Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
elf help book
Aug 5, 2004

It's not a dream, or a lie.
I know my sister is alive out there.


Megillah Gorilla posted:

Gonk Star Droid.



brb signing up for the first order

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Some Goon posted:

:actually: it was just called The Tarkin. And those comics owned bones. Where's my Valance and Baron Tagge miniserieses Disney? Where's my Riders in the Void / Fantasia mashup tone poem?

Disney owns both Star Wars and Marvel, I don't see how they wouldn't have full rights to them.

They really did, I loved that stuff so much and it was really cool when they overlapped with the movies because of all the little differences from the going by script/some designs being very different/etc.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002



Sucks for the dudes that drew the short straws and have to walk.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



aphid_licker posted:

Seems like that thing should need an equally huge power generation or storage thingy somewhere.

They keep it aboard Snoke's star destroyer, but it's hard to tell if it's plugged into anything.

Emrikol
Sep 30, 2015


Megillah Gorilla posted:

The only interesting thing ever done with a Death Star laser was the battering ram thing from Last Jedi.


I've brought this up before, but it's literally a giant lightsaber.



I think I'd almost bet money that at some point it was going to be pulled by a team of AT-ATs, but that they came up with the many-legged box walkers instead because it was just too silly that way.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Megillah Gorilla posted:

The only interesting thing ever done with a Death Star laser was the battering ram thing from Last Jedi.




Though it does extremely beg the question of why the gently caress did they just have something like this laying around.

I never got what that was supposed to mean that it's "death star tech", it's just a very large laser, but not as large as the laser the size of a moon.

Does that mean that the Death Star was somehow technologically unique aside from being very large? Is the little death star gun going to do something different from a very large laser? Was the very large gun on the ship in the beginning of the movie also "death star tech"?

It confers a weird about of extra-specialness upon the old movies while also distracting from what was happening in the moment.

Emrikol
Sep 30, 2015


SlothfulCobra posted:

I never got what that was supposed to mean that it's "death star tech", it's just a very large laser, but not as large as the laser the size of a moon.

Does that mean that the Death Star was somehow technologically unique aside from being very large? Is the little death star gun going to do something different from a very large laser? Was the very large gun on the ship in the beginning of the movie also "death star tech"?

It confers a weird about of extra-specialness upon the old movies while also distracting from what was happening in the moment.

Miniaturized Death Star tech. It's a downscaled Death Star cannon.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


What does the empire have against wheels and tank treads?

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



The Death Star has always been unique beyond just being big. Apparently in the EU the Death Star shot concentrated hyperspace at things, which tore them apart at an atomic level. In the new canon, Rogue One established that the laser is essentially a giant lightsaber blade, since it's powered by the same sort of crystals.

The design of the one in The Last Jedi is really on the nose about the lightsaber connection, and the First Order using it against the Resistance is basically the same thing as the scene at the start of The Phantom Menace where Qui-Gon's trying to cut through the door.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Emrikol posted:

Miniaturized Death Star tech. It's a downscaled Death Star cannon.

A very small giant laser?

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

What does the empire have against wheels and tank treads?

Aside from just being a cool sci-fi thing, I think the implication is that there isn't much even terrain because nobody needs to build roads everywhere because most light transport hovers, so if you need something heavier, normal wheels won't work well.

Also the time they did do treads didn't work out.

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



SlothfulCobra posted:

I never got what that was supposed to mean that it's "death star tech", it's just a very large laser, but not as large as the laser the size of a moon.

Does that mean that the Death Star was somehow technologically unique aside from being very large? Is the little death star gun going to do something different from a very large laser? Was the very large gun on the ship in the beginning of the movie also "death star tech"?

It confers a weird about of extra-specialness upon the old movies while also distracting from what was happening in the moment.

