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amigolupus posted:
Dumbledore, once he became headmaster (the new movie series changes this canon) removed the other book in the library, Secrets of the Darkest Art, that taught the spell on how to make them, which is how Tom Riddle learned. What Dumbledore did not know and what Tom Riddle was trying to find out from Slughorn, is if it was possible to make multiple, preferably 6.
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Jun 13, 2022 04:51
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amigolupus posted:You can't even blame Krum for his reaction; Grindelwald happened in his grandfather's time so it's not even ancient history. Xenophilius was the one who sucked because he's a grown-rear end man who should've known better than to wear the symbol that got co-opted by Wizard Hitler. Being a kooky guy is no defense. Oh, I don't blame Krum at all, he was absolutely in the right. What I mean is, I find it interesting that JKR went out of her way to contrive this situation where someone was mistaken when they were punching out the guy wearing a swastika because actually the swastika predates the nazis and the white guy covered in nordic runes was totally wearing the swastika for non-nazi reasons. Mx. posted:so do they make a big joke of history class at hogwarts so dumbledore can stop all the jewish students from learning about him stopping the man who wanted to stop the holocaust (who was also hitler 2.0 but it's ok there was no need to kill him) That seems unnecessary because Rowling didn't bother putting any Jewish characters in the entire twice-the-length-of-War-and-Peace series in the first place. I know she name-checks Anthony Goldstein at some point but I'm hardly going to count that as a character.
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Jun 13, 2022 05:18
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Cranappleberry posted:Dumbledore, once he became headmaster (the new movie series changes this canon) removed the other book in the library, Secrets of the Darkest Art, that taught the spell on how to make them, which is how Tom Riddle learned. I knew Riddle asked Slughorn about Horcruxes but I don't remember the other parts at all. Good to know Hogwarts just has a book lying around that can tell kids how to make themselves immortal by doing a murder. Lottery of Babylon posted:Oh, I don't blame Krum at all, he was absolutely in the right. What I mean is, I find it interesting that JKR went out of her way to contrive this situation where someone was mistaken when they were punching out the guy wearing a swastika because actually the swastika predates the nazis and the white guy covered in nordic runes was totally wearing the swastika for non-nazi reasons. Definitely agree with you there. It's got the same kind of creepy "this is actually fine to do" energy as that scene from Transformers, where a 20 year old guy says it's actually legal to date a 17 year old because of a clause in the law (that he carries a copy around in his wallet). There was absolutely no need to defend it, yet Rowling and Bay still put it in their work anyway. Lottery of Babylon posted:That seems unnecessary because Rowling didn't bother putting any Jewish characters in the entire twice-the-length-of-War-and-Peace series in the first place. I know people talk about how Rowling portrays goblins as greedy bankers with hook noses, but I don't think anyone's mentioned how she calls their language 'Gobbledegook.'
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Jun 13, 2022 06:54
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amigolupus posted:I knew Riddle asked Slughorn about Horcruxes but I don't remember the other parts at all. Good to know Hogwarts just has a book lying around that can tell kids how to make themselves immortal by doing a murder. Not to put too fine a point on it but "Well, you can imagine how it looked to old Armando Dippet. On the one hand, Tom Riddle, poor but brilliant, parentless but so brave, school prefect, model student..." about opening the Chamber of Secrets. Or the general surprise when Tom decided to get a job at Borgin and Burkes after graduating.
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Jun 13, 2022 11:21
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It's the wizarding world. Armando Dippet and every other motherfucker was entirely satisfied kangaroo-courting a thirteen year old because of their ethnicity and sentencing them to permanent unpersonhood.
