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Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
did some stallin and equivocatin' and ended up getting this for a very good price


loooots of sounds and really flexible routing. you can do really weird poo poo with it

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Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
^^^ so i spent all evening playing with this and getting used to the interface.

it's definitely vintage 2008 or so, but it's really, really cool.

the amp models are absolutely dead on and it really does feel like you're playing through a cranked amp. its got fenders, marshalls, even some soldano and mesa models. The only thing it's missing is a jc120 type model for my clean noodling stuff, but i got a pretty good patch going with one of the fenders for that.

the fx are fun and sound good.

oh and its fully usb'd up - you plug this thing in and it presents a new audio device (even on new macs - avid updated drivers recently). it actually has like four stereo pair input devices and an output. one of the inputs is the dry guitar before any processing, one is the amped and effected one, and then a couple others for i forget what. anyways what you can do is record the dry guitar to your software and later on, actually re-amp it by sending that back through this thing. so if you decide that you want to play this riff through a plexi instead of a jcm800, you dont have to re-record it, just run your riff back through it and record the new output.

quite excited with this as it also works as just a plain usb audio output device for the computer so i last night i was just watchin youtubes and playing along with nothing more than headphones plugged into the front panel output jack. really fun.

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
hey i wrote a lovely little song!

garageband is fun.

https://voca.ro/1mxF6hbynJh5

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020
i decided to embrace the noodling nature of my music creation, accepting the fact that I have no interest in creating “songs”. just play some spacey chords on my guitar drenched in reverb and delay.

with that in mind, should I get into euro rack? 8-ball says ‘maybe’

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



with all the guitar talk i decided to do some stuff

still a work in progress as i'm messing with sounds, esp guitars, and have another synth part to add as well

https://soundcloud.com/poltzart/progish-wip4

i could seriously variate on the lead guitar for basically forever, it's so fun

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



Jonny 290 posted:

hey i wrote a lovely little song!

garageband is fun.

https://voca.ro/1mxF6hbynJh5

awesome

kept waiting for the vocals to come in tho ha

Tweezer Reprise
Aug 6, 2013

It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.
I legitimately can't wait for Musescore 4 to come out. When it does, my workflow will immediately become like 10x as coherent

Kernel Sanders posted:

should I get into euro rack? 8-ball says ‘maybe’
yes
needs a fun synth lead!
:hellyeah:

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
i will go on record as saying that i have never once in my life been made aware of somebody writing a _song_ with a bunch of eurorack gear. every time it's "look at this poo poo its loving crazy" and then them plugging cables in and just letting an arp run while they twiddle a cutoff or decay knob. but if you enjoy it and will use the gear, go for it

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



im sure there's people that use their crazy setup to make a patch and then play it with a midi keyboard and/or sequencer like a normal synth, but yeah it mostly seems to be 100% for Fuckin Around

while i love fuckin around i'll stick to not spending that kinda money and space

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020
I’m at a point in life where I’ve come to terms that my “musicianship” is purely masturbatory - I simply enjoy making sounds for myself and having to make “songs” makes the whole thing into a project and kills all the fun.

not 100% set on euro rack, my secondary plan is 3-4 cheap behringer knockoffs with a ndlr controlling them.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Jonny 290 posted:

i will go on record as saying that i have never once in my life been made aware of somebody writing a _song_ with a bunch of eurorack gear. every time it's "look at this poo poo its loving crazy" and then them plugging cables in and just letting an arp run while they twiddle a cutoff or decay knob. but if you enjoy it and will use the gear, go for it

to be fair, this is all synth hardware now. daws and VSTs have obviated basically all physical modules and synths, unless you’re all in on analog-only.

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
Yeah. the only real reasons I picked up that 11rack is that it's very well built and sometimes i want to twiddle real knobs, dont want to tie myself to a computer, and i figured it would have a very good audio interface via usb (it does!)