Enh, I think it's probably weirder if the death star is just a scaled up version of the gun on an X-wing. Like a real-world nuke isn't just a very big stick of dynamite. It doesn't need to be explained though and it doesn't really matter besides "you need a bunch of secret science to make a death star instead of just a bunch of resources". Little death star gun is still stupid though

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


Foxfire_ posted:

Enh, I think it's probably weirder if the death star is just a scaled up version of the gun on an X-wing. Like a real-world nuke isn't just a very big stick of dynamite. It doesn't need to be explained though and it doesn't really matter besides "you need a bunch of secret science to make a death star instead of just a bunch of resources". Little death star gun is still stupid though

The US military had tactical nukes though, so why couldn't a small version of the Death Star tech be created?

Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

Emrikol posted:

I've brought this up before, but it's literally a giant lightsaber.



I think I'd almost bet money that at some point it was going to be pulled by a team of AT-ATs, but that they came up with the many-legged box walkers instead because it was just too silly that way.

I think somebody had seen this: (skip to about 3:40)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYGJ9jrbpvg

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Has anyone said "Google Stadia" yet because I think that would be really funny

Now let's talk about this thing:


The Star League wanted to build a supercarrier for space, because they wanted to make sure they had the edge in everything. So they told someone to build a big box full of space fighters and call it the Enterprise.

The Star League's military, the SLDF, is the direct descendant of the United States military, and so it ended up costing a million bajillion dollars spread across twelve different companies, and it had to be towed out of drydock. That big square thing on the bottom was going to launch 50-some fighters every three seconds because hey, there's no way making something five times bigger would ever go wrong. It's my favorite piece of lovely garbage tech.

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!


Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

What does the empire have against wheels and tank treads?

It's part of the general series of rules made to give star wars a unique and immediately recognizable aesthetic that distinctly made it not look like the real world. As you noticed one of the biggest was that nothing travelled on wheels, though In RotS they did sneak in the "Clone Turbo Tank" as a nod to a rejected AT-AT design and EU mainstay. Another is that there's no books or paper. And of course everyone knows about the "Used Future" thing.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

427 TOTALLY LEGITIMATE, DEFENSIBLE NATIONAL TITLES AND COUNTING


The great (x1000) grandfather of the Death Star beam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4UsZqy9f1w

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



galagazombie posted:

Another is that there's no books or paper.

It was a long time ago, literacy wasn't widespread yet.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


Robot Style posted:


The design of the one in The Last Jedi is really on the nose about the lightsaber connection

Hell, the Fallen Order video game quietly reveals that Starkiller Base was built into/out of Ilum, the planet Jedi get their lightsaber crystals from

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



But in that movie it shot missiles instead of a laser.

Emrikol
Sep 30, 2015


Starkiller Base is an entire planet converted into a giant cannon that consumes stars in order to blow up planets. It's supposed to be impressive, but I think it might actually be the least efficient superweapon ever imagined.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




If the Empire had just listened to Grand Admiral Thrawn and put all the money for the Death Star into TIE Defenders, Luke would be dead and all the aliens would still be slaves, so it's probably a good thing superweapons are very stupid.

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell


Defiance Industries posted:

If the Empire had just listened to Grand Admiral Thrawn and put all the money for the Death Star into TIE Defenders, Luke would be dead and all the aliens would still be slaves, so it's probably a good thing superweapons are very stupid.

MORE
LANCER
FRIGATES

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


Defiance Industries posted:

If the Empire had just listened to Grand Admiral Thrawn and put all the money for the Death Star into TIE Defenders, Luke would be dead and all the aliens would still be slaves, so it's probably a good thing superweapons are very stupid.

I can imagine the emperor as a Trump like figure.

People we're going to build the laser. It's going to be the most tremendous laser anyone has ever seen. We're going to stop the rebel caravan in it's tracks.

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010





Defiance Industries posted:

Has anyone said "Google Stadia" yet because I think that would be really funny

Now let's talk about this thing:


The Star League wanted to build a supercarrier for space, because they wanted to make sure they had the edge in everything. So they told someone to build a big box full of space fighters and call it the Enterprise.