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Jun 13, 2022 11:43
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amigolupus posted:I knew Riddle asked Slughorn about Horcruxes but I don't remember the other parts at all. Good to know Hogwarts just has a book lying around that can tell kids how to make themselves immortal by doing a murder. there are supposedly a bunch of restrictions on getting to the really strange stuff, the books that only an absolute genius would even be able to comprehend. Tho obviously Hermione gets permission for all sorts of dubious stuff really easily, so it's just a matter of being a teacher's pet and you can learn all the worst spells. Also gobbledegook is a funny joke in a children's book that stops fitting into the world when it becomes serious business.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:53
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Oh, I don't blame Krum at all, he was absolutely in the right. What I mean is, I find it interesting that JKR went out of her way to contrive this situation where someone was mistaken when they were punching out the guy wearing a swastika because actually the swastika predates the nazis and the white guy covered in nordic runes was totally wearing the swastika for non-nazi reasons. I love how there's a symbol introduced in the final book that 1. is part of a famous fairy tale that every wizard child has had read to them 2. was the symbol Wizard Hitler used in his rise to power 3. not only are there people who fit into only knowing one of the two aforementioned uses without any cross-contamination but it takes our heroes like 75% of the book to even figure out what the gently caress they are looking at. Also Grindelwald being in wizard country club prison is simply because Jo wanted him in the book so he had to have not been executed or had his brain destroyed by dementors. It could have been some cool like Minority Report imagery where Voldemort had to find his soul locked in some crystal hall or whatever but she is a boring writer so he is just like, in a room in a castle that Voldy could easily walk into.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:05
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Mx. posted:so do they make a big joke of history class at hogwarts so dumbledore can stop all the jewish students from learning about him stopping the man who wanted to stop the holocaust (who was also hitler 2.0 but it's ok there was no need to kill him) IIRC, their only history teacher died before Grindelwald rose to power, so I'd wager their history lessons end somewhere before then. Even if he's aware that new history is happening, there's a lot of wizard history to cover. "Current" events just aren't on the table. Kind of like how American history classes always used to run out of time in the semester just before covering the Vietnam War.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:22
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Their history classes also seem to exclusively cover Goblin Rebellions of which there have been dozens over the last few centuries. Which is a horrifying statement on its face.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:52
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Zore posted:Their history classes also seem to exclusively cover Goblin Rebellions of which there have been dozens over the last few centuries. Which is a horrifying statement on its face. professor binns is a real twisted fashy freak
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Jun 13, 2022 17:21
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Cranappleberry posted:Not to put too fine a point on it but "Well, you can imagine how it looked to old Armando Dippet. On the one hand, Tom Riddle, poor but brilliant, parentless but so brave, school prefect, model student..." about opening the Chamber of Secrets. Or the general surprise when Tom decided to get a job at Borgin and Burkes after graduating. I love how Riddle must've looked like the biggest disappointment to the people who knew him from school. Dude had everything going for him; handsome, smart, charismatic and his connections with Slughorn meant he'll go far in his career... And then he ended up working a lovely retail job in some backalley store. Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's the wizarding world. Armando Dippet and every other motherfucker was entirely satisfied kangaroo-courting a thirteen year old because of their ethnicity and sentencing them to permanent unpersonhood. Hagrid got framed for murder as a 13-year old and then had his wand snapped in front of him so that he's no longer considered a person by other wizards. He was an orphan who had to somehow fend for himself, and the only reason he got a job as an adult was because one of his teachers felt sorry for him. Meanwhile, in France, Madame Maxime is a celebrated witch who's the current headmaster of its premier school. Wizarding Britain is such a lovely hellhole. 
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Jun 13, 2022 18:03
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My US history classes (and Texas history bc lol Texas) got shockingly good at diving into lovely social history. Like, the civil war was horrors of chattel slavery, the Vietnam war being full of massacres and a failure, the whole genociding a continent, japanese internment, the effects of strategic bombing, the gilded age, that got tons of time. In hindsight it was really loving good for a rando public school in loving Texas. Of course, as a dipshit teenager, I thought that was boring crap and wanted to hear about dudes shooting each other. This makes it extra funny how apparently the likes of loving Harry and Ron are utterly bored by a loving magical war vs giants.
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Jun 13, 2022 18:06
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Jazerus posted:professor binns is a real twisted fashy freak , much like a real british boarding school history teacher
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Jun 13, 2022 18:40
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's the wizarding world. Armando Dippet and every other motherfucker was entirely satisfied kangaroo-courting a thirteen year old because of their ethnicity and sentencing them to permanent unpersonhood. Even as late as August 1995, the wizarding world was content to hold a full criminal trial for a teenager who used a magic spell outside of school in front of his (magic-knowledgeable) cousin. It’s another area where thinking outside of the box and giving muggles their due (i.e. getting some solicitor to say “it’s 1995 in the UK, what the gently caress is this literal pre-medieval poo poo?”) would’ve made a better story but, then again, JK Rowling.
