Pick posted:

vash seduces ezri dax. she still hits bashir on the head with a rolling pin.

Squizzle posted:

oh but seriously I posted:

Barclay Shuts Up & Jams Guinan

BoldFrankensteinMir posted:

My DREAMTREK is about the ship tasked with revisiting all the most dangerous poo poo all the other Treks discovered for basic follow-ups that any competent organization should be doing. I've always liked the headcanon of "Kirk's List", just a big star map of super-classified coordinates that correspond to all the evil gas monsters and time portal rocks and Billy Mumys the original Enterprise discovered and then abandoned.

Barudak posted:

The show focuses on a smaller frigate, like five people total not a ship of the line, and their various ongoing missions which tend to involve lots of PR work, security, and dealing with the Maquis and other anti-communist factions. No great overarching mega-narrative, no "this will decide the fate of the galaxy" just a small group doing their tour of duty and rarely getting into active gunfights.

Ship in the bottle episode: Captain and [vip]'s shuttle craft is damaged and presumed lost in enemy territory. VIP is freaking out that theyre going to die while captain calmly tells the VIP the story of why the captain personally chose their second in command to be on this ship. At the end it culminates in revealing they were in the same class, the captain just graduated higher in the grade because they both took the kyobashi maru exam, with the captain leaving the kyobashi to their fate and the second in command exhausting every option to rescue them, just as the captain and [vip] are rescued by the second in command who never stopped searching.

quote:

I’ve always sort of disliked the Dominion War.

HERE’S STUFF I WISH HAD HAPPENED:

I mean you have to start with the groundwork: what is the Dominion War arc trying to achieve from a thematic standpoint? I’d say that ideally, it should cover the “role of war” in conflict between cultures, and how the Federation–as a highly ideological institution–perceives war, what strategies are applied under what circumstances, and whether this approach is justified and/or written as effective. (This is why the really good DW-arc episodes, like Under the Pale Moonlight and The Siege of AR-558 work so well.)

That doesn’t mean every episode has to address this concern exactly, but I think it should be the strong focus of the Dominion War arc overall. (For example, Once More Unto the Breach is one of my favorite episodes but it exists somewhat independent of the themes that characterize the Dominion War arc.) I also think that the writers would largely agree about the importance of some of these themes, although I don’t think that the way that the show went about addressing these things was as effective as it could have been.

As a somewhat parallel but related note, I would strip out anything that felt like it had a “destiny” aspect. Star Trek is supposed to present a world of opportunity, and “destiny” narratives not only tend to rob characters of agency (and therefore undercut the significance of whatever choices they are making), but also divide characters into two camps: those who are allowed to matter, and those who are not. So, for example, I would have Sisko be the Bajoran “Emissary”, and allow that to have explicit cultural meaning on Bajor. However, I would never explicitly define what that meant for Sisko–I would never make it clear if the wormhole aliens themselves care about Sisko, guide him, or affect outcomes that affect him. Maybe they are! Maybe they’re not! Making decisions in the “listened to the wormhole aliens, who are right / try to resist for 15 minutes before coming around” space robs Sisko of the successes he derives from his own competence, virtue, and ambitions. It also unnecessarily highlights his character shield, implying he also doesn’t face normal consequences for his actions, which betrays their significance.

If it’s “destiny”, it’s banned!!

I think the starting position of Deep Space 9 is basically perfect for this conflict. I wouldn’t really change anything at the outset. You have a space station above recently-occupied Bajor, Sisko has taken over the leadership position there, and his friend Dax joins him as newly-minted Jadzia Dax, spots and all. (Just to be clear, this doesn’t exist in my “alien redesign” world, though it could, I don’t think it would make any difference?) Sisko’s wife did recently pass away, and Jake is with him on the station, being a kid.

