaukar officers. As such, Iíve always pictured the Sardaukar as Nordic or Aryan looking, in contrast to the Arabic looking Fremen or Greek/Mediterranean Atreides..

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





wonder if there'll be any backlash for this movie appropriating a lot from arab cultures

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019
:discourse:


Capntastic posted:

I'm fairly certain at no point are the ultra-badass Sardaukar deathtroops from hellworld ever described visually at all. Because it's not important to their function in the story.

But film is a visual medium, so,

The Sardaukar are also disguised as Harkonnen troops, which is something people seem to keep forgetting when they complain they don't look like Space Marines or whatever.

SixFigureSandwich
Oct 30, 2004


Exciting Lemon

Hemp Knight posted:

I think the only description of them in the book is when a captured Sardaukar is brought to Paul, and is described as blond and blue eyed, which seems to be typical of Sardaukar officers. As such, Iíve always pictured the Sardaukar as Nordic or Aryan looking, in contrast to the Arabic looking Fremen or Greek/Mediterranean Atreides..

Given the Sardaukar's origins I don't think that guy is supposed to be specifically representative though. They are the survivors of the imperial prison colonies, so it seems unlikely that they are of one particular race or culture

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky, And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by

u brexit ukip it posted:

Given the Sardaukar's origins I don't think that guy is supposed to be specifically representative though. They are the survivors of the imperial prison colonies, so it seems unlikely that they are of one particular race or culture

The loose analogy is that they're German 'military advisors' to the Ottoman Empire helping them to fight Laurence of Arabia.

e: also the Sardukar being Space Marines would be missing the point. Herbert is very openly saying in the book 'good soldiers aren't heroic or noble, the most fearsome soldier would be someone who's been traumatised from birth by an environment that's trying to kill them, because that's how you end up with someone utterly ruthless and indifferent to death, and that's what a 'good' soldier is'.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Sep 10, 2020

Yadoppsi
May 10, 2009


well why not posted:

wonder if there'll be any backlash for this movie appropriating a lot from arab cultures

It actually seems like they are backing away from alot of the Islamic elements of the book. I hope its just a misdirect for the trailers and sneak peaks.

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest


Hakkesshu posted:

I certainly don't think it looks bad, and it fits with a lot of Villeneuve's pre-BR 2049 movies, but compared to that movie in particular, I do think it looks drab and dark and dull.

I do not get the sense that this is an alien desert planet. I get the sense that they went to a desert on Earth and filmed it in the most straightforward way they could. Again, this is not me saying it looks bad, but I do think the shots of Arrakis look too mundane and unremarkable for what is supposed to be one of the most hostile places in the galaxy. I'm not even really getting any sort of vibe from it.

Which, yes, that is disappointing considering BR 2049 is one of the most visually striking movies I've seen in the past decade. But it's just a trailer so who knows.

To be fair, you probably bitched at the 2049 trailer, too

E: Also lol at the guy who tried to describe a costume in this movie as a dude with a fitbit in a hotel. Holy poo poo man. What a joyless nerd you are man

Firstborn fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Sep 10, 2020

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting


Fallen Rib

AwkwardKnob posted:

Yes! It seems like the Harkonnens are all kind of pale and ghostly looking

THey live on an industrial hell world with no sky.

Of course they look like pale molemen, and have weird baths to help protect their skin from the desert.

Bubbacub
Apr 17, 2001



Prolonged Priapism posted:

Also keep in mind that the color grading shown here isn't final - trailers are graded separately, by a different team, and with considerations like scene 3 and scene 37 being shown back to back, and edited to seem like one coherent thing when they aren't. The simplest way to match colors in that situation is to bring everything closer to neutral gray; to desaturate.

But yeah Denis keeps things relatively muted in general, so when the color pops it punches you in the face. I love his visual style.

Aren't glowglobes orange? I bet cave interiors are going to be lit really warmly to contrast with the outdoors.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



Firstborn posted:

To be fair, you probably bitched at the 2049 trailer, too

No I did not, what a bizarre thing to say

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Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009



Firstborn posted:

To be fair, you probably bitched at the 2049 trailer, too
I'm not that guy, but from the 2049 trailer I saw I expected a crappy action movie that shat on everything about the original. Luckily that was what I was in the mood for and went into the cinema expecting something akin to the RoboCop or Total Recall remakes.

Suffice to say my mind was goddamn blown.

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