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Alhazred posted:Her name wasn't enough to save the last movie. I'm pretty sure most people don't care about her being attached to the franchise and those who do are also the ones that are fed up with her lovely politics. Yeah, you can't even really blame leftover pandemic poo poo given how well Top Gun 2 and Thor 4 did.
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Jul 11, 2022 09:56
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Rowling's prior attempts at giving Dumbledore more depth than "generic mentor figure" have been to hint that: -His family drama was a traumatic mess (the most important bit, that defined the rest of his life), -His younger self's politics were bad, -He's gay and was in love with his future nemesis (something she only cared to make explicit in later interviews). She's expanding on all three in proportions of what she was already doing, so the Credence stuff is redoing the pathos over his sister Ariana*, only stretched over several movies worth of plot. Meanwhile the romance part, about the only one of the three where there's still some fandom interest, is only given some small lip service because that's not what she thinks is important (plus some convenient rear end-covering by not portraying a gay relationship). Homophobia plays a role, but I also feel she genuinely thinks the family regrets are the real meat of the story. *There was some fan theory that Credence was Ariana reincarnated, which, given Rowling's politics... YaketySass fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 10:03
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You could easily make a 7 movie series that is about Newt traveling to each continent and researching magical animals and fighting poachers and magical big game hunters and smugglers and encroaching muggle industry and a hundred other ecological themed stories featuring magical animals but naw, focus on Dumbledore to the point where his name is the title of the third movie and its actually about some unnecessary background to a story that has already had its conclusion written. Rowling is dumb and her success with the original books was her once in a lifetime good idea and she will forever be scrambling to recreate that to, I dunno, buy another castle or join a hate group or whatever people with way too much money do in their spare time. e: maybe gay magicians are the actual "fantastic beasts" Newt was researching
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Jul 11, 2022 10:35
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Despite there being no large, overstuffed book to draw from, the third Fantastic Beasts movie still plays out as if key scenes and plot details never made it from book to screen. It makes almost no sense and doesn't agree with itself about basic plot details. For example, the central issue of Wizard Hitler hatching a plot to become Wizard President is nonsense. Always, including in this movie, the wizard bureaucracy is portrayed as so ineffectual and permanently compromised that Voldemort seems to almost ignore it. Grindelwald is already so popular that he is simply pardoned of a mass murder with hundreds of witnesses, so he is de facto president already. This is setting aside the Dumbledore Family Drama, which is entirely tacked on, un-earned, and incoherent. The wizard battle between Albus and his Evil Nephew didn't make any sense and appeared to be moving along some unspoken book logic, or entirely missing logic. Ezra Miller just surrenders to entropy and sort of dies off-screen, which is an incredible end to that arc. There was also the side issue of the unbreakable love charm, which can only be broken by ???, even though IIRC we spent an entire previous movie trying to find this macguffin so it could ostensibly be cracked. It's a little hazy at this point, honestly. We enjoyed the scorpion dance section of the movie, and were able to ignore questions on the mechanics of how anyone actually gets put into the scorpion cells without dying in the first place, because it's the least of the movie's narrative problems. I thought the first movie was enjoyable if imperfect, the second was jumbled, sHoCkInG, and unmemorable, and I hope we'll be spared a fourth one after this fiasco.
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Jul 11, 2022 10:45
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Grundulum posted:That makes even less sense than being a TERF. Dumbledore is (apparently) gay and never got that kind of stuff attached to him. Why Grindelwald and not Dumbledore? Dumbledore being gay was an off-the-cuff retcon to score points for looking progressive 20 years ago, and Rowling's brain worms have gotten way worse since then.
