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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




movax posted:

I still think the dumber thing was the Federation signing a treaty that banned them from any cloaking technology.

Except when a rogue admiral needed it.

I've seen some theories on that point, part of it being that the Federation values having good will with their neighbours more than a tactical advantage, and part that the Klingons and Romulans have enough strife within and between them that they already know how to deal with cloaking, so it wouldn't be a major advantage for the Federation to have it too. And as demonstrated in TNG and DS9, if they really need it, they tend to be on decent terms with at least one of them, so they can request Romulan or Klingon assistance if a mission really needs a cloak.

It also does make sense considering the Federation has held off both the Klingons and Romulans without needing cloaks. And the idea goes against Federation operating methods- they're very open about everything, including that Enterprise-level ships can render a planet uninhabitable all on their own accord.

You can get the Klingons respecting it, since it's basically the Federation agreeing to fight with one arm tied behind their back.

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Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010


Polaron posted:

The other point of egress is the transporter.

Worse, the other egress is the jefferies tubes.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Schadenboner posted:

Aren't bedrooms supposed to have more than one point of egress for, like, fire code?

If so every set of quarters on DS9 appears to be noncompliant (space windows aren't creditable points of egress because of that whole "Hard Vacuum" thing)?

:ohdear:

The Cardassians don't want more than one point of egress, that would interfere with their centralized control ethos.

(they really need to remodel that place a lot more thoroughly)

WilWheaton
Oct 11, 2006

Oh my god it's Hitler's dog!



don't know if it was mentioned yet, but that ancient vulcan "superweapon" from that two parter in star trek the next generation where it would kill one person, but far less effectively than any kind of gun, and then only if the target was angry

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.



Tulip posted:

The Cardassians don't want more than one point of egress, that would interfere with their centralized control ethos.

(they really need to remodel that place a lot more thoroughly)

it would've been really fun if over the 7 year run you'd slowly seen more and more of the built in Cardassian tech in the station slowly replaced with Bajoran or Federation style tech.

Taintrunner
Apr 10, 2017

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS




imagine thinking this protects you from... the plague, a virus, uh, your lungs getting turned into swiss cheese, or uh, dying from a lack of oxygen or something

Owling Howl
Jul 17, 2019

No one cares.

Taintrunner posted:

imagine thinking this protects you from... the plague, a virus, uh, your lungs getting turned into swiss cheese, or uh, dying from a lack of oxygen or something

Amusingly a similar device, Triton, managed to raise $1m in crowdfunding before the developers gave up due to the laws of physics or something.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


SlothfulCobra posted:

Well that looks like another case of whoever writes down the stats for sci fi ship size is just talking out of their rear end, because every time they're on the screen at the same time, they're about the same size.



I don't know how much of that volume translates to systems/engines/crew space/empty space/elevators, but I've never really understood the spatial relationship between any of the sets and the models. Star Trek makes a lot of bold decisions with its ship designs and then never really tries justifying any of them.

To be fair, the Warbird was intended by its designer, Andrew Probert, to be substantially larger than the Enterprise-D. Not his fault that the effects guys had a hard time representing that.




I think this is the closest they ever got to trying to show the Warbird as substantially larger:


atomicgeek
Jul 5, 2007

noony noony noony noooo


Fun Shoe

GD_American posted:

It's a giant universe and I always thought the Best and Brightest part of Starfleet rang false. Show me the 2nd line ships. Give me a show with washouts and career dead-enders manning an outdated ship in a forgotten sector.

This was weeks and pages back, but this is literally the premise of the comedy podcast Improvised Star Trek. You should give it a listen! The USS Sisyphus definitely belongs in this thread.

Twenty Four
Dec 21, 2008




Ghost Leviathan posted:

I've seen some theories on that point, part of it being that the Federation values having good will with their neighbours more than a tactical advantage, and part that the Klingons and Romulans have enough strife within and between them that they already know how to deal with cloaking, so it wouldn't be a major advantage for the Federation to have it too. And as demonstrated in TNG and DS9, if they really need it, they tend to be on decent terms with at least one of them, so they can request Romulan or Klingon assistance if a mission really needs a cloak.

lol this is like the countries in present day that signed the treaty to not produce nuclear weapons, but it is totally okay to use them if they say borrowed them from Russia or something.

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


Twenty Four posted:

lol this is like the countries in present day that signed the treaty to not produce nuclear weapons, but it is totally okay to use them if they say borrowed them from Russia or something.

But this is what happens? Lots of countries fall under the Nuclear Umbrella of an allied power. Like Japan could make themselves nukes anytime they want but instead have an agreement with the U.S to nuke anyone they need to.Or how Cuba and Turkey had the U.S.S.R. and U.S. put missiles in their countries during the Cold War.