Kira was a successful resistance fighter but not someone inherently super influential, and she’s there to ensure Bajoran interests are upheld. It’s not really a plumb position but it’s not bad, and it’s a testament to her diligence, intelligence, and capability. O’Brien is there as a highly-competent engineer who is thought to be able to repair and maintain a Cardassian station. His wife, Keiko, is there with him and in this timeline she actually gets to be involved in goings-on but that’s another story. Bashir, the hyper-competent if somewhat overzealous doctor is there, ready to do good with limited resources. Garak’s still a 95% burn-notice’d spy in exile. Quark has his bar and his brother Rom is there to assist him along with his son Nog. Odo is the changeling security officer who they inherited along with the station. So, the only real difference being that Sisko’s role as the “Emissary” is still culturally clear, but in real terms, highly ambiguous.

I’d also start off the series the same way: the stable wormhole opens and DS9 becomes more influential. I don’t know if I’d have it extend all the way to the Delta Quadrant though–maybe just some place well out of known space. At that stage, DS9 goes from backwater junker to essentially the sessile form of the Enterprise: neat aliens and interesting conflicts come to it, but the format is similar. And I’d also give that a few years of breathing room to get to know the characters and develop their dynamics. At that point, gears start turning.

The Cardassian government starts churning a little. Gul Dukat should have been associated with the occupation of Bajor, but whether it’s a little too “cute” that he ran DS9 (or inappropriately small-scale) and it runs against my beef with “destiny”, I’m not sure. But anyway, he becomes a rising political power on Cardassia. He’s charismatic and superficial; he’s addicted to attention and validation from others. He does actually cut a figure that is effective as a leader–people like to follow this guy. He is backed up by the stoic Damar, who is substantially less cunning than Dukat, but wise and a careful strategist. As a team, they carve a powerful political niche in the Cardassian Union.

Okay, here’s where stuff starts to get radically different:

Dukat is part of the political contingent who hammer out an alliance with the Romulans to attack the Klingon Empire. (This might also leverage a connection Tain had developed, that’s not super important.) The Romulans like this idea because they can get rid of one of their contentious borders and focus their efforts on the Neutral Zone. The Cardassians like this idea because they know that the Romulans will take the brunt of the casualties and damage (particularly since the Cardassians and Klingons don’t border in most maps I’ve seen), and they still get to remove a significant threat, as well as pick up necessary resources from conquered worlds. The Romulans aren’t as resource-hungry as the Cardassians, so it’s a rather sensible divide for the two.

The Klingons start taking a beating, and the Federation must decide what–if anything–to do. It’s not to suggest that the Federation and the Klingons are suddenly buddies, but there’s a lot to fear in a successful Romulan/Cardassian alliance. (Aside: For the purposes of the scenario, please assume there are Romulan characters who matter in DS9….) A few ideas are bandied around:

1. Suggest to the Klingon Empire that the Federation assist the Klingons directly. Rationale: If the R/C alliance is successful, then Federation-controlled worlds are likely next. (Well, after they clean up any minor powers they feel like, such as the Tzenkethi.) Detractors point out that actually, taking ownership of the Klingon Empire–assuming that the R/C alliance even wins!–will probably keep them busy for a while, and it does get rid of the Klingon, a perennial thorn in the Federation’s side. If the R/C alliance fails, then all of the Federation’s major rival powers will come out the worse for wear, putting the Federation in a strong relative position.

2. Suggest that the Federation assist the Klingons covertly. Mostly the same rationale as above, although it introduces some duplicity and wouldn’t be as outright effective. If it’s never uncovered then everything is fine, if it is, then that’s a black eye for the Federation’s reputation (not that the Romulans or Cardassians would disagree with the logic!)

3. Do nothing. Firstly, it’s not the Federation’s war to fight. Furthermore, letting your enemies duke it out while you keep your own nose clean is quite appealing. The downside is, among other things, that the Federation lost the opportunity to develop and active stance and acquire possible benefits. The Federation benefits in relative terms and will likely end in a strong position, but is also likely to be targeted in the future by any continuing R/C alliance.