The Star League's military, the SLDF, is the direct descendant of the United States military, and so it ended up costing a million bajillion dollars spread across twelve different companies, and it had to be towed out of drydock. That big square thing on the bottom was going to launch 50-some fighters every three seconds because hey, there's no way making something five times bigger would ever go wrong. It's my favorite piece of lovely garbage tech.

Battletech is literally an entire galaxy of awful garbage tech.
For example probably most of the mechs are hilariously ineffective boondoggle hangar queens that make the Ratte tank look economical and reasonable. The only reason I think they are even used is that they are good for bartering with and it's a decent way of removing noble failsons from the line of succession.

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010





Like if you have played the battletech game you fundamentally get that there is little reason for the inner sphere to splurge on most of the awful, awful designs available when things like srm carriers and demolisher tanks are available for literally less than half the cost.
Jenner's, Catapults and war hammers for Lyfe though

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!


Ironically it's the trippy psychedelic mecha that feel the most realistic. You'll never be able to come up with a physics based reason for your weapon to be human shaped. So instead the justification for why we have a robot instead of a tank is "By embodying the platonic human form the robot is powered by the collective human spirit". The answer to why we gave our robot a giant sword instead of a gun is "The ancient blade of Lusitania channels the power of the Arkenstone left behind by the Martian Ancients to cut a path to a brighter future." It may be nonsense but it makes inartistically more sense all the same.

blatman
May 9, 2009

14 inc dont mez




galagazombie posted:

Ironically it's the trippy psychedelic mecha that feel the most realistic. You'll never be able to come up with a physics based reason for your weapon to be human shaped. So instead the justification for why we have a robot instead of a tank is "By embodying the platonic human form the robot is powered by the collective human spirit". The answer to why we gave our robot a giant sword instead of a gun is "The ancient blade of Lusitania channels the power of the Arkenstone left behind by the Martian Ancients to cut a path to a brighter future." It may be nonsense but it makes inartistically more sense all the same.

this is why gurren lagann is the pinnacle of human creativity

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Dream Super Combo


galagazombie posted:

Ironically it's the trippy psychedelic mecha that feel the most realistic. You'll never be able to come up with a physics based reason for your weapon to be human shaped. So instead the justification for why we have a robot instead of a tank is "By embodying the platonic human form the robot is powered by the collective human spirit". The answer to why we gave our robot a giant sword instead of a gun is "The ancient blade of Lusitania channels the power of the Arkenstone left behind by the Martian Ancients to cut a path to a brighter future." It may be nonsense but it makes inartistically more sense all the same.

https://twitter.com/Random_Factor/status/1231271828208967681

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010






lmao

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Lawman 0 posted:

Battletech is literally an entire galaxy of awful garbage tech.
For example probably most of the mechs are hilariously ineffective boondoggle hangar queens that make the Ratte tank look economical and reasonable. The only reason I think they are even used is that they are good for bartering with and it's a decent way of removing noble failsons from the line of succession.

The degree to which a mech will work if it's not maintained is legit impressive, actually. You can put a mech under a tarp for 300 years and the thing will start right up and work just like new.

It's basically that and being environmentally sealed.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

galagazombie posted:

Ironically it's the trippy psychedelic mecha that feel the most realistic. You'll never be able to come up with a physics based reason for your weapon to be human shaped. So instead the justification for why we have a robot instead of a tank is "By embodying the platonic human form the robot is powered by the collective human spirit". The answer to why we gave our robot a giant sword instead of a gun is "The ancient blade of Lusitania channels the power of the Arkenstone left behind by the Martian Ancients to cut a path to a brighter future." It may be nonsense but it makes inartistically more sense all the same.

