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Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003






Fallen Rib

Qu Appelle posted:

Weird question.

Is one 'tied' to a sangha? Or to a certain tradition?

Nah. A teacher? Somewhat. A monastery? Yeah. A Sangha or group or so on? Nah not at all. Visit and explore, the Buddha taught 84,000 heaps of Dharma and they are all good.

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Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff



Paramemetic posted:

Nah. A teacher? Somewhat. A monastery? Yeah. A Sangha or group or so on? Nah not at all. Visit and explore, the Buddha taught 84,000 heaps of Dharma and they are all good.

That all is really reassuring.

I don't really have a set teacher yet, and i think that's partially in that it's hard for me to physically get there - so I'm not around. Zoom has made that a lot easier, at least, to talk to people; we do have a virtual 'coffee hour' for sangha members after virtual Chenrezi, and that's good. Nor have I taken any monastic vows, so not tied to any monastery. I do have a White Tara empowerment, but the daily requirement is to just practice bodhichitta, which I try to do anyways. (I did get good advice in that now that I've made Refuge? Don't run around and get all the empowerments you can, just because you can. They're teachings, not Pokemon.)

I'll give the Buddhist Church a visit when they're able to open up in person again.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003


There's definitely an expectation generally that if you invest enough into a tradition to formally become someone's student (which can be formal or informal) that you direct the majority of your energies in that direction if possible, at least for some time. There's definitely nothing against double dipping and generally if you asked anyone in a teaching role, 'hey i'm curious to check out x' or 'hey it's way more convenient for me to go practice at y a few days a week' you'll probably just get nodded at and told to report back how it goes. Depending on a few things you might also get told a bit about how to speak of previous practice.. or not to.

That last bit is primarily an etiquette thing: it's just more respectful to show up and take in the experience rather than barraging out a bunch of comparisons to 'back at the zen center' or whatever. Besides, you can't really experience something without experiencing it from the beginning.

If you want to make a good impression and contribute, come up with some really good questions to ask.

Also I believe the vast majority of people who have practiced a decent while have practiced in multiple places or with different traditions. After you've become fairly grounded in one it becomes a good way to gain some depth of understanding and insight into wtf all goes on under the banner of buddhism.

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff



Herstory Begins Now posted:

There's definitely an expectation generally that if you invest enough into a tradition to formally become someone's student (which can be formal or informal) that you direct the majority of your energies in that direction if possible, at least for some time. There's definitely nothing against double dipping and generally if you asked anyone in a teaching role, 'hey i'm curious to check out x' or 'hey it's way more convenient for me to go practice at y a few days a week' you'll probably just get nodded at and told to report back how it goes. Depending on a few things you might also get told a bit about how to speak of previous practice.. or not to.

That last bit is primarily an etiquette thing: it's just more respectful to show up and take in the experience rather than barraging out a bunch of comparisons to 'back at the zen center' or whatever. Besides, you can't really experience something without experiencing it from the beginning.

If you want to make a good impression and contribute, come up with some really good questions to ask.

Also I believe the vast majority of people who have practiced a decent while have practiced in multiple places or with different traditions. After you've become fairly grounded in one it becomes a good way to gain some depth of understanding and insight into wtf all goes on under the banner of buddhism.

Yeah that's a really good point.

The problem may solve itself when I move, which I'm planning on doing in the next year or so anyways. There's definitely no dissatisfaction with the teachings or the sangha itself; my issue is purely geographical in nature. The one thing I don't want to do is stretch myself way too thin, and then have that be a source of stress.

And! I just checked my sangha's message board, and one of the teachers there posted this resource of Tibetan texts and prayers into various languages, from Tibetan. My time might be better spent studying the texts in here as a dharma practice, for when I can't get to my sangha physically. https://www.lotsawahouse.org/

Qu Appelle fucked around with this message at 23:35 on May 15, 2020

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





I am curious if anyone here has any good resources or favorite recipes for vegetarian cooking. I am thinking perhaps I ought to take the plunge, or at the very least turn meat into an accent rather than a centerpiece. I'm asking y'all instead of just googling it because I am curious about the curated experience and you folks may have come at it with at least some thought to Buddhist practice.

I know it's hard to be 100% vegetarian in Japan even if you try, although hitting 90-95% is easy.

