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bitterandtwisted
Sep 4, 2006






Animal-Mother posted:

Every species in Star Trek has a gentleman's agreement to align their ships the same way upon meeting so that things aren't, you know, a bit awkward.

I liked that we could tell Empok Nor was derelict because it was slanty from our POV

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Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010


Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

Has Trek ever talked about the tech that lets ships fly around the atmosphere of a planet while resisting gravity?

Not really, we know they have anti-grav sleds and the like, so that's probably just scaled up for shuttles until they break atmosphere...no idea when it comes to say, Voyager.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

McSpanky posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwx5uB0pyhQ

Fun watch, Galaxys are completely insane.

I really enjoy the point that the set design seems to match this. Corridors are crowded in the original series, but in TNG you rarely see two people cross paths while walking through the incredibly long and wide hallways.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




bitterandtwisted posted:

I liked that we could tell Empok Nor was derelict because it was slanty from our POV

That is the silliest arbitrary sensible framing choice, since it's not like it isn't arbitrary that we see DS9 or other starships from the angles we usually do, right?

DS9's design is weird, has there ever been any writeups on its visual design and intended appearance? It does seem like it's designed for a number of large starships to comfortably dock at any one time, which makes sense as the primary seat of Cardassian power over Bajor.

Vavrek posted:

I really enjoy the point that the set design seems to match this. Corridors are crowded in the original series, but in TNG you rarely see two people cross paths while walking through the incredibly long and wide hallways.

IIRC, it's at least implied if not outright stated that Galaxy class ships are considered kinda ridiculously luxurious and oversized even by Federation standards, almost like luxury liners. (And the original design docs were even moreso) Most other Starfleet ships we see, including the Defiant and Voyager, have much more spartan quarters and accommodations, almost submarine-like. Of course, the Defiant in particular isn't meant for long-term missions or transport of civilians, and Voyager is a prototype.

DS9 is an interesting one in this part of the conversation, since on one hand it's clearly meant to be a home for people as well as a space doom fortress, and has plenty of indoor space, but on the other hand as demonstrated in Melora, accessibility is questionable at best, and there's not much in the way of safety railings. Cardassians clearly don't care much about either.

Gundam series apparently often have ships with ample interior space, individual rooms and even cafes and bars. But mind you, most of these ships are designed to be carriers for giant combat robots in the 20-25 metre range; combine their needs for hangar space and maintenance equipment, as well as storage for spare parts and ammunition, and they're gonna dwarf the needs of a reasonably sized crew, so you might as well use some leftover space for accommodations.

In general, it makes a lot of sense when you have a spaceship that's especially large for some reason or another that if it doesn't need to be packed with crew- and at that level of technology, they usually don't unless you go full Warhammer 40k weirdness- that you might as well have enough interior space so the crew doesn't go too stir crazy.

Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 15, 2020

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


Isn't the undersized crew of the Galaxy Class due to studio execs declaring that the stated crew complement (which made sense for a ship its size) was "too unbelievable" and demanding it be downsized? So the writers just threw up their hands and wrote down the current smaller number despite the ship being way too big for it. I swear I read that in a behind the scenes book. Between all the stories like that or how execs made the Wachowskis change the Matrix from a neural network to a power-plant because it was "too complicated", I'm pretty sure studio execs are much dumber than the majority of the population.

SavageGentleman
Feb 28, 2010

I've got to run, I'll be seeing you!

- from about 6,000 feet!


Fallen Rib

The general tendency of Starfleet to fill most of its exploration ships with the extended families of their crew is also pretty baffling - but on the other hand they really save on compensation payments to widows and (half-)orphans!

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



galagazombie posted:

I'm pretty sure studio execs are much dumber than the majority of the population.
You'd think, but somehow they were the ones wondering why the script to Insurrection made no sense and was dumb bullshit. F'real.

GokuGoesSSJ3
Apr 15, 2017

And this is to go even further beyond!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

That is the silliest arbitrary sensible framing choice, since it's not like it isn't arbitrary that we see DS9 or other starships from the angles we usually do, right?

DS9's design is weird, has there ever been any writeups on its visual design and intended appearance? It does seem like it's designed for a number of large starships to comfortably dock at any one time, which makes sense as the primary seat of Cardassian power over Bajor.

It was originally an ore processing facility right? I always assumed they used transporters to get the ore up there from Bajor but I never thought about where it went next so I guess it'd make sense to have docking space for large cargo ships to bring the processed ore to where it needed to go, probably Cardassia.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Maybe, but there's not really space enough on the station to hold enough ore hand off to whatever ship needs a gap that big.

Not to mention that the default Star Trek ships are already absolutely massive and the setting normally equates size with power, so it wouldn't really fit if there was just some huge as big as the enterprise.

I think the main idea behind the station size is just that it's sort of the inverse kind of design from the federation's rod-shaped space station. Star Trek ship designs are usually all about aesthetics rather than any particular mechanical purpose.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

GokuGoesSSJ3 posted:

It was originally an ore processing facility right? I always assumed they used transporters to get the ore up there from Bajor but I never thought about where it went next so I guess it'd make sense to have docking space for large cargo ships to bring the processed ore to where it needed to go, probably Cardassia.

