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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

I'm genuinely unclear on why Obi-Wan would be murdering Dexster Jettster.

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

That is a good-rear end snipe, I gotta say.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Cease to Hope posted:

I'm genuinely unclear on why Obi-Wan would be murdering Dexster Jettster.

Well you see, Jedi lust for the blood of the innocent because FAARRRTTT

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

Grendels Dad posted:

Doctor Evazan in A New Hope

Why am I not surprised the guy who gets 5 seconds of screen time before having his arm cut off has 50 pages of backstory fluff and was Actually Really Important.

kilus aof
Mar 24, 2001


Cease to Hope posted:

I'm genuinely unclear on why Obi-Wan would be murdering Dexster Jettster.

From memory didn't he tell Obi-Wan what planet to go to based on a dart? And Obi-Wan and Yoda want to go into hiding. If I was Obi-Wan I wouldn't want someone out there that had the ability to tell the evil empire that was bent on hunting me where I was based on some mundane item. In fact it would be stupid of Obi-Wan to not merk him.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

kilus aof posted:

In fact it would be stupid of Obi-Wan to not merk him.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





The only conclusion we can draw is that as a powerful force user in his own right, Obi-wan would be unable to eliminate Dexter Jettster.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Megillah Gorilla posted:

Why am I not surprised the guy who gets 5 seconds of screen time before having his arm cut off has 50 pages of backstory fluff and was Actually Really Important.

He's got a death sentence in 12 systems don't you know?

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Cease to Hope posted:

I'm genuinely unclear on why Obi-Wan would be murdering Dexster Jettster.

I'm pretty sure that was a separate thought to the Sleazebaggano thing, and GD was just saying that Dexter was smart

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Guy A. Person posted:

I'm pretty sure that was a separate thought to the Sleazebaggano thing, and GD was just saying that Dexter was smart

Yeah this, just terrible grammar on my part. Though the thread has come up with some nice justifications to cover my shame.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Grendels Dad posted:

Yeah this, just terrible grammar on my part. Though the thread has come up with some nice justifications to cover my shame.

i understood what you meant, the alternative was just too funny

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The one consistent thing is that using the Dark Side is apparently the equivalent to doing a mountain of cocaine.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

sheev and vader do both have kind of hosed up noses, it's true

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Also watched the Mortis arc in Clone Wars and that was some weird poo poo.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Also watched the Mortis arc in Clone Wars and that was some weird poo poo.

which one was that

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




indigi posted:

which one was that

Season 3, the one where they find a big magic planet inhabited by extremely allegorical godlike Force wielders and poo poo gets very meta

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




By far, the worst parts of televised Star Wars are the episodes where they try to make the Force into a Harry Potter/Dungeons & Dragons kind of deal, where allegory and metaphor are discarded in favour of making the Force just some kind of Lawful Good Magic Energy vs. Chaotic Evil Magic Energy lore.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

oh yeah that was weird, the one where Anakin sees the future and decides to go along with it anyway. very odd

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

on review, their noses are less hosed than I recalled

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




indigi posted:

oh yeah that was weird, the one where Anakin sees the future and decides to go along with it anyway. very odd

Pretty sure the whole deal is that he sees the future- specifically, all the hosed up poo poo he's going to do- and goes Dark Side immediately to avoid that. Kind of a big deal is made of the Son being apparently a personification of the Dark Side's destructive impulsiveness as a result of good intentions and unmanaged trauma. Given the Son has plenty of humanising moments and overall seems more in need of someone to talk to than to be killed, it's kinda wild that some Sith Lords (mainly Sidious) are more evil than the Dark Side.

The treatment of the Dark Side is interesting, since most full on Sith master/apprentice relationships we see are the full on cycle of abuse. Right after that, there's the introduction of Savage Oppress, which basically is a full arc about how he's dehumanised (so to speak), broken down, abused and brainwashed into being little more than a living weapon, his attempts to hold onto his decency being actively forced out of him.