4. Offer to join with the Romulans and the Cardassians! The advantages are many. This combined alliance would be virtually guaranteed to win against the Klingon, perhaps so decisively that causalities are comparatively limited. The Federation could also bargain for amenable borders, or the return of worlds conquered by the Klingon, in return for their assistance. This also puts the Federation in a better position to bargain with the Romulans or Cardassians in the future if either party would rather join with the powerful Federation than the other for any future major conflicts. Instead of the Federation looking down the gun of the R/C alliance (with whatever benefits come from having taken Klingon space), suddenly the Tal’Shiar is knocking at their backdoor asking if the Federation might just be interested in knocking out the Cardassians.

This is a major conflict among contingents within the Federation, and they spend quite a while arguing it. During this time, during unrelated expeditions through the wormhole, Sisko & Co. discover the changeling homeworld. Odo is very excited.

The changelings have a bit of an ordered (and teensy bit apparently fascist) bent. However, their powers–which, as in DS9 proper, are better developed than Odo’s–present endless possibilities for subterfuge. Ultimately, someone informs the Federation of the changelings, and a determination is made: the Federation will select #3–they will not become directly involved in this war. For now, anyway. However, they will form a compact with the changelings, and send them to infiltrate every side of the conflict: Romulan, Cardassian, and Klingon.

The Federation presumes that the changelings are in earnest, even though there doesn’t seem to be much that the Federation is offering them. The changelings claim they protect themselves by knowing what is going on and being aware of threats, which makes some sense (especially given their tale of historical abuses from solids). Odo vouches for them, and he’s always been a pillar of the community. The Federation is largely enthusiastic to take them on board, and not critical. Sisko is considerably more suspicious, but he is not heeded by his higher-ups.

Sisko and others are also concerned that this is a substantial violation of the Federation’s values and sets a horrible precedent for how the Federation engages with other sovereign governments. I mean sure, he accepts that spies exist. Other governments have provably used them against the Federation, and the Federation has spies. It’s not okay, but it’s an established, historical practice. However, what’s missing with the changelings is almost a sense of fair play. A changeling is an espionage superweapon, of which the other major players are unaware, and they are being used in what is technically a time for peace for the Federation, to exploit a war that is gruesome in extent and brutality.

The Klingon Empire eventually falls, and though a few rebel forces remain (rising particularly from the civilian population), the Empire is essentially gutted and billions of Klingons die.

Jadzia is aware of the “logic” underlying the Federation’s approach, but she never forgives it. In her mind, once it was clear the Klingon really would fight to the last warrior, and that this would entail de facto genocide in defeat, and that the Federation might have been able to curtail it, but instead sought to leverage it, she loses all respect for the Federation as a government. She continues to serve in Starfleet as a way to help Sisko during these difficult times, and support him in his criticism of the Federation’s chosen strategy (as well as promote the interests of the remaining Klingons, some of which are orphans and refugees). There are times when she considers sabotaging official Starfleet missions and etc. She serves but considers herself an apostate.

Given his experience in espionage, Garak’s brought into the thinktank on the matter. (That he’s trusted at all is a function of the Bashir link still developing in this version of events.) Garak’s not a fan of the changelings either, and had told Sisko as much. The Federation has no real leverage over the changelings and are just as vulnerable to the techniques they are teaching the Changelings to use against the Romulan Star Empire and the Cardassian Union. Sisko agrees but still views it in an ideological space, not an existential-threat space.

Dukat gains power and popularity for his role in promoting the alliance and subsequent war, defeating the Klingons, and improving the Cardassian resource base. Thus far it all seems to have been a good move and he’s now an influential Legate. He’s the talker and the firebrand but as usual, Damar’s the one crunching numbers about what their next move should be. It’s worth noting that Damar is perfectly happy with this arrangement, and given Cardassian culture, sees it as a safe and effective position from which to promote his agenda under the guise of it being Dukat’s. Dukat is almost like an assassination-mulligan.

There’s also some Romulan who should have existed, I’m going to make it Cretak because she deserved better, who is the face of the Romulans and is enjoying complementary boons in reputation and status among the Romulans, so this alliance has been going relatively well. There have been some arguments and misunderstandings, but ultimately the prize was so good, and the Obsidian Order / Tal’Shiar so evenly matched that they’re making a good go of it.