Guitar Rig blows it away with 1 hand tied behind its back, but i don't want to drag a laptop to any possible shows just for processin'


Oh and it's got a nice tuner. like, really nice. I got intonation set up on two guitars this weekend and they sound so much better

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


yeah I only have a couple physical modules cuz I like playing with them. they’re fun for sketching some stuff out and mucking around, but actual composition, production, and synth patch exploration happens in a daw and vsts.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
counterpoint: colin benders

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4hUrCPqD7s&t=2536s

(it takes 42 minutes and some for the music to start)

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


Laserjet 4P posted:

(it takes 42 minutes and some for the music to start)

this should be written in huge large block letters on every modular synth build

anyway here is one weird trick haters don't want you to know. in order to write a modular synth song, here is what you have to do:
1. record yourself loving around and having fun with the thing for 10-20 minutes
2. open the recording up in a daw
3. automate the fade-in and fade-out to something like 30-60 seconds (optional: fade using some hi-pass or low-pass filter)
4. done, you have written a modular synth song

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


another weird trick is you should get vcv rack (https://vcvrack.com/) and play around with it before you dump money into a physical modular thing

im_sorry
Jan 15, 2006

(9999)
Ultra Carp

Kernel Sanders posted:

I’m at a point in life where I’ve come to terms that my “musicianship” is purely masturbatory - I simply enjoy making sounds for myself and having to make “songs” makes the whole thing into a project and kills all the fun.

I once heard the term "narcissistic musical jack-off project" for stuff like this, and I proudly refer to my own project as "my narcissistic musical jack-off project".

Please don't steal the original NFT art.. I haven't put it on the Cosbycoin blockchain yet....
https://soundcloud.com/the_door_is_scary/you-must-be-explaining-it-wrong

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Jonny 290 posted:

i will go on record as saying that i have never once in my life been made aware of somebody writing a _song_ with a bunch of eurorack gear. every time it's "look at this poo poo its loving crazy" and then them plugging cables in and just letting an arp run while they twiddle a cutoff or decay knob. but if you enjoy it and will use the gear, go for it

it works if the style of music is ambient. there’s playlists on spotify that give some good examples.

is it better than someone making ambient music properly? maybe not. BUT as far as a way to generate endless amounts of ambient that’s different from what already exists, it’s an efficient tool.



but generally it’s fun for the person making it, but that’s about it.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


thats really why im more interested in learning to compose than in going whole hog on synth tech

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
For sure. VCV Rack is an ENORMOUS resource and it's just awesome. I'm not even that complex with my sound making but it's so good.

I used to be in a two man ambient / noise group and i played electric screwdriver guitar through three delays and two reverbs so i can get resourceful with it heh

really give me a two oscillator subtractive synth, a wavetable synth (these can be the same), a drum-oriented sample player and a scale-oriented sample player and i'm happy as a clam

I've been trying to figure out how to integrate renoise into the "new" cubase setup but i think i might keep my beep boop and guitar honk projects separate for now. we'll see. i dont wanna do "electro rock"

NonzeroCircle
Apr 12, 2010

El Camino
Renoise Rewires into Cubase really well I've found.
I'll tend to make nonsense choppy beats in Renoise then record them into Cubase as audio and go from there.

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



just about done with it now i think

added some more synth for good times

https://soundcloud.com/poltzart/progish-wip5

e: the actual hardest part of making music is naming stuff

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



v simple song i made this morning waiting on an instrument to run and produce results woo

https://soundcloud.com/poltzart/waiting

killhamster
Apr 15, 2004

SCAMMER
Hero Member

Jonny 290 posted:

i will go on record as saying that i have never once in my life been made aware of somebody writing a _song_ with a bunch of eurorack gear. every time it's "look at this poo poo its loving crazy" and then them plugging cables in and just letting an arp run while they twiddle a cutoff or decay knob. but if you enjoy it and will use the gear, go for it

this is how i've always seen it, "oh cool you made it fart, where's the song"

i haev a few virtual modulars and i mostly understand the concepts and i guess appreciate the freedom but if you give me a synth with a real workflow and like a mod matrix i can dial in the sounds i want much more quickly and get to composing and arranging much more quickly. idk they're just not for me. ive never been impressed when someone's like "hey check out this patch"

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020

killhamster posted:

ive never been impressed when someone's like "hey check out this patch"

can’t they be satisfying just as knobtwidding funboxes rather than gear you make music with?

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP

Kernel Sanders posted:

can’t they be satisfying just as knobtwidding funboxes rather than gear you make music with?

just dumping here. So in the mid to late 90s computers started to get more powerful, and we got things like Rubberduck



and Rebirth



And they were so heavily poo poo on by electronic music people. "They don't accurately capture the nuance of the actual TB-303!"

