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Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Strom Cuzewon posted:

I figure the "bring peace to Arrakis" is just them actually giving a reason for the Atreides to be on Arrakis. Because I swear the book doesn't actually give a public justification for the Emperor giving them Arrakis. It's just "oh we're moving to Dune now". And we know, and they know, that it's because he wants to betray the gently caress out of them, but obviously the Emperor can't come out and say that.

It could also be a way to simplify the background space-politics - we can establish that the Emperor's rule isn't doing great, and that the Atreides are a respected military power, which obviously becomes really important later on.

Not a public reason but the Emperor's stated reason was because the Beast's oppressive rule had been disruptive and the Duke would bring order if I'm remembering right which would explain "bring peace to Arrakis".

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Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003



Strom Cuzewon posted:

Because I swear the book doesn't actually give a public justification for the Emperor giving them Arrakis. It's just "oh we're moving to Dune now".

It was typical in feudal times for the monarch to rotate the duchys or what have you, either as a political currency amongst his aristocrats or as a form of musical chairs. It was basically favor-trading. Shaddam has inward motives and outward motives. The outward motive is that each house basically gets a turn managing Arrakis because itís too lucrative to become a permanent fief of any one house

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


[futuristic lamentation music]

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Groovelord Neato posted:

Not a public reason but the Emperor's stated reason was because the Beast's oppressive rule had been disruptive and the Duke would bring order if I'm remembering right which would explain "bring peace to Arrakis".

Yeah everyone wants the spice to flow better

But the emperor knows that the baron used Rabban to be distruptive on purpose, so that he could punish him and reward Leto with a trap he couldn't refuse, because the emperor also wants the Duke gone cuz he's a potential usurper

Re: new trailer

Still not sold on the plainness of the costumes but it's obviously supposed to reflect the stark landscapes as well as modern irl clothes & body armour so w/e and everything else looks pretty cool

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003



Blood Boils posted:

Still not sold on the plainness of the costumes but it's obviously supposed to reflect the stark landscapes as well as modern irl clothes & body armour so w/e and everything else looks pretty cool

Hopefully some of the Bene Gesserit will get the Padme Amidala treatment, costume-wise.

Iím mostly fine with it, but I do hope the initial interactions between the Fremen and the Atreides (ie Stilgar showing up at Arrakeen) give some opportunities for strong contrasts, because itís actually not super obvious from the trailers whether youíre sometimes looking at Fremen, Atreides, Sardauker, etc

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...



Jewmanji posted:

It was typical in feudal times for the monarch to rotate the duchys or what have you, either as a political currency amongst his aristocrats or as a form of musical chairs. It was basically favor-trading. Shaddam has inward motives and outward motives. The outward motive is that each house basically gets a turn managing Arrakis because itís too lucrative to become a permanent fief of any one house

So itís like middle managers. You rotate them before they actually figure out what theyíre doing so they canít form a power base and actually accomplish anything meaningful rise against you.

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003



MrYenko posted:

So itís like middle managers. You rotate them before they actually figure out what theyíre doing so they canít form a power base and actually accomplish anything meaningful rise against you.

Yes, exactly. In the book itís explained that the Atreides are cultivating a fighting force that could soon challenge the Emperorís Sardauker. Shaddam sends the Atreides to Arrakis to eliminate them and it backfires spectacularly when Paul finds an even better fighting force.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



The new trailer has me excited for the YouTube supercut of all the times the word "spice" is mentioned.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Thereís some gorgeous shots in there, and some of them are really fuckiní weird which I was really hoping for.



Also future fashion!

Monglo
Mar 19, 2015


I'm all for this movie turning up good but the idea that it's okay for everything to look gray and boring because real-life deserts are gray and boring sure is dumb.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Jewmanji posted:

Yes, exactly. In the book itís explained that the Atreides are cultivating a fighting force that could soon challenge the Emperorís Sardauker. Shaddam sends the Atreides to Arrakis to eliminate them and it backfires spectacularly when Paul finds an even better fighting force.

A huge part of the fun in dune is that everyone is totally aware of the extent of each other's convoluted schemes and goals, minus an individual asset or two (stilgar, yueh)

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003



Monglo posted:

I'm all for this movie turning up good but the idea that it's okay for everything to look gray and boring because real-life deserts are gray and boring sure is dumb.