Actually, it becomes pretty clear that the Dark Side runs on drama, every single Sith Lord and adjacent being we see is the biggest goddamn drama queen. Which is probably why they suck at long-term planning and cooperation, and Sidious only manages to play the long game well by orchestrating a literal galactic drama with him as the ringmaster.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Ghost Leviathan posted:

Actually, it becomes pretty clear that the Dark Side runs on drama, every single Sith Lord and adjacent being we see is the biggest goddamn drama queen. Which is probably why they suck at long-term planning and cooperation, and Sidious only manages to play the long game well by orchestrating a literal galactic drama with him as the ringmaster.

Lol I like this

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Pretty sure the whole deal is that he sees the future- specifically, all the hosed up poo poo he's going to do- and goes Dark Side immediately to avoid that. Kind of a big deal is made of the Son being apparently a personification of the Dark Side's destructive impulsiveness as a result of good intentions and unmanaged trauma. Given the Son has plenty of humanising moments and overall seems more in need of someone to talk to than to be killed, it's kinda wild that some Sith Lords (mainly Sidious) are more evil than the Dark Side.

The treatment of the Dark Side is interesting, since most full on Sith master/apprentice relationships we see are the full on cycle of abuse. Right after that, there's the introduction of Savage Oppress, which basically is a full arc about how he's dehumanised (so to speak), broken down, abused and brainwashed into being little more than a living weapon, his attempts to hold onto his decency being actively forced out of him.

Actually, it becomes pretty clear that the Dark Side runs on drama, every single Sith Lord and adjacent being we see is the biggest goddamn drama queen. Which is probably why they suck at long-term planning and cooperation, and Sidious only manages to play the long game well by orchestrating a literal galactic drama with him as the ringmaster.

I remember the choice being 1) give up your attachments, stay here to become the new avatar of balance,and let your friends die; or 2) choose personal gratification over the good of the galaxy to save your friends and leave, whereupon this will happen *vision of him becoming Darth Vader* and he chooses to save Ahsoka and Obi Wan


e: also idk how they suck at long term planning when they managed to orchestrate a millennia spanning effort to destroy the Jedi order and take over the galaxy

indigi fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 12, 2021

Caidin
Oct 28, 2011


indigi posted:

I remember the choice being 1) give up your attachments, stay here to become the new avatar of balance,and let your friends die; or 2) choose personal gratification over the good of the galaxy to save your friends and leave, whereupon this will happen *vision of him becoming Darth Vader* and he chooses to save Ahsoka and Obi Wan


e: also idk how they suck at long term planning when they managed to orchestrate a millennia spanning effort to destroy the Jedi order and take over the galaxy

One Sith did that, mostly just the one.

Before Bane cranked up the exclusivity of the brand the average Sith attempt at galactic conquest was getting a big trashy pile of lunatics together and mustering an army of curiously enduring design aesthetics , then having a good running start at it before they slam face first into a wall. Hell, even after the rule of two was put in practice it doesn't look like much got done before the Sheev show started.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008

You can't see me at all...



Fantastic Foreskin posted:

He's got a death sentence in 12 systems don't you know?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbSixPMrT2o

OutsideAngel
May 4, 2008


indigi posted:

I remember the choice being 1) give up your attachments, stay here to become the new avatar of balance,and let your friends die; or 2) choose personal gratification over the good of the galaxy to save your friends and leave, whereupon this will happen *vision of him becoming Darth Vader* and he chooses to save Ahsoka and Obi Wan

Doesn't this happen in the Avatar cartoon? (except there's no eventual payoff when the protagonist chooses his friends)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




OutsideAngel posted:

Doesn't this happen in the Avatar cartoon? (except there's no eventual payoff when the protagonist chooses his friends)

Not really? Aang misunderstands what it means to give up his attachments. (IE, it doesn't mean he CAN'T have any personal relationships or cares- that's mostly his own teenage insecurities talking. In fact, it's actually brought up that the Avatar cannot achieve enlightenment, because they are tied spiritually to the world.)