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Jul 11, 2022 10:50
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I think most people still think of Rowling as the woman who created Harry Potter and not a terf piece of poo poo. I don't think WB are going to piss her off though they will probably try and avoid getting her to write screenplays.Liquid Communism posted:Dumbledore being gay was an off-the-cuff retcon to score points for looking progressive 20 years ago, and Rowling's brain worms have gotten way worse since then. I really think it was intended subtext in the 7th book. It didn't have to be subtext and it shouldn't have been handled the way it was but I don't think it first entered her head five seconds before she said it. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 11:00
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I think most people still think of Rowling as the woman who created Harry Potter and not a terf piece of poo poo. While this is probably true, the people who know and care that Rowling is a terf piece of poo poo are also Harry Potter's main demographic (ie liberal/left-leaning millenials and younger). It might not be a huge dent on her reputation to the public in general, but it definitely looks like it's reached the point that "JK Rowling wrote this!" doesn't get butts in seats any more.
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Jul 11, 2022 12:16
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Yeah I definitely think she meant for them to be gay. That's what the horny teen fandom got at the time. She doesn't get points for leaving it subtext and then tweeting it out later for queer cred. Dumbledore's family drama is just boring, and she never got this. Nobody wanted or needed his backstory. The one interesting bit with him- Harry being disillusioned and realizing Dumbledore was a manipulative prick and not a perfect god-grandpa- is undermined by revealing that in the end, Dumbledore actually was perfect and his brilliant plan went flawlessly. And now the deer has proven it. Sirius actually works with the "huh, my cool dad isn't that cool after all" character and is the best-written adult. Revisiting him as an adult myself, he's not the cool dad anymore, he's a stunted manchild. But he's like that because he gave up wealth and power to do the right thing, and society rewarded him with torture prison. He's still cool. That is a sad story. Good character. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 12:27
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I love that the democracy deer first bow before dumbledorf and then that lady whichs politics was apparently also good. But she only becomes wizard king because dumbledorf said no thanks. Like apparently multiple people can be good enough for the job, but whoever Bambi trips in front of first gets to be king.
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Jul 11, 2022 12:31
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Runcible Cat posted:Do they have to worry about Ezra Miller's increasingly awful reputation too or did Credence definitively cark it in film 3? They left it up in the air at the end of the movie saying that he was dying but he wasn't actually dead yet. So if they did make another movie they can just say he died between films.
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Jul 11, 2022 13:15
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Can't believe Credence died of ligma smdh
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Jul 11, 2022 13:58
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muscles like this! posted:They left it up in the air at the end of the movie saying that he was dying but he wasn't actually dead yet. So if they did make another movie they can just say he died between films. they'll have a double funeral: Credence and Tina. Which will be attended by the remaining main characters. Some Grindelwald mooks will crash it but will be defeated by a combination of bumbling but well-meaning muggle police called in by Jacob because his cousin owes him a favor and some sort of CGI magical creature that disables them without harm (this will be the only example of a "fantastic beast" in the entire film). Tina's death will go unexplained.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:44
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:You could easily make a 7 movie series that is about Newt traveling to each continent and researching magical animals and fighting poachers and magical big game hunters and smugglers and encroaching muggle industry and a hundred other ecological themed stories featuring magical animals but naw, focus on Dumbledore to the point where his name is the title of the third movie and its actually about some unnecessary background to a story that has already had its conclusion written. JKR would never greenlight that kind of movie though because she hates animals.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:16
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GodFish posted:JKR would never greenlight that kind of movie though because she hates animals. I doubt that it she has that power. It would be pretty stupid for WB to allow the author have any say in what adaptions they should make.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:24
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It is pretty stupid but I don't see how it isn't the case given that we got "Fantastic Beasts" and not "Fantastic characters you already know"
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Jul 11, 2022 17:30