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Dream Super Combo


GD_American posted:

It's a giant universe and I always thought the Best and Brightest part of Starfleet rang false. Show me the 2nd line ships. Give me a show with washouts and career dead-enders manning an outdated ship in a forgotten sector.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3RkBKedKWw

Twenty Four
Dec 21, 2008




galagazombie posted:

But this is what happens? Lots of countries fall under the Nuclear Umbrella of an allied power. Like Japan could make themselves nukes anytime they want but instead have an agreement with the U.S to nuke anyone they need to.Or how Cuba and Turkey had the U.S.S.R. and U.S. put missiles in their countries during the Cold War.

it was a dumb joke about sci-fi hand waving stuff, dont worry about it :)

I mean I guess it is true but still no less dumb, lol

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Dream Super Combo


Also, my vote for shittiest piece of garbage tech in science fiction goes to cyberbrains from Ghost in the Shell. Really, basically any kind of "we're going to implant a computer in your skull and wire it directly to your brain" technology. Because yes, let's absolutely directly link our brains to computers when we haven't even figured out how to make normal non-cybernetic computers completely safe from hacking/malicious software attacks. Don't worry, you'll be fine, there's absolutely no way someone will be able to just hack into your brain and force you to do things against your will by overriding control of your body or anything like that, especially in this setting where most of the population has some kind of cybernetic implants, be they limbs or organs or even entire replacement bodies! It's completely safe, you'll be fine, there's nothing at all to worry about!

Twenty Four
Dec 21, 2008




My contribution to the worst tech in Sci-Fi is "scanners" in most any universe as a plot device. Do they work or not? Sure, but never if you need them! :iiam:

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




W.T. Fits posted:

Also, my vote for shittiest piece of garbage tech in science fiction goes to cyberbrains from Ghost in the Shell. Really, basically any kind of "we're going to implant a computer in your skull and wire it directly to your brain" technology. Because yes, let's absolutely directly link our brains to computers when we haven't even figured out how to make normal non-cybernetic computers completely safe from hacking/malicious software attacks. Don't worry, you'll be fine, there's absolutely no way someone will be able to just hack into your brain and force you to do things against your will by overriding control of your body or anything like that, especially in this setting where most of the population has some kind of cybernetic implants, be they limbs or organs or even entire replacement bodies! It's completely safe, you'll be fine, there's nothing at all to worry about!



people gleefully or sometimes forcibly adopting the fancy new technology out of convenience despite it being a security nightmare is way too realistic

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



It's basically the exact same as how Target wound up leaking a hundred million customers' personal information because they didn't secure the internet connection for their air conditioning.

https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/target-hackers-may-have-gotten-in-through-the-air/

There are new "smart" appliances coming out all the time that basically just open more vulnerabilities in people's everyday lives for the abstract promise of a marginal amount of convenience. I think sometimes it's even made more expensive to get the non-internet options as well, because they really want to get your data.

Taintrunner posted:



imagine thinking this protects you from... the plague, a virus, uh, your lungs getting turned into swiss cheese, or uh, dying from a lack of oxygen or something

Well, it works fine in the movie. Space technology.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005








W.T. Fits posted:

Also, my vote for shittiest piece of garbage tech in science fiction goes to cyberbrains from Ghost in the Shell. Really, basically any kind of "we're going to implant a computer in your skull and wire it directly to your brain" technology. Because yes, let's absolutely directly link our brains to computers when we haven't even figured out how to make normal non-cybernetic computers completely safe from hacking/malicious software attacks. Don't worry, you'll be fine, there's absolutely no way someone will be able to just hack into your brain and force you to do things against your will by overriding control of your body or anything like that, especially in this setting where most of the population has some kind of cybernetic implants, be they limbs or organs or even entire replacement bodies! It's completely safe, you'll be fine, there's nothing at all to worry about!



This will absolutely become the shittiest piece of garbage tech in reality the very moment someone figures out how to interface computer hardware with brain tissue without killing the patient (biologically that is, the disease vector of the physical interface is the biggest unsolved problem).

And like other posters said, IoT is the biggest proof of concept. Can't wait for Internet of Brains :laugh:

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006




This looks loving terrible and I want to pee in the creator's mouths.

Owling Howl
Jul 17, 2019

No one cares.

I can't wait to pipe the internet directly into my brain.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



the internet makes you stupid

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

mind the walrus posted:

This looks loving terrible and I want to pee in the creator's mouths.

Watching that promo reminded me of the execrable Final Space.

I watched it during the big fires here because I couldn't go outside and was so bored I was ready to eat my own feet and still regret it.

It had everything bad about sci fi cartoons - obnoxious* loser main character who does the whole 'pathetically whine and creep on a successful competent woman with the hope that one day her pity with outweigh her disgust' thing which is a trope that just needs to loving die already. And every other character followed the concept of 'if you can't make them interesting, have other characters constantly tell the viewer how interesting they are' and using wacky as a substitute for a personality, and thinking becoming more wacky is a character arc.