And that was pretty true. They weren't a 303. But they were close enough for amateur work, and it was frankly stunning to have access to that stuff. I opened a punk show around 2000 literally dragging my compaq desktop and a 14" CRT on stage and just doodling in Rubberduck with some drum tracks, which was really fun because rubberduck had the unique feature of allowing you to assign a game joystick's axes to cutoff/resonance so I was able to actually do fun stuff besides "click the PLAY button on this pattern".

The same thing happened with aaaaaany software stuff that touched a guitar. I remember jaw-dropping when i read the october '96 Guitar World magazine article on trent reznor at the phrase "And He Processes The Guitars Through An Computer" and thought "holy poo poo what potential". But until like the mid 00s, all the Rock Dudes poo poo on it. because we didn't quite have enough power to faithfully emulate a 1967 fender twin so it did sound kind of flat and synthetic.

like the first Guitar Rig release was hot garbage. the first Reason was trash and sounded like loving cardboard.

and then we finally got enough processing power bouncing around that people could code in the nuance. like this avid eleven rack, that new thing i bought? that was released in 2009. and it has z e r o latency and has enough power that it accurately emulates everything you 'feel' in a Real Guitar setup, down to the input impedance of the jack on the front panel. Seriously I can set it to 1M ohms or 270k ohms to match the exact circuitry that a boomer era guitar amp had hardwired all the way through. It models 'speaker breakup' which is the phenomenon you get when you put a 100w guitar head into a 2x12 cabinet with 30 watt speakers; the speaker cones literally develop standing waves at certain drive volumes and you get harmonics you can't really get anywhere else in the signal chain. it does all of that and it was like less than a thousand dollars at its original release. They have a model of eddie van halen's amplifier, which was a Marshall head that he ran at 90 volts input through a Variac because for the first two albums they could only get lovely small club gigs and his full stack at 120v was Just Too Loud. (this is the 'brown sound' btw)

That kind of poo poo is mindblowing and with my good IEMs i sit there and play and it's honestly just like i'm playing a telecaster through a 70s era fender super reverb with all the knobs set to Explode. I've played those setups irl, and this gives the same sound. It's dead on.

So, software is nearing Perfection now. The old gripes about Rebirth are dead, because they are literally modeling the behavior of that one output FET amplifier transistor in the TB-303 and how it happened, due to its layout on the circuit board, to yeet a couple microvolts via PCB leakage to the input, giving that squeal that the gripers said wasn't there in the primitive software. So yeah, you can get a replication of any hardware musical instrument down to the electron level now.

So where does this leave modular stuff? IMO, here's the sell. There aren't any presets. I have battled for twenty years with this workflow:

* Install new plugin
* Flip through the 372 presets included
* "that sounds okay. Let me tweak the cutoff envelope down 5% so i don't feel guilty, and then write a song with it."

Modular setups don't suffer from this. You're stapling poo poo together from different designers and manufacturers, wiring things up yourself, and then "uhhh ok well i guess i'll set all the knobs to 50% and see what it sounds like and i'll go from there."

They have incredible power in this regard! You aren't using somebody else's patches because you can't. it's tactile, it's analog, you can't save patches so you get a slightly different sound every time you flip the power switch. it provides you a sandbox with an opaque tent around it; sure, people share 'modular patches' on forums that are just photographs of how the knobs are set, but due to the very nature of eurorack setups, nobody's gonna have the exact same rig as anybody else (and if they do buy every single thing that Famous Musician uses in their eurorack they are missing the god damned point). I think that they have a huge potential for creativity and originality, and that's why it disappoints me when people just doodle on them aimlessly.

killhamster
Apr 15, 2004

SCAMMER
Hero Member

Kernel Sanders posted:

can’t they be satisfying just as knobtwidding funboxes rather than gear you make music with?

