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phasmid
Jan 16, 2015

Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY


Libluini posted:

I don't even understand what's the problem with those people, no-one is ranting about how great fast food chains are just because people complain about bad nutrition. But suddenly, with movies it's their identity at threat??? Who cares if your Marvel-movie is just a very expensive Troll 2, you can still enjoy it

A lot of them seem to see the movies as positive and affirming instead of just being money-grabs. My sister loves these movies (oddly when we were kids, she thought comics were dumb) and watches them with her kids and thinks they're just great. I don't even point out all the ugly poo poo in them because what's the point. They'll go "wow it's so powerful and moving" and when you laugh at them they'll say "hey let me enjoy my dumb popcorn movie." Always, never fails.

But it's still funny to me that these people ignore the Avengers being funded by the DoD to the point where it affects the entire movie, basically making it propaganda. They'd say it's coincidence but as some poster on these forums eloquently put it some time ago, that's why the Good Guy is an arms dealer and the Bad Guy is an environmentalist.

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Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018


Libluini posted:

. But suddenly, with movies it's their identity at threat???

Seems like you understand it perfectly

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


Libluini posted:

I don't even understand what's the problem with those people, no-one is ranting about how great fast food chains are just because people complain about bad nutrition. But suddenly, with movies it's their identity at threat??? Who cares if your Marvel-movie is just a very expensive Troll 2, you can still enjoy it
Does anyone have that insanely cringe tweet chain (or whatever) where someone was claiming that Marvel movies Literally Saved Cinema? It was like "People forget that in the early 2000s, cinema was a dying art... but then Disney showed up and said, 'No... we care.'"

Some of the fans have to convince themselves that what they're consuming is the Highest Quality product available, if it wasn't it would be bullshit.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

phasmid posted:

A lot of them seem to see the movies as positive and affirming instead of just being money-grabs. My sister loves these movies (oddly when we were kids, she thought comics were dumb) and watches them with her kids and thinks they're just great. I don't even point out all the ugly poo poo in them because what's the point. They'll go "wow it's so powerful and moving" and when you laugh at them they'll say "hey let me enjoy my dumb popcorn movie." Always, never fails.

But it's still funny to me that these people ignore the Avengers being funded by the DoD to the point where it affects the entire movie, basically making it propaganda. They'd say it's coincidence but as some poster on these forums eloquently put it some time ago, that's why the Good Guy is an arms dealer and the Bad Guy is an environmentalist.

I always felt that consuming media this way was bad for your mental health. At the end of the day, a movie is a dead thing. It being moving to you personally doesn't mean your entire identity should revolve around it. I would defend the new Dune to the death, but I would also just go play a video game when people on the internet get too annoying when arguing with me. Dune maybe a great movie and an important piece of art, but it's still a dead thing and not worthy of the love and devotion a living entity deserves.

It's like the people who wanted to marry their Game Boy back in the day. It's a completely baffling brain malfunction, as far as I'm concerned

phasmid
Jan 16, 2015

Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY


I think expression is a living thing, or close to it. Even if the thing is stamped out in its final form, there's a feedback with the viewer. But to attach to anything too firmly is a mistake, because those things will evolve and change and perhaps one day be obsolete entire, even to the person who once loved the thing.

Then there's fully grown adults who seriously entertain the idea of superheroes and get real mad if you call spider-man a dweeb or say that iron man (if he were real) would be directly responsible for us blowing up those unfortunates in Kabul.

Cognac McCarthy
Oct 5, 2008

It's a man's game, but boys will play



It's probably fine that the last 15 years of poptimism coincided with rapid media consolidation, entrenched wealth inequality, and our political culture backsliding into fascism. Just a weird coincidence! I like the Marvel movies fine but I really feel like the people who are genuinely committed to them and moved by them are probably rubes to a certain extent.

phasmid
Jan 16, 2015

Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY


The good guys always win :)

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006




phasmid posted:

I think expression is a living thing, or close to it. Even if the thing is stamped out in its final form, there's a feedback with the viewer. But to attach to anything too firmly is a mistake, because those things will evolve and change and perhaps one day be obsolete entire, even to the person who once loved the thing.

