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That checks out for years 1 and 5/6 but I'm just not buying it for 2/3/4 where he's daddy's little race warrior.
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Apr 29, 2021 23:38
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Snape really wants the snake team to win the sports tournament, and if some kid's dad is funding the team... e: and Harry's broom was first purchased by McGonagall, who we know is extremely biased to the gryffindor team, and his second was from his own extremely rich surrogate dad. Snape wasn't even that far in the wrong josh04 posted:That checks out for years 1 and 5/6 but I'm just not buying it for 2/3/4 where he's daddy's little race warrior. He's really only a screeching nazi in 2, in 3 and 4 iirc he's mainly trying to bully Harry ineffectually. And of course in three he plays up his injury to burn Hagrid. He's a shithead throughout but 2 is when he's all "hahahahaha yes, I wish I knew who was opening the chamber of secrets so I could help them murder!" e again: imagine a Potter republishing where we see everything first person from someone else's perspective. my picks: 1. Quirrel 2. Gilderoy Lockhart 3. Lupin 4. Viktor Krum 5. torn between Luna, Sirius and one of the minor death eaters 6.Snape, he's here, it's time 7.definitely a minor death eater. What is Yaxley thinking all this time? Does he mourn Dolohov? Does he mourn Snape?? Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 30, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 23:56
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Snape's got some opinions about Harry that were clearly wrong, such as Harry being a bully just like James, for example. But which of Snape's impressions about Harry turned out to be right? There was that bit about Harry being a mediocre student and that Hermione did all the heavy lifting, for one thing.
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Apr 30, 2021 00:13
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amigolupus posted:Snape's got some opinions about Harry that were clearly wrong, such as Harry being a bully just like James, for example. But which of Snape's impressions about Harry turned out to be right? There was that bit about Harry being a mediocre student and that Hermione did all the heavy lifting, for one thing. He's wrong about most of his poo poo to do with Harry tbh. Which is weird because there are a ton of things he could have hit him on legitimately but he was always really hung up on him being James 2.0 and ignored most of Harry's actual flaws in favor of doing sick owns on his high school bully.
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Apr 30, 2021 00:16
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Ror posted:I...worked on this cursed horcrux ring for a year...and...Dumbledore just...he put it on. I've been working my way through the Shrieking Shack podcast from the beginning and there's a really funny line early on where they talk about how Dumbledore just woke Harry up in the middle of the night one time to make him watch as Dumbledore drank some poison. Regalingualius posted:This post got me to thinking: it’s kind of amazing that J.K. never explored the obvious idea of a magic university at all, as far as I remember. Just spitballing here, but I could see it as something like this: That's kind of just The Magicians which is about a college where people go to learn real magic. Unlike the Wizarding World magic is extremely difficult to do because you need to know and involves a lot of math and knowledge of the position of heavenly bodies at all times.
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Apr 30, 2021 01:29
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muscles like this! posted:
Also a lot of rape and really stupid amounts of ennui
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Apr 30, 2021 01:38
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amigolupus posted:Snape's got some opinions about Harry that were clearly wrong, such as Harry being a bully just like James, for example. But which of Snape's impressions about Harry turned out to be right? There was that bit about Harry being a mediocre student and that Hermione did all the heavy lifting, for one thing. And that kinda reflects on the fact that he's a lovely teacher.
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Apr 30, 2021 02:30
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Sydin posted:Also Harry is barely interested in empathizing with people he actually likes, no way he's gonna spare a thought to how he could find some common ground with the man who's been using his position of authority to bully and harass Harry for years on end. learning how to do this is part of growing up, but since harry is an aristocrat it not happening is probably more accurate characterization
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Apr 30, 2021 02:58
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reignofevil posted:And that kinda reflects on the fact that he's a lovely teacher. Not necessarily. The Snape quote in question: "Of course, it became apparent to me very quickly that he had no extraordinary talent at all. He has fought his way out of a number of tight corners by a simple combination of sheer luck and more talented friends. He is mediocre to the last degree...." It's not like a superior knowledge of Potions would have helped him in the kind of thing Snape is referring to. In his various battles with dark magic, it was more just luck and Hermione. Of course this is a theme in the series, Harry's lack of ambition is a virtue, but whatever.
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Apr 30, 2021 04:19
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Yeah but a good teacher doesn't see someone is a mediocre student and then use it to help justify being cruel to them. That's like the complete antithesis of teaching.
