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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Shouldn't the thread title be "Fascistic Plots and How to Write Them"? 👀
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Apr 9, 2022 10:58
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nice
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Apr 9, 2022 11:01
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Albus Dumbledore is not a fascist! He is a reasonable liberal centrist.
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Apr 9, 2022 11:57
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Mx. posted:oh well that's good, because rowling has always treated asian culture with the proper respect yeah, a Chinese unicorn is in charge of picking the ultra-boss-super-wizard so now Racism And Appropriation Are Officially Over apparently.
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Apr 9, 2022 12:07
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Yeah book 7 starts with the Order members all polyjuicing to be Harry doubles on a broom chase. There's some convoluted reason why they can't apparate I'm sure. Sydin posted:IIRC it's that they're taking Harry to the Burrow which has a shitload of defensive charms thrown over it and the surrounding area, including anti-apparation magic. Also can't use floo because "it's being watched" or whatever and I think Jo just forgot about portkeys. Also all these defensive charms work on final boss underling rules for some reason because the second the ministry falls they're instantly shatter and a shitload of death eaters descend on the wedding. he still has the Trace. This would alert the ministry, full of Voldemort's minions, to his location at the Dursley's house. It wouldn't break the "home" protection but it would give them an excuse to arrest Harry. If he apparates from broom, same. It would allow them to know where Harry went and the ministry could break non-ministry protections far more quickly than the Death Eaters alone as happened at The Burrow right after the Ministry fell. They do take portkeys to The Burrow because the safe houses are much closer than The Burrow, and if Harry went directly there, they'd know it was him and also he'd likely have been captured or killed on the way. Portkeys need to be registered (legally speaking) but anyone who can figure it out can technically do it (it's supposed to be far harder than apparating). They might also have a dude in the portkey section of the magical transpo office. Who the gently caress knows. Also there is supposedly some control over whether or not you can portkey to a place without specific permission/there are anti-portkey charms, like at Hogwarts. They can have exceptions like how the headmaster can create one that works to, from and within Hogwarts. Idk why they didn't use one from the Dursley's except that they might be vulnerable for a moment when the charm breaks? Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Apr 9, 2022 |
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Apr 9, 2022 12:40
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Cranappleberry posted:he still has the Trace. This would alert the ministry, full of Voldemort's minions, to his location at the Dursley's house. It wouldn't break the "home" protection but it would give them an excuse to arrest Harry. If he apparates from broom, same. It would allow them to know where Harry went and the ministry could break non-ministry protections far more quickly than the Death Eaters alone as happened at The Burrow right after the Ministry fell. the Trace is only on wands, not apparition. JK is just dumb.
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Apr 9, 2022 13:30
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Mycroft Holmes posted:the Trace is only on wands, not apparition. JK is just dumb. Incorrect. it applies to any magic done by or near the individual, not necessarily from a wand. Hence Dobby got Harry in trouble.
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Apr 9, 2022 13:32
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I thought apparition required a wand as well in any case, I swear there is some line in one of the books that implies or states this.
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Apr 9, 2022 14:02
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Guy A. Person posted:I thought apparition required a wand as well in any case, I swear there is some line in one of the books that implies or states this. mr. weasley apparates with a "twist of his wand" at some point i think why do i remember this poo poo??? no one on this earth should know anything about mr. weasley, it's a waste of brain cells
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Apr 9, 2022 14:05
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The trace is convoluted bullshit that has many inconsistent examples. Harry is slinging spells left and right when he's on the sidecar anyway so why not just apparate miles away to throw them off? Also portkeys are hard to make so only the ministry can do it... Except for all the times that's not true, like in Goblet of Fire and all the other times the Order members use portkeys. Trying to explain it is pointless. JKR wanted to write a chase scene, plot holes be damned. That's it.
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Apr 9, 2022 14:29
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Cranappleberry posted:Incorrect. it applies to any magic done by or near the individual, not necessarily from a wand. wait, so they have a country wide magic detector yet can't find dark wizards by detecting the 3 unforgivable curses?