This is correct, the majority of DS9 is storage space because it was originally meant to be a stop off point for ore that would then get processed into whatever and then stored til it was shipped out. It has ~3000 people on it at a given time in the series, but as mining station at full capacity it had something crazy high by Trek standards like 50,000 people on it. But because most of this is just mechanical spaces to store/shove ore into much of the station isn't really livable. IIRC as few as like 300 people could run the station.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


SlothfulCobra posted:

Maybe, but there's not really space enough on the station to hold enough ore hand off to whatever ship needs a gap that big.

Not to mention that the default Star Trek ships are already absolutely massive and the setting normally equates size with power, so it wouldn't really fit if there was just some huge as big as the enterprise.

I think the main idea behind the station size is just that it's sort of the inverse kind of design from the federation's rod-shaped space station. Star Trek ship designs are usually all about aesthetics rather than any particular mechanical purpose.

I don't think it was meant for just one ship. You would have multiple freighters docking on the tips of the pylons as well as around the circumference of the ring.

DS9 really isn't that big, especially when you consider most of its silhouette is empty space. I think I remember reading somewhere that the developers in Star Trek Online had to scale it up quite a bit because giving it an accurate size made it kind of a letdown.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005








SlothfulCobra posted:

Maybe, but there's not really space enough on the station to hold enough ore hand off to whatever ship needs a gap that big.

Sure there is:



Most of the station's core is ore processing facilities, the docking pylons can fit at least two Galaxy-class ships simultaneously so they could fit drat near anything we've seen.

Besides, I don't think the idea in practice would be to have freighters docked at all six pylons simultaneously but to have a cycle of ships coming and going for maximum efficiency.

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 9, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.



It's the "breath activated" security locks in Star Trek Discovery, that's the stupidest thing.

Pixeltendo
Mar 2, 2012




W.T. Fits posted:

Also, my vote for shittiest piece of garbage tech in science fiction goes to cyberbrains from Ghost in the Shell. Really, basically any kind of "we're going to implant a computer in your skull and wire it directly to your brain" technology. Because yes, let's absolutely directly link our brains to computers when we haven't even figured out how to make normal non-cybernetic computers completely safe from hacking/malicious software attacks. Don't worry, you'll be fine, there's absolutely no way someone will be able to just hack into your brain and force you to do things against your will by overriding control of your body or anything like that, especially in this setting where most of the population has some kind of cybernetic implants, be they limbs or organs or even entire replacement bodies! It's completely safe, you'll be fine, there's nothing at all to worry about!


Megaman battle network is basically this the series.

Everything is connected to the internet, the fridge, an oven, a doghouse, airplanes, even art installations.
This goes as well as expected in a series where you send Megaman to fight viruses.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



I dunno, a lot of the time in the games, things aren't connected to the internet, they're independent networks that are physically isolated from the internet so you have to walk up and find the USB port on it to monkey around with it. That's how they keep the levels isolated.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


SavageGentleman posted:

The general tendency of Starfleet to fill most of its exploration ships with the extended families of their crew is also pretty baffling - but on the other hand they really save on compensation payments to widows and (half-)orphans!

...payments?

Barudak
May 7, 2007




Its just a concise way of saying unlock the replicator function to make pre-triangle-folded federation flags

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009




Pillbug

Press F to replicate respects

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Barudak posted:

pre-triangle-folded federation flags

...made of poop.

SavageGentleman
Feb 28, 2010

I've got to run, I'll be seeing you!

- from about 6,000 feet!


Fallen Rib

*presses LCARS shortcut button for "Amazing Grace" on torpedo launch console*

"As we say goodbye to Ensign Ricky, we remember that his uniform, just as ours, was made of recycled poop. And just as his body will be recycled to snythehol cocktails, bedsheets and shiny latex lingerie for Commander Riker, so will be ours. Such is life in Starfleet - a never ending adventure."

SavageGentleman fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jul 18, 2020

Barudak
May 7, 2007



post funeral cocktails of Gin Rickey's will be served in the aft lounge.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Can I come out and play?

W.T. Fits posted:

Also, my vote for shittiest piece of garbage tech in science fiction goes to cyberbrains from Ghost in the Shell. Really, basically any kind of "we're going to implant a computer in your skull and wire it directly to your brain" technology. Because yes, let's absolutely directly link our brains to computers when we haven't even figured out how to make normal non-cybernetic computers completely safe from hacking/malicious software attacks. Don't worry, you'll be fine, there's absolutely no way someone will be able to just hack into your brain and force you to do things against your will by overriding control of your body or anything like that, especially in this setting where most of the population has some kind of cybernetic implants, be they limbs or organs or even entire replacement bodies! It's completely safe, you'll be fine, there's nothing at all to worry about!



Yeah, the movie’s demonstration of a “ghost hack” where every bit of some random person’s life could get dumped and overridden to turn them into an unwitting agent for someone put me firmly in the non-adopter category for that kind of tech, even before we saw the gentleman whose symbol you posted censor reality on the fly (even if I could do with being able to render several people in real life effectively mute and invisible that way).

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I liked the episode of Ghost in the Shell: Hegelian Cops Unit with the anti-implant terrorist group basically being completely correct about their issues with the implants and how the government uses non implant status among refugees to exploit them and how that wasn't even the main theme of the episode, just a thing everyone involved kind just accepts.

The new series of Stand Alone Complex on Netflix is fuckin trash, btw.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Error 404 posted:

...made of poop.

the water molecules in your blood were once part of dinosaur piss

Droyer
Oct 9, 2012



Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

the water molecules in your blood were once part of dinosaur piss

Weka
May 5, 2019

And if you gaze long into an abyss, you will say `look, no ring.`

Bringing it back to terraforming chat for a minute, I believe it was Asimov who suggested terraforming Mars by bioengineering microbes that would convert the iron oxide to iron and oxygen. I'm not sure if he detailed how to produce any other gasses, it's been 20 years since I've read much of his stuff.

SavageGentleman
Feb 28, 2010

I've got to run, I'll be seeing you!

- from about 6,000 feet!


Fallen Rib

Really liked the Expanse for the fact that humanity dropped terraforming mars like a hot potato when it found a way to earthlike worlds - because terraforming is a shitload of work and takes centuries. Gotta reread the red green hlue mars series

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Weka posted:

Bringing it back to terraforming chat for a minute, I believe it was Asimov who suggested terraforming Mars by bioengineering microbes that would convert the iron oxide to iron and oxygen. I'm not sure if he detailed how to produce any other gasses, it's been 20 years since I've read much of his stuff.

I am fairly certain the best documentary on the subject of terraforming Mars is Total Recall — turbidium or bust.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




Vavrek posted:

I really enjoy the point that the set design seems to match this. Corridors are crowded in the original series, but in TNG you rarely see two people cross paths while walking through the incredibly long and wide hallways.

In the TNG episode "Lower Decks," the crew quarters for the ensigns was a redress of the captain's quarters from Star Trek VI. So basically the most spacious cabin on a Constitution is the smallest one on a Galaxy.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




FuturePastNow posted:

In the TNG episode "Lower Decks," the crew quarters for the ensigns was a redress of the captain's quarters from Star Trek VI. So basically the most spacious cabin on a Constitution is the smallest one on a Galaxy.

Relics iirc has a fun bit where Scotty is shocked at the size of the guest quarters he's offered, and the crewman leading him misunderstands and offers to find him something even larger.

Could well be the Galaxy class was built oversized, and to use up all the space they decided to maximise individual quarters. Like, looked at the original blueprints and just doubled the size of everything.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


In a post-scarcity future where energy and material are basically unlimited why wouldn't you prioritize human comfort and privacy over costs?

Worf
Sep 12, 2017




if you were a klingon or some other rear end in a top hat

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 9, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.



SavageGentleman posted:

Really liked the Expanse for the fact that humanity dropped terraforming mars like a hot potato when it found a way to earthlike worlds - because terraforming is a shitload of work and takes centuries. Gotta reread the red green hlue mars series

honestly I think RGB Mars was good up until B and then it just turned into old people arguing for hundreds of pages

also reminder of a good post from possibly this very forum: "personally I prefer CMYK Mars"

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

In a post-scarcity future where energy and material are basically unlimited why wouldn't you prioritize human comfort and privacy over costs?

If we're talking about Scotty's reaction - fashion and expression. Having a more tight, controlled, contained space can communicate more broadly a more professional persona. That or he finds small spaces cozy I guess.

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.



Powerful Two-Hander posted:

honestly I think RGB Mars was good up until B and then it just turned into old people arguing for hundreds of pages

also reminder of a good post from possibly this very forum: "personally I prefer CMYK Mars"

I gave up halfway through Blue when I realised that nothing had actually happened. it was just the same people going round in circles with the same arguments.
always meant to go back and finish at some point, but left those bricks behind several house moves ago.

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 9, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.



Cerv posted:

I gave up halfway through Blue when I realised that nothing had actually happened. it was just the same people going round in circles with the same arguments.
always meant to go back and finish at some point, but left those bricks behind several house moves ago.

You missed nothing.

frogge
Apr 7, 2006




All the action's in R and G anyways. I finally forced myself to read through them and The Martians. I don't think I'd reread but I'm glad I knocked them off the old bucket list.

For garbage tech I offer the urine recycler from water world. Ew.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Honestly I think even G's a pretty big drop from R.

The chapter about construction on Mars ruled especially for how it inverted the portrayal of Maya after multiple parts.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Statutory Ape posted:

if you were a klingon or some other rear end in a top hat

Klingons just actively get off on spartan accommodations

Also they eat worms

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The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Teleportation is a tricky thing. Most settings give it some major limitations.

Reminded of Pokemon; some Pokemon can teleport, and there's at least one building per game that has a pad-based teleportation network, but it seems to be rarely used outside gimmicks and the occasional convenient escape route. I think it might require a wired connection and has a limited range, so it's not a lot of use unless you really hate doors.

This is probably because pokemon teleporters work by rapidly spinning you around and launching you into the air. It probably takes an unusually strong constitution to use them with any regularity.

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