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Apr 30, 2021 04:26
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Yeah, remember that he rolls up on Harry's literal first day of school and humiliates him in front of the entire class by asking various advanced questions that he knew Harry wasn't going to know the answers to. This is to an abused 11 year old who he knows has been raised completely outside of Wizarding culture and by someone who he knows hates magic. All because he really wants to stick it to the kid's dead dad. Like tbh I do not blame Harry in the slightest for not really giving a poo poo about potions considering his first experience.
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Apr 30, 2021 04:32
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NikkolasKing posted:Not necessarily. The Snape quote in question: I think he was talking to some death eaters there, wasn't he? so like he's not gonna gush about how cool Harry is (and also he wants them to underestimate Harry)
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Apr 30, 2021 04:33
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Mazerunner posted:I think he was talking to some death eaters there, wasn't he? so like he's not gonna gush about how cool Harry is (and also he wants them to underestimate Harry) Yeah, he was talking to Bellatrix and Malfoy's mom. And you're right, this was used as proof in the bad old days before DH that Snape was a good and loyal guy because he knows Harry isn't mediocre, he knows Harry can produce a Patronus which is very advanced magic for his age and also Harry got an Outstanding in his DADA OWL. So this is a case of being the best kind of spy, blending reality and fiction. (the reality of his real resentment for Harry while also still bullshitting)
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Apr 30, 2021 04:42
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Malfoy is a greasy teacher's pet who feeds Snape's ego and complexes, I'd imagine. It also helps that it means Snape ends up with a lot of personal authority and leverage over Malfoy- like the Gryffindors with McGonnagall, the Slytherins know that Snape usually has their back or at least turns a blind eye to their poo poo but if they piss him off then they're REALLY in trouble now. The whole deal with Snape is that despite later intentions he's basically a manchild stuck in adolescence who takes it out on his students, and that happens to conveniently fit his cover as a poorly hidden nazi sympathiser. Also probably doesn't help that Snape was a prodigy at potions himself, and so he's holding students to unrealistic standards compared to himself.
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Apr 30, 2021 06:28
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amigolupus posted:Snape's got some opinions about Harry that were clearly wrong, such as Harry being a bully just like James, for example. But which of Snape's impressions about Harry turned out to be right? There was that bit about Harry being a mediocre student and that Hermione did all the heavy lifting, for one thing. Harry is an entitled and mediocre student. And he constantly got Hermione to write his homework for him. Good things keep happening to him that are unfair (like being put on the sports team in the star position early, then getting an unfair advantage in that sport immediately). and when he isn't made Prefect, it's total unfair bullshit. How dare he get passed over for his best friend. He also breaks the rules constantly because he feels like he's entitled to do so. Sneaking out at night, that kind of thing. Don't worry, he was given a perfect invisibility cloak to do so and doesn't even get in trouble when the headmaster finds him out and about. As I recall, he's also a smarmy poo poo directly to Snape in front of others pretty often. So you got this kid that is the son of your tormenter and looks exactly like him, who constantly flouts the rules and is a smarmy poo poo. and you're a bit of a douchebag who resents the tormenter for getting the girl of your dreams. Snape's wrong to be a dickweed and all, but you can see why Harry reminds him of James so much. Harry just lacks the cruelty, which is easy to overlook when everything else is so similar and Harry's not in a position to be cruel in the way James was, it being a student-teacher relationship now rather than just peers. Zesty fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Apr 30, 2021 |
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Apr 30, 2021 06:53
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josh04 posted:The weirdest Snape thing is how Malfoy is his favourite student. Malfoy's exactly the kind of spoiled brat that Snape hates in Harry. Malfoy's dad was nice to Snape when he was 11 and all his relationships as an adult are based on those he had when he was a teenager
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Apr 30, 2021 09:06
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Harry's best subjects are ones where teachers take an interest in him to be fair. Lupin and fake Moody for DADA, but Harry was also really good with magical creatures. Thanks Hagrid. That's actually something that would have been nice to see come back into play after he quits Hagrid's class. Like what even happened to Buckbeak? In comparison, Draco Malfoy is Snape's golden boy but he's never shown to actually be good at potions. Shout out to Barty Crouch Jr for being so dedicated to his role that he was a good teacher aside from the secret child murder plot.
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Apr 30, 2021 11:21
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The dumb thing about Snape is how he's stuck in this narrative loop of: Is Snape evil? No But what if he is?
