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Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


been thinkin a bit about my creative process. i freeze up when i think about iteration, and i only ever really come up with stuff when i'm, like...half asleep. or in a particular mental state. which is to say that everything i think of shows up when i'm trying to go to bed!!!!

so i gotta figure out how to get in that mental state at will. and i suspect it has something to do with distractions, time of day, fatigue, adderall, coffee...idk.

i know i can do it, i just have almost no control over it and it gives me a lot of anxiety. not sure what to do about that.

Woolwich Bagnet posted:

I tend to just start with something simple and every 4 6 or 8 measures or whatever build on it with harmonies, variations etc. Then once I've done that for a while I go back and start moving things around based on how I want it to build or move around. Or I go through my old ideas and see if something fits.

i'm actually far more likely to add new ideas rather than iterate on existing ones. here's an example track that i don't think i've shared before:

https://soundcloud.com/retrocombine/i-should-really-learn-how-to-name-things

note how many distinct musical ideas are present, and how i don't really reuse much. and even despite that, it goes maybe 52 seconds before repeating. and then i listen to stuff like this that gets a solid like 2 minutes out of a handful of ideas. like goddamn.

quote:

If you have a ton of stuff in that small span already try breaking out each instrument or progression of notes separately. Maybe remove or add some here and there to see how it sounds.

oh i've definitely run into this a lot. like i can always bolt on more random poo poo in like the same key or whatever, but more is not better, and i have no idea what actually goes well together. the answer of "what should i put here?" is an extremely open-ended question, which doesn't make me feel free. or more precisely, it makes me feel more free to fail, not more free to succeed.

quote:

Sometimes though I just hit a brick wall of welp I have no idea where to go next so I put it down and come back to it later. Sometimes I'll put that new thing down and it doesn't flow at all so I put it in my ideas files.

same. to be fair, i do like what i make! but just because i like something doesn't mean it's actually good, or that anyone else likes it. it's really hard to come to terms with that and build that confidence, because i see my own stuff as pretty goddamn dorky, stereotypical, derivative, or embarrassing.

whenever i think about music, i keep getting the image in my head of someone listening to my stuff and going "this is really lame".

QuantumPotato posted:

same. unless i'm doing something for a specific purpose (like someone asks me for a lil ambient loop to go in the background of a video or something) i'll do the Bill Watterson thing, i'll spend a couple hours improvising and record the whole session. when i'm done for the day, i delete the recording. occasionally i'll chop a piece out and send it to some friends for feedback, but taking away the pressure of "making a record" has made me infinitely happier with the act of making music. i have occasionally thought of live streaming the sessions though, but that feels like too much work.

"making a record" is kinda pointless honestly, because...

echinopsis posted:

Iím a bit the same. Iíve kind of realised no one really wants to hear my recorded music. Everyone has the entirety of recorded music in their pocket these days, and itís impossible for me to compete against it.

...there's just so much competition that tracks and songs on their own don't shine. there's a reason most tunes people like these days are like themes or soundtracks, or introduced to them by something or someone they already like. they have a meaningful context that brings the music past "just a song".

hell, just ask me about all the music i only know about and enjoyed because it was in a video game or because a vtuber covered it!

you wanna get your stuff out there and get people to listen and get hooked? compose for something. a game, a movie, a tv show, a video series, a streamer, an anthem or something. music in and of itself just doesn't end up mattering in our world, which utterly sucks but that's what we have to deal with now

quote:

So, yeah, itís just about playing and enjoying, and in this case it has an overall purpose, but recorded music ainít that.

it's hard to balance "i want to enjoy what i make" and "i want to do something that isn't pointless". i've thought a lot about why i'm trying to learn to compose and produce and play my instrument, and i keep coming to the conclusion that none of this has any point at all. nobody's going to listen to me, i'm not going to advance the field, i may not even come up with anything particularly unique. i might like what i put together, but i also see all its flaws. so...why am i doing this?