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Apr 9, 2022 15:34
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Jazerus posted:mr. weasley apparates with a "twist of his wand" at some point i think Mr. Weasley is one of my favourite characters from the books so no shame in knowing his every move IMO.
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Apr 9, 2022 15:36
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Mycroft Holmes posted:wait, so they have a country wide magic detector yet can't find dark wizards by detecting the 3 unforgivable curses? I can buy that it works on a per-person, or even per-household basis, and not a per-spell basis. Like it can tell if a given person is using magic and what that magic was, but you can't just type in "search: unforgivable curses" into the database. ...except you demonstrably can, Voldemort did that Taboo thing that immediately detects anyone speaking his name anywhere even through wards, so maybe the Ministry is just crushingly incompetent
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Apr 9, 2022 15:37
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Either that or they don't want to.
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Apr 9, 2022 15:41
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Honestly Harry going back to the Dursley's was the dumbest thing he could have done between books 6 and 7. By that point Voldemort was well aware of that whole situation and it was going to stand to reason he would have a loving circle of guys just waiting right outside protection range waiting for the clock to strike midnight on Harry turning 17, and then swooping in on him. The Order had safehouses that they continued to operate through the collapse of the Ministry which means their safety and secrecy were good, should have just vanished Harry underground until the trace was lifted then he could go wherever the gently caress he wanted. By choosing instead to cage him into a location that was temporarily safe but was known by the enemy and had a specific deadline known to all where it suddenly became unsafe, Harry put himself, the Dursleys, and his eventual escort in a ridiculous amount of completely avoidable danger. buuuuuuut all the other books started at the Dursley's so DH had to as well, it's like poetry it rhymes. Every stanza...
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Apr 9, 2022 15:53
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Mycroft Holmes posted:wait, so they have a country wide magic detector yet can't find dark wizards by detecting the 3 unforgivable curses? Rotten Red Rod posted:The trace is convoluted bullshit that has many inconsistent examples. Harry is slinging spells left and right when he's on the sidecar anyway so why not just apparate miles away to throw them off? It's on a per-person basis and it detects any magic in a given range. They can even identify the spell used. The Trace breaks automatically on anyone the moment they turn 17 (I believe it's midnight, not exact time of birth) and cannot be cast on those 17 or older. Muggle-borns are watched closely because they could easily expose magic to muggles whereas a magic household would be steeped in spell-casting all the time (another advantage wizard-born wizards have). Same applies to common areas of magic. So in the leaky cauldron, or Diagon Alley or whatever, any underage wizard could easily cast spells and probably not be caught except by witnesses reporting them. Unforgivable Curses cast in range of a Trace are detectable but there may be a legal carve-out for their use on creatures or just for practice against a dummy or something. Use against a sentient being may or may not be illegal, it's not specified. Use against another human is lifetime in Azkaban without the possibility of parole. Whether or not this is applied is only if the person casting them is caught in the act. The suspension of disbelief is that they are already being pursued by Voldemort and henchmen anyway, they are moving rapidly in space and it would fall under exceptions for self-defense anyway. Why the ministry wouldn't immediately port to HP's house as soon as everyone started casting spells is prolly because of Voldemort infiltrating the ministry. Guy A. Person posted:I thought apparition required a wand as well in any case, I swear there is some line in one of the books that implies or states this. Anyone can learn wandless magic, it's just not as powerful/focused. Basically, anyone can do without a wand IF they learn how. At Hogwarts they are taught how to do it with wands in hand, I believe.
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Apr 9, 2022 16:22
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it's stupid because in The Fantastic Beasts series it's learned that there are Admonitors (which monitor spell use of the wizard it's cast on) though it doesn't seem like it can be done without them noticing. Also there is a magic tracking spell that can be cast to follow "footprints" of recently-used magic.Sydin posted:Honestly Harry going back to the Dursley's was the dumbest thing he could have done between books 6 and 7. By that point Voldemort was well aware of that whole situation and it was going to stand to reason he would have a loving circle of guys just waiting right outside protection range waiting for the clock to strike midnight on Harry turning 17, and then swooping in on him. The Order had safehouses that they continued to operate through the collapse of the Ministry which means their safety and secrecy were good, should have just vanished Harry underground until the trace was lifted then he could go wherever the gently caress he wanted. By choosing instead to cage him into a location that was temporarily safe but was known by the enemy and had a specific deadline known to all where it suddenly became unsafe, Harry put himself, the Dursleys, and his eventual escort in a ridiculous amount of completely avoidable danger. BUT HE'S SAFE THERE!!!