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Jun 13, 2022 22:13
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amigolupus posted:I love how Riddle must've looked like the biggest disappointment to the people who knew him from school. Dude had everything going for him; handsome, smart, charismatic and his connections with Slughorn meant he'll go far in his career... And then he ended up working a lovely retail job in some backalley store. I meant to say more about how of course the book was allowed because people like Riddle could only check it out of the Restricted Section with permission from a teacher and would clearly only do so with the intent to study the concept, not to put what they learned into practice. They were trustworthy, model students. Plus the actual act itself is abhorrent to most people.
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Jun 14, 2022 00:03
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what could go wrong with a school library having a copy of magick moste evile???
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Jun 14, 2022 00:27
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Jazerus posted:what could go wrong with a school library having a copy of magick moste evile??? Based on UK Wizarding society it would be spells that feed the Irish
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Jun 14, 2022 00:44
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Barudak posted:Based on UK Wizarding society it would be spells that feed the Irish That is literally impossible unless you're Molly Weasley or a house elf, learn some Gamp's Law. They simply couldn't be helped anyways or next every oppressed muggle would be all "dear wizard please take a minute of your time to stop our misery." Also, is Anthony Goldstein in the books? I googled him today and his entire personality and most listed appearances on the wiki is the video games. There's some kid cast as him from movie 1 all the way to the end though so he must show up somewhere. The non-video game photos are all background kids loitering behind the memorable sidekick characters like Dean, Luna, and Carbomb Finnegan, so idk which kid actually is my man Anthony. His personality traits beyond "the jew" and "blue tie" are that he is an enthusiastic battler against the nazi wizards and that he's good friends with his dorm mates, so honestly, I like him. Idk where these traits are from but he seems alright. He's also confirmed by the wiki via pottermore or some poo poo to be related to the NYC Goldsteins so lol JK. Good news from that is he's confirmed to now be related to Luna by marriage as Luna married one of the Cop Goldstein/Scamander grandkids. They were in the same house and about the same age. Those two just chilling as pals in their downtime is officially added to my headcanon. They can bond over having relatives obsessed with bad cgi magical creatures, and being selflessly courageous when it comes to shooting their wands at the nazi wizards. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 01:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Also, is Anthony Goldstein in the books? Yeah he's a very minor character in a few books.
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Jun 14, 2022 01:39
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Barudak posted:Based on UK Wizarding society it would be spells that feed the Irish Nah, the wizards destroyed that one out of fear of the consequences of someone using it.
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Jun 14, 2022 03:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That is literally impossible unless you're Molly Weasley or a house elf, learn some Gamp's Law. They simply couldn't be helped anyways or next every oppressed muggle would be all "dear wizard please take a minute of your time to stop our misery." Canonically everyone in Ravenclaw bullied Luna for uh like 4 straight years to the point literally her only friends in the entire world were people from the DA. And most of them still talked mad poo poo about her behind her back. Like Luna absolutely has the absolute worst school life of any of the characters. Even Neville is shown to have people who hang out with him or play games with him or whatever. Its no wonder she's the only one who manages to escape and marry someone who isn't a classmate.
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Jun 14, 2022 03:33
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Like Harry is Luna's best friend and even he treats her opinions like poo poo.
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Jun 14, 2022 03:41
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My headcanon is that Luna and Neville bond over being the kids that people scapegoat. Of course this requires Fanfiction Hogwarts.
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Jun 14, 2022 04:11
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The whole narrative goes well out of it's way to punish Luna for being a bit odd in a world full of magic. Her mom blew herself up at 9. Her dad's a conspiracy theorist who completely lost the plot after her mom died, and spent the end of the war in Azkaban for going quisling and failing to betray the protagonists effectively leading to their house getting blown up. Her only friend before school was Ginny Weasley, who calls her Loony to her face. Repeatedly. She's bullied at school to the point that her own housemates are stealing her poo poo and locking her out of the common room in her pajamas. In a drafty Scottish castle. In midwinter. By that point it was her fourth year so this has been ongoing without any of the staff, prefects, or even upper year students doing a drat thing about it. Next book calls out that she spent the 5th school year wandering around barefoot because they stole and hid her shoes. She was even sad when they got a decent DA teacher because the club meetings were 'Almost like having friends.' Another of Rowling's wonderful messages: 'bullying the weird kids is normal'.
