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WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


Defiance Industries posted:

Vault City is lovely because the point of the GECK was to ensure the terrible pre-war society would be able to reassert itself, by force if necessary.

The overwhelming, brutal force of... seeds, fertilizer, how-to books and a generator. :psyduck:

e: Like, I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just really not following your train of thought here, and there seems to be a more obvious reason why Vault City is like that (because it was built and is run by fascists).

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Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Vault City being run by fascists isn't a coincidence, it's the whole reason Vault 8 exists. Unlike most Vaults, they were supposed to survive and reopen. Their GECK was there to serve the same purpose as their armory full of small arms and explosives: to supply their inevitable reestablishment of the old status quo.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The Vaults were never meant to save anyone. Pretty sure the Enclave was the actual plan for the re-establishment of American dominance. The Vaults, including the control vaults, were there as social experiments for the benefit of the government and Vault-Tec.

BiggestOrangeTree
May 18, 2008


The First Order in Star Wars developed a special melee weapon to be used against light saber users without force powers. Of which there are none. The complaint about how a non force user just so happened to grab a light saber right next to a trooper carrying one such weapon goes into a different thread.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

eyebrowse


Pillbug

BiggestOrangeTree posted:

The First Order in Star Wars developed a special melee weapon to be used against light saber users without force powers. Of which there are none. The complaint about how a non force user just so happened to grab a light saber right next to a trooper carrying one such weapon goes into a different thread.

Dumb question: why are there none? Too dangerous to use if you don't have heightened force reflexes or something?

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




aphid_licker posted:

Dumb question: why are there none? Too dangerous to use if you don't have heightened force reflexes or something?

Because the only people who would choose to bring a sword to an assault rifle fight are so hopped up on midiclorians that they're about to revolutionize jizz.

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Dream Super Combo


aphid_licker posted:

Dumb question: why are there none? Too dangerous to use if you don't have heightened force reflexes or something?

Yeah, that's the explanation they gave in the old EU Young Jedi Knights book, when they ran across a girl their age who used a lightsaber but wasn't Force-sensitive. She claimed that she was just skilled enough at fighting that she didn't need the Force, but it turns out that she was just lying to cover up the fact that she was a spice addict; apparently the spice she was addicted to has a side effect of enhancing your perceptions and reflexes while you're high.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Ghost Leviathan posted:

The Vaults were never meant to save anyone. Pretty sure the Enclave was the actual plan for the re-establishment of American dominance. The Vaults, including the control vaults, were there as social experiments for the benefit of the government and Vault-Tec.

I think that prewar society was filled with multiple organizations working at cross purposes.

aphid_licker posted:

Dumb question: why are there none? Too dangerous to use if you don't have heightened force reflexes or something?

Dangerous, but also you can't make a lightsaber without a kyber crystal and it's drat near impossible (or obscenely expensive) to get a good one without some kind of force resonance helping you out.

I think there's also a thing about how being the signature weapon of an order of people with a bounty on their heads with the idea to wipe them out makes it not as much worth the effort and expense.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Republic Era: A controlled weapon used as a symbol of status by an insane space cult

Imperial Era: A controlled weapon used as a symbol of status by an insane space cult who tried to kill the rightfully elected chancellor and whose remaining collaborators are shoot on sight

Sequel Era: Its the Imperial Era again for no reason, gently caress it, lets go home

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


Non-Jedi don't use Lightsabers for the same reason people in real life don't use swords in gunfights. Without pre-cognition and superhuman reflexes a lightsaber is just a sword that's even easier to accidentally kill yourself with. Han was able to clumsily use Luke's as an ad-hoc Tauntaun slicer, but he wouldn't be able to use it to make himself practically immune to gunfire and simultaneously make his opponents kill themselves with their own shots like Luke can with his magic powers.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


but...

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




SlothfulCobra posted:

I think that prewar society was filled with multiple organizations working at cross purposes.

According to Avellone, they both wanted to experiment on them AND have them recolonize the surface. Yeah that doesn't make any sense and no wonder Vault 8 (the control vault) is the only one that went like they wanted, but the actual goals of the project are completely lost to time now.

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!





That's a regular metal sword with a force field that stops lightsabers. Which is also very fitting for this thread.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


Pretty sure it's not a metal sword. It's literally just a lightsaber that is dark instead of light and made to look like metal.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005




It is in fact a "Darksaber"

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


That reminds me.

The shittiest piece of garbage tech in all of science fiction is the Darksaber.

No, not that one. The one built by an incredibly cheapass Hutt that was a Death Star Superlaser with engines bolted onto the back, hence the name (it was basically a giant cylinder so it looked like a lightsaber handle).

This piece of poo poo was so lovely that the one time it was attempted to be used in an actual combat scenario, it failed. It was being chased by a Republic fleet (a SMALL Republic fleet) into an asteroid field. It had a giant asteroid coming at it and the Hutt wanted to blow the asteroid up with the superlaser.