Then there's fully grown adults who seriously entertain the idea of superheroes and get real mad if you call spider-man a dweeb or say that iron man (if he were real) would be directly responsible for us blowing up those unfortunates in Kabul.

It isn't a living thing, but you are, and make it alive by finding meaning in it. Thus death of the author, etc.

You probably shouldn't make a religion out of a brand though. The best part is the insistence on "canon." Actually the best part is the SMG posts this inspires.

Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Sep 18, 2021

fatherboxx
Mar 25, 2013



The movie rulessss

It hits all the best sci-fi moments of wonder in little details, the thing that made me (and I hope a lot of other people) fall in love with the genre. Every scene has some major or minor otherwordly element that drives your attention, never slipping into tactical realism of familiarity. Like, the planet with Sardaukars features gigantic sacrificial altars collecting blood that priests use to bless them, :black101: as hell

Unlike Lynch's version and Jodorowsky approach (as seen through his rehash in Metabarons), this one engages more in political themes rather than just mysticism and eugenics and destiny - from the start it is revealed that Bene Gesserit planted the seeds of Lisan al Gaib beliefs among the freemen, so it is impossible not to view everything through the 20th century imperialism lens. And just so that even every marvel fan undestands, the Baron, rising from a vat of oil, declares that he wants more profits. The writers who use subtext are cowards etc

This version of Baron is extremely good, more of a quiet sociopath like D'Onofrio Kingpin than the decandent rotting fatass. Every major character is a homerun of casting and presentation. Ferguson just kills it and dominates the movie.

Happy to see a blockbuster movie without anyone saying "so THAT happened", "they fly now?" or "does this thing even work???"

fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Sep 18, 2021

Spylde
May 14, 2008

No one loves the sexophone

Just came back from seeing this. Echoing everyones thoughts. Movie was great. Ferguson was especially great. Can't wait for the next part.

I really appreciated how they managed to explain stuff just enough so I think movie can be 100% enjoyed without prior knowledge, without there being some massive explanation dumps. Also loved how they've changed the pronunciation of Harkonnen so it more closely resembles the pronunciation of Finnish surname Härkönen which I seem to remember is the origin of the name. Or this last part can be just my Finnish brain hearing things weird.

And yeah, the way music was used was a bit weird here and there (blasting full volume at odd times it felt like), but it added some otherworldliness so I didn't mind that much

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


Movie was good. They made the Voice seem really creepy. I wasn't too enamoured with the score and I wished it had been done by anyone other than Zimmer.

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


Arglebargle III posted:

Lynch movie had the same problem.
This movie is basically Villeneuve trying to fix the Lynch movie. You might prefer the 2000 miniseries. If not good, it at least has its own feel.

Dante
Feb 8, 2003



Kurzon posted:

This movie is basically Villeneuve trying to fix the Lynch movie. You might prefer the 2000 miniseries. If not good, it at least has its own feel.
That's a really good summary of the vibe you get from this movie. I wish Villeneuve would have strayed a little further from that creative vision, but it's still good.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

Movie ruled, saw it with my girlfriend who isn't the biggest sci-fi person but she really loved it too, so hopefully this does have broad appeal and we get the sequel(s) too.

Wasn't expecting so many references to the Old Duke's run-in with the bull though, it almost got a bit silly where it always came up somehow to underline one thematic turning point or another.

Spylde posted:

. Also loved how they've changed the pronunciation of Harkonnen so it more closely resembles the pronunciation of Finnish surname Härkönen which I seem to remember is the origin of the name. Or this last part can be just my Finnish brain hearing things weird.

Can definitely confirm this, it was the first thing I noticed!

Crespolini
Mar 9, 2014



Spylde posted:

Also loved how they've changed the pronunciation of Harkonnen


We're enemies.

Otherwise I liked it fine, and wouldn't have minded going straight into the second half after an intermission.