Sleng Teng
May 3, 2009



Nessus posted:

I am curious if anyone here has any good resources or favorite recipes for vegetarian cooking. I am thinking perhaps I ought to take the plunge, or at the very least turn meat into an accent rather than a centerpiece. I'm asking y'all instead of just googling it because I am curious about the curated experience and you folks may have come at it with at least some thought to Buddhist practice.

I know it's hard to be 100% vegetarian in Japan even if you try, although hitting 90-95% is easy.

More vegan oriented but thread is really good:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3729596

e: and not explicitly buddhist, sorry. but the mindset is less western vegan than what I've seen elsewhere because of the op's efforts

Sleng Teng fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jun 6, 2020

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.




Sleng Teng posted:

More vegan oriented but thread is really good:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3729596

e: and not explicitly buddhist, sorry. but the mindset is less western vegan than what I've seen elsewhere because of the op's efforts

Dinos posts in that thread I remember are really good too.

Nude Hoxha Cameo
Sep 29, 2007






Nessus posted:

I am curious if anyone here has any good resources or favorite recipes for vegetarian cooking. I am thinking perhaps I ought to take the plunge, or at the very least turn meat into an accent rather than a centerpiece. I'm asking y'all instead of just googling it because I am curious about the curated experience and you folks may have come at it with at least some thought to Buddhist practice.

I know it's hard to be 100% vegetarian in Japan even if you try, although hitting 90-95% is easy.

Some of this will come down to personal preference, but weíve used this one for years and love it:
https://www.amazon.com/000-Vegetarian-Recipes-Carol-Gelles/dp/0025429655

Madhur Jeffreyís Indian cookbooks arenít solely vegetarian, but have great recipes for vegetable dishes.

We also have a very good middle eastern cookbook that Iíll link if I can find it. Lots of great recipes there as well, though as with the Jaffrey books there are also meat based recipes.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Sleng Teng posted:

More vegan oriented but thread is really good:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3729596

e: and not explicitly buddhist, sorry. but the mindset is less western vegan than what I've seen elsewhere because of the op's efforts
No that's cool and I appreciate it a lot! I'm bookmarking that sucker. I am not coming at this from an anti-vegan mindset so much as a "naw actually milk/butter/eggs are fine" mindset. It is peculiar in some ways how it seems easier to find vegan than ovo-lacto vegetarian material!

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

Anybody involved with or know anything about nichiren or nichiren shōshū Buddhism?

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff



Nude Hoxha Cameo posted:

Some of this will come down to personal preference, but weíve used this one for years and love it:
https://www.amazon.com/000-Vegetarian-Recipes-Carol-Gelles/dp/0025429655

Madhur Jeffreyís Indian cookbooks arenít solely vegetarian, but have great recipes for vegetable dishes.

We also have a very good middle eastern cookbook that Iíll link if I can find it. Lots of great recipes there as well, though as with the Jaffrey books there are also meat based recipes.

I just looked at my account, and I realized that I had enough Kindle credits for this Indian Vegetarian cookbook by Madhur Jaffrey, for free: https://smile.amazon.com/Vegetarian-India-Journey-Through-Cooking/dp/1101874864

Can't wait to try some recipes out of it.

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011


this is an incredibly interesting thread. thank you op

Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003






Fallen Rib

All composite phenomena are impermanent.

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.




Paramemetic posted:

All composite phenomena are impermanent.

i disagree

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006





If SA goes down unexpectedly, it has been a pleasure sharing and learning of the Dharma with all of you.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


Agreed, I enjoyed drawing the waters between animism and buddhism with y'all

Nude Hoxha Cameo
Sep 29, 2007






Hey Paramemetic, while we wait to see what is going to happen here on SA, any thoughts on a Plan B? Potential offsites or discords we could migrate this thread to?

Also, have you been in touch with Renee et al?

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011


Thank you for this resource. It was a cool thread to check. May you guys find enlightenment and liberation

Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003






Fallen Rib

ArfJason posted:

Thank you for this resource. It was a cool thread to check. May you guys find enlightenment and liberation

Thanks ArfJason, you too.

Nude Hoxha Cameo posted:

Hey Paramemetic, while we wait to see what is going to happen here on SA, any thoughts on a Plan B? Potential offsites or discords we could migrate this thread to?

Also, have you been in touch with Renee et al?

I've been in touch with Reene but have no information to share.