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Apr 30, 2021 11:37
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Like what even happened to Buckbeak? Renamed to Witherwings offscreen in book 5 and brought back to Hogwarts, never relevant again. You'd think maybe some of those lessons would carry over to them having to free a dragon in Deathly Hallows. Or maybe Harry sympathising with the snake in book 1, or his experiences with Norbert or the Hungarian Horntail, or literally anything that happened in the first six books meaning anything. quote:Shout out to Barty Crouch Jr for being so dedicated to his role that he was a good teacher aside from the secret child murder plot. Still in the top half of UK teachers.
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Apr 30, 2021 12:05
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dordreff posted:Malfoy's dad was nice to Snape when he was 11 and all his relationships as an adult are based on those he had when he was a teenager I feel this is a bit of a recurring theme even beyond 'literally just the British upper class'. Mind you, most boomer to early gen X authors seem to basically hyperfixate on high school as the most important part of your life and everything beyond is basically the epilogue. Brofessor Slayton posted:Renamed to Witherwings offscreen in book 5 and brought back to Hogwarts, never relevant again. Yeah, that's an almost accidental theme come to think of it, also with Harry impressing the goblins in later books by treating them and house-elves like actual people. It barely has the payoff, and I think a lot of that is just standard Hero's Journey stuff. Might also help that Harry's seen so much poo poo even by book 4 that a lunatic teacher who's willing to expose them to the standard weapons of the dark arts is more actually useful to him while most of his class are just terrified.
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Apr 30, 2021 12:48
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Like what even happened to Buckbeak? Brofessor Slayton posted:Renamed to Witherwings offscreen in book 5 and brought back to Hogwarts, never relevant again. He claws out a loving giant's eyes in the battle of Hogwarts, like a painting on the side of a metal-head's van
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Apr 30, 2021 13:04
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muscles like this! posted:That's kind of just The Magicians which is about a college where people go to learn real magic. Unlike the Wizarding World magic is extremely difficult to do because you need to know and involves a lot of math and knowledge of the position of heavenly bodies at all times. Yeah apart from a section of the second book, The Magicians is a really solid take on this. If you're looking for other books about wizards and their struggles I also highly recommend Christopher Buehlman's The Necromancer's House. It's like what if one of the self-taught magic-users from The Magicians acquired his power in an incredibly risky way and is now being hunted by an incredibly powerful supernatural force. The characters are also not upper class twits like The Magicians cast, on account of the difference between Buehlman and Lev Grossman's lived experiences.
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Apr 30, 2021 14:10
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Guy A. Person posted:He claws out a loving giant's eyes in the battle of Hogwarts, like a painting on the side of a metal-head's van drat at least he gets to be cool all the way through the series
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Apr 30, 2021 16:39
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The problem with analyzing Snape as a person is that I'd assume most teachers would have a lot more going in their lives than what they do on the job from the perspective of an emotionally erratic student. The most we've really got is that he's prone to get petty with punishment in a system that encourages pettiness, and he had enough resentment for Harry's dad to kickstart a new mutual enmity between Harry and himself.
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Apr 30, 2021 16:44
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Snape hates Harry because he's like the living embodiment of everything negative for Snape. He looks like James - Snape's childhood bully - he has Lily's eyes - so looking at Harry means looking into the eyes of the woman Snape loved, betrayed, and got murdered, and finally Harry's existence in general is a living reminder that Lily loved somebody else. Harry, just by kinda being around, reminds Snape of his hated enemy, his lost love, and his incredible guilt. Now combine all this with Snape being emotionally stunted such that he just cannot move on from some poo poo that happened decades ago in HS, and there really never was any room for a conciliatory moment between the two. Snape would need to get over himself before he could Harry as everything that ever went wrong in his life wrapped up in a neat, abusable package, and one of Snape's biggest flaws is that he is so mired in the past he never can get over himself.