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Jun 14, 2022 04:51
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Also, is Anthony Goldstein in the books? He's mentioned once or twice as like, one of a list of names of people who were at the DA. Nobody[1] would remember he existed if JKR hadn't cited him as proof that her books were super diverse and she totally included jewish characters. [1]except fanfiction writers looking for a canon name to slap on their OC muscles like this! posted:Like Harry is Luna's best friend and even he treats her opinions like poo poo. I agree, it's very unfair and closed-minded of Harry not to consider that maybe she's right and Sirius Black is actually rock star Stubby Boardman in disguise.
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Jun 14, 2022 04:53
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Skwirl posted:Nah, the wizards destroyed that one out of fear of the consequences of someone using it. Tearing a soul from its body: a controlled spell, but needs to be known Building a functional social safety net for children: Forbidden and not even to be comceptualized
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Jun 14, 2022 05:13
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Liquid Communism posted:She was even sad when they got a decent DA teacher because the club meetings were 'Almost like having friends.'  That Luna says this in the train compartment to Harry's face and he just looks away uncomfortably and doesn't answer her. He doesn't even try to hang out with her more during that year to make up for the DA being disbanded, despite Luna having his back during his trip to the Department of Mysteries.Violet_Sky posted:My headcanon is that Luna and Neville bond over being the kids that people scapegoat. Of course this requires Fanfiction Hogwarts. Luna and Neville getting together would've made a lot of sense and be a nice payoff to them hanging out a lot after book 5. So of course Rowling fails to do anything about it.
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Jun 14, 2022 05:19
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Not a one of those who went even gives her benefit of the doubt after she demonstrates with the Thestrals that she actually does know things they don't.
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Jun 14, 2022 05:51
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I always felt like, hey the whole series is predicated on there being a secret world hidden away. Like ok Hermione's whole thing is that she only trusts books (and her fists sometimes), but you'd think someone, anyone, would ever call her on it?
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Jun 14, 2022 06:19
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Liquid Communism posted:The whole narrative goes well out of it's way to punish Luna for being a bit odd in a world full of magic. I think that's just JK Rowling accurately depicting British boarding school.
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Jun 14, 2022 07:15
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Yeah Luna being bullied and othered by most of her peers isn't in and of itself indicative of Rowling's lovely views. Moreso, it's that the scooby gang learns about the bullying and just doesn't really give a poo poo because they also think she's weird and don't really want to hang out with her either. There are multiple moments where Harry and Luna should have formed a genuine connection that Harry just brushes off and immediately tries to get out of because he thinks she's weird, Ron wants nothing to do with her, Hermione literally cannot bring herself to befriend Luna or even try to shield her from bullying because she's just oh so mad that Luna believes in cryptids, and the closest thing Luna has to an actual friend in Ginny seems to just view her as a charity case and outright calls her names to her face. It's not hard to see why Neville/Luna was such a popular ship given they're actually pretty similar in the text as loner characters ostracized by their peers sort of floating at the periphery of Harry's inner circle of friends but never quite penetrating.
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Jun 14, 2022 07:24
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amigolupus posted:
he invites her to Slughorn's party. Also, tells Luna and Neville that they are better than randos telling him he rules because they actually showed up when called upon. It's not enough, but it's something.
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Jun 14, 2022 10:15
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Evanna Lynch/Luna actress is the closest thing to a celebrity I've ever talked to. It was just when she was chilling at a bar, not an event or anything. Based on like ten minutes drunk she really is an irl Luna and a total sweetheart. We talked about being bi and vegetarian after I was like "ok wait are you the Luna Lovegood lady" while waiting for drinks. Super chill and friendly. It's kind of absurd that this person would be hated and bullied, ngl.