Achmed Jones posted:

i get stuck and frustrated and churn out another 50sec thing that id like to turn into a track but don't know how

big same

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Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Pollyanna posted:

you wanna get your stuff out there and get people to listen and get hooked? compose for something. a game, a movie, a tv show, a video series, a streamer, an anthem or something. music in and of itself just doesn't end up mattering in our world, which utterly sucks but that's what we have to deal with now

i know im not In Tune With Youth Culture or whatever, but i think this is so, so wrong. sure, some people don't give a gently caress, but you're always gonna have whatever the equivalent of goth kids or scene kids or hip hop kids or whatever - the 16-25 year olds that make music their identity and _really, really care_. you even get this online, eg vaporwave and related genres. like, sure, composing for something is one way. but that's not how vektroid or most any of the dozens or hundreds of artists in that group of genres did it. i get it that you're into the whole vtuber/game composition/etc thing so that's what you see, but dont let that blind you to the rest of the musical landscape.

we're old now, we're going to miss everything that isn't in our faces. that doesn't mean it isn't there though.

quote:

it's hard to balance "i want to enjoy what i make" and "i want to do something that isn't pointless". i've thought a lot about why i'm trying to learn to compose and produce and play my instrument, and i keep coming to the conclusion that none of this has any point at all. nobody's going to listen to me, i'm not going to advance the field, i may not even come up with anything particularly unique. i might like what i put together, but i also see all its flaws. so...why am i doing this?

i do it cause i like creating things and it's fun to make music and jam. when it stops being fun, i stop. unfortunately, a lot of the time it stops being fun for me when it gets hard. but my second reason is that i want my son to see me be bad at something, and try hard, and get better. right now he thinks im good at guitar though (lol he is _so wrong_, but he's 5) but he tends to give up when things get hard (as do i) and i want to show him a better way

QuantumPotato
Feb 3, 2005

Fallen Rib

Pollyanna posted:

"making a record" is kinda pointless honestly, because...

...there's just so much competition that tracks and songs on their own don't shine. there's a reason most tunes people like these days are like themes or soundtracks, or introduced to them by something or someone they already like. they have a meaningful context that brings the music past "just a song".

i think different strokes for different folks. I don't get much joy out of making records, but i have a friend who does. He loves the whole process of forcing himself work within constraints. But to the same end, when he's done, he'll just release it for free/$1 downloads on bandcamp. He makes his own cassettes to hand out to his friends. That's where he finds joy. You can do a thing for the sheer love of doing the thing w/o having to worry about it being a way to make money or klout. gently caress anyone who says otherwise.

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
yeah one of the most fun times i had a while back was when i did an entire EP over about a month on renoise, only allowing myself to work on it when i was riding the bus to and from work

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
one thing thatís helping me along is embracing the creating of all of the things along with it. Iím
doing some electronics that are basically a sign for my music, and same with digital graphics. videoing myself playing. youtubeís. itís an endless pool of creative which enables me to not get burned out on one aspect of it

I have massive challenges trying to feel worthwhile in life, but in the interim, when I have that creative drive, Iím not worried about that. maybe that is the solution. or part of it.

I am worried a lot about failing, about not actually performing live, or having such a bad experience it puts me off, and then this road of happiness ends lol

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


Pollyanna posted:

been thinkin a bit about my creative process. i freeze up when i think about iteration, and i only ever really come up with stuff when i'm, like...half asleep. or in a particular mental state. which is to say that everything i think of shows up when i'm trying to go to bed!!!!

https://cdn-resources.ableton.com/resources/uploads/makingmusic/MakingMusic_DennisDeSantis.pdf

i read this on a train, it's got a bunch of easily digestible ideas that you can understand in a couple of minutes and spend the other couple of minutes trying it out

really the key part is forcing yourself to try it out. ymmv - my creative juices open the moment i force myself to open up ableton and noodle something, anything. probably because i am a very simple person and i get excited at putting an arpeggiator through a delay and i can listen to it for hours