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Kreacher appears in the next movie and is revealed as the father of the half-house elf character from the 2nd movie. Nagani finds herself in alone in a forest in Albania and meets a young voldemort 2. decades before tom riddle is 11
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Jul 11, 2022 20:56
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Lol, Nagini isn't even in FB3, taking away the one thing Harry Potter fans might have actually cared about (how she got stuck as a snake and how she ended up with Voldemort). I'm sure JKR had grand plans for the series, like portraying the final duel being Grindles and Dumbo and introducing a young Tom Riddle, but who knows if WB is greenlighting the next one. Sadly I think it's likely they are, because WB is loving terrified of losing Harry Potter - but they'll probably reign her in even more. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 21:46
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Cranappleberry posted:Kreacher appears in the next movie and is revealed as the father of the half-house elf character from the 2nd movie. I still think it's utterly bonkers that this was something that needed to be included at all. I honestly wish she had never brought up house elves again after book 2 but she keeps going back to the well and pulling out new, horrible things, all the while maintaining that the only problem is that Magical Slave Owners just need to be nicer to their Magical Slaves Rowling is currently complimenting Matt Walsh and his Transphobia: The Movie movie; a person who, to my recollection used to have "proud fascist" in his Twitter bio. Because, of course she is. She really will throw in with anyone as long as they're transphobic. Also wanted to say thanks for the fic recommendations a couple pages back. My fanfic reading days are largely over but some of those look real good and I hope to check them out once summer quarter is over. On that note, I was wondering if there was any Hufflepuff fic that's worth reading? Doesn't have to be about any specific characters, but maybe something that adds some nuance to the House...or even all the Houses in general. I just don't know what's out there anymore, especially once things moved over to AO3
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Jul 11, 2022 22:40
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Happy Landfill posted:Rowling is currently complimenting Matt Walsh and his Transphobia: The Movie movie; a person who, to my recollection used to have "proud fascist" in his Twitter bio. Nah, don't worry, his profile doesn't say "Proud Fascist" It says "Theocratic fascist"
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Jul 11, 2022 23:18
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Nothing to see here 
Happy Landfill fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 23:33
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On the note of fanfiction, one I should have brought up when the discourse was going down was The Havoc Side of the Force and its accompanying side story The Unsuspecting Side of the Force. A Harry who is burned out on the hero for being a hero thing has gone full mercenary and gets paid by governments to track down criminals (who he robs blind while capturing) gets thrown into Star Wars Episode 1, and proceeds to blunder around, completely derailing the plot and doing his best to stop slavery. It is kind of/really over the top and goofy, but at times it is actually pretty good about character writing, showing Harry to be overall fairly broken man who's actions and opinions are a result of just how much his life screwed him up.
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Jul 12, 2022 01:09
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Lol, Nagini isn't even in FB3, taking away the one thing Harry Potter fans might have actually cared about (how she got stuck as a snake and how she ended up with Voldemort). Holy gently caress I completely forgot about this dumb plot point lol
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Jul 12, 2022 01:50
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So did Just Kidding Rowling, to be fair
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Jul 12, 2022 02:57
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Yeah I definitely think she meant for them to be gay. That's what the horny teen fandom got at the time. She doesn't get points for leaving it subtext and then tweeting it out later for queer cred. That really holds true for all of the characters of their generation, really. Lupin, Sirius, Snape, and Pettigrew are all wrecks of human beings, but at least Lupin and Sirius got that way by being hosed over by the shittier parts of wizard society rather than signing up with the fascist and then getting cold feet.
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Jul 12, 2022 10:06
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Liquid Communism posted:That really holds true for all of the characters of their generation, really. Snape was rejected by his one true love, who went with his biggest rival and then also joined up with the wizard fascists because of happenstance. Have some pity for the poor fascist incel!!!
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Jul 12, 2022 11:00
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Daily reminder Sirius tried to have Snape brutally murdered by his (Sirius') best friend And speaking of cold feet, it never is stated 100% one way or the other why James stopped him. He might have saved the child's life just because he was too much of a coward to go through with the child murder.