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Jun 14, 2022 10:17
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People were clamoring for Harry/Luna since the end of Book 5. The fact it didn't happen is definitely a problem but I don't attribute it to Rowling's personal beliefs, just that she was really bad at writing every romance besides Ron/Hermione. For whatever reason, she wanted Harry to get with Ginny, even if Harry's and Luna's one talk at the end of OotP establishes more of a bond between them than anything between Harry and Ginny all series. Now, could Luna have just been promoted to his circle of friends without being his girlfriend? Maybe, she's not in his House so that makes things difficult from a narrative perspective because Harry is always with Ron and Hermione in their home or in class. He'd have to leave them go to see Luna and just Luna. Simple, practical writing constraints make sense here. We've also already got other characters getting increased attention - Ginny is getting more page time, as well as the entire subplot with Ron and Lavender, Lavender becoming more prominent than ever before in the series. I think Luna becoming a semi-main character just wasn't in the scope of what HBP was about. Should it have been? Probably. I certainly don't like Ginny and Luna would have been a much better character to give attention to.
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Jun 14, 2022 10:48
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Skwirl posted:I think that's just JK Rowling accurately depicting British boarding school. It's hard to understate how much it's this, there's entire genres about how even in the most kid-friendly cases those places are all but actively trying to kill their students. The whole deal with Hugglestones in Discworld is barely a joke.
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Jun 14, 2022 12:38
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NikkolasKing posted:People were clamoring for Harry/Luna since the end of Book 5. The fact it didn't happen is definitely a problem but I don't attribute it to Rowling's personal beliefs, just that she was really bad at writing every romance besides Ron/Hermione. For whatever reason, she wanted Harry to get with Ginny, even if Harry's and Luna's one talk at the end of OotP establishes more of a bond between them than anything between Harry and Ginny all series. harry/luna actually happening would have been predicated on harry growing as a person and realizing that he was becoming just as narrow-minded and conventional as the dursleys - i.e. exactly the thematic role that a mid-late-teens romance should play in a coming of age series - but of course that was never in the cards for canon Cop-Who-Lived harry
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Jun 14, 2022 14:13
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I feel like Harry Potter is such a fanfic magnet because of stuff like this. It shares that in common with lots of other fanfic-rich properties, that it's very very good at establishing interesting stuff, and then botches them so hard in the follow-up that every 12-year-old and their mom thinks "Oh I could do better than that" Likeable relatable characters with interesting interpersonal dynamics? Nope, They're all surly idiots who're barely acquaintences with each other, then they all grow up to be cops. A fantastical magical world rich with possibilities? Nope, just twee dystopian bullshit full of weird candy and stuff made up on the spot. A plot full of twists and turns? Nope, it all gets resolved by some new magic doodad that's never foreshadowed or hinted at. A cutting satire of conservative middle-class British culture? Nope, an unironic neoliberal manifesto by a billionaire terf.
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Jun 14, 2022 17:09
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Cranappleberry posted:he invites her to Slughorn's party. I'll grant you the latter, but I kind of remember that Harry only invited Luna because Ginny and Hermione were already attending, and Luna was the most convenient person nearby that wasn't a fangirl. Edgar Allen Ho posted:Evanna Lynch/Luna actress is the closest thing to a celebrity I've ever talked to. It was just when she was chilling at a bar, not an event or anything. Based on like ten minutes drunk she really is an irl Luna and a total sweetheart. We talked about being bi and vegetarian after I was like "ok wait are you the Luna Lovegood lady" while waiting for drinks. Super chill and friendly. It's kind of absurd that this person would be hated and bullied, ngl. That's a very wholesome anecdote, thanks for sharing. 
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Jun 14, 2022 17:53
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's hard to understate how much it's this, there's entire genres about how even in the most kid-friendly cases those places are all but actively trying to kill their students. The least realistic thing about Harry Potter is the lack of sexual assault on the students.
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Jun 14, 2022 18:02
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Harry got the idea to take Luna as a brain wave. It's not about convenience but it is spur of the moment. His internal explanation of a 4th year relentlessly pursing him (to the point of trying to slip him a love potion later on), him not knowing who to take/not wanting to go at all but being unable to escape/Hermione telling him she desperately needs company and also just doing something nice with a friend makes sense. Plus Luna makes for an excellent distraction. She goes on to effortlessly start a conversation about conspiracy stuff that takes attention off of Harry while Slughorn drunkenly boasts about Harry's potions abilities and makes Snape uncomfortable. She is one of the best characters but Harry didn't really like her. He appreciates her as a friend and thinks she's weird and that's about the extent of it.
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Jun 14, 2022 20:51
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