Pollyanna posted:

so i gotta figure out how to get in that mental state at will. and i suspect it has something to do with distractions, time of day, fatigue, adderall, coffee...idk.

i know i can do it, i just have almost no control over it and it gives me a lot of anxiety. not sure what to do about that.

i remember a speech by john cleese about doing creative stuff. i mean i dont remember much but his key point was that it takes something like 15-30 minutes for you to get into the zone of creativity. so you have to fight the urge of doing procrastination stuff or twiddling or distractions. i know this might sound like a tall order if you have anyway issues with being able to focus, but i feel like taking some existing methods and mental tricks and trying them out can help you (see also pomodoro method)

Pollyanna posted:

oh i've definitely run into this a lot. like i can always bolt on more random poo poo in like the same key or whatever, but more is not better, and i have no idea what actually goes well together. the answer of "what should i put here?" is an extremely open-ended question, which doesn't make me feel free. or more precisely, it makes me feel more free to fail, not more free to succeed.

same. to be fair, i do like what i make! but just because i like something doesn't mean it's actually good, or that anyone else likes it. it's really hard to come to terms with that and build that confidence, because i see my own stuff as pretty goddamn dorky, stereotypical, derivative, or embarrassing.

whenever i think about music, i keep getting the image in my head of someone listening to my stuff and going "this is really lame".

imo this is a long term fight on several fronts.
first i think its helpful to admit that you as a person have your likes, dislikes, an artistic vision - i.e. deep down you know when you hear good music that touches your soul. this is not really a hard fight, it comes naturally as you listen and find stuff you enjoy.
second, you probably will not be able to immediately create music of your own that you really really like in a way that compares with your idols. that's fine, just keep on trucking and learning different tools-methods, learning about yourself and how you prefer to work. this is probably the hardest thing to do and keep up over time.
third, and this is really important, you need to accept that nobody else hears your music as you do. you as the author have all these ideas and memories and experiences that you have associated with the material - me as the listener i am coming with my own context and fresh ears. so many examples where people become famous due to some track they absolutely hate and are not happy with. key point is probably to keep it to yourself and when someone comes to you and says "hey cool track", don't reply with "thanks, but it sucks"

Pollyanna posted:

"making a record" is kinda pointless honestly, because...

...there's just so much competition that tracks and songs on their own don't shine. there's a reason most tunes people like these days are like themes or soundtracks, or introduced to them by something or someone they already like. they have a meaningful context that brings the music past "just a song".

i mostly listen to long form stuff - dj mixes, full albums. i like putting on something and being immersed in it for 20-40-60 minutes. that's what i expect a record to do - take me to a trip through the artist's cool world of music. just listening to a 3 minute track, no matter how good, is like taking a small bite but leaving the rest of the delicious meal untouched

Pollyanna posted:

it's hard to balance "i want to enjoy what i make" and "i want to do something that isn't pointless". i've thought a lot about why i'm trying to learn to compose and produce and play my instrument, and i keep coming to the conclusion that none of this has any point at all. nobody's going to listen to me, i'm not going to advance the field, i may not even come up with anything particularly unique. i might like what i put together, but i also see all its flaws. so...why am i doing this?

that's a chicken and egg problem - unless you magically luck out with your first tracks, you're not going to achieve much at all. if you put in the time and work to learn and compose and produce then at some point you will have a lightbulb moment of "hey i really enjoy doing this even if nobody else ever hears this" you may also have a lightbulb moment of "gah gently caress this poo poo, better do something else", but i don't think there is any way to find out other than throw yourself into it and give it a shot

it's not like you would be the first great artist that has massive episodes of self doubt before they made it big

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



i literally do not care who listens to my music or not or who enjoys it or not. i make it for myself (and sometimes friends and family). if i like it then that's all i care about. its a hobby for me and a fun creative outlet. i think if it was my job it'd take the joy out of it.