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


Spylde posted:

Also loved how they've changed the pronunciation of Harkonnen so it more closely resembles the pronunciation of Finnish surname Härkönen which I seem to remember is the origin of the name. Or this last part can be just my Finnish brain hearing things weird.
Wikipedia backs you up.

TerminalSaint
Apr 20, 2007


Where must we go...

we who wander this Wasteland in search of our better selves?


It's the way Frank Herbert pronounced it, so it's not really a chance.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



You know in retrospect, Yueh's plan is even worse than it first appears.

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


Re: the plot twist in the middle in the book it's hilarious how everyone dismisses every red flag regarding Yueh over the course of like 6 chapters. It works better in the movie because he only has four lines before that part. Also strengthens Thufir Hawat's main character trait which is being bad at everything

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester


All in on worm

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



Maxing out oscar isaac

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003


Everyone has their own head canon for what needs to be in this movie for it to feel like Dune. For me, that requires someone to swallow in a dry throat. Or to remark on the flinty smell of melange in the air.

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

You thought, "A robber must hate you to want to take from you"
The robber don't hate you


The main thing I was envisioning was lots and lots of concrete. So as you can imagine feeling pretty blessed

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



there should be industrial scale dehumidifiers to really dry out the theater so the audience get as thirsty as the characters

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


Spermando posted:

Re: the plot twist in the middle in the book it's hilarious how everyone dismisses every red flag regarding Yueh over the course of like 6 chapters. It works better in the movie because he only has four lines before that part. Also strengthens Thufir Hawat's main character trait which is being bad at everything
I read an analysis somewhere that this was deliberate, to show off the arrogance of the Atreides. Thufir Hawat thinks Yueh is supposed to have unbreakable mental conditioning that makes him incapable of harming anyone, but the Harkonnens broke it, proving Hawat wrong. Jessica, for her part, thinks she understands Yueh emotionally, and she consequently overlooks the signs that he's a traitor. This is more apparent in the books, but the movie is forced the cut out a lot of this nuance. Hawat is overconfident in his logical reasoning, Jessica is overconfident in her empathy, neither of them used both logic and empathy to see through Yueh.

Kurzon fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Sep 19, 2021

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR

🔊😴


Do mentats have the big eyebrows in this movie too or is that another way they've strayed from the source material (which is of course the Lynch movie and not the book)?

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


Unfortunately no, but they've added throat-signing DJs, which I'm about to add to the wiki.

Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006


Kurzon posted:

I read an analysis somewhere that this was deliberate, to show off the arrogance of the Atreides. Thufir Hawat thinks Yueh is supposed to have unbreakable mental conditioning that makes him incapable of harming anyone, but the Harkonnens broke it, proving Hawat wrong. Jessica, for her part, thinks she understands Yueh emotionally, and she consequently overlooks the signs that he's a traitor. This is more apparent in the books, but the movie is forced the cut out a lot of this nuance. Hawat is overconfident in his logical reasoning, Jessica is overconfident in her empathy, neither of them used both logic and empathy to see through Yueh.

These type of analyses are just trying to rationalize what is a pretty lame plot line that attempts to pass off the most obvious thing in the world (blackmail a guy) as some act of amazing cunning that only the most twisted fella could come up with.

Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Sep 19, 2021

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

Spylde posted:

Just came back from seeing this. Echoing everyones thoughts. Movie was great. Ferguson was especially great. Can't wait for the next part.

I really appreciated how they managed to explain stuff just enough so I think movie can be 100% enjoyed without prior knowledge, without there being some massive explanation dumps. Also loved how they've changed the pronunciation of Harkonnen so it more closely resembles the pronunciation of Finnish surname Härkönen which I seem to remember is the origin of the name. Or this last part can be just my Finnish brain hearing things weird.

And yeah, the way music was used was a bit weird here and there (blasting full volume at odd times it felt like), but it added some otherworldliness so I didn't mind that much


Re. Harkonnen pronunciation. I didn't know there was controversy here! The German dub just stayed exactly the same it always was. Gotta love our dumb ultra-conservative dubbing studios...