The superlaser fizzled and the Darksaber was smashed between two giant rocks with zero casualties to the Republic fleet.

Crix Madine was also unceremoniously shot in the heart and killed in the same book, because Kevin J. Anderson is a fuckin' hack.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




And because Kevin J Anderson thinks that a villain should be a total clown who the heroes completely outclass in every way, had they just ignored the titular plot of the book, everything would have been fine.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Krennic was funny tho

Elmnt80
Dec 30, 2012

There is a certain joy in a freshly laundered jock strap





Just pretend I quoted all the posts in this thread about star trek phasers here.

In the last season of DS9 it turns out the federation had made a fancy rear end prototype weapon which was just a regular loving gun that shot tritanium bullets. Its turned into like a perfect assassin's/sniper's weapon by some rear end in a top hat on a murder streak and once he's caught they just forget that you have a magical weapon that is nearly impossible to stop, can kill people inside buildings and tons of other reality breaking bullshit, but no, have to stick to phasers that can't hit poo poo in a big firefight. Oh, also these guns and their ammo can be easily replicated along with the magic attachments as shown in this same episode.

Owling Howl
Jul 17, 2019

No one cares.

Elmnt80 posted:

Just pretend I quoted all the posts in this thread about star trek phasers here.

In the last season of DS9 it turns out the federation had made a fancy rear end prototype weapon which was just a regular loving gun that shot tritanium bullets. Its turned into like a perfect assassin's/sniper's weapon by some rear end in a top hat on a murder streak and once he's caught they just forget that you have a magical weapon that is nearly impossible to stop, can kill people inside buildings and tons of other reality breaking bullshit, but no, have to stick to phasers that can't hit poo poo in a big firefight. Oh, also these guns and their ammo can be easily replicated along with the magic attachments as shown in this same episode.

That's like Westworld where they have an incredible sniper rifle/murder drone combo which is used only once and the protagonists instead always wind up hacking at each other with swords in lengthy and complicated duels.

It also suffers from that syndrome where the director thinks an exciting action scene requires the protagonist to look bored and unconcerned while killing outrageous numbers of people.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Elmnt80 posted:

Just pretend I quoted all the posts in this thread about star trek phasers here.

In the last season of DS9 it turns out the federation had made a fancy rear end prototype weapon which was just a regular loving gun that shot tritanium bullets. Its turned into like a perfect assassin's/sniper's weapon by some rear end in a top hat on a murder streak and once he's caught they just forget that you have a magical weapon that is nearly impossible to stop, can kill people inside buildings and tons of other reality breaking bullshit, but no, have to stick to phasers that can't hit poo poo in a big firefight. Oh, also these guns and their ammo can be easily replicated along with the magic attachments as shown in this same episode.

It probably wouldn't be that useful against guys who routinely turn invisible, and given how regularly transporters and sensors stop working in Trek it might be a complete lemon in battlefield conditions. Decent for shooting Cardassians though.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Elmnt80 posted:

Just pretend I quoted all the posts in this thread about star trek phasers here.

In the last season of DS9 it turns out the federation had made a fancy rear end prototype weapon which was just a regular loving gun that shot tritanium bullets. Its turned into like a perfect assassin's/sniper's weapon by some rear end in a top hat on a murder streak and once he's caught they just forget that you have a magical weapon that is nearly impossible to stop, can kill people inside buildings and tons of other reality breaking bullshit, but no, have to stick to phasers that can't hit poo poo in a big firefight. Oh, also these guns and their ammo can be easily replicated along with the magic attachments as shown in this same episode.

You forgot that they put a miniature transporter in the barrel that would beam the bullet to like an inch in front of the target the moment it leaves the barrel

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



It is within my suspension of disbelief that battlefield 101 in Star Trek involves doing something to block transporters. Otherwise, skip transporting a bullet and just transport a big ol' bomb.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Or just transport their insides elsewhere.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Some Goon posted:

Or just transport their insides elsewhere.

Just transport them directly to space and the city is yours.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




If you can beam poop out of your body you can beam that same poop straight into your enemy's mouth

BOOM now they all are throwing up and can't fight back

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Transport the neuron arrangement that contains memories of them always having been a happy member of your civilization into their brain

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


Elmnt80 posted:

Just pretend I quoted all the posts in this thread about star trek phasers here.

In the last season of DS9 it turns out the federation had made a fancy rear end prototype weapon which was just a regular loving gun that shot tritanium bullets. Its turned into like a perfect assassin's/sniper's weapon by some rear end in a top hat on a murder streak and once he's caught they just forget that you have a magical weapon that is nearly impossible to stop, can kill people inside buildings and tons of other reality breaking bullshit, but no, have to stick to phasers that can't hit poo poo in a big firefight. Oh, also these guns and their ammo can be easily replicated along with the magic attachments as shown in this same episode.

Trek forgets alot of things that they invent.