I never understand where this notion that Dune has to look totally extravagant comes from. Itís not in the text. Lynch and Jodorowsky both took the fairly sparse physical descriptions and ran wild, but itís not some great act of apostasy to render the visuals in a more subdued fashion. Thereís plenty of striking visuals in the trailers, it just doesnít smack you in the face with colors.

One of the earlier descriptions in the book is a globe of Arrakis that the Baron has. It sounds utterly antiquated and lacking any wild sci-fi imagery- it has very fine gold inlay for the latitude and longitude markers. Thatís it. And yet if it was in the movie people would be like, ďboring!!!Ē.

The book takes place in a stark desert and inside of caves. I never picture Lynchian stuff.

Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jul 22, 2021

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."


Trailer talk, Anyone else think that last shot of Paul's visor coming up looked really bad? Like his head was just floating inside the helmet.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003



Spermando posted:

[futuristic lamentation music]

yeah this was the worst part for me. the monochrome pallette, whatever, it's an aesthetic choice and not necessarily a wrong one. There's no reason Dune has to look like fuckin' froot loops.

But goddamn this faux-arabic ululating is in everything and I'm so sick of it

Ramrod Hotshot fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jul 22, 2021

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



Kingtheninja posted:

Trailer talk, Anyone else think that last shot of Paul's visor coming up looked really bad? Like his head was just floating inside the helmet.

Hate to say it reminded me of the young Luke/Leia in helmets in ROS yikes

FlashFearless
Nov 4, 2004
Death. But not for you, Gunslinger. Never for you.





Kingtheninja posted:

Trailer talk, Anyone else think that last shot of Paul's visor coming up looked really bad? Like his head was just floating inside the helmet.

I thought that was weird. You would think the visor would be CGI, not the person inside of it...?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


The trailer softening me on the look quite a bit, but I think I'd prefer it if Paul were maybe 15% uglier.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



No Paul has been an uggo. Why start now

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

The product of a centuries long breeding program would probably be hot as gently caress.

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


deoju posted:

The product of a centuries long breeding program would probably be hot as gently caress.

Judging by most royal families: lol

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

sean10mm posted:

Judging by most royal families: lol

Lol. An autopsy on Charles II of Spain showed ďa very small heart, lungs corroded, intestines putrefactive and gangrenous, three large stones in the [!] kidney, a single testicle black as coal, and his head full of water.Ē He was so inbred he had 7 great-great grandparents, rather than 16.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


CelticPredator posted:

No Paul has been an uggo. Why start now

I'm not saying I want him ugly, but at the moment he looks like the designated hetero romance from a circa 2010 YA novel film adaptation.

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

Those dreamy blue within blue eyes... :swoon:

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


Kingtheninja posted:

Trailer talk, Anyone else think that last shot of Paul's visor coming up looked really bad? Like his head was just floating inside the helmet.

It was totally a "Hulk in Infinity War" moment.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



Schwarzwald posted:

I'm not saying I want him ugly, but at the moment he looks like the designated hetero romance from a circa 2010 YA novel film adaptation.

Kyle is a hunky boy too

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C

FlashFearless posted:

I thought that was weird. You would think the visor would be CGI, not the person inside of it...?

You have to rotoscope the head and then put it into the CGI. You don't put the CGI around the head.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Schwarzwald posted:

I'm not saying I want him ugly, but at the moment he looks like the designated hetero romance from a circa 2010 YA novel film adaptation.

Sure, but if any character justifies an absurdly beautiful coat rack of an actor, it's Paul Atreides: he's a golden-boy princeling with a handsome good guy father and a famously beautiful mother. He's supposed to come off as really fragile against the harshness of Arrakis, and the Muad'dib thing (literally "desert mouse") speaks to him being slight and unassuming. You're supposed to find him kind of delicate until it turns out he's extremely capable and resilient; a central flaw in the Baron's plan is underestimating him based on assumption, which kind of makes sense with the boy band casting. Fortunately, Chalamet is a pretty good actor on top of that.

If they manage a Part 2, I'm very interested in how they envision Feyd. He tends to come off as an evil Paul, but the Harkonnens are especially inhuman looking in this version and they could do some weird poo poo with it. I feel like a creepy pale Bill SkarsgŚrd would be fun WRT the Baron.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Helmets aren't skin tight, his head just moved a bit lol

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

Xealot posted:

If they manage a Part 2, I'm very interested in how they envision Feyd.