Also that's not really how the episode goes, the Son is basically 'Join with me now or this will happen *shows becoming Darth Vader*', which is understandably something Anakin can't exactly let go of to the point where the Father has to erase his memory of events to make sure he does become Darth Vader. Honestly it's a pretty interesting take because it's basically Anakin trying to choose the lesser of two evils, as the destiny he's shown is something he very understandably wants to avoid by any means necessary.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



The consequence in Avatar was that Aang got his avatar chi broken for a while, and his ability to access the avatar state would be delayed and it was questionable whether he'd even be able to do it ever again when they were on a pretty tight timetable for stopping the genocide of the entire Earth Kingdom.

It's more analogous to how Yoda wanted Luke to let his friends suffer so he could finish his training to become a Jedi and be actually ready to defeat Vader and the Emperor, and the consequence to that was losing a hand and having to figure out the rest of his training on his own.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Though iirc it's implied that Aang literally has a physical block from accessing the Avatar state until getting thrown around by Ozai gets him a rock in the right point in his spine where Azula had zapped him and unblocks the chi

vvv: When writing sci-fi/fantasy in particular, sometimes that's just exactly what you gotta do. No one gives a poo poo about plot holes as long as the ride is smooth and the themes are consistent, no matter how much the nerds bitch. (because nerds are often the worst at actually understanding narrative themes and tone, what with the whole 'treat media as found footage' attitude)

Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Jul 21, 2021

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

Yeah some poo poo in the third season made no sense but whatever it nailed the vibe

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



I wonder how much of the contemporary criticism of the prequels had anything to do with the post-9/11 wave of jingoism that was seizing the country. Like either from people thinking Lucas was criticizing the government going to war. Or conversely, people who were sick of the jingoism and didn't think that Lucas's movies of the march of the Republic to war weren't direct enough criticism to be directly relevant, since a lot of that got pretty muddled. I don't think much of it was particularly meant to be contemporary commentary, especially since if you dig into the numbers on when Attack of the Clones was written, most of it was pre-9/11, and it even came out before the Iraq war started.

I wasn't really old enough at the time to be really aware of any of the specifics about the criticism of the movies or understand all that much about politics other than things sure seemed to be changing and not for the better. So I'd be interested to hear other people's accounts.

I do know for sure that whether because the surprising contemporary political relevance of the prequels or because of the senate scenes in the prequels just being boring and doing badly with audiences, the sequels seemed to very intentionally steer away towards that, not just trying to be apolitical, but refusing to put anything into perspective in the contexts of some kind of galactic perspective. Which it's not like the original trilogy was all that focused on politics, but it was still there, trucking along in the background. And then since the sequels were trying to springboard off of the original trilogy, that creates some kind of obligation to follow up on the chief accomplishments of the original trilogy. And I just was never satisfied with just checking in with Luke and Leia and Han and just kinda shrugging as to what happened to whatever they were fighting for.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Pretty sure it was because they sucked.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



CainFortea posted:

Pretty sure it was because they sucked.

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





escándalo!

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

SlothfulCobra posted:

I wonder how much of the contemporary criticism of the prequels had anything to do with the post-9/11 wave of jingoism that was seizing the country.

Phantom Menace was summer of 1999 and widely panned. 9/11 didn't really factor into the initial negative reaction.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

on the other hand, it's possible that phantom menace caused 9/11

ungulateman
Apr 18, 2012
Hello I am a person doing a thing via buttons. It's amazing what electronic singnals traveling through space can accomplish.

Makes ya think.

Purple m&ms are the best.

Cease to Hope posted:

Phantom Menace was summer of 1999 and widely panned. 9/11 didn't really factor into the initial negative reaction.

"widely panned" is doing a lot of legwork in this sentence

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Cease to Hope posted:

on the other hand, it's possible that phantom menace caused 9/11

yeah bin laden got the idea from anakin flying into the trade federation ship

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reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Anakin Skywalker outflew all of those nine eleven hijackers like it wasn't even a contest.

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