The Federation hears about the inner workings of this alliance via its changeling agents. Members of the Federation become increasingly concerned. They’re hearing about plans involving inviting, conquering, or even slaughtering the Gorn and the Breen. No one is talking about wholesale war with the Federation–yet–but they’re down in ships and exhausted, with many officers dead. Admittedly, it wouldn’t be the right time to attack the Federation still at its full force.

However, someone in the Federation gets the idea to play the Federation’s relative strength for a further advantage. The changelings are ordered to begin trying to upset the R/C alliance and to promote distrust and animosity between the two factions, and in fact to try to instigate another war.

What could be better for the Federation than for the Romulans and Cardassians, already weakened and trying to maintain control over a vast new territory, to go to war themselves? Whoever should win, they would both be further weakened, and yes, it’s being suggested that the Federation could then rapidly swoop in and overcome the victor. I mean it’s sneaky, perhaps, but imagine–a Federation bordered by no powerful enemies at all. Sure, the Breen are still out there, for now, but get serious. No more Neutral Zone, no more DMZ, and no Klingon border. It’s a dream come true and you don’t get chances like this every day.

Sisko literally thinks this is the most horrific, reprehensible thing he’s ever heard. Jadzia agrees and is apoplectic. Kira sort of likes the plan, since she’s distraught at the recent successes of the Cardassians and is worried for Bajor’s future if Cardassia remains strong on a trajectory to become stronger. Bashir abhors war and can’t support it. O’Brien is on the fence but generally thinks it’s wrong, though he understands the appeal. (What they don’t know is that Garak has managed to smuggle word out to Tain, so the Cardassians are quietly pretending to be unaware of the changelings, but are learning to identify them and mislead them, throwing as much false intel as possible back to the Federation. The Romulans, however, still don’t know, and the Cardassians are using that fact–I mean, they can’t really help themselves, an advantage like that.)

Jadzia publicly breaks the news of the changelings to the Romulans and the Cardassians (or so she thinks, in the latter’s case). This is a huge violation of everything ever and she knows it. However, it’s a principled stand against a Federation she views as willing to profit from bloodshed. The Romulans, led by Cretak, are furious, and the Cardassians, via Dukat, come out as publicly also furious!

This has an unexpected effect: it’s the changelings who flip. Suddenly, they transition to the next stage of what was their ultimate plan: destroy any powerful contingent of solids. See, from day one, they felt any powerful union of solids was a threat; changelings disdain and fear disorder, so their goal was always to drive the Alpha Quadrant to as many wars as possible, including eventual civil war within the Federation, to break up these powerful forces into smaller, disorganized communities, and destroy them.

(And of course, they had already been installing agents in the Federation as well.)

Odo is heartbroken. He had no idea!

Garak is quite annoyed because he absolutely thought this would happen.

Jadzia is suddenly unsure of whether she did the right thing by coming forward.

Kira admits she was wrong to let her obsession with the Cardassians lead her to promoting immoral strategies and that her own perspective was, in a way, one of war profiteering (if not for latinum).

Quark uses the opportunity to make a point about dishonesty within bounds.

Sisko is so mad because he sort of thinks the Federation kind of deserves it for what they’ve done!

The changelings immediately do a ton of damage. The Federation, Cardassian Union, and Romulan Star Empire quickly realize that their only hope is to join forces to try to identify and drive out the changelings before it is too late. The Cardassians do have to admit that they knew about the changelings and had a few techniques for identifying and waylaying them. The Romulans are mad about that but they’re in a tight spot and will have to save that tantrum for later.

Eventually, after working together and countless painful losses, the changelings are identified and driven out. How this is done exactly, and where they go, and what is done with them–eh. Maybe they’re given some sort of place to be roughly equivalent to Megan where they can feel confidently safe, who knows.

What’s important is it leaves behind a Federation that has seen the ugly side of compromising its values, and has a damaged reputation among the system. There is some shuffling among the leadership of the Federation, and anyone who promoted the changeling plan is at best blacklisted from high office or major influential positions.