Anything other than a de-age Sting in hot pants would be a disappointment.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

Plague Champion


sean10mm posted:

Judging by most royal families: lol
those aren't centuries-long breeding programs designed to produce a god-man. They're centuries of short-term decisions stacked on top of one another, each designed to consolidate power

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Exactly, it's a religious order with a magical comprehension of causality, literal psychic powers, working over centuries to extrapolate out the genetic consequences of different pairings far into the future. They're kind of the opposite of the Habsburgs.

In general, Dune is a setting full of magi-science cloners and autistic computer-men who can do differential calculus in their heads. They can fold spacetime to travel faster than light. I feel like they've sorted how to breed out hemophilia.

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten


bawfuls posted:

those aren't centuries-long breeding programs designed to produce a god-man. They're centuries of short-term decisions stacked on top of one another, each designed to consolidate power

On the other hand, purebred dogs.

Automatic Slim
Jul 1, 2007



Jewmanji posted:

I never understand where this notion that Dune has to look totally extravagant comes from. Itís not in the text. Lynch and Jodorowsky both took the fairly sparse physical descriptions and ran wild, but itís not some great act of apostasy to render the visuals in a more subdued fashion. Thereís plenty of striking visuals in the trailers, it just doesnít smack you in the face with colors.

Itís the David Lean influence. Lawrence of Arabia was an influence of Dune and any desert call back since.

Have to say Iím not fan of the washed out monochrome because itís over used. Seems to be in fashion but itís unappealing.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Automatic Slim posted:

Itís the David Lean influence. Lawrence of Arabia was an influence of Dune and any desert call back since.

Have to say Iím not fan of the washed out monochrome because itís over used. Seems to be in fashion but itís unappealing.

Its probably a bit of a reaction against the extremely cartoony and (sometimes overly) colorful marvel movies. Its not exclusive to DUNE and you'll probably see a bit more of it going forward if audiences respond well to it. I don't necessarily mind any art style I just don't want hollywood to do the thing they do where everything has to look the same for a few years. Its better to be in a world where the stylistic choice is determined based on the film rather than whatever is "in" in the industry when it is made.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.



Looks like a bit may have veered from the text.
(Paul present when Leto is killed?)

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006




Marvel movies are the least colorful "colorful" movies.

The "problem" with Dune (not a big deal to me but I see the argument) is the lack of contrast in design between the imperial houses and Dune itself. Their costuming is not at all extravagant, having more of a utilitarian edge. Everything fits together, but it would have been more daring to up the ante and go for it design wise.

YoursTruly
Jul 29, 2012

Put me in the trash
Recycle Bin
where
I belong.


I don't care how the book describes the character, I vote for Kiernan Shipka as Alia. Kanly me.

Penitent
Jul 8, 2005

The Lemonade Man Can


Payndz posted:

Odds that the two "pause the trailer to give the audience a chance to laugh" quips are the only jokes in the entire movie?

I'm certain the studio said, "Denis, this looks... inaccessible to folks we are hoping to get back to theater going en masse. Can you fun it up a bit? Have you seen those Marvel movies? They have a talking Raccoon! That's hilarious!"

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



I just have a real, real bad feeling that this is heading for another Blade Runner 2049-esque box office bomb for Villeneuve and he won't get to make Part II. BR2049 was marketed as this action-packed sci-fi thriller, when it was a nearly three-hour-long exploration of the human condition. And audiences turned on it, hard. Dune is being marketed as ... an action-packed sci-fi thriller, when it's going to be a 2.5-hour-long exploration of sociopolitical machinations, the dangers of charismatic leaders, the threat of blind nationalism, and it's going to be a whole lot talkier than the trailers have been making it out to be. Near as I can tell, that trailer had bits of every major action sequence in the first half of the book--not that there are a ton, Dune isn't exactly an action-filled book to begin with.

I just have this horrible gut feeling that its second-weekend box office will tank and we'll never see the second part.

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Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003



Donít underestimate the star power of Chalamet, Zendaya, Momoa and the rest.

BR2049 was a 30+ year sequel to a fairly culty SF film. 14 year olds who werenít up to date on early 80s sci-fi werenít gonna tune into that. Dune doesnít have that baggage- you can go see Dune without any knowledge of the book. BR2049 didnít have that advantage.

Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jul 23, 2021

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