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Apr 9, 2022 16:27
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Should have been Dumbledore's Shameful Spoilers.
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Apr 9, 2022 16:27
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So, in other words, the trace is convoluted bullshit. You can make all the justifications you want, but JKR is NOT good at building a consistent magic system. It's full of contradictions, holes, and contrivances. Which is FINE for a children's book series that's more about the whimsy and characters, but by the final book she's focusing on a magical object hunt and the final battle comes down to really specific intricacies of "wand lore" that didn't exist until that book. She leans into one of the weakest aspects of her worldbuilding and it's not good.
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Apr 9, 2022 16:41
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I kind of wonder how the books would have changed if Mr. Weasly was killed instead of Sirius
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Apr 9, 2022 17:56
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Robot Style posted:So according to Wikipedia, the plot of the new movie revolves around Grindelwald running for International Magic President, and getting his people to assassinate the other candidates so he wins by default. And it's not even an election that people vote in - some random magic animal that can tell if people are "pure of heart" decides who wins the election. You'd think that assassinating his competition would kind of preclude him from having a pure heart, but apparently he just uses necromancy on a dead animal to make it choose him anyway. Yeah this totally loving meshes with the universe as presented in the first two FB movies and the later HP books.
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Apr 9, 2022 18:20
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Rotten Red Rod posted:So, in other words, the trace is convoluted bullshit. I'm not making justifications. I am explaining what the text says and the implication/interpretation of events. Idc about whether it makes sense because I just don't but also her system of magic doesn't. It's silly.
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Apr 9, 2022 18:26
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Nettle Soup posted:Should have been Dumbledore's Shameful Spoilers. We had "Dumbledore's Shameful Secret" for a while after the title was revealed.
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Apr 9, 2022 19:33
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Cranappleberry posted:I'm not making justifications. I am explaining what the text says and the implication/interpretation of events. Ah, ok, I misinterpreted it as a defense. Sorry.
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Apr 9, 2022 19:36
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Rotten Red Rod posted:You can make all the justifications you want, but JKR is NOT good at building a consistent magic system. It's full of contradictions, holes, and contrivances. Which is FINE for a children's book series that's more about the whimsy and characters, but by the final book she's focusing on a magical object hunt and the final battle comes down to really specific intricacies of "wand lore" that didn't exist until that book. She leans into one of the weakest aspects of her worldbuilding and it's not good. I mean, you can't blame her for skipping the details. Where could she possibly have fit any technical explanations of how magic works in the six books of magic school?
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Apr 9, 2022 20:28
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Ah, ok, I misinterpreted it as a defense. Sorry. it's cool. your point is dead on. There are tons of holes. It's been discussed a bunch but the Portkey nonsense with fake Moody. Okay so the reader has to figure out the Dumbledore can make a portkey that works within Hogwarts because he is the only one that can as headmaster. But Moody can modify it. Where was the explanation? If portkeys work to and from Hogwarts why aren't the bad guys just setting poo poo up to teleport back and forth? Use the Room of Requirement to hide everything. The reader can elucidate it but there is no foreshadowing, now exposition from The Personification of Exposition, Dumbledore. There is no explanation at all. Tenebrais posted:I mean, you can't blame her for skipping the details. Where could she possibly have fit any technical explanations of how magic works in the six books of magic school? It's what is known as a soft magic system, where the reader isn't told everything about how it works. There is mystery. The problem is, even the author doesn't know the rules. It's entirely in service of what she needs to happen in the plot.