Oh, also at some point Dukat dies and Damar has to take over, which works out well for the future since he’s not nearly as aggressive as Dukat and is fine with Cardassia working to now improve its internal strength and be at relative peace with the other bordering governments. Cretak can stay leader through it all because she is neat & cool, and good for her making it to the endgame, you know?

The Romulans, Federation, and Cardassians emerge overall wounded-but-intact, and there’s something to be said for the fact that they’ve just defeated a greater foe–together!–but they’ve also seen an ugly side of one another, and still maintain significantly different cultural values, some of which are outright detestable to the others. What will happen from here isn’t clear–there’s a moment of genuine peace among these historical enemies, and though everyone is grateful for it, there is still the lingering notion that war, someday in the future, may again be an inevitability as memory fades and powerful interests seek to raise the stakes.

Sisko and all are left to consider what choices they made along the way and whether they did the right thing. Character arcs reach logical conclusions–Jadzia has still become Ezri, for example, probably due to an execution from someone or other. Garak’s exile is lifted based on his role in assisting Cardassia from DS9. I didn’t talk about him but Rom still joins Starfleet and does have a valuable perspective–one that would have been valuable when assessing big questions earlier, but was not available due to Ferengi being largely brushed off even in areas where they can be very keen. Perhaps Odo is made the warden for the other changelings. The major questions to chew on are:

1. Is it right to be interventionist in wars that do not immediately affect your direct interests? What is the role of neutral governments?

2. What strategies are appropriate against “rival” forces that are not explicitly hostile?

3. What strategies are appropriate against hostile forces?

4. What is the appropriate level of transparency for a government? How much transparency should governments exhibit with one another?

5. What alliances can be justified and under what circumstances?

6. What is the dividing line between being justifiably opportunistic and being exploitative?

Sisko comes out largely justified: he believes in genuine Federation values, and promoted them. But… could he have done more? Should he?

ANYWAY, that’s how I wish the Dominion War played out.

Pick posted:

i dream of trek

Eighties ZomCom posted:

So Picard and Discovery then.

nine-gear crow posted:

Don’t care much for Discovery, but I unironically like Picard, so yes. gently caress Trekies.

Aglet56 posted:

i like it

Roth posted:

Why?

hard counter posted:

yeah, pretty sound overall

if you were to do a war-heavy trek the ethical/moral issues at stake when someone wants to come and kick over your delicate utopia are those you'd want to thoughtfully focus on to maintain the trek spirit, especially in contrast to just focusing on the spectacle/thrill/dread of war and disappearing into the spirit of straight military scifi

hard counter posted:

yeah, pretty sound overall

if you were to do a war-heavy trek the ethical/moral issues at stake when someone wants to come and kick over your delicate utopia are those you'd want to thoughtfully focus on to maintain the trek spirit, especially in contrast to just focusing on the spectacle/thrill/dread of war and disappearing into the spirit of straight military scifi

Pick posted:

thank you. i believe that trek should only explore war as it explores ethical conduct in wartime situations (where war should absolutely be a last resort and, imho, the federation should absolutely never ever ever ever be the instigator*)

* this is because, despite what some people might think from my Hot Takes, the federation is GOOD and represents the GOOD that society and civilization and etc is capable of. perhaps some PEOPLE can fail "the federation" and what it stands for in whatever capacity they represent the Federation, but the Federation ITSELF is just, and good

anyone who tries to corrupt the federation, should be shown to be wrong, and the federation should be shown to be its most powerful when it ultimately chooses to be ethical even under the greatest duress

Squizzle posted:

star trek shows a future where our better nature charts the course of humanity

Statutory Ape posted:

odo turns into a fleshlight

Statutory Ape posted:

odo turns into an OO-Mox vibrator

Squizzle posted:

Statutory Ape posted:

we also find out that lt cmdr worf's cranial ridges fit into my rear end crack perfectly, which enables us to have quite the epic game of chicken in the holo-pool


also ensign mendon/mendak is a regular bridge officer

E: actually they both are because lmao

e2: ok thats really all the changes i needed made