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


yeah thats what david lynch said - most important thing is that you like the process of making art, all the rest is secondary. find a good process of making art, and then your innate tastes materialize more and more as you get better at what you do

JNCO BILOBA
Nov 22, 2005

I love the 20 minute rule - 20 minutes a day for me spent doing something creativity related. If itís sorting my sample library or auditioning sounds, cool. If itís reading tutorials or forums cool. If itís actual composition or mixing or whatever, cool too. If Iím feeling it and want to go longer after 20 mins, I let it ride. If not, Iíve still done my 20 for the day in an area I felt like focusing and can feel less anxious or guilty and still keep it fun. I know the hustle culture would frown on a casual approach but for me itís about the journey and enjoyment, and hopefully that comes across in my eventual creations.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
release an EP every week regardless of the quality of the content

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002

Pillbug
hella gassing for an mpc live ii right now, a week after the black friday sales have ended

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
self-christmas comes early

I love my jazz 5, but i wanted to gently caress with a 4 string and decided to experiment with this little weirdo



ibanez talman TMB30. PJ pickup setup, 30" scale (vs 34"), under two hundred bucks. Everybody that i've watched play one loves it.

short scale basses are neat because your string tension is lower and the harmonics are a little more subdued. if you have ever wondered why old 60s basslines are so round and smooth versus 'clanky' modern basses, it's the short scale. To that end, i'm going to turn the smooth grooves up to 11 and put flatwounds on it.

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


echinopsis posted:

release an EP every week regardless of the quality of the content

doing a 1,5h livestreamed jam session every week https://soundcloud.com/trent-hawkins/telecharger-livestream-34

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
oh hell yeah. Are you playing solo or linking up with others?

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


yeah we have been doing it together with a guy from us east coast who does visuals, guitars and some synths. recently he has been rebuilding his studio so i took the streaming and visuals part over for a while

ninja edit: 105 hours of music recorded since pandemic started end of march 2020

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
gently caress yeah

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP

Penisface posted:

yeah we have been doing it together with a guy from us east coast who does visuals, guitars and some synths. recently he has been rebuilding his studio so i took the streaming and visuals part over for a while

ninja edit: 105 hours of music recorded since pandemic started end of march 2020

how the hell do you sync up tho

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
ordered some nice flatwounds for the new bass. big strings is expensive, dang

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

I wanna buy a nice piano but they are expensive and nobody nearby sells european ones and I wanna check those out

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

I wanna czech out the eastern euopean ones, too

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.

akadajet posted:

I wanna buy a nice piano but they are expensive and nobody nearby sells european ones and I wanna check those out

i know a bit about piano shopping, where are you and what's a rough budget?

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Stringent posted:

i know a bit about piano shopping, where are you and what's a rough budget?

I'm in Austin, TX. I'm looking for an upright and I don't really want to spend much more than 20 grand.

I haven't really gone out shopping yet though.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.

akadajet posted:

I'm in Austin, TX. I'm looking for an upright and I don't really want to spend much more than 20 grand.

so 3 grand is the most you should spend for an upright, if you have a 20 grand budget is a baby or full grand possible with your space?

*edit*
like, you can spend a lot of money on an early 20th century grotrian upright which are arguably the best uprights, but they aren't nearly as good as a yamaha baby grand.

Stringent fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Dec 9, 2021

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Stringent posted:

so 3 grand is the most you should spend for an upright, if you have a 20 grand budget is a baby or full grand possible with your space?

you must be talking about the used market, I don't think 3 grand will get you even a Yamaha u1 new. I think a grand would be kind of cramped given the space I have.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.

akadajet posted:

you must be talking about the used market, I don't think 3 grand will get you even a Yamaha u1 new. I think a grand would be kind of cramped given the space I have.

check, i'll have a look tomorrow. how picky is the player?