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Apr 9, 2022 22:02
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Rotten Red Rod posted:The script was leaked a while ago and it proved to be totally real. So yeah, that's what happens. Dumbledore's big plan is to bring the one remaining live magic deer to the magic president crowning ceremony so he can prove Grindlewald's one is a fake (it's a zombie controlled by Grindlewald). They do this by having groups of the protagonists carry identical briefcases, only one of which has the deer, to misdirect Grindlewald's minions. So once again it's barely about Newt at all. Is the Qilin in this movie some magical artifact that looks like an animal, or a literal animal-that's-also-magic? Because if it's the latter, then the idea that they just put it in a briefcase (presumably with no airholes, because wizards) seems like a terribly stupid plan. Cranappleberry posted:It's on a per-person basis and it detects any magic in a given range. They can even identify the spell used. The Trace breaks automatically on anyone the moment they turn 17 (I believe it's midnight, not exact time of birth) and cannot be cast on those 17 or older. Muggle-borns are watched closely because they could easily expose magic to muggles whereas a magic household would be steeped in spell-casting all the time (another advantage wizard-born wizards have). Same applies to common areas of magic. So in the leaky cauldron, or Diagon Alley or whatever, any underage wizard could easily cast spells and probably not be caught except by witnesses reporting them. Gotta love how the wizarding government has a system that can keep track of a minor's spellcasting activity without them knowing about it or giving consent to the thing. Why trust parents to actually do their job and teach their kids to be responsible with their powers when you can violate their privacy instead? Cranappleberry posted:Anyone can learn wandless magic, it's just not as powerful/focused. Basically, anyone can do without a wand IF they learn how. At Hogwarts they are taught how to do it with wands in hand, I believe. Reminds me of the loving  that is HBP introducing the idea of silent spellcasting and Harry never ends up properly learning it anyway. You'd think the practical uses of being able to cast silently so your opponent has no idea what you'll do would get through Harry's general apathy for learning.
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Apr 9, 2022 22:33
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amigolupus posted:Is the Qilin in this movie some magical artifact that looks like an animal, or a literal animal-that's-also-magic? Because if it's the latter, then the idea that they just put it in a briefcase (presumably with no airholes, because wizards) seems like a terribly stupid plan. I wouldn't worry, Wizards have access to TARDIS tech, those briefcases are probably roomier than my apartment on the inside
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Apr 9, 2022 22:37
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Cranappleberry posted:It's what is known as a soft magic system, where the reader isn't told everything about how it works. There is mystery. The problem is, even the author doesn't know the rules. It's entirely in service of what she needs to happen in the plot. The thing is, it's not a soft magic system either. Soft magic systems replace hard rules with thematic resonance, where what magic can and does do boils down to what that means for the characters' development and the ideas the story is trying to present. There's a couple of cases in the earlier books where magic does achieve this, like the original presentation of the Patronus reflecting Harry's growing connection with his father as a weapon against depression, or the whole inciting incident with the purity of his mother's love protecting baby Harry from evil. But outside those isolated incidents magic is presented as purely a function of what abilities characters have access to, and even those two examples of good thematic magic get swallowed up by that (now everyone can cast a Patronus easily for all sorts of purposes!) or attempts to imply there's a hard magic system with rules she never came up with (the protection offered by a mother's sacrifice can be broken by stealing Harry's blood for some reason!) Rowling vascillated between wanting a hard system and a soft system and ended up with just a spell list that doesn't come together as a system at all.
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Apr 9, 2022 22:52
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Remember when Lucius Malfoy, twice-convicted grand dragon of the wizard KKK and lieutenant to Hitler, became caretaker of the newer specialer timeturner that was even cooler than the new special timeturner that replaced the stock of regular timeturners that were destroyed when he, Lucius Malfoy, ran an assassination mission on the fifteen-year-old child and it eventually fell into his fifteen-year-old grandson's hands? Me neither, Scorbus real.
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Apr 9, 2022 23:59
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amigolupus posted:Is the Qilin in this movie some magical artifact that looks like an animal, or a literal animal-that's-also-magic? Because if it's the latter, then the idea that they just put it in a briefcase (presumably with no airholes, because wizards) seems like a terribly stupid plan. The end of the summary mentions that Credence is dying, so does he actually die in the end? The summary isn't clear.