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


There is a thread running all through Dune of setting up people or groups as awesome and then having them fail badly and suffer horrible fates.

I can't think of anyone this doesn't apply to actually.

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


I think Mentats are amusing because Frank Herbert didn't foresee that we'd have compact computers on our desks and integrated into our phones, our televisions, our cars, our airplanes, etc. Dune came out in 1965 and the first pocket calculator came out in 1971. Computers in Herbert's day were big and heavy things that filled rooms.

Pedro De Heredia posted:

These type of analyses are just trying to rationalize what is a pretty lame plot line that attempts to pass off the most obvious thing in the world (blackmail a guy) as some act of amazing cunning that only the most twisted fella could come up with.
Well for what it's worth, here's the analysis. This guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

It's the Teachers fault!

NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


Kurzon posted:

Dune came out in 1965 and the first pocket calculator came out in 1971.

Viral Marketing?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/16/home-computing-pioneer-sir-clive-sinclair-dies-aged-81

Butlerians have started the Jihad

Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Sep 19, 2021

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003


Kurzon posted:

I think Mentats are amusing because Frank Herbert didn't foresee that we'd have compact computers on our desks and integrated into our phones, our televisions, our cars, our airplanes, etc. Dune came out in 1965 and the first pocket calculator came out in 1971. Computers in Herbert's day were big and heavy things that filled rooms.

I don't understand this. Do people assume the Butlerian Jihad outlawed all computers? Because that's not what it was. It was a ban on AI. There are still computers in Dune.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Jewmanji posted:

I don't understand this. Do people assume the Butlerian Jihad outlawed all computers? Because that's not what it was. It was a ban on AI. There are still computers in Dune.

No it was pretty explicitly a ban on a computers. Leto II talks about it in God-Emperor where he talks about how computers ingrained their users with "machine thinking" and that the jihad was just as much a war against that as it was against the AI. The only people who flaunt the Butlerian proscription are the Ixians and Leto himself.

Cognac McCarthy
Oct 5, 2008

It's a man's game, but boys will play



I think it's easy to assume there are computers in the universe because they have some advanced technologies and engineering, but I believe they're all made using simple machines and electronic devices, that's it

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Cognac McCarthy posted:

I think it's easy to assume there are computers in the universe because they have some advanced technologies and engineering, but I believe they're all made using simple machines and electronic devices, that's it

Yeah and its not hard to imagine that there must be some group of Mentat engineers designing a lot of this stuff.

Baron von Eevl
Jan 24, 2005

WHITE NOISE
GENERATOR

🔊😴


Yeah, the ban on computers is kind of the whole point, because you can't do the trillions of calculations necessary for interstellar light-speed travel with mentats you need navigators to psychically understand where the ship will go, and in order to have navigators you need tremendous amounts of spice.

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003


AnEdgelord posted:

No it was pretty explicitly a ban on a computers.

"Taraza leaned forward in her chairdog and scanned the Records Relay projecting its condensed Bene Gesserit glyphs above the tabletop for her eyes only. "Darwi Odrade," the display identified the standing woman, and then came the essential biography, which Taraza already knew in detail. The display served several purposes- it provided a secure reminder for the Mother Superior, it allowed an occasional delay for thought while she appeared to scan the records, and it was a final argument should something negative arise from this interview".

Sounds like a computer to me.

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AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Jewmanji posted:

"Taraza leaned forward in her chairdog and scanned the Records Relay projecting its condensed Bene Gesserit glyphs above the tabletop for her eyes only. "Darwi Odrade," the display identified the standing woman, and then came the essential biography, which Taraza already knew in detail. The display served several purposes- it provided a secure reminder for the Mother Superior, it allowed an occasional delay for thought while she appeared to scan the records, and it was a final argument should something negative arise from this interview".

Sounds like a computer to me.

Yeah AFTER Leto starved everyone of spice and forced them to find alternative methods of performing their functions. Even the Guild is using some computers after that but again thats only as a result of Leto's engineered spice famine.

The Butlerian Proscription is still in full force in the first three books.

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