The Evangelion explanation for 'why build a giant robot shaped like a giant human' is the best one it's literally a giant human...oid in restraints. plus your dead mom's soul probably prefers a human shaped body

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Defiance Industries posted:

The degree to which a mech will work if it's not maintained is legit impressive, actually. You can put a mech under a tarp for 300 years and the thing will start right up and work just like new.

It's basically that and being environmentally sealed.

IIRC, the deal with Battletech is that everything works more or less like normal real world tech, EXCEPT for mechs, which are bullshit space magic based on forgotten principles and magical space metal, and since they actually have a worse problem with lost technology than 40k's Imperium, they have no idea how to apply any of that stuff to more practical designs.

Might be funny if all the real weapons got wiped out in the big galactic war and battlemechs are the only thing left because they were made for spectator sports, the equivalent of running out of cars so all you have left is monster trucks

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010





Ghost Leviathan posted:

IIRC, the deal with Battletech is that everything works more or less like normal real world tech, EXCEPT for mechs, which are bullshit space magic based on forgotten principles and magical space metal, and since they actually have a worse problem with lost technology than 40k's Imperium, they have no idea how to apply any of that stuff to more practical designs.

Might be funny if all the real weapons got wiped out in the big galactic war and battlemechs are the only thing left because they were made for spectator sports, the equivalent of running out of cars so all you have left is monster trucks

Right and when they actually did get close to getting back up to the old tech level they decided to introduce a series of escalating disasters to keep it back down. :v:

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Lawman 0 posted:

Right and when they actually did get close to getting back up to the old tech level they decided to introduce a series of escalating disasters to keep it back down. :v:

When the dudes who decided to bust out all the lost tech happened to be religious fanatics who went and got it all blown up, I figured

Not really a bad idea for an ongoing setting really, means you can have more cool poo poo laying about if you want to use it but it's not changing the game

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




General Battuta posted:

The Evangelion explanation for 'why build a giant robot shaped like a giant human' is the best one it's literally a giant human...oid in restraints. plus your dead mom's soul probably prefers a human shaped body

Eva is definitely the best one about it, that and TTGL which has fairly similar logic.

Lancer actively calls attention to this and has a paragraph on "So there was a war where walking mechs proved effective, but really Union liked the aesthetic and is outrageously wealthy." This paragraph rules

Lancer, pg 363 posted:


Not only did mechanized chassis represent a tactical
breakthrough, but their quasi-humanoid shape was
an undeniable psychological asset. This led to the
development of weaponry that was tactically imprac‐
tical (to begin with), but a boon to morale: swords,
axes, lances, and so on.

On top of this the Horus mechs look like whatever because gently caress you and good luck asking them any questions.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm7Lwc1XsAElCJj?format=jpg&name=large

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



Ghost Leviathan posted:

IIRC, the deal with Battletech is that everything works more or less like normal real world tech, EXCEPT for mechs, which are bullshit space magic based on forgotten principles and magical space metal, and since they actually have a worse problem with lost technology than 40k's Imperium, they have no idea how to apply any of that stuff to more practical designs.

Might be funny if all the real weapons got wiped out in the big galactic war and battlemechs are the only thing left because they were made for spectator sports, the equivalent of running out of cars so all you have left is monster trucks

Fluff-wise, they're supposed to be using the same kind of armor, engines, and guns. Rules-wise, mostly everything not mech-shaped is just worse with no explanation to keep the game focused around mechs. There's stuff like putting an identically rated engine into vehicle makes it weigh more, all vehicles are easy to mobility kill regardless of armor, all vehicles have to be heat-neutral at all times, hovercraft aren't allowed to have lightweight engines, etc...

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

427 TOTALLY LEGITIMATE, DEFENSIBLE NATIONAL TITLES AND COUNTING


One of the problems with Battletech's static authorship (largely the same people for 40 years) is that nobody's willing to deconstruct the obvious holes in the setting.