* and oh my god, was the main character obnoxious!

EDIT: here, have a random youtube I found of not even two minutes of the main character and see if you can make it through:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7NdHPQWTnU

Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Jul 14, 2020

Worf
Sep 12, 2017




i think it will be cute n good and i look forward to loudly posting abt it

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




There seems a real trend in sci-fi where main characters that would previously be bland and boring or vaguely annoying obvious self-inserts for the target demographic become actively more obnoxious, lovely and creepy. (while still being self-inserts for the audience, and somehow thinking the audience is meant to like the idea)

The Transformers movies might be a good example, even SMG admits Shia LeBouf is absolutely awful, but also that Bay MIGHT be doing that on purpose. (also, I never forget to remind people that Megan Fox's character is named Michaela Banes)

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Ghost Leviathan posted:

There seems a real trend in sci-fi where main characters that would previously be bland and boring or vaguely annoying obvious self-inserts for the target demographic become actively more obnoxious, lovely and creepy. (while still being self-inserts for the audience, and somehow thinking the audience is meant to like the idea)

The Transformers movies might be a good example, even SMG admits Shia LeBouf is absolutely awful, but also that Bay MIGHT be doing that on purpose. (also, I never forget to remind people that Megan Fox's character is named Michaela Banes)

Michaela also has the skillset and character arc that are on theme. Sam Witwicky being the perspective character is loving weird.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

Statutory Ape posted:

i think it will be cute n good and i look forward to loudly posting abt it

Go on, watch it. All of it.

I loving dare you :colbert:

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Tulip posted:

Michaela also has the skillset and character arc that are on theme. Sam Witwicky being the perspective character is loving weird.

The SMG argument that the movies read a lot more coherently if you treat them as a parody/satire through Michael Bay's own strange sensibilities is strangely compelling on that, especially if you figure Michaela is his self-insert, and Sam is the audience.

It would dovetail in if he only primarily watched G1 Transformers for inspiration, especially all its most ridiculously dumb plots, and decided that was his thematic jumping off point.

Musluk
May 23, 2011




I still think Terry Von Faraday's Thread sagas that ended up as a 489 page argument is the best thing written about Bayformers.

Sarcastro
Dec 28, 2000
Elite member of the Grammar Nazi Squad that

SlothfulCobra posted:

Well that looks like another case of whoever writes down the stats for sci fi ship size is just talking out of their rear end, because every time they're on the screen at the same time, they're about the same size.




It's further away, but appears about the same size, which by the laws of perspective means it truly is bigger!

That aside, there was a Star Trek novel a while back called "Federation" (which was genuinely good) where at one point a scenario comes up between the Enterprise and a Romulan whatever-class that one is, and the Enterprise finds itself occupying that giant empty space right smack in the middle of the ship. Not that this was canon, but the writers took it as a given that the Romulan ships were very, very much larger than the Enterprise.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Federation ships are smaller b/c they skipped out on fire suppression.

Sarcastro
Dec 28, 2000
Elite member of the Grammar Nazi Squad that

Tulip posted:

Federation ships are smaller b/c they skipped out on fire suppression.

Exploding computer displays are smaller!

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


You'd think they would be bigger since they're housing goddamn civies in addition to the Star Fleet crew.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

You'd think they would be bigger since they're housing goddamn civies in addition to the Star Fleet crew.

There's a video out there somewhere on YouTube showing that, based on the crew numbers we're given, each Starfleet ship has a colossal amount of free space per person as it is.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


Every starship is 67% Jeffrey's Tubes.

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001


They need all the "free" space on their spaceships to fill it all with enough helium required to make the ship light enough to gracefully float through space. :colbert:

dr_rat fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jul 15, 2020

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001


edit not quote. :(

dr_rat fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jul 15, 2020

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

You’re almost exactly right, Starfleet actually fills its ships with hydrogen and antihydrogen to help them gracefully float through space.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005








Polaron posted:

There's a video out there somewhere on YouTube showing that, based on the crew numbers we're given, each Starfleet ship has a colossal amount of free space per person as it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwx5uB0pyhQ

Fun watch, Galaxys are completely insane.

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001


General Battuta posted:

You’re almost exactly right, Starfleet actually fills its ships with hydrogen and antihydrogen to help them gracefully float through space.

They fill their crazy starfleet space zeppelins full of Hydrogen! Have they forgotten the Hindenburg and just how crazy flammable that stuff is!! Oh the hubris of future humanity!!!! :( :( :(

I can see why it is getting so many mentions in this thread now.

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Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


Has Trek ever talked about the tech that lets ships fly around the atmosphere of a planet while resisting gravity?

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