I watched the episode of TNG the other day where Barkley gets his brain enhanced by an alien species and he invents a way to boost shield output by 300%, but apparently never bothered to write down how that was done.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

Trek forgets alot of things that they invent.

I watched the episode of TNG the other day where Barkley gets his brain enhanced by an alien species and he invents a way to boost shield output by 300%, but apparently never bothered to write down how that was done.

You gotta cut power output to the dolphin's fuckpad and the federation can't abide that

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell


Barudak posted:

Just transport them directly to space and the city is yours.

That was Star Trek: Insurrection, and it was bad

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

Trek forgets alot of things that they invent.

I watched the episode of TNG the other day where Barkley gets his brain enhanced by an alien species and he invents a way to boost shield output by 300%, but apparently never bothered to write down how that was done.

Was there some point where they said this was undone or forgotten? Like if it's boosted by 300%, it's still going to say it's at 100% output on the console when you max it out.


I did love that they slingshot around the sun due to other reasons in TOS Kirk does log how like, theoretically, you could technobabble that into time travelling to a specific point in time in that one episode and then they used it for Voyage Home because it was like a lightning in a bottle how do you even begin to test stuff like this kind of thing but with how Voyage Home was happening it was like what the gently caress else are we gonna do.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Polaron posted:

That reminds me.

The shittiest piece of garbage tech in all of science fiction is the Darksaber.

No, not that one. The one built by an incredibly cheapass Hutt that was a Death Star Superlaser with engines bolted onto the back, hence the name (it was basically a giant cylinder so it looked like a lightsaber handle).

This piece of poo poo was so lovely that the one time it was attempted to be used in an actual combat scenario, it failed. It was being chased by a Republic fleet (a SMALL Republic fleet) into an asteroid field. It had a giant asteroid coming at it and the Hutt wanted to blow the asteroid up with the superlaser.

The superlaser fizzled and the Darksaber was smashed between two giant rocks with zero casualties to the Republic fleet.

Crix Madine was also unceremoniously shot in the heart and killed in the same book, because Kevin J. Anderson is a fuckin' hack.

Not only is Anderson a hack for that story, but it was even taken from the Marvel Star Wars comics from the 70s/80s. In between ESB and RotJ there was an earlier attempt at making use of the death star laser called The Eye of Tarkin but it was the exact same thing of instead of making a massive base we just make an extremely mobile death star laser. I remember that was a cool story arc because it was very shortly after ESB's events happened in the comics (like maybe two issues later) and there was also a story happening in it concurrently about a group of imperial officers' conspiracy to assassinate Darth Vader because of how ruthless he is in ESB about killing his own folks and on how much he only gives a poo poo about finding Skywalker personally instead of bringing order to the galaxy.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



:actually: it was just called The Tarkin. And those comics owned bones. Where's my Valance and Baron Tagge miniserieses Disney? Where's my Riders in the Void / Fantasia mashup tone poem?

Disney owns both Star Wars and Marvel, I don't see how they wouldn't have full rights to them.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



Some Goon posted:

:actually: it was just called The Tarkin. And those comics owned bones. Where's my Valance and Baron Tagge miniserieses Disney?

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Well gently caress.

I've got comics to read now. I don't even read comics.

E:vvvvv based on Barudaks earlier posts, vac-ing a planets populace via teleporter would be a sweet-rear end thing for some interstellar warlord to do.

EE: continuing the below line of thought, in any story with realspace FTL there's no reason not to just have Holdo-pikes for that. Though that would probably lead to a MAD detente and undermine the whole story conflict.

Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Aug 24, 2020

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Sci fi often has people that fall into the same pattern of thinking as the US at Vietnam. Just keep increasing the yield on whatever ordinance you got and keep pouring it on. Eventually that will amount to victory.

And then when the characters of a story don't go with the infinite bombing strategy, nerds like to complain that they should just drop asteroids on everything.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

Neo Rasa posted:

Not only is Anderson a hack for that story, but it was even taken from the Marvel Star Wars comics from the 70s/80s. In between ESB and RotJ there was an earlier attempt at making use of the death star laser called The Eye of Tarkin but it was the exact same thing of instead of making a massive base we just make an extremely mobile death star laser.

The only interesting thing ever done with a Death Star laser was the battering ram thing from Last Jedi.




Though it does extremely beg the question of why the gently caress did they just have something like this laying around.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

eyebrowse


Pillbug

Seems like that thing should need an equally huge power generation or storage thingy somewhere.

BiggestOrangeTree
May 18, 2008


If it's from the death star why does it shoot an orange laser and not green?

aphid_licker posted:

Seems like that thing should need an equally huge power generation or storage thingy somewhere.

Uhhh then the death star would have had to have a big and important reactor somewhere, I think someone would have mentioned that at that some point. :rolleyes:

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Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

aphid_licker posted:

Seems like that thing should need an equally huge power generation or storage thingy somewhere.

Gonk Star Droid.

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