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Apr 10, 2022 00:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Remember when Lucius Malfoy, twice-convicted grand dragon of the wizard KKK and lieutenant to Hitler, became caretaker of the newer specialer timeturner that was even cooler than the new special timeturner that replaced the stock of regular timeturners that were destroyed when he, Lucius Malfoy, ran an assassination mission on the fifteen-year-old child and it eventually fell into his fifteen-year-old grandson's hands? My favorite part is that him having the 2nd time turner totally makes it plausible he actually DID get cucked by Voldemort
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Apr 10, 2022 00:25
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Remember when Lucius Malfoy, twice-convicted grand dragon of the wizard KKK and lieutenant to Hitler, became caretaker of the newer specialer timeturner that was even cooler than the new special timeturner that replaced the stock of regular timeturners that were destroyed when he, Lucius Malfoy, ran an assassination mission on the fifteen-year-old child and it eventually fell into his fifteen-year-old grandson's hands? Tbf he had the special time tuner commissioned himself. Presumably with the vast Nazi riches he was allowed to keep twice. The first time he lied and said he was mind controlled so I guess that excuse worked twice even after he get arrested in the middle of Wizard War 2 and then went right back to running Nazi HQ directly out of his house.
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Apr 10, 2022 01:47
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based on the screenshots i saw the qilin is a real animal, and it looks real bad
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Apr 10, 2022 01:55
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Fuckin' lol that Lucius Malfoy got off again at the end of the series even though there was hard proof and testimony to the fact of him being a top lieutenant for Voldemort, I guess because he's rich and well connected and nothing actually changes after Voldemort dies apparently? Can you imagine how awkward things must have been in the Ministry cafeteria when Wizard cop Harry is queued up behind Lucius to get a meatball sub? And that's before Harry's kid and Lucius' grandkid had a homoerotic time travel adventure.
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Apr 10, 2022 01:58
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Sydin posted:Fuckin' lol that Lucius Malfoy got off again at the end of the series even though there was hard proof and testimony to the fact of him being a top lieutenant for Voldemort, I guess because he's rich and well connected and nothing actually changes after Voldemort dies apparently? Can you imagine how awkward things must have been in the Ministry cafeteria when Wizard cop Harry is queued up behind Lucius to get a meatball sub? And that's before Harry's kid and Lucius' grandkid had a homoerotic time travel adventure. lucius got off because his wife and kid kind of did things to help harry, except they just didn't snitch harry out to the death eaters when they had the opportunity. they did absolutely nothing. but here comes wizard cop harry to convince everyone that the nazi aristocrats are fine actually while lucius donates millions of galleons to the fraternal wizard order of wizard police
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Apr 10, 2022 02:05
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Is the Malfoy family getting away with everything based off real British history of nothing happening to Nazi lovers in the landed gentry or is it another symptom of j/k rowling's weird brain
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Apr 10, 2022 02:40
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HIJK posted:Is the Malfoy family getting away with everything based off real British history of nothing happening to Nazi lovers in the landed gentry or is it another symptom of j/k rowling's weird brain Rowling has absolutely no idea what satire actually is so its just the latter
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Apr 10, 2022 03:34
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They werne't just local fascists. Like Lucius was, if I recall, Voldemort's right-hand man or at least inner circle even during the first war. Yeah, Operation Paperclip and stuff and lots of Nazis got away with their crimes, but that was usually because the Nazis were somehow in possession of unique talents or something that made nations see them as a valuable asset. Lucius turned state's evidence after the first war, so it makes sense the Malfoys would get away with it then, but after the second war? Lmao. Even with how nothing meaningful changed and how lovely liberals are - and realistically Rowling captures that - I still feel like the Malfoys would have explicitly been made an example of considering that this time around they had nothing useful to provide the state and are second time offenders. Then again, Trump led an insurrection and didn't face any consequences for it whatsoever so I suppose, yet again, Rowling is better at capturing how worthless libs are in the face of fascism than anyone might expect.
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Apr 10, 2022 03:40
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Harry's only problem with Wizard Fascism is that it personally didn't like him.
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Apr 10, 2022 03:54
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