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Apr 30, 2021 17:48
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I like the Snape/Sirius dichotomy as an adult. Both are dysfunctional manchildren which I couldn't see at all reading at like age 8-12 or whenever three and five came out. First of all Snape is well justified in his grudge for Sirius' prank. But then, Sirius' tragedy is that he lost everything for making almost all the right choices. His only actual crime is being a dickhead as a teenager (in a weirdly lethal prank but that's just normal for wizarddom I think.) Snape's tragedy is entirely from his own making poor choices at every turn. On the other hand, Sirius had everything handed to him on a silver platter, while Snape grew up poor and reviled. Basically Sirius has everything Snape wants and throws it away to do what's right, without hesitation. Snape hesitates and makes the worst choices of his life to try and get what Sirius has. In Snape's defense I think the "Severus Snape: incel stalker" thing isn't in the text at all. When he and Lily fall out it's because he chooses his Nazi Club friends over her and by all accounts he then leaves her alone. It's before she has feelings for James. His guilt is from betraying her to her death, not from "drat I wanted to smash." When he's doing his Snape brooding he may well be brooding on "why was I such I coward as to go to Dumbledore, as a literal teleporting and flying man, instead of going to the Potter house in genuine repentance and warning them myself" Both Lily and aged-up James are written like they'd probably respect and trust a Snape who came, issued anything like a genuine apology, and warned them that Pettigrew turned. James was the one that saved him from Sirius in the first place. Instead Snape chooses the path of rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 30, 2021 21:09
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So I think at the point the prophecy has been heard and Snape goes to find Dumbledore probably the Order in general are already at least partially in hiding, and it's probably not super easy to set up meetings with them, as a Death Eater. I feel like if Lilly and James had gotten an owl from Snape out of nowhere at that point in the story they would have absolutely seen it as an obvious trap. Dumbeldore is such a badass that he doesn't really mind showing up wherever a Death Eater summons him because he can kick their rear end if he wants to. I also don't think Snape ever knew about the Pettigrew betrayal, I think after he warns Dumbledore he is not really kept in the loop on what else is going on, he's not fully inducted as a member of the Order then and there, and certainly Voldemort isn't bragging to everyone about it.
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Apr 30, 2021 22:01
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Snape dwells on Lily and James when Harry, the product of everything involving Lily and James, is around. I don't think there's any evidence that's the only driving force in Snape's life. Which is, y'know the cost of telling a story from one character's perspective., you get a better look in the viewpoint character's head, but less of an idea of what other characters are really like outside of their interactions with the viewpoint character. Snape's biggest failure was in not teaching Harry to shield his mind, but that's also the one thing Dumbledore tried to get Snape to do that made him the most absolutely vulnearable. Not only did Snape had to risk his own inner feelings getting exposed to this kid he hated, but he had to have absolute trust that this kid who hadn't been too great at absorbing the rest of the curriculum to be able to perfectly learn to shield his mind, and always do it 100% of the time after Harry spent literally every year of school charging into danger and nearly getting himself killed, because if he didn't, the guy on the other end of his brain-link might get enough of Snape's secrets to identify him as a double agent for the wrong side and murder him. I feel like there was some part where Harry and Snape kinda mutally gave up on the side lessons, and that was probably the one time that Harry and Snape were most on the same page and sympathised with eachother.
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Apr 30, 2021 23:09
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I'm curious what Snape's endgame was. Like best case scenario, Voldemort kills Harry and probably James but actually did spare Lily, what did Snape think would happen next? He couldn't possibly have been deluded enough to think he'd be able to swoop in and get the girl afterwards, right? Or was just screwing over his highschool bully and winning points with Wizard Hitler enough?
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Apr 30, 2021 23:12
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I don't think he has an endgame at that point. He's a broken person panicking and trying to unfuck a situation he has hosed beyond repair. Afterwards he has absolutely no personal loyalty for Dumbledore or anything, in my read. I think he's trying to be a loyal soldier-spy to try to make up it up to Lily and even more so to himself that he isn't trash. Trelawney is the actively drunk professor but we know Snape had stores of fine elf-wine on hand for some reason Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Apr 30, 2021 |
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Apr 30, 2021 23:49
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SlothfulCobra posted:Snape dwells on Lily and James when Harry, the product of everything involving Lily and James, is around. I don't think there's any evidence that's the only driving force in Snape's life. We get Snape's point of view when Harry looks in his memories after he dies, in which he explicitly tells Dumbledore that he is only doing Dumbledore's dirty work because of his feelings for Lily.
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Apr 30, 2021 23:55
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Because he's the Spy Who Came In From The Vold(emort).
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May 1, 2021 11:00
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Snape's only real use to either side is as a spy and his knowledge. Snape was the perfect spy in that he was able to both shield his thoughts and sell lies perfectly to anyone trying to read him. He is no threat to Voldemort either in power or popularity- most death eaters hate him for various reasons and it's Bellatrix and Lucius who are Voldemort's favorite pets up until they screw up enough at which point Snape gets the job. Snape is capable of doing things on his own, with minimal and difficult orders, which is probably why Voldemort "likes" him and since Voldemort doesn't see love as important, no way Voldemort would ever see Snape's love for Lily as anything that mattered. Also, no way Snape matched Voldemort in power. Remember Pettigrew and later the incest twins were there to spy on Snape for Voldemort and also deal with the day-to-day while Snape was busy on vague but more important missions. The good guys hate Snape, too, for being an rear end in a top hat, for possibly being a spy for Voldemort and then for killing Dumbledore. No way Snape would obtain real power or love with either side if Voldemort were defeated and Snape somehow lived. The only reason anyone respected Snape was his power and knowledge and the fact that the top guys on both sides vouched for him.
