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reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


DJ is supposed to be irredeemable han solo which was a twist designed to play on your expectations from having seen the popular star wars movie franchise, which is why he's a bad character because understanding his narrative role is predicated on being nostalgic for another, better performance.

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

reignofevil posted:

DJ is supposed to be irredeemable han solo which was a twist designed to play on your expectations from having seen the popular star wars movie franchise, which is why he's a bad character because understanding his narrative role is predicated on being nostalgic for another, better performance.

Or being even slightly familiar with this sort of movie in general. Han Solo is not the first or last scoundrel with a heart of gold.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008


No, but the golden scoundrel of my heart.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




TLJ is like a movie made by someone who thinks they're a filmmaking genius because they've seen ALL the Star Wars movies.

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.



TLJ is a movie made by someone who thinks they're a filmmaking genius because they made three genius films before it and would go on to make a fifth genius film after it.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Calling Looper, The brother's bloom, and Brick genius is a bit of a stretch.

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.



But you're with me on Knives Out!

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

PeterWeller posted:

But you're with me on Knives Out!

The third act is a little soft.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Ghost Leviathan posted:

TLJ is like a movie made by someone who thinks they're a filmmaking genius because they've seen ALL the Star Wars movies.

I donít see how this applies any less to the JJ films

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Guy A. Person posted:

I donít see how this applies any less to the JJ films

it's such a nonspecific burn that you can apply it to pretty much anything

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.



Cease to Hope posted:

it's such a nonspecific burn that you can apply it to pretty much anything

It's a refreshing change from "RJ doesn't understand Star Wars!"

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Cease to Hope posted:

it's such a nonspecific burn that you can apply it to pretty much anything

If RotS has better burns than you, you gotta question your path. Are you a poster... or a poser?

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




CainFortea posted:

Calling Looper, The brother's bloom, and Brick genius is a bit of a stretch.

People like to forget that Rian Johnson also directed Ozymandias, the best episode of Breaking Bad, and according to a lot of people, the best episode of television in history...

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

nine-gear crow posted:

People like to forget that Rian Johnson also directed Ozymandias, the best episode of Breaking Bad, and according to a lot of people, the best episode of television in history...

Those people forget that there was a whole show preceding that episode. It was a fantastic episode, mind you.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


nine-gear crow posted:

People like to forget that Rian Johnson also directed Ozymandias, the best episode of Breaking Bad, and according to a lot of people, the best episode of television in history...

And yet, he's no Michelle MacLaren.


FWIW I actually cannot think of any modern director who fits the weird commercial auteur status Lucas and company had in the day. Rian is probably both the closest and the best choice despite his understandable inability to mine a good film out of a desperate corporate mandate.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

FunkyAl posted:

FWIW I actually cannot think of any modern director who fits the weird commercial auteur status Lucas and company had in the day. Rian is probably both the closest and the best choice despite his understandable inability to mine a good film out of a desperate corporate mandate.

It seems to be what Disney is attempting to cultivate lately, with mixed results. taika waititi maybe?

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013



Guy A. Person posted:

I donít see how this applies any less to the JJ films

hes only seen half of them

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013



a new hope, return of the jedi, and the phantom menace

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Guy A. Person posted:

I donít see how this applies any less to the JJ films

Why wouldn't it?

Hence 'seems like', since kind of the problem is that the movies seem keen to only use or subvert devices and elements with Star Wars precedent, and acts as if doing something a Star Wars movie hasn't previously done is a shocking unprecedented swerve that really makes the audience think. Every sign of a franchise that's high on its own farts and sense of self-importance with also absolutely terrified of making its audience confused and angry by doing something different- a grating mix of self-importance and a crippling lack of confidence.

Rogue One works better specifically because it actually homages the stuff that the original Star Wars did; war movies, westerns and wuxia, and by having minimal appearances by the famous Star Wars characters it actually gives them some impact. (Darth Vader making a dad joke and then being a horror movie monster) And even then, it mostly gets by on the final act kicking rear end, the rest of the movie is a mess.

FunkyAl posted:

And yet, he's no Michelle MacLaren.


FWIW I actually cannot think of any modern director who fits the weird commercial auteur status Lucas and company had in the day. Rian is probably both the closest and the best choice despite his understandable inability to mine a good film out of a desperate corporate mandate.

Lord and Miller?

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Cease to Hope posted:

It seems to be what Disney is attempting to cultivate lately, with mixed results. taika waititi maybe?


It's fundamentally impossible for them to cultivate an anti-establishment filmmaker, which is nice. I don't get the Taika hype.


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Lord and Miller?

They're OK! But are they really Auteurs? I feel like if they were we'd have a little more Clone High and a lot less The Lego Movies.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

FunkyAl posted:

It's fundamentally impossible for them to cultivate an anti-establishment filmmaker, which is nice. I don't get the Taika hype.

I don't think Lucas was ever an antiestablishment filmmaker! Waititi has a distinct authorial (auteurial?) voice that comes through even with Disney's relentless branding machine, I would say.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



CelticPredator fucked around with this message at 19:50 on May 1, 2020

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Cease to Hope posted:

I don't think Lucas was ever an antiestablishment filmmaker! Waititi has a distinct authorial (auteurial?) voice that comes through even with Disney's relentless branding machine, I would say.

Well whether his ad copy is an accurate reflection of the kind of filmmaker he is or was, Lucas at least seems to think he was anti-hollywood and in his career took tons of steps to maintain creative control of his work. So much that is establishment now is a result of that rebellious energy, not just from George, and whatever Watiti's strength as a filmmaker he seems content to work within that system, Unlike Lucas, Coppola, Walt Disney, and many others.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Lucas and Disney only wanted to change the system because they wanted to BE the system. Which they are now.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


CainFortea posted:

Lucas and Disney only wanted to change the system because they wanted to BE the system. Which they are now.

So how the hell can you restrike that lightning. Who has that fire?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





FunkyAl posted:

So how the hell can you restrike that lightning. Who has that fire?

What does that have to do with the price of butter?

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



FunkyAl posted:

So how the hell can you restrike that lightning. Who has that fire?

Anyone who can talk a studio into financing them doing a cutting edge movie without strict oversight. Which is to say no one.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Conversely you can imagine the people making these movies, including but not limited to george and steven, as a group of friends who fell into big commercial success and had a blast going on a one time great ride. All the actors and the crew, all the special effects dudes and puppeteers, the editors and a couple of the monty python people and that poo poo. There's a story Carrie Fisher tells where the whole cast were all up all night drinking with monty python the night before the cloud city shoot. They all probably had drama, people got together and or divorced, and they all signed each other's yearbooks at the end of production. Jim Henson is there at the wrap party with his evil bong, the guys who blew up the death star blow a bunch of poo poo up in a field, and some people realize they're alive for the first time.

Anyway, now the board of directors hires the guy who makes movies for very cheap and puts them in a computer simulated lab environment to direct hypercompetent droves of filmmaker/animators, gives them a script and then re-edits the whole thing with a new director after they decide what they don't like. It is marketed as an attempt to replicate the first thing, the rise of skywalker's bonus footage is mostly footage behind the scenes of the OT. There are parties but they aren't very good.


CainFortea posted:

What does that have to do with the price of butter?

Part of the pursuit of money is the pursuit of a hard to sell idea. Having the money means having creative control. The drive to raise that money for that specific, individual idea is a different sort of thing than being paid to have someone's old idea.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Okay, so you said "So much that is establishment now is a result of that rebellious energy..."

I pointed out that it wasn't rebellious energy, it was simply them wanting to change who was on top.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


CainFortea posted:

Okay, so you said "So much that is establishment now is a result of that rebellious energy..."

I pointed out that it wasn't rebellious energy, it was simply them wanting to change who was on top.

How can either of us actually pretend to know their real motivation? To me it seems like they were young and wanted to start some poo poo, and that they lucked into most of it, and changed some stuff for a while. I'm sure they wanted to change the pecking order, but isn't that what sparks real rebellions? Are rebels typically satisfied with their social standing?

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



George just wanted to make films. Like, he was smart about it, but it seems more than anything he is/was just a film nerd.

Walt...wanted to take over the world?

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Some Goon posted:

George just wanted to make films. Like, he was smart about it, but it seems more than anything he is/was just a film nerd.

Walt...wanted to take over the world?

And he would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids and your dog

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Some Goon posted:

George just wanted to make films. Like, he was smart about it, but it seems more than anything he is/was just a film nerd.

Walt...wanted to take over the world?

Walt probably lucked into everything too, despite the fact he successfully took over California.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

People don't have one set of motivations their entire life. It's entirely possible for Lucas, Spielberg, etc. to have had a rebellious energy at one point and then the faces of the new machine at a later point.

A Gnarlacious Bro
Apr 25, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


George Lucas was a pretty obvious pedophile imo

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

A Gnarlacious Bro posted:

George Lucas was a pretty obvious pedophile imo

Because he made movies in the USA?

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Grendels Dad posted:

Because he made movies in the USA?

Because Indiana Jones hosed Marion when she was a child (Lucas specifically wanted her to have been 12) and when she calls him on it it's treated like a lovers' spat and she's being unreasonable. Then she falls in love with her abuser again.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Lemniscate Blue posted:

Because Indiana Jones hosed Marion when she was a child (Lucas specifically wanted her to have been 12) and when she calls him on it it's treated like a lovers' spat and she's being unreasonable. Then she falls in love with her abuser again.

Oh poo poo, right. That.

SolarFire2
Oct 16, 2001

"You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat." - Meat And Sarcasm Guy!

Grendels Dad posted:

Oh poo poo, right. That.

Plus Jabba the Hutt is a pretty obvious outlet for his fetishes.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




FunkyAl posted:

Walt probably lucked into everything too, despite the fact he successfully took over California.

Dude for all intents and purposes was basically a supervillain.

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