I mean I guess, it’s just not meant for me. I wanna make finished tracks that are polished as gently caress

also Jonny’s right. having a fuckoff expensive fart generator and not doing something actually impressive with it is kinda disappointing

if you wanna buy these things and twiddle knobs that’s cool too, I just have different goals & motivations :matters:

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
Incidentally, rebirth is full on free now, and it's a whole lot of fun to play with. The fan controller IC on your 2021 era computer has enough processing power for it, you won't even see it show up in htop. Go beep and boop around a bit.

https://vstwarehouse.com/d/rebirth-rb-338/

MrQueasy
Nov 15, 2005

Probiot-ICK
My parents are moving to Texas, so they gave me my childhood piano and now I'm in for $300+ to see if this crappy mid-60s mass-produced console piano can hold a440 and/or if anything can be done about the inconsistent action.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Jonny 290 posted:

Incidentally, rebirth is full on free now, and it's a whole lot of fun to play with. The fan controller IC on your 2021 era computer has enough processing power for it, you won't even see it show up in htop. Go beep and boop around a bit.

https://vstwarehouse.com/d/rebirth-rb-338/

signing up for the download doesn't seem to do anything in terms of actually providing a download, and profile page is uhhh

killhamster
Apr 15, 2004

SCAMMER
Hero Member
rebirth is where I got my start with pc based production, and now I have a bunch of better emulators and a tb-03 & I hardly use 303 sounds now, go figure

reason has improved a shitload since I pirated it like 20 years ago tho

toiletbrush
May 17, 2010

Jonny 290 posted:

I think that they have a huge potential for creativity and originality, and that's why it disappoints me when people just doodle on them aimlessly.
what's wrong with just aimlessly doodling though? Like it's pretty hilarious to see deadmau5 use 5+ figure's worth of modular gear to make extremely middle of the road electronica but if he can afford it and enjoys it then meh..whatever.

OTOH there's folk like Richard Devine and Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith who do amazing poo poo entirely on eurorack, or more famous composers like Hans Zimmer, NiN, Aphex Twin etc who use them in ways where it's not immediately obvious. The power of modular is mainly in the fact that you can parameterise and then tweak, modulate or sequence *everything*, from the notes and timbres to the room size and shimmer of your reverb, the scale your baroque-style counterpoint accompaniment quantises to, or the insanity level of your generative jungle snare-rush patch - you've got the flexibility to experiment or 'compose' in ways that just aren't possible in a traditional sequencer.

The result of all that isn't necessarily going to jump out to a listener as 'holy poo poo that must have been done on modular, no way could a traditional sequencer do that!' Like, the other day I made a patch that produced *gorgeous*, mostly looping but gently shifting melodies by having the output of a bunch of uncorrelated LFOs combined in random ways get sent to a pair of pitch quantisers (one for upper voice, one for lower) If you heard the recording you'd just think it was a nice melody, but there's no way in hell I could have 'written' that tune myself in Logic or whatever.

As for hardware vs software, there's tons of advantages to both, most of which are really obvious, but its deffo worth playing with VCV or Reaktor to see if it works before spending much money on hardware modular gear.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

FWIW looks like archive.org has rebirth

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



Penisface posted:

ok hold on, if you have everything running in vsts, can you not tell your daw to render the final result non-realtime? i.e. you should not suffer from any buffer overrun-underrun pops and clicks and neither should you have to record it in several passes because your daw should be smart enough to sort all that out by itself

figured this out

it was dorico trying to overlap some notes with it's "randomize start time" and instruments that will only play one sound at a time, so it would send the off for the previous note as it was trying to play the next one and do nothing

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Jonny 290 posted:

And they were so heavily poo poo on by electronic music people. "They don't accurately capture the nuance of the actual TB-303!"

grognards still exist but fortunately they're dying out by the day, though some folks have gotten charmed by the whole "dawless" thing as if there wasn't a default way to make music before vsts

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


dawless has the romanticism and the idea that having physical modules makes it easier to focus, but in practice the lack of long-form sequencing and automation really fucks you, especially if you’re not a performer

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


gassy answer to the above: lol buy a sequencer and stuff

toiletbrush
May 17, 2010
"8 steps ought to be enough for anybody" - bill gates (lol, 'gates')

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Zam Wesell
Mar 22, 2009

[Zam is suddenly shot in the neck by a toxic dart; Anakin and Obi-Wan see a "rocket-man" take off and fly away, and Zam dies]

Pollyanna posted:

dawless has the romanticism and the idea that having physical modules makes it easier to focus, but in practice the lack of long-form sequencing and automation really fucks you, especially if you’re not a performer

good post.

the world only needs so many 16-step long boring techno music

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