For now my suggestion would be to bandwagon into the religion thread discord channel if people intend to organize. Cyrano posted it recently and the link should be valid. I'm phone posting or I'd link it myself.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





This is the link, as a skillful means to facilitate favorable posting rebirth.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006





Nessus posted:

This is the link, as a skillful means to facilitate favorable posting rebirth.

Iím going to be posting from the hungry ghost realm

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Yorkshire Pudding posted:

Iím going to be posting from the hungry ghost realm
I'm going with the hell where sinners are forced to swallow the balls

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


While SA appears to be saved (sorry reincarnailures ), a vibrant discord has sprung up around Religionthread, and we officially invite all of you to come in:

https://discord.gg/kVX5Av

Like it's threadsake it's largely various denominations of christianity, but there's a scattering of jews, buddhists and norse animists as well!

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.




Yorkshire Pudding posted:

I’m going to be posting from the hungry ghost realm

Accidentally went to a pure land. Its cool but nobody here knows how to poo poo post.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



excellent work on the OP there.


Is this a good place to ask about non-dual experiences?

Do the more esoteric buddhisims bring in "tricks" to advance toward enlightenment?

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





One of my friends who is a monk is also a magician so I guess so

zhar
May 3, 2019



echinopsis posted:

Do the more esoteric buddhisims bring in "tricks" to advance toward enlightenment?

well karmamudra is a thing but i'm not sure you're allowed to pay for it

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.




Buddhas hate him! One weird trick to achieve enlightenment that boddhisatva's don't want you to know

Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003






Fallen Rib

echinopsis posted:

excellent work on the OP there.


Is this a good place to ask about non-dual experiences?

Do the more esoteric buddhisims bring in "tricks" to advance toward enlightenment?

Great place up ask about non-dual experiences.

Yes, esoteric Buddhism has all sorts of tricks but they're mostly just "do Buddhism" and "do Buddhism while also doing fancy meditation" and then a smidge of "do Buddhism while doing sorcery."

Lmao at all other responses

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Paramemetic posted:

Great place up ask about non-dual experiences.

Cool, thanks.


I think Iíve experienced ego loss on psychedelics before, even when I was younger I experienced something on mushrooms that later I described as if I had become what I was looking at. But Iím not sure if these are the same. On a different psychedelic trip I experienced realising that everything was made of the same thing - consciousness

But as much as I think I get what a non dual experience is, I certainly canít dial it in, which makes me ask some questions:

Will it be obvious when or if itís happening? Is it possible someone experiences it all the time and doesnít realise. Itís not just ďzoning outĒ?

Do thoughts still happen?

From a cognitive point of view, whatís happening to all the mental processes that seem to have stopped or been bypassed?

Does it breed benefit outside of itself?

Is it pure contentment?

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





I apologize for not having answers for you, echi, I had another question come up in an unrelated conversation.

What would the status of individuals whose brains were somehow cross-linked or put together in a Borg Collective kind of situation be, in Buddhism? I feel from a gut analysis that you're basically just creating a much larger composite being and probably visiting a lot of harm and anguish on the individuals if it isn't consensual.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Nessus posted:

I apologize for not having answers for you, echi,

how dare you

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





echinopsis posted:

how dare you


No I just don't have any theological experience there. But I saw your questions!

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004



Iím joking! I was just surprised to see you apologise for not being able to answer them because, well, I didnít expect you to!

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





Nessus posted:

What would the status of individuals whose brains were somehow cross-linked or put together in a Borg Collective kind of situation be, in Buddhism? I feel from a gut analysis that you're basically just creating a much larger composite being and probably visiting a lot of harm and anguish on the individuals if it isn't consensual.

You're not going to get an "in Buddhism" answer for this because you're going to be able to square most any answer you come up with with buddhism unless you build in an incompatible metaphysics (eg "humans have direct epistemic access to something")

Someone could certainly come up with an answer informed by their practice, but another buddhist could come up with a different answer (and probably did, I'll be surprised if indian buddhist academics from like 1500 years ago haven't said a bunch of stuff about this)

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





FWIW my gut goes with "you can call it a new composite being or a linking together of pre-existing composite brings, but either is strictly-speaking incorrect because it assumes permanence or real substance to conditioned phenomena including me, others, and whatever you want to call the set {me, the others}

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Yeah, the context of the person I was talking to was that they were drawing from some kind of singulitarian well that at a certain level of complexity of thought, or speed of thought, some entity could either be completely impossible for a human to understand, or would be able to think so fast and so good that it would be able to predict the human's own thoughts and thus completely outfox them.