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May 1, 2021 12:39
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Cranappleberry posted:Garak's only real use to either side is as a spy and his knowledge. Garak was the perfect spy in that he was able to both shield his thoughts and sell lies perfectly to anyone trying to read him. At this point I had to go back and figure out what thread I was in. I don’t know how my brain read a different name for Snape.
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May 1, 2021 13:04
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Cranappleberry posted:No way Snape would obtain real power or love with either side if Voldemort were defeated and Snape somehow lived. The only reason anyone respected Snape was his power and knowledge and the fact that the top guys on both sides vouched for him. Snape's whole thing - beyond being an rear end in a top hat - is the tragedy. He was incredibly talented and seemed to have had a genuine shot at earning Lily's affection, but made all the wrong choices. Then when he finally makes the correct choice it's one that sees him hated by everybody, and also leaves him babysitting the kid his worst enemy had with the love of his life. Even then Dumbledore pulls the rug out from under him by revealing Harry dying is part of his plan, and Snape ultimately dies not because his cover was blown but because Voldemort was legit just throwing poo poo at the wall trying to make the Elder Wand obey him. So yeah even if everything went off without a hitch there was never any happiness or acceptance in the cards for Snape because nothing can undo him getting the only person he ever cared about killed. Well, at least until Cursed Child 2 when Albus Severus Creevy Moody Lupin Potter decides he wants to visit one of his namesakes and creates the SSJ2 time turner to go back in time and team up with Snape to help prevent Lily's death.
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May 1, 2021 18:15
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He could have had polyjuice potion for days.
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May 1, 2021 18:53
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reignofevil posted:He could have had polyjuice potion for days. The prostitutes in town probably hated Snape for that reason
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May 2, 2021 01:57
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Polyjuice potion is absurd. I don't really recall there being any strict rules surrounding it either, it's just supposed to be difficult to make with rare ingredients. But in the series it's effectively used in some of the largest crimes/heists known to the wizarding world. It's a potion that pretty much every one has heard of and they don't really act like it's a problem. JKR posted:The fact that Hermione is able to make a competent Polyjuice Potion at the age of twelve is testimony to her outstanding magical ability, because it is a potion that many adult witches and wizards fear to attempt. That makes sense... right? IIRC the only negative consequence ever mentioned is when Hermione turns herself into a catgirl. And that's not even a bad brewing job, she just used the wrong hair. I guess the creation in general is mostly handwaved away as just being something not many wizards do. Maybe it's like finding someone who makes LSD in real life. But I can't imagine there not being scores of wizards who were big fans of polyjuice for various unseemly reasons. It's also undetectable-ish, except when JK needs to hit a plot point. The Marauder's Map, one of the most incredible magical artifacts known in the series created by lovely 70s teens, can see through it for some reason. And then in the last book it is revealed that Gringotts has a spell called Thief's Downfall that breaks it because it "washes away all enchantment, all magical concealment." Gee, sure would be useful to put some spells like that on Azkaban. Ror fucked around with this message at 05:14 on May 2, 2021 |
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May 2, 2021 05:12
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I liked the idea that here's this guy who's a jerk, but he's still a hero on the right side even though he doesn't like or get along with the Special Boy that the plot revolves around, but everything got complicated when the books just had to play the melodrama up to the max. Like maybe sometimes when somebody has lovely customer service they're not an evil nazi conspirator, and the villain isn't going to be whatever schlub you already have a grudge against for unrelated reasons.
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May 2, 2021 05:33
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Ror posted:And then in the last book it is revealed that Gringotts has a spell called Thief's Downfall that breaks it because it "washes away all enchantment, all magical concealment." Gee, sure would be useful to put some spells like that on Azkaban. Eh, that I could chalk up to being goblin magic that they never shared with humans because it’s a trade secret, they don’t like the idea of letting wizards having that kind of power Willy nilly, the Ministry pissed them off, etc.
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May 2, 2021 07:03
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