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Stringent posted:

check, i'll have a look tomorrow. how picky is the player?

I'm going to be fairly picky about the tone that I'm looking for. But like I said I really need to get out and look at showrooms.

My parents have an old steinway 1098 I might be able to get, but it sounds kind of harsh and it needs to have some keys tops re-glued and probably regulation/voicing and a few tunings.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.

akadajet posted:

I'm going to be fairly picky about the tone that I'm looking for. But like I said I really need to get out and look at showrooms.

My parents have an old steinway 1098 I might be able to get, but it sounds kind of harsh and it needs to have some keys tops re-glued and probably regulation and a few tunings.

ok, that short of a piano probably isn't worth fixing versus a used full upright in decent repair. i'll have a look tomorrow and see what i see.

*edit*
unless you have a sentimental attachment then go nuts of course

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
https://samplesfrommars.com/collect...SZTuNvSOzWeHT78

if anyone willing to give me a moment of their time:

this seems like a good deal. or is it one of those things that is the kind of poo poo you get anywhere ???

my circuit uses samples for the drum machine so maybe this would be all I need for life basically

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002

Pillbug
It's an incredibly good deal, although they have that sale regularly. I picked it up in April and it's... a lot of samples.

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002

Pillbug
also i ordered that mpc :twisted:

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


Jonny 290 posted:

how the hell do you sync up tho

pretty sure you have asked me this before in this very thread, but https://www.cockos.com/ninjam/

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 WARP
oh right ive smoked weed since then. ty

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


akadajet posted:

I'm going to be fairly picky about the tone that I'm looking for. But like I said I really need to get out and look at showrooms.

My parents have an old steinway 1098 I might be able to get, but it sounds kind of harsh and it needs to have some keys tops re-glued and probably regulation/voicing and a few tunings.

if you have any of those services around that let you rent a piano for something like 20 bucks a month that includes free delivery to your place, then i would definitely go for this before i decide to really get one for keeps

because like ok you get a fucken piano, you get all your swole stoner friends to help you get it to your room and then after a few months your enthusiasm fades, you are out Ä3450904500 and all your swole stoner friends are laughing in your face because it sucked so much to lift the thing that even they aren't touching this poo poo anymore, while you are crying and making the craigslist ad that says you will give it away for 20 bucks if the buyer picks it up

i mean that is what i imagine will definitely happen to me if i ever decide to get a real piano

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


Jonny 290 posted:

oh right ive smoked weed since then. ty

no joke having these weekly jam sessions has played a big part in keeping me sane throughout this pandemic time, i will definitely vouch for it

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Penisface posted:

if you have any of those services around that let you rent a piano for something like 20 bucks a month that includes free delivery to your place, then i would definitely go for this before i decide to really get one for keeps

because like ok you get a fucken piano, you get all your swole stoner friends to help you get it to your room and then after a few months your enthusiasm fades, you are out Ä3450904500 and all your swole stoner friends are laughing in your face because it sucked so much to lift the thing that even they aren't touching this poo poo anymore, while you are crying and making the craigslist ad that says you will give it away for 20 bucks if the buyer picks it up

i mean that is what i imagine will definitely happen to me if i ever decide to get a real piano

lol if you think I'm just calling a couple of friends to come and try to move a 600lb anything around my house. you get professionals for that

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


akadajet posted:

lol if you think I'm just calling a couple of friends to come and try to move a 600lb anything around my house. you get professionals for that

there is a reason why you can get upright pianos for free if you can arrange delivery. that reason is that it costs a ton to get pro piano movers

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Penisface posted:

there is a reason why you can get upright pianos for free if you can arrange delivery. that reason is that it costs a ton to get pro piano movers

I understand that

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
akadajet is clearly loaded with piano funds

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

echinopsis posted:

akadajet is clearly loaded with piano funds

I save money for years then spend it on dumb things. consumerism, baby

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akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

at least itís not a lifted super duty like most people here splurge on

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