I didn't really understand the importance of the latter part but it seemed to play a large role. My impression is that if you get to the point of some kind of lord cybertrex 9000 entity that has that much of a big brain, you might could consider it as a minor asura, but it would still be subject to all the problems of any other sentient being.

e: as for the permanence thing I have read most of the metaphysics as saying, these categories have practical utility but not absolute utility; I am a different organism from my dog, but we both arose from prior conditions (which at some point in Earth's pre-history were shared), share much, and so forth. There is no ultimate binary division.

Nessus fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 8, 2020

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





Nessus posted:

My impression is that if you get to the point of some kind of lord cybertrex 9000 ... but it would still be subject to all the problems of any other sentient being.

e: as for the permanence ... There is no ultimate binary division.

Word, I agree on both points

It's kinda weird - I ended up a buddhist in large part because I have a pile of metaphysical and epistemic commitments that I'm pretty serious about (as in, I'm comfortable saying "this is how poo poo works"). I was reading a bunch of buddhist stuff for funsies and thinking "oh, yeah, this is literally true" whereas pretty much every other religion's commitments were either false or you had to work really really hard to make their sentences not false (and ultimately really do a lot of gymnastics to make it work).

Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003






Fallen Rib

echinopsis posted:

Cool, thanks.


I think Iíve experienced ego loss on psychedelics before, even when I was younger I experienced something on mushrooms that later I described as if I had become what I was looking at. But Iím not sure if these are the same. On a different psychedelic trip I experienced realising that everything was made of the same thing - consciousness

But as much as I think I get what a non dual experience is, I certainly canít dial it in, which makes me ask some questions:

Will it be obvious when or if itís happening? Is it possible someone experiences it all the time and doesnít realise. Itís not just ďzoning outĒ?

Do thoughts still happen?

From a cognitive point of view, whatís happening to all the mental processes that seem to have stopped or been bypassed?

Does it breed benefit outside of itself?

Is it pure contentment?

Okay so there are some layers here.

First layer is, don't make the mistake of thinking that psychedelic experiences are comparable here or a useful frame of reference. They can be, but I've more often seen people confuse their psychedelic experiences for The Experience You're Looking For and think that Buddhist methods are trying to reproduce those states.

The other ones are tricky to answer because you can't give a dualistic answer to a question of non-dual states. I can't say thoughts happen in a non-dual enlightened state because that would mean thoughts are occurring in a dualistic mode (happening, as opposed to not-happening) or what the cognitive processes involved are. The physical body of someone who has achieved an enlightened state still go through normal processes, including the brain - but I don't necessarily think that the brain and the mind are are linked as people would like to believe. The brain is physical hardware that addresses a lot of sensation and perception including the embodied experience of thoughts (these being a class of perception) but we don't really have a good reason to associate this with mind itself.

The unfortunately probably-unsatisfactory answer that Jigten Sumgon gave to this question, in the Single Intention, is basically "play to find out what happens." You can't express the enlightened, non-dual experience using a dualistic modality like answering these questions. It can only be experienced. When you have an experience that you can't express, that's maybe a glimpse, but don't dwell on it. Trust in the method to get you where you need to be and don't get distracted pursuing after things that can be pursued.

So that's the Buddhist answer. From a Western transpersonal psychology perspective, I'm going to say: It's not just "zoning out," it's not "flow," but it is superficially similar to both in that it's an altered state of consciousness of which the present goings-on of our lives are merely a fragment. That is, this experience that we're having now doesn't necessarily go away, but our view of it and our understanding and engagement with it fundamentally changes. I can't speak to the enlightened state from experience, but this is my take on what it could very well be like from a scientific perspective.

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Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Achmed Jones posted:

Word, I agree on both points

It's kinda weird - I ended up a buddhist in large part because I have a pile of metaphysical and epistemic commitments that I'm pretty serious about (as in, I'm comfortable saying "this is how poo poo works"). I was reading a bunch of buddhist stuff for funsies and thinking "oh, yeah, this is literally true" whereas pretty much every other religion's commitments were either false or you had to work really really hard to make their sentences not false (and ultimately really do a lot of gymnastics to make it work).
I'm in a pretty similar boat. I have found things I have disagreed with - most of which have been ancillary and quite plausibly an answer suited for the time and place but not For Eternity. I have not found anything that has felt false.

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