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Jul 12, 2022 11:12
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Oh, no doubt, and chances are high IMHO James stopped him solely because it would screw up his chances with Evans if he knew her former best bud was going to get murdered by his friends and did nothing. Mind you we could also talk about why Dumbledore had a teenage werewolf on campus and his idea of 'protecting' the students from him was a house with a tunnel straight onto the grounds guarded by a tree that a first year spell could get past, and on the outskirts of a town so that if he somehow managed to get out of the unobserved building overnight he'd be right next to a population center. As opposed to something sensible like transfiguring him into a rock for the full moon or using any of the multiple things like the Draught of Living Death that only really exist as macguffins. Wizards: pretty much universally assholes. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 11:20
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Liquid Communism posted:Oh, no doubt, and chances are high IMHO James stopped him solely because it would screw up his chances with Evans if he knew her former best bud was going to get murdered by his friends and did nothing. The Slytherin House was founded by and continues to foster generations of wizard racists, and not only are they allowed to stay in school, the headmaster knows and has done nothing about the secret Slytherin-built chamber designed to slaughter all non-Slytherin students at the school. I wouldn't be surprised if there were "lost years" where almost every student in the school was killed by a completely preventable magical disaster. After all, this happens to the adults all the time.
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Jul 12, 2022 11:25
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Heh, yeah. Snape's supposed to be a prodigal potions expert, right? Now count how many times his students blew themselves up for either lack of anything resembling lab safety or deliberate sabotage of each other's extremely volatile work. Hogwarts definitely has an expected death toll.
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Jul 12, 2022 11:27
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Snape being a potions prodigy might help if he actually taught anything. All I remember him doing in class was saying stuff like "Today you imbeciles will be brewing the Plutonian Potion, instructions are on the board," and then yelling at people after their potions had already exploded or melted their cauldrons or started releasing noxious fumes or whatever.
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Jul 12, 2022 11:48
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Yep, but none of the other teachers thought that was odd. Or the repeated deaths of their defense teachers. Or a creatures class where the instructor retired 'to spend more time with his remaining limbs'. Hell, look at Moody, they didn't even consider it odd that their defense teacher was using the spells that are supposed to be a one-way ticket to a lifetime in hell prison on 14 year olds. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 11:52
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Isn't that just how British schools worked up through the 1970s? Not so much the literal deaths, but the abusive teaching tactics.
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Jul 12, 2022 12:47
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Remember when the wizard nazi pretending to be Moody told Harry Potter to become a cop. And Harry was like, “good idea” and did exactly that, never reflecting on who gave him that advice. That and Nazi being a great actor read like she came up with that twist after she wrote the book and shoved it in at the end. Zesty fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Jul 12, 2022 |
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Jul 12, 2022 12:48
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Liquid Communism posted:Oh, no doubt, and chances are high IMHO James stopped him solely because it would screw up his chances with Evans if he knew her former best bud was going to get murdered by his friends and did nothing. Or he had enough sense to see that it'd royally gently caress over Lupin and quite possibly Dumbledore too; wizard society is paranoid enough about werewolves that if it came out that a werewolf student ate another student, even an unpopular half-blood nerd with no important relatives, there'd be a screaming shitstorm, a dead or locked-up-for-the-rest-of-his-days werewolf and a fired Headmaster. Wizards >= assholes.
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Jul 12, 2022 13:24
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Or they frame Hagrid and haul him away, with the werewolf business quietly swept under the rug.
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Jul 12, 2022 13:51
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Whatever happens - blame Hagrid , throw him into hell prison
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Jul 12, 2022 15:16
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or Stan Shunpike, jailed by Minister Head Auror just to look like something was being done, which didn't make Harry think twice about becoming a cop at all
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Jul 12, 2022 16:28
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no, but see, harry was going to be the good auror
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Jul 12, 2022 17:01
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NikkolasKing posted:Daily reminder Sirius tried to have Snape brutally murdered by his (Sirius') best friend If Sirius told Snape "yo, there's a werewolf under the angry tree" and Snape went anyway, I'd chalk that under attempted suicide rather than murder
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Jul 12, 2022 17:04
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Happy Landfill posted:no, but see, harry was going to be the good auror the only thing that stops a bad auror with a school is a good auror with a school
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Jul 12, 2022 17:22
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