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Doublestep
Sep 8, 2013



Barudak posted:

Sure but they gain something from it. Kylo is just begging to be evil, like he lives in a world where if you are good good stuff happens to you and he wants some reason to do bad things because "easy rewards" or "has a thirst for horrible ideology" just arent things that he can process

kylo was basically convinced he had to be evil because of luke trying to assassinate him while he was sleeping and his entire character is basically being as big of a poo poo as possible because he was too afraid to go to leia

hes a stupid confused kid i dont think his morality is supposed to make sense

his uncle tried to pwn him while he was good boy tucked into bed

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Flavius Aetass
Mar 30, 2011





Doublestep posted:

his uncle tried to pwn him while he was good boy tucked into bed

happens to the best of us

Doublestep
Sep 8, 2013



like i know star wars writing is comedy bad but if my uncle was basically worshiped as space jesus and the savior of everything if he tried to murder me in my lil space bunk bed id be pissing myself in fear and confusion

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




From what I hear about the issues with Picard, I get the feeling the whole extra confusing storytelling style of over-explaining the blatantly obvious and under-explaining everything that puts it in context is a result of suits who think viewers are idiots who will be confused if characters talk about major events that happened previously, but need what's happening in front of their eyes explained so they don't get confused. IE, suits that are idiots.

That and the theory that Frozen 2 has characters over-explain everything they do because people watched test screenings and complained the plot made no sense, and decided they needed more explanation rather than realising the problem is that the things the characters choose to do make no sense.

Actually it reminds me of that whole legendary 'put her hair in a ponytail but didn't' thread where the OP's response to people's confusion at their near-incomprehensible writing style is to repeat themselves and over-explain random details rather than actually state their core premise and the context for it.

I'm starting to wonder if there's a common theme in that this is what happens when the producers are all senile.

Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 6, 2020

Barudak
May 7, 2007



nine-gear crow posted:

Reason #978979089798908989809 Rise of Skywalker sucks: No Palpatine villain song.

also @ Disney trying to run the "PALPATINE FUCKS NOW" horse back in the barn by clarifying that Rey's dad was just a Sheev clone too.

Palpatine:
The senates so obsessed
With their legal process
Its hard to pass a law on Coruscant
Power should be more witty
Power should be more pretty
Oh whats the word?

Anakin:
Unlimited?

Palpatine:
Exactly!

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Cease to Hope posted:

You should reread Dark Empire. The sequel trilogy ranges from mixed to really bad, but even TROS at its worst has nothing on DE's completely nonsense story

Lol no, I ain't re-reading that poo poo.

Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008






give em the ol sheevle evil

show em the first rate sorcerer you are

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Barudak posted:

Palpatine:
The senates so obsessed
With their legal process
Its hard to pass a law on Coruscant
Power should be more witty
Power should be more pretty
Oh whats the word?

Anakin:
Unlimited?

Palpatine:
Exactly!

That doesn't rhyme!

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Ghost Leviathan posted:

I get the feeling the whole extra confusing storytelling style of over-explaining the blatantly obvious

I dunno, you have people even today trying to pass off the idea that some of the star wars movies are actually stories of how the Jedi Order are evil and were rightfully destroyed.

Lots of people will blind themselves to the blatantly obvious given even the slightest amount of unexplained bits.

Also, what legendary "put her hair in a pony tail" thing? I have not heard of this legend.

damn horror queefs
Oct 14, 2005

say hello
say hello to the man in the elevator

Doublestep posted:

like i know star wars writing is comedy bad but if my uncle was basically worshiped as space jesus and the savior of everything if he tried to murder me in my lil space bunk bed id be pissing myself in fear and confusion

Sounds like someone SUBEVRTED his EXPECATTIONS

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

CainFortea posted:


Also, what legendary "put her hair in a pony tail" thing? I have not heard of this legend.

I too would like to hear the legend of the pony tail that didn't

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWpzvxNZRPs

:)

:(

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


is that the actual movie

palpatine looks and sounds terrible

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Up Circle posted:

is that the actual movie

palpatine looks and sounds terrible

Yes, although it seems to be from a terrible bootleg cam version of the movie.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Up Circle posted:

is that the actual movie

palpatine looks and sounds terrible

It is in the actual movie and even in non-camcorder format Palps looked really... off all throughout the movie.

A Gnarlacious Bro
Apr 25, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Imagine iconic hooded sorcerer sheev vs iconic metal skullcap wizard Merlin from the film Excalibur.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Yeah, I couldn't help noticing at the time how Palpatine looked like poo poo. It really took a back seat to all the other deranged poo poo that was happening in the movie tho

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.


jesus christ, if you're going to do the laziest loving thing possible at least make it not look like poo poo

[a picture of jj abrams with the next generation theme playing in the background]

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




2house2fly posted:

Yeah, I couldn't help noticing at the time how Palpatine looked like poo poo. It really took a back seat to all the other deranged poo poo that was happening in the movie tho

It seriously looks like he's a weird CGI recreation of what people think Palpatine is supposed to look like, like Tarkin and Leia in Rogue One, only they could do a little bit more with him than Random Dialog Hacked Together Leia because Ian McDiarmid was still alive to voice new lines for Palpy. But this seriously feels like he wasn't even on set and he agreed to ADR it at the last possible second or they were gonna bring Sam Witwer in and have him do it.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Maybe he's a hologram? He's a hologram in most of the other ones, and he's kinda blue

Saint Drogo
Dec 26, 2011



Palpy was apparently a much later addition than you'd think. which is especially pathetic when everyone not actually making the movies saw it coming five years ago.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



nine-gear crow posted:

It seriously looks like he's a weird CGI recreation of what people think Palpatine is supposed to look like,

Yea it looked like a loving Palpatine snap chat filter and I was waiting for it to gently caress up and briefly reveal the real actor when he moved his head too fast or whatever

SidneyIsTheKiller
Jul 16, 2019

She's delusional,
"where's god", etc.
Completely suicidal.
One day she snaps.
She wants to kill herself
but she realizes that
teen suicide is out this year
and homicide is a much healthier therapeutic expression.


It's the way the hood rests on his head. I can't really describe it but it makes him look really dumpy and fatter than he actually is.

One thing I didn't realize on first watch is, before he gets "rejuvenated", Ian McDiarmid isn't wearing the emperor makeup. He's actually back to normal Chancellor Palpatine/ Darth Sidious form, though he doesn't have pupils (wonder if he's blind?).

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018



Pillbug

Huh. I didn't notice in the theater that they actually put a bathrobe on the Sheev too.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Saint Drogo posted:

Palpy was apparently a much later addition than you'd think. which is especially pathetic when everyone not actually making the movies saw it coming five years ago.

It's absurd how on the nose fans were about the whole thing. It wasn't even just like "they're gonna bring Palpatine back", people were actually saying "they have no clue where they're going with this so they'll probably just get desperate and bring Palpatine back", and that turned out to be super accurate.

SidneyIsTheKiller
Jul 16, 2019

She's delusional,
"where's god", etc.
Completely suicidal.
One day she snaps.
She wants to kill herself
but she realizes that
teen suicide is out this year
and homicide is a much healthier therapeutic expression.


Basebf555 posted:

It's absurd how on the nose fans were about the whole thing. It wasn't even just like "they're gonna bring Palpatine back", people were actually saying "they have no clue where they're going with this so they'll probably just get desperate and bring Palpatine back", and that turned out to be super accurate.

I'm convinced the Emperor was part of the plan from the beginning, either as "keep it so close to the vest we don't even tell Colin Treverrow until he's already written a draft" or as an "in case of emergency break glass" contingency. TFA makes just a little too much sense now for me to believe otherwise. Hell, they even named her Rey for crying out loud.

I know, hindsight, confirmation bias, 'Darth Vader does not actually mean anything in German', etc. but it fits with the prior movies a lot better than any of the other popular theories that were going around.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Turns out, since the sequels aimed to do everything bigger than the OT, the 'your parents were nobody' / 'sike you're a Palpatine' was set up by Rian and JJ in advance, just to outdo "from a certain point of view" in terms of rear end-pulls.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

TFA makes just a little too much sense now for me to believe otherwise. Hell, they even named her Rey for crying out loud.

If possible I'd very much like if you expanded on this!

Grizzwold
Jan 27, 2012



reignofevil posted:

If possible I'd very much like if you expanded on this!

I assume itís because Rey is Spanish for king, but if thereís a reason that doesnít feel like as much of a reach Iíd also like to hear it.

SidneyIsTheKiller
Jul 16, 2019

She's delusional,
"where's god", etc.
Completely suicidal.
One day she snaps.
She wants to kill herself
but she realizes that
teen suicide is out this year
and homicide is a much healthier therapeutic expression.


reignofevil posted:

If possible I'd very much like if you expanded on this!

It's mostly on the subjective side so if you were hoping for something based on logic or specific plot points you'll probably be disappointed. TFA feels like a puzzle that has this big piece missing in the center, and if you place "Rey is a Palpatine" into it the resulting picture makes me go "Hmm, yeah, makes sense." It's definitely not the only thing they could've done, but at least out of all the popular options/ theories it feels the most natural.

Re-watching TFA the overwhelming impression I get is that she's dangerous. Unlike Luke, she was no one's hope. It feels more like she was radioactive waste being buried in some remote location so that no one would find her and unleash pandora's box. (I know in literal terms this would seem to conflict with TROS which appeared to suggest her parents hid her away for her own safety; but it doesn't have to be either/or, I don't think, and this is more on a subtextual level anyway).

Daisy Ridley's performance and overall presence is just odd and feels deliberately out of place for someone in a supposed hero role (in TFA and TLJ it's exactly this intriguing 'presence' that was the only thing that kept me from just dismissing her character out of boredom). Then you tell me "she's someone who's 'supposed' to be evil but doesn't realize it" and it's like yes that is exactly what it feels like.

Then you take that the movie seems to go out of its way to present her in some kind of duality role with Kylo Ren, who is himself out of place (he's someone who's 'supposed' to be the good guy but is being trained not to be against his better nature), when you know about Rey's heritage it's like "oh duh, they're mirror images of each other".

Anakin's lightsaber has a reaction to Rey - the short orange lady with big eyes says it's "calling" to her but I think she's mistaken - which it never did for anyone else, and it gives her a very dark and frightening vision that repels Rey and makes her want nothing to do with it. This sequence makes the most sense if the lightsaber is reacting negatively to her. Like if it had a personality it would be going "You! Go away you evil bitch!"

I'm now realizing that all this doesn't necessarily point to the Emperor returning in the flesh so I'll have to concede that, but I think they set TFA up so "Rey is a Palpatine" was always in the cards and probably their default plotline should they not come up with something else in the interim.

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



Spain doesnt exist in the star wars universe.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.



This is an interesting read on TFA! Thanks for expanding on it for me!

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


The "call of the light" or whatever is the dumbest poo poo ever.

SidneyIsTheKiller
Jul 16, 2019

She's delusional,
"where's god", etc.
Completely suicidal.
One day she snaps.
She wants to kill herself
but she realizes that
teen suicide is out this year
and homicide is a much healthier therapeutic expression.


eric ciaramella posted:

Spain doesnt exist in the star wars universe.

No one expects the Spanish inquisition!

Anyhow Rey is indeed Spanish for "King" and yes it sounds ridiculous but some folks managed to correctly peg the eventual reveal before TFA was even released based almost entirely on just this bit of information. It invites incredulity but I think it's actually because it seems too obvious rather than because it's too off the nose.

reignofevil posted:

This is an interesting read on TFA! Thanks for expanding on it for me!

Hey you're welcome, reignofevil...

Or should I say: REYgnofevil!

I'm on to you...

SidneyIsTheKiller
Jul 16, 2019

She's delusional,
"where's god", etc.
Completely suicidal.
One day she snaps.
She wants to kill herself
but she realizes that
teen suicide is out this year
and homicide is a much healthier therapeutic expression.


SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

Then you take that the movie seems to go out of its way to present her in some kind of duality role with Kylo Ren, who is himself out of place (he's someone who's 'supposed' to be the good guy but is being trained not to be against his better nature), when you know about Rey's heritage it's like "oh duh, they're mirror images of each other".

Adding to this, TFA feels like it has this Final Destination-esque aspect to it in which Palpatine had gone and done something unnatural* by cheating death and corrupting Ben Solo - these are things that were not supposed to happen. The collective force moves to correct/ compensate for this meddling in the universe and awakens within Finn at the exact moment it does in order to set off a series of events that leads to Palpatine's granddaughter being be trained as a Jedi by the Skywalkers, hence the title of the movie.

*("that some consider to be...")

Saint Drogo
Dec 26, 2011



MonsieurChoc posted:

The "call of the light" or whatever is the dumbest poo poo ever.
wasn't that just like...kylo's conscience?

SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

It's mostly on the subjective side so if you were hoping for something based on logic or specific plot points you'll probably be disappointed. TFA feels like a puzzle that has this big piece missing in the center, and if you place "Rey is a Palpatine" into it the resulting picture makes me go "Hmm, yeah, makes sense." It's definitely not the only thing they could've done, but at least out of all the popular options/ theories it feels the most natural.

Re-watching TFA the overwhelming impression I get is that she's dangerous. Unlike Luke, she was no one's hope. It feels more like she was radioactive waste being buried in some remote location so that no one would find her and unleash pandora's box. (I know in literal terms this would seem to conflict with TROS which appeared to suggest her parents hid her away for her own safety; but it doesn't have to be either/or, I don't think, and this is more on a subtextual level anyway).

Daisy Ridley's performance and overall presence is just odd and feels deliberately out of place for someone in a supposed hero role (in TFA and TLJ it's exactly this intriguing 'presence' that was the only thing that kept me from just dismissing her character out of boredom). Then you tell me "she's someone who's 'supposed' to be evil but doesn't realize it" and it's like yes that is exactly what it feels like.

Then you take that the movie seems to go out of its way to present her in some kind of duality role with Kylo Ren, who is himself out of place (he's someone who's 'supposed' to be the good guy but is being trained not to be against his better nature), when you know about Rey's heritage it's like "oh duh, they're mirror images of each other".

Anakin's lightsaber has a reaction to Rey - the short orange lady with big eyes says it's "calling" to her but I think she's mistaken - which it never did for anyone else, and it gives her a very dark and frightening vision that repels Rey and makes her want nothing to do with it. This sequence makes the most sense if the lightsaber is reacting negatively to her. Like if it had a personality it would be going "You! Go away you evil bitch!"

I'm now realizing that all this doesn't necessarily point to the Emperor returning in the flesh so I'll have to concede that, but I think they set TFA up so "Rey is a Palpatine" was always in the cards and probably their default plotline should they not come up with something else in the interim.
this is some good movie redeeming, but I would prefer it so much if all that referred to Rey's own darkness (ie abandonment, rage, the ol fear-anger-hate-suffering) instead of her being baby Palpatine, which is just schlock.

that seemed to be the way TLJ was going, but that baby got well and truly chucked out with the bathwater.

David D. Davidson
Nov 17, 2012

Orca lady?

MonsieurChoc posted:

The "call of the light" or whatever is the dumbest poo poo ever.

I honestly took that whole speech as a way of demonstrating that Smoke has been feeding Kylo a huge line of bull about Darth Vader and the Sith actually being the good guys like the way a lot of alt right figures like to paint Confederate generals as means of propaganda.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

I wanted her to be a girl clone of Palpatine

Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008






galpatine

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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Squizzle posted:

galpatine

my Gal-Pal-Tina

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