Imagine one protagonist pointing out that feudal royalty loves Mechs because they're a way to fight that's more "pure" than that of their shitkicker serfs. This has many spillover effects, to the largely duel-based warfare all Mechwarriors engage in, to overspending on procurement of Mechs by every nation around.

Not to mention the ridiculous logistical requirements that Mech units would have. A regiment of 108 Mechs would have as high as 30-40 unique designs, each of which has virtually no components in common, each of which has incredibly uniquely shaped and designed limbs and exterior armor plates. Imagine the first merc commander that says "Phoenix Hawks, Marauders, Battlemasters, and that's it". Stock parts for only 3 kinds of Mechs.

Also the most expensive part of militaries would still be personnel. Try conquering and holding a hostile planet with 108 Mechs and a few hundred tanks. You'd need high six to low seven figures in people of infantry and support personnel.

Imagine a Battletech novel treating Mechs as they are- rare, expensive figureheads piloted by shithead nobles that need an ocean of support to achieve any real strategic military objective.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

No I like it the way it is :mad:

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!



There's an anime called Knight's & Magic and the final conflict is basically the main character trying to prevent the rest of the world from realizing how much more practical (air)battleships would be compared to giant robots because he's a huge mecha nerd.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Lawman 0 posted:

Right and when they actually did get close to getting back up to the old tech level they decided to introduce a series of escalating disasters to keep it back down. :v:

Nah, wars started working like they do in the real world where people invent a bunch of new poo poo. Star League technology is pretty passe now.


GD_American posted:

One of the problems with Battletech's static authorship (largely the same people for 40 years) is that nobody's willing to deconstruct the obvious holes in the setting.

Imagine one protagonist pointing out that feudal royalty loves Mechs because they're a way to fight that's more "pure" than that of their shitkicker serfs. This has many spillover effects, to the largely duel-based warfare all Mechwarriors engage in, to overspending on procurement of Mechs by every nation around.

Not to mention the ridiculous logistical requirements that Mech units would have. A regiment of 108 Mechs would have as high as 30-40 unique designs, each of which has virtually no components in common, each of which has incredibly uniquely shaped and designed limbs and exterior armor plates. Imagine the first merc commander that says "Phoenix Hawks, Marauders, Battlemasters, and that's it". Stock parts for only 3 kinds of Mechs.

Also the most expensive part of militaries would still be personnel. Try conquering and holding a hostile planet with 108 Mechs and a few hundred tanks. You'd need high six to low seven figures in people of infantry and support personnel.

Imagine a Battletech novel treating Mechs as they are- rare, expensive figureheads piloted by shithead nobles that need an ocean of support to achieve any real strategic military objective.

The Clan invasion didn't just introduce a bunch of broken weapons, it broke the universe too. For the previous couple centuries, battles over worlds were basically proxies for who the local government paid taxes to. And the planets that were actually loyal to a particular House were all fortress worlds that never changed hands. Battles meant you came in, ran off the other guy's regulars, the local government runs up a different flag, nothing changes for regular people. When the Clans came in, it changed that. They were coming in and expecting everyone to conform to their dumb system, and now we had to ask why anyone put up with having their local government tossed out and all their police replaced with guys who washed out of the military and take those frustrations out by executing people in the middle of the street (American police).


Foxfire_ posted:

Fluff-wise, they're supposed to be using the same kind of armor, engines, and guns. Rules-wise, mostly everything not mech-shaped is just worse with no explanation to keep the game focused around mechs. There's stuff like putting an identically rated engine into vehicle makes it weigh more, all vehicles are easy to mobility kill regardless of armor, all vehicles have to be heat-neutral at all times, hovercraft aren't allowed to have lightweight engines, etc...

Stuff like helis and hovers get a really loving big bonus to their engine output for free, and XL engines are not only legal for vehicles, they're much better in vees than they are in mechs. The mobility kill thing, yeah. And the heat thing, yes, except that only energy weapons generate heat for